EPT[Patch 1.0.0.124: Talon] General Discussion - Page 149
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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crate
United States2474 Posts
I hate playing as Lee Sin because I'm apparently the worst Lee Sin in the world. I can't really judge how good he is because I don't really play enough and I'm not that good. | ||
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:26 UniversalSnip wrote: Too much damage even if he doesn't build damage. Too much rape on his E. Too much healing on his W. I agree. Q base damage as well as the passive is all you need until well into mid game. Between the aspd slow on E and the shields from W, Lee Sin wins against almost anybody, especially if he tanks up. Add to this some pretty sick utility from R, and I think it's safe to say we've got a very strong hero here. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:39 beef42 wrote: I agree. Q base damage as well as the passive is all you need until well into mid game. Between the aspd slow on E and the shields from W, Lee Sin wins against almost anybody, especially if he tanks up. Add to this some pretty sick utility from R, and I think it's safe to say we've got a very strong hero here. There's always going to be "very strong heroes" at the top end of the power curve. The thing is, at what point do we say "lets stop nerfing shit cuz this is the level where these guys are powerful but fun". I don't think anyone who plays Lee Sin will disagree with me when I say that he is damn fun to play. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
Damage in second part of q needs to go down. Cooldown on w up. Ms slow on e down a lot, as slow can stay. R projectile speed increased to compensate slightly ALLIED shield (not just SELF shield) on an energy system with a low cooldown is just insane in teamfights, not to mention the mobility attached. Strongest ganker pre-6 in the game, AND he can 1v1 in the enemy jungle and come ahead, AND if you send help he just wardhops away? Fking broken POS I mean I only want slight nerfs on everything but combined they should bring him down to a good power level | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On September 07 2011 11:53 Two_DoWn wrote: They tried to remove it. People got pissed. They need to go back and decide once and for all how that interaction between point and click blinks and allies/wards should work. Cuz right now having them inconsistent is really annoying. People can get pissed all they want. A champion shouldn't have unlimited mobility, absurd damage without building damage, and infinite sustain. Most of the stupid mobility champions (Leblanc) scale extremely poorly. | ||
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
Also they should remove/reduce the aspd debuff, as it is a massive part of LS' tankiness, and can be quite devastating in team fights depending on their lineup. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:47 gtrsrs wrote: Nah, lee sin is batshit insane strong. Like, firstban firstpick material. And the only reason he's "firstban firstpick" material is because everything ahead of him's been pushed off the top. Like seriously guys? There's obviously been some pretty stupid broken stuff that was way off the hook in the past, but don't you think that a lot of the recently nerfed stuff would all play at a reasonable power level together? This has got to stop somewhere. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
Champs I'd consider for small changes cause of their strong skillset: -Morgana. The combination of ungankable (sup spellshield) and afkfarm without risk (W) is simply a very weird combination. Personally however I think that her spellshield is one of those incredibly hard to balance spells. Real trouble there. -Lee Sin. While he certainly has a very strong skillcap (that's the reason he wasn't in the spotlight so much. You actually need some brains to play him), once you play him to his full potential the mobility is just too much. I would play around with his Q range and/or projectile speed (e.g. make it shorter but faster) and maybe small adjustments to his W range. Not both at the same time though. -Zilean. While rarely played he has similar issues to Morgana. The combination of Q range, doublenuke due to W and a movespeed buff/debuff is simply too insane in lane. There are quite some lanes that are literally unwinnable if he's in play. I'd increase his scaling on Q but nerf his basedamage slightly. -Orianna. Personally, I keep having the feeling that she is overhyped a lot. Yes, she's incredibly strong, but her laning isn't as unbeatable as people make it out to be. People are simply scared of her and that's exactly what she needs to win her lanes convincingly. Her "omg op" comes from the kit itself (movespeed buff/debuff decides who engages when and lets you decide who chases when + the ability to freely facecheck). Imho, adjust the movespeed buff/debuff numbers (not the damage!) and work from there. A very small nerf on her ballrange would help, too. If you want to adjust her ult a slight decrease in the AoE range would be the correct approach imho. 350-375 sounds about right. Again, nerfing her actual damage would be the wrong idea. Champs that imho need a small buff to become viable: -Nunu. While his E nerf was really neccessary, the Q nerf killed him as a champion. He had this amazingly niche role of HAVING to counterjungle and HAVING to gank & get mapcontrol really, really quickly and create an advantage for his team because of his atrocious lategame. Currently he's simply not viable except for some very rare cases. Get Q to his old stats and he'll be fine again. Besides that it's currently just usual suspects like Eve, Shaco, Shen, Sivir - maybe Lux and Mundo, too. Honestly, I'm pretty damn happy with the way this game is turning out atm. Jarman and Renek start to become viable top again, which means we're kinda at the end of a nerfcycle with everyone being pretty close in powerlevel. Cycle successfull imho. Now finish the same with AP mid and I'm completely satisfied. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:57 TheYango wrote: And the only reason he's "firstban firstpick" material is because everything ahead of him's been pushed off the top. Like seriously guys? There's obviously been some pretty stupid broken stuff that was way off the hook in the past, but don't you think that a lot of the recently nerfed stuff would all play at a reasonable power level together? This has got to stop somewhere. While this is true, I believe Lee Sin is above that curve. He's stronger than pre-nerf udyr so he has to be axed. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2011 13:11 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: While this is true, I believe Lee Sin is above that curve. He's stronger than pre-nerf udyr so he has to be axed. Pre-nerf being which Udyr nerf? lol | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
A: Both had infinite sustain with W B: Both do insane amounts of damage C: Both have shields that allow them to soak a lot of damage +: Lee Sin is #1 mobility in game(?). At least you could kite udyr. The only thing better about udyr is that he can stun and has an alternate AoE phoenix niche role if you want to go that route. Of course, Lee Sin has some nasty crowd control with his E as well so pick your poison. On September 07 2011 13:18 BlackPaladin wrote: The only real "nerf" to udyr that I can think of was when they removed locket... :s Everybody got nerfed when they removed Locket. It was fun playing games where everybody in the game made one though. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:57 TheYango wrote: And the only reason he's "firstban firstpick" material is because everything ahead of him's been pushed off the top. Like seriously guys? There's obviously been some pretty stupid broken stuff that was way off the hook in the past, but don't you think that a lot of the recently nerfed stuff would all play at a reasonable power level together? This has got to stop somewhere. Yep. What happens is things get over-nerfed and then eventually "remade" (Pantheon, Eve, Twitch, Kayle, Ryze, etc) only to be either continually nerfed or just left in the dust. To think Mord is a top ban nowadays... | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It's fun when everything is bullshit strong. Starcraft would be a much worse game if stuff like Mines, Dark Swarm, or DTs got nerfed just cuz someone thought they were "OP". | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On September 07 2011 12:57 TheYango wrote: And the only reason he's "firstban firstpick" material is because everything ahead of him's been pushed off the top. Like seriously guys? There's obviously been some pretty stupid broken stuff that was way off the hook in the past, but don't you think that a lot of the recently nerfed stuff would all play at a reasonable power level together? This has got to stop somewhere. Here's the thing - orianna and lee take a little finesse to play. They aren't AP sion 4 months ago hurr durr 6.0 AP ratio on a point and click stun. As such they have stronger kits because they are balanced around being harder to play. The problem has arisen that people are perfecting these champs. So now that their potentials are being reached we're seeing how stupid strong they are It has nothing to do with how strong other champs are and everything to do with their design compensations | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Although I dont think he is op at all. I just think that most of the jungle options we have now are complete shit thanks to Riot screwing with jungle and tanky dps too much. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
1) If you die with your W passive up (your next auto does more damage and applies a mark of the storm), when you come back to life, every attack will make the special W passive noise until you get your passive up again. 2) If you hit W as the last available target dies, your W won't do anything but it takes energy/goes on cooldown anyways. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On September 07 2011 13:30 TheYango wrote: Honestly, I don't see why we'd have a problem if every bruiser were like pre-nerf Jarvan level, every AD carry were pre-nerf Ashe/Vayne/Corki, every AP carry were pre-nerf Vlad/Zilean/TF, etc. It's fun when everything is bullshit strong. Starcraft would be a much worse game if stuff like Mines, Dark Swarm, or DTs got nerfed just cuz someone thought they were "OP". It will feel exactly the same if it's balanced at the current level, just a little bit more slow-paced probably. =P | ||
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