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Why does every thread that mentions LoL NEED to turn into a LoL vs HoN vs Dota2 thread? Seriously, cut it out. Page 7, 00:29 KST. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:40 Judicator wrote: I have to say it's kind of hilarious that anyone thinks that the 5 million prize pool will attract more players in the face of their shitty business model. The business model seems to be the future for this genre... So... Yeah. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Is Valve following Riot's shitty business model then? | ||
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:32 Redox wrote: The point was that both are the same game. Its not like a question of starcraft vs dota or something. Its dota vs dota. And people havent even played dota2, so its impossible to have informed opinions about which dota is better. On teamliquid, and you're actually not even saying "blahblah two is the same as blahblahblah" - which gets torn to SHREDS here *cough cough bw sc2*, but two compeltely different games, with different aesthetics, playstyles, skill ceilings, companies, damage and leveling systems... I could go on. And you actually say "who cares, it's the same game" It's likecomparing netball and basketball, seeing it's a team game where people use a ball and their hands and thinking "welp, it's the same game, pick one guys, it doesn't matter which" Anyway. Back o/t - this seems to me to be a blatant publicity stunt, but I'm glad either way, the more money gets thrown at e-sports the better, with enough money it'll get taken more seriously, and have a better backend. Even in the SC world the number teams and players who have had trouble with sponsors etc. is painful, with serious money around, maybe there will actually be serious people behind it. | ||
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ondema
United Kingdom21 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:37 Logo wrote: Actually I find it incredibly sickening. If they have $5mil laying around then it's because they've milked so much money from their customers through runes, new heroes, ip/xp boosts, and other grinding elements that they have a ton of disposable income. Lol is actually one of the most expensive games on the market, but people are just so easily fooled by F2P or willing to grind that they overlook the costs. Personally no matter how big it gets I won't watch or support LoL competition because I really really don't like their style of F2P. HoN's I don't like either, but I find it more acceptable given that a free account playing a free hero is the same as a legacy account playing the same hero right from the start. Is it not a good thing that they are willing to give 5 million of the money that they have "milked" from the players back to them through having a robust season? The concept of F2P didn't start with LoL and it won't end with it. Judging a game based on its model is a pretty flawed view. The real issue is LoL's priorities lie with the casual players as they've openly stated over and over. No replays, pause and spectator mode make the game a joke competitively and if they don't add them soon (i.e. significantly before the release of DotA2) LoL will be completely forgotten as a competitive esport. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:43 Mordiford wrote: The business model seems to be the future for this genre... So... Yeah. Uh future for HoN and LoL which are 2nd tier (don't even bothering trying to argue this, they both had chances to take over as THE title for the genre but haven't) games maybe. Let me ask you something, how dynamic is LoL metagame at highly organized and competitive levels? On August 16 2011 00:46 NeoIllusions wrote: Isn't DotA2 expected to be f2p as well...? Is Valve following Riot's shitty business model then? ? Source? | ||
520
United States2822 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:37 Logo wrote: Actually I find it incredibly sickening. If they have $5mil laying around then it's because they've milked so much money from their customers through runes, new heroes, ip/xp boosts, and other grinding elements that they have a ton of disposable income. Lol is actually one of the most expensive games on the market, but people are just so easily fooled by F2P or willing to grind that they overlook the costs. Personally no matter how big it gets I won't watch or support LoL competition because I really really don't like their style of F2P. HoN's I don't like either, but I find it more acceptable given that a free account playing a free hero is the same as a legacy account playing the same hero right from the start. A free account playing a hero is the exact same as a legacy account playing a hero in LoL, too. You can pay money to advance through the ranks faster, but the fact of the matter is that a given champion at any given level will have access to the same number of runes and masteries as any other player with the same champion and level. | ||
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Marou
Germany1371 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:46 NeoIllusions wrote: Isn't DotA2 expected to be f2p as well...? Is Valve following Riot's shitty business model then? Not confirmed any model yet for sales. So my question is, is it actually confirmed that "the majority" meaning over 2.5 million will be given in the finals? And how would THAT prize distribution go, I'm interested to hear. | ||
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ExoFun
Netherlands2041 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:25 InfC.AnatoLiy wrote: ... You know Valve developed Steam right? http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2011/02/04/steam_revenue_nearly_hits_1_billion Almost hit 1 bil off 2010 alone. Riot is nothing more than a moth flying around in the bright light that materializes from Valve's aura. Riot is a joke in the eSports community. Their business side of things they get the job done. Luckily for them that they struct gold as they were the first F2P MOBA game (I think) with micro transactions in a period where MOBA games were dying. Anyway, my post in response to Riot announcing the S2 prize pool: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1858/riotjoke.jpg) wow great post.... "laughed by other players" Who cares about that... if people enjoying the game and there is a competitive scene isnt that just great by a gamecompany?! Dont be so pessimistic about it... its just a great welcome that a company is supporting. | ||
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MegaManEXE
United States845 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:21 Ryhn wrote: Graphics are merely the medium through which game developers present aesthetics. I highly doubt that the guys in this thread are whining because they hate games without uber tech behind them. That would mean they automatically hate SNES games, Genesis games, Minecraft, Starcraft, Diablo II, and so on. What people care about is that their games look visually pleasing, above all else. These people who hate League's visuals are likely not even /thinking/ about poly counts, or theorizing over the resolution of the textures. They dislike the cartoony, exaggerated proportions that are a fundamental part of it's aesthetic. I'm fine with people who dislike the art style (I personally dislike HoN's art style, that doesn't make it bad), but to say the game objectively has "bad graphics" and that they are "for 13 year olds" is just asinine. | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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zachMEISTER
United States625 Posts
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
However, considering the current state of these games, micro-transactions seem to be the future. I particularly don't like the Rune system in LoL very much, I feel like it's kind of unnecessary and a distraction from the champions necessary to get people to spend money on the champions so they can buy the Runes with their IP. On August 16 2011 00:50 zachMEISTER wrote: The only reason people dislike LoL is because they haven't given is a real chance. Play your Summoner to level 30 and see how much you dislike it. League has been great to their community, and the community is paying them back for it 10-fold. I think it's awesome they've gone from launch to 5 million tournament prize pools in just over a year. I've played my Summoner to level 30, I was in the top 300 ranked solo at one point(that's not saying much, I'll admit) . I don't particularly like LoL as a competitive game, I don't think that the blanket statement of people disliking LoL being ignorant really holds water, the game has a colossal amount of short-comings and there are things that were asked for in the beta that have yet to be delivered on, and others that have been dropped for possible addition entirely. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:46 ondema wrote: Is it not a good thing that they are willing to give 5 million of the money that they have "milked" from the players back to them through having a robust season? The concept of F2P didn't start with LoL and it won't end with it. Judging a game based on its model is a pretty flawed view. The real issue is LoL's priorities lie with the casual players as they've openly stated over and over. No replays, pause and spectator mode make the game a joke competitively and if they don't add them soon (i.e. significantly before the release of DotA2) LoL will be completely forgotten as a competitive esport. I don't think it's flawed at all. F2P previously was mostly for MMOs which are built based on people being imbalanced against each other, so the F2P situation there doesn't mean much. In DotA/LoL/etc. there's supposed to be a perceived balance on entering a match where the best team comes out and wins. LoL bends that by having F2P features. Hero unlocks are bad (prevents counter-picking and stuff), but it's actually the levels and the runes that are worse because they just create a flat imbalance for people depending on how long they've played and how they allocate their IP. So in Lol you can't state that two teams going into a match (as in pre-hero selection) are even and the result is purely from their player skill. Instead until you get to the suckers... er people who've grinded out a ton of stuff... you have to add a ...but X team has better runes/levels or Y team doesn't have access to suddenly OP hero. If LoL only had hero unlocks and skins I wouldn't like it, but I could grit my teeth and accept that business model. But when you add in the fact that you have to grind runes and levels and the fact that heroes are pretty expensive unless you buy them via IP I can't support it at all and it's enough to make me never do anything associated with Lol if I can help it. Also another big issue with LoL is the community can't really get that well involved in running their own stuff as there are some important stuff that is missing or only recently implemented by Riot (spectating and ability to play a 100% sure to be even match with full hero unlocks and runes). So even though it may be good they're involved in esports, they HAVE to be doing it because no one else has the ability to do it for them. The only reason people dislike LoL is because they haven't given is a real chance. Play your Summoner to level 30 and see how much you dislike it. League has been great to their community, and the community is paying them back for it 10-fold. I think it's awesome they've gone from launch to 5 million tournament prize pools in just over a year. Don't tell me what I don't like. I played beta LoL and did hit level 30 on my account and have all the runes I needed before I decided that I no longer wished to support this model. Basically once HoN became a reasonable option with a better business model I got the hell out of there. I really only played Lol at the time because it had easier match making and a better UI than DotA. Lol has also been out for about 1.5-2 years if not longer. | ||
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Macabre
United States1262 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:25 InfC.AnatoLiy wrote: ... You know Valve developed Steam right? http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2011/02/04/steam_revenue_nearly_hits_1_billion Almost hit 1 bil off 2010 alone. Riot is nothing more than a moth flying around in the bright light that materializes from Valve's aura. Riot is a joke in the eSports community. Their business side of things they get the job done. Luckily for them that they struct gold as they were the first F2P MOBA game (I think) with micro transactions in a period where MOBA games were dying. Anyway, my post in response to Riot announcing the S2 prize pool: + Show Spoiler + You've got some issues bro. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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EggYsc2
620 Posts
its a joke guys. | ||
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zoLo
United States5896 Posts
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Yiruru
Canada690 Posts
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Jswizzy
United States791 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:15 Alaron wrote: Fast paced? Why do people that have no clue of the current state of any games competitive state feel the need to make comments like this. There is only one way this game can be played at top level and that is passive farm-lane-entire-game, with its metagame heavily reliant on a stupid free blink that probably plagued that game since the beginning of time. Former #1 solo queue player in LoL. Is it streamlined or not? If it's streamlined from other MOBA games than my point still stands. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 16 2011 00:50 Mordiford wrote: I would certainly love it if I could purchase all the heroes in Dota 2 for a reasonable price, perhaps that would be great in addition to an unlock mechanic for people who want to play for free. However, considering the current state of these games, micro-transactions seem to be the future. I particularly don't like the Rune system in LoL very much, I feel like it's kind of unnecessary and a distraction from the champions necessary to get people to spend money on the champions so they can buy the Runes with their IP. No, there shouldn't be any of that bullshit. One of the reasons why DotA's scene has grown like the way it did is because anyone can pick up the game and learn the game in it's entirety without worrying about access to a item/hero. This feeds the competitive scene as players are only bound by their own skill and not because they don't have access to a certain hero or item. Why is this important? Because if you have friends and they want to play, they're not stuck playing a limited set of heroes at the start due to some dumbshit unlock system that's there ONLY for the sole purpose of making money which from the community perspective is a piece of shit. TF2 does the microtransaction system well where it doesn't gimp the fuck out of the player because they didn't put (additional) money into the game. However, HoN/LoL's systems doesn't do that, rather it does the exact opposite. | ||
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