EPT[Patch 1.0.0.124: Talon] General Discussion - Page 148
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2011 10:12 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: He stomps low level normal games so he needs to be nerfed. Although it's a wonder why morde hasn't been nerfed into unusable...he's been stomping idiots for a year now... He's also been almost a permanent jungle pick in high Elo games as well--the only junglers that come close are Nocturne and GP, and both of those have also been on the receiving end of nerfs. He seems to be walking the fine line of "really damn strong and first-pickable, but not quite OP enough to be ban-worthy. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
To those of you who think LS need a nerf, what changes would you make to his kit? ;o | ||
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StuffedTurkey
United States859 Posts
On September 07 2011 11:23 NeoIllusions wrote: I've seen plenty of bad Lee Sins. To those of you who think LS need a nerf, what changes would you make to his kit? ;o Well first they need to fix his passive. It's bugged so he can get blinded by teemo dart! wtf! obviously a problem. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2011 11:23 NeoIllusions wrote: To those of you who think LS need a nerf, what changes would you make to his kit? ;o Possibly lower the level 1 slow % on his E? 30% AS+MS slow is really brutal for rank 1, especially since Nunu's E is only single-target and got nerfed to 20% at rank 1. I don't think he needs huge nerfs--it's just that once Orianna gets nerfed out of permaban status, Lee Sin seems to be the champ most likely to move up into that ban slot. As it stands it would be nice to have him tweaked slightly before the community as a whole goes apeshit about it (because then it's more likely for Riot to overreact). | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On September 07 2011 11:23 NeoIllusions wrote: I've seen plenty of bad Lee Sins. To those of you who think LS need a nerf, what changes would you make to his kit? ;o There's a fundamental problem with the way Q and W work in concert. He's able to freely go from end to end in any lane, which is a design problem. You can tweak numbers all you'd like, but his ranges need to be nerfed. You could also try things like shared cooldowns on the two like Sona has, but I doubt you can make it meaningful without making it too obtrusive. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On September 07 2011 11:24 StuffedTurkey wrote: Well first they need to fix his passive. It's bugged so he can get blinded by teemo dart! wtf! obviously a problem. huehuehue Turkey man On September 07 2011 11:26 TheYango wrote: Possibly lower the level 1 slow % on his E? 30% AS+MS slow is really brutal for rank 1, especially since Nunu's E is only single-target and got nerfed to 20% at rank 1. I don't think he needs huge nerfs--it's just that once Orianna gets nerfed out of permaban status, Lee Sin seems to be the champ most likely to move up into that ban slot. As it stands it would be nice to have him tweaked slightly before the community as a whole goes apeshit about it (because then it's more likely for Riot to overreact). Good reasoning with the Nunu comparison but there are other factors to look into. LS E, while AOE, has a much smaller range than Ice Blast. CD is also a major issue. Nunu's Ice Blast CD is crazy short. While I've never heard of anyone complain about LS's E being too strong/too much utility, "toning" it down from 30% to 25% wouldn't be bad. On September 07 2011 11:29 Craton wrote: There's a fundamental problem with the way Q and W work in concert. He's able to freely go from end to end in any lane, which is a design problem. You can tweak numbers all you'd like, but his ranges need to be nerfed. You could also try things like shared cooldowns on the two like Sona has, but I doubt you can make it meaningful without making it too obtrusive. Ok, this is definitely the biggest complaint I hear about LS. His mobility is superb (king?) for a jungler. But I never considered this imbal or OP though. Compare it to a projectile. vs a Morg, Annie can Q safely with range. LS would have to Q, Dash in, and make sure to have a creep/ally near by to W back. Morg could bind LS as he dashes in. imo LS is fine. If there is an aspect of LS that I would nerf, it would be the % dmg of Resonating Strike. Shit scales insanely well. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On September 07 2011 11:50 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: make it so he can't W to wards. I hate when you juke away from a lee sin and he just drops a ward and is right beside you again. They tried to remove it. People got pissed. They need to go back and decide once and for all how that interaction between point and click blinks and allies/wards should work. Cuz right now having them inconsistent is really annoying. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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StuffedTurkey
United States859 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:00 Two_DoWn wrote: Ya I made the case before that they needed to let akali do it as well for consistency's sake, but then people named a bunch of champs that cant do it as well (cant remember of the top of my head) that ALSO cant do it. Like Maoki i think was one. I don't mind them having jump abilities that can go to only enemies and not allies(To enemies should mean enemies+enemywards and to allies should mean allies+allywards). Tbh i think Akali would have broken escape if she could use ult on allies/alliedwards. Especially since she has charges...carry 3 wards..jump over wall to one..jump over next wall..jump over next wall..only one who can chase that is Kassadin if he has a ton of extra mana. Another champion who can target enemies to move but not allies..Alistar. Don't you think using punt on an ally would be really messed up? | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:00 Two_DoWn wrote: Ya I made the case before that they needed to let akali do it as well for consistency's sake, but then people named a bunch of champs that cant do it as well (cant remember of the top of my head) that ALSO cant do it. Like Maoki i think was one. Quoting myself: What about Irelia, Maokai, Master Yi, Nocturne, Pantheon, Wukong, or Xin Zhao? Arguably Alistar and Poppy but it's questionable whether you consider their dash moves "that type of ability" given that their dashes also move the target, so the interaction with allies would be weird. Most targeted dashes DON'T allow ally/ward jumping. Kat and Jax are special cases. In fairness, I can see where to draw the line for consistency: Dashes that ONLY do single-target damage can jump to wards/allies. Kat and Jax jump to allies cuz their dashes have no additional utility. Maokai, Yi, Nocturne, Pantheon, Wukong, Xin, Poppy, and Alistar all have extra utility on their dash skills. Irelia and Akali are edge-cases that can fall either way (Irelia's has the CD-reset-on-lasthit mechanic which isn't *directly* extra utility, and Akali has the charge mechanic) based on balance. The thing is, Lee Sin isn't even relevant to this discussion. Safeguard is already an ally-only skill. It's COMPLETELY UNLIKE the other jump skills in question (which are enemy-targeted skills, for which the question is whether they should be allowed to be ally-targeting). As such, it's not hugely necessary for it to be 100% consistent with them. | ||
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
I might be biased because I love playing him but I don't go "omfg they got lee sin we're doomed" if the other team gets him. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:07 StuffedTurkey wrote: I don't mind them having jump abilities that can go to only enemies and not allies(To enemies should mean enemies+enemywards and to allies should mean allies+allywards). Tbh i think Akali would have broken escape if she could use ult on allies/alliedwards. Especially since she has charges...carry 3 wards..jump over wall to one..jump over next wall..jump over next wall..only one who can chase that is Kassadin if he has a ton of extra mana. Another champion who can target enemies to move but not allies..Alistar. Don't you think using punt on an ally would be really messed up? I actually would love if Ali could punt team mates, and Urgot could ult team mates, blitzcrank could pull team mates.. (Obviously thinking of Pudge and Vengeful here). Maybe they don't need these "buffs", but would add quite a lot to each. I also feel like Lee Sin is strong, but their are heroes that are a lot more scary when picked up by other team, would never ban him, therefore don't feel like he needs nerfs, maybe slight tweaking too his scaling, but i like him as is, I don't play him, or own him, if that means anything. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:25 Lanzoma wrote: I don't think LS is op or too strong. It's really easy to fuck up and die, stuns / roots / burst are super scary because you're squishy without your jumps. I might be biased because I love playing him but I don't go "omfg they got lee sin we're doomed" if the other team gets him. as far as that goes at sub 1400 I heard "omfg they got x we lose" pretty much every game | ||
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whatsupchan
United States61 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:25 Lanzoma wrote: I don't think LS is op or too strong. It's really easy to fuck up and die, stuns / roots / burst are super scary because you're squishy without your jumps. I might be biased because I love playing him but I don't go "omfg they got lee sin we're doomed" if the other team gets him. I think the main thing is that people need to figure out where they want the power curve for this game to be. For a while now, none of the "OP champs" have been singularly way out of line. We've either had a bunch at a really strong power level, or a pretty smooth spread down the power curve. At some point we need to stop and say "this is where we want everyone to be". I thought Riot had it figured out when we had a whole fkton of champs at a really strong power level. Jarvan, Vayne, Vladimir, Rumble, Orianna, Annie, Ashe, Nunu,... People were like "8 bans wouldn't be enough for all the OP champions I want to get rid of"--well what the hell is wrong with just playing the game at that power level? You're on a Starcraft forum, we should all understand how the "everything is OP" approach makes for a fun and competitive game. But then of course, everyone QQed and Riot just started chain-nerfing all those champions. Right now we're just on the tail end of these nerfs. Orianna's just the last in this big chain of nerfed champs, and the only reason we're getting to "Lee Sin is OP" is because of the long list of champs ahead of him that got nerfed. | ||
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