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Why does every thread that mentions LoL NEED to turn into a LoL vs HoN vs Dota2 thread? Seriously, cut it out.
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Yup yup we can explain it with the Soccer vs Baseball analogy.
What is the most easy game to learn and has the most worldwide players and following, should be easy enough to figure out (soccer), which game is most complicated well that's baseball. The game that has the most audience is soccer and everyone knows the rules, it's basically free to play you just need a football and the sport has more money in it than baseball since more people watch it. Baseball on the other hand requires more knowledge to understand and also money to play, some people like to watch it and I admit the game is more hardcore in a sense because of how you practise, although I must admit I fall asleep when I try watching baseball.
Which one is which in this case you all surely understand and although baseball is by no means unpopular it has a smaller spread and less support. I admit it's stupid to argue which is the best sport as they both have their charms but saying baseball(hon) is better because it's more hardcore in a sense is plain wrong.
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4448 Posts
On August 16 2011 22:16 Yttrasil wrote:
Yup yup we can explain it with the Soccer vs Baseball analogy.
What is the most easy game to learn and has the most worldwide players and following, should be easy enough to figure out (soccer), which game is most complicated well that's baseball. The game that has the most audience is soccer and everyone knows the rules, it's basically free to play you just need a football and the sport has more money in it than baseball since more people watch it. Baseball on the other hand requires more knowledge to understand and also money to play, some people like to watch it and I admit the game is more hardcore in a sense because of how you practise, although I must admit I fall asleep when I try watching baseball.
Which one is which in this case you all surely understand and although baseball is by no means unpopular it has a smaller spread and less support. I admit it's stupid to argue which is the best sport as they both have their charms but saying baseball(hon) is better because it's more hardcore in a sense is plain wrong.
This analogy is kind of weak in that physical sports generally have an unlimited skill cap in the way they directly pit players against each other in a physical competition. Additionally, I dont get why you bring up one game requiring more money to play(is that even the case in baseball? Let alone HoN).
Skill ceiling does matter for video games, while most sports have a near unlimited skill cap.
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On August 16 2011 22:13 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:05 firehand101 wrote:
Come on starcraft 2, you are the original!
you were the one who made games a serious sport with money in the first place. You have had regular tournaments with great prize pools, such as NASL with 50,000 first prize, and GSL with roughly the same amount. You can be bigger than lol and dota2, dont let them overtake you!
i believe! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249860may want to read, though you probably won't.
i already have, what do you want me to note?
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On August 16 2011 22:22 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:16 Yttrasil wrote:
Yup yup we can explain it with the Soccer vs Baseball analogy.
What is the most easy game to learn and has the most worldwide players and following, should be easy enough to figure out (soccer), which game is most complicated well that's baseball. The game that has the most audience is soccer and everyone knows the rules, it's basically free to play you just need a football and the sport has more money in it than baseball since more people watch it. Baseball on the other hand requires more knowledge to understand and also money to play, some people like to watch it and I admit the game is more hardcore in a sense because of how you practise, although I must admit I fall asleep when I try watching baseball.
Which one is which in this case you all surely understand and although baseball is by no means unpopular it has a smaller spread and less support. I admit it's stupid to argue which is the best sport as they both have their charms but saying baseball(hon) is better because it's more hardcore in a sense is plain wrong. This analogy is kind of weak in that physical sports generally have an unlimited skill cap in the way they directly pit players against each other in a physical competition. Additionally, I dont get why you bring up one game requiring more money to play(is that even the case in baseball? Let alone HoN). Skill ceiling does matter for video games, while most sports have a near unlimited skill cap.
Well so do these games, my reason for bringing up money should be simple as well as hon was not f2p before, skill ceilings in games? Maybe in a racing game, in a Moba game hell no.
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On August 16 2011 22:23 firehand101 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:13 Southlight wrote:On August 16 2011 22:05 firehand101 wrote:
Come on starcraft 2, you are the original!
you were the one who made games a serious sport with money in the first place. You have had regular tournaments with great prize pools, such as NASL with 50,000 first prize, and GSL with roughly the same amount. You can be bigger than lol and dota2, dont let them overtake you!
i believe! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249860may want to read, though you probably won't. i already have, what do you want me to note?
On August 16 2011 22:05 firehand101 wrote:
Come on starcraft 2, you are the original!
you were the one who made games a serious sport with money in the first place. You have had regular tournaments with great prize pools, such as NASL with 50,000 first prize, and GSL with roughly the same amount. You can be bigger than lol and dota2, dont let them overtake you!
i believe!
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You know, maybe it would help if Riot took some money out of this prize pool and actually used it to send teams to the tournaments they're sponsoring. Even if you add more to the prize pool, it's still not enough. Look at IEM China, CLG will have to spend $6K+ for plane tickets and hotels, so they would have to get first place to make any money.
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On August 16 2011 10:45 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 10:40 Omegastorm wrote:
DotA2 vs LoL will be epic.
I wish both sides will keep their professionalism.
LoL tweets are bashing DotA2 while DotA2 is just promoting their game.
So far DotA2 has been looking more professional therefore more promising. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sC6CT.png) Yeah, super professional.
noone cares about fucking maelk, never seen a more overrated dota pro than him. i always thought he was trash, now he's bashing lol too how pathetic and childish, but everyone who followed/follows the dota scene pretty much knows that is he is.
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On August 16 2011 22:55 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 10:45 HazMat wrote:On August 16 2011 10:40 Omegastorm wrote:
DotA2 vs LoL will be epic.
I wish both sides will keep their professionalism.
LoL tweets are bashing DotA2 while DotA2 is just promoting their game.
So far DotA2 has been looking more professional therefore more promising. Yeah, super professional. noone cares about fucking maelk, never seen a more overrated dota pro than him. i always thought he was trash, now he's bashing lol too how pathetic and childish, but everyone who followed/follows the dota scene pretty much knows that is he is.
I think he was trying to point out the fact that a Riot representative(is it?) openly bashing DotA2 on twitter isn't a good testament of professionalism.
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On August 16 2011 22:16 Yttrasil wrote:
Yup yup we can explain it with the Soccer vs Baseball analogy.
What is the most easy game to learn and has the most worldwide players and following, should be easy enough to figure out (soccer), which game is most complicated well that's baseball. The game that has the most audience is soccer and everyone knows the rules, it's basically free to play you just need a football and the sport has more money in it than baseball since more people watch it. Baseball on the other hand requires more knowledge to understand and also money to play, some people like to watch it and I admit the game is more hardcore in a sense because of how you practise, although I must admit I fall asleep when I try watching baseball.
Which one is which in this case you all surely understand and although baseball is by no means unpopular it has a smaller spread and less support. I admit it's stupid to argue which is the best sport as they both have their charms but saying baseball(hon) is better because it's more hardcore in a sense is plain wrong.
I agree with this analogy, some games/sports are simple to play and therefore appeal to a wider variety of people.
Quite simply CoD4 was known as the best CoD, but compared to blackops or MW2 it does not have the same amout of content to appeal to a wide audience. Therefore most people play mw2 or blackops because of its appeal, however that does not make it a better game.
Justin Bieber has more fans than 2pac, does that make him better?
LoL is a fun game, and people enjoy it, however it is a "casual" game, and therefore is easy to pick up, and has a low skill cap. My first 5 games of LoL i was playing with my friends who were level 30s (highest you can go), and i was still able to compete with them. Compared to starcraft, a bronze level player would have almsot no chance against someone in masters league. LoL is still a fun game, and if people enjoy it then they should play it, different games appeal to different people.
Of course that's just my opinion, doesnt mean it's right ^^ Sorry for the wall of text.
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Level 30 means diddly, as an FYI.
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On August 17 2011 00:01 bunnymuncher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:16 Yttrasil wrote:
Yup yup we can explain it with the Soccer vs Baseball analogy.
What is the most easy game to learn and has the most worldwide players and following, should be easy enough to figure out (soccer), which game is most complicated well that's baseball. The game that has the most audience is soccer and everyone knows the rules, it's basically free to play you just need a football and the sport has more money in it than baseball since more people watch it. Baseball on the other hand requires more knowledge to understand and also money to play, some people like to watch it and I admit the game is more hardcore in a sense because of how you practise, although I must admit I fall asleep when I try watching baseball.
Which one is which in this case you all surely understand and although baseball is by no means unpopular it has a smaller spread and less support. I admit it's stupid to argue which is the best sport as they both have their charms but saying baseball(hon) is better because it's more hardcore in a sense is plain wrong. I agree with this analogy, some games/sports are simple to play and therefore appeal to a wider variety of people. Quite simply CoD4 was known as the best CoD, but compared to blackops or MW2 it does not have the same amout of content to appeal to a wide audience. Therefore most people play mw2 or blackops because of its appeal, however that does not make it a better game. Justin Bieber has more fans than 2pac, does that make him better? LoL is a fun game, and people enjoy it, however it is a "casual" game, and therefore is easy to pick up, and has a low skill cap. My first 5 games of LoL i was playing with my friends who were level 30s (highest you can go), and i was still able to compete with them. Compared to starcraft, a bronze level player would have almsot no chance against someone in masters league. LoL is still a fun game, and if people enjoy it then they should play it, different games appeal to different people. Of course that's just my opinion, doesnt mean it's right ^^ Sorry for the wall of text.
1500-1600 players have no chance against the 2200+ players, and 1500-1600 are like, top 5%(maybe even higher, like top 1-2%). So that analogy actually holds pretty close.
Despite all the talk about low skill ceilings and whatnot, Jiji continues to always be a standout, best at everything type player. Seems pretty contradictory.
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On August 16 2011 23:10 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:55 isleyofthenorth wrote:On August 16 2011 10:45 HazMat wrote:On August 16 2011 10:40 Omegastorm wrote:
DotA2 vs LoL will be epic.
I wish both sides will keep their professionalism.
LoL tweets are bashing DotA2 while DotA2 is just promoting their game.
So far DotA2 has been looking more professional therefore more promising. Yeah, super professional. noone cares about fucking maelk, never seen a more overrated dota pro than him. i always thought he was trash, now he's bashing lol too how pathetic and childish, but everyone who followed/follows the dota scene pretty much knows that is he is. I think he was trying to point out the fact that a Riot representative(is it?) openly bashing DotA2 on twitter isn't a good testament of professionalism.
On that matter, "@LoLUpdates is a third party League of Legends fan account. We give updates on this Dota genre game. We are not affiliated with League of Legends nor RiotGames". Straight from their Twitter info.
Maelk is still a big troll though.
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On August 16 2011 22:29 Yttrasil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:22 Mordiford wrote:On August 16 2011 22:16 Yttrasil wrote:
Yup yup we can explain it with the Soccer vs Baseball analogy.
What is the most easy game to learn and has the most worldwide players and following, should be easy enough to figure out (soccer), which game is most complicated well that's baseball. The game that has the most audience is soccer and everyone knows the rules, it's basically free to play you just need a football and the sport has more money in it than baseball since more people watch it. Baseball on the other hand requires more knowledge to understand and also money to play, some people like to watch it and I admit the game is more hardcore in a sense because of how you practise, although I must admit I fall asleep when I try watching baseball.
Which one is which in this case you all surely understand and although baseball is by no means unpopular it has a smaller spread and less support. I admit it's stupid to argue which is the best sport as they both have their charms but saying baseball(hon) is better because it's more hardcore in a sense is plain wrong. This analogy is kind of weak in that physical sports generally have an unlimited skill cap in the way they directly pit players against each other in a physical competition. Additionally, I dont get why you bring up one game requiring more money to play(is that even the case in baseball? Let alone HoN). Skill ceiling does matter for video games, while most sports have a near unlimited skill cap. Well so do these games, my reason for bringing up money should be simple as well as hon was not f2p before, skill ceilings in games? Maybe in a racing game, in a Moba game hell no.
That is very untrue,any sport/game where 1 person is involved has a very low skill cap which is your personal talent,but a sport/game where team work is involved has a very high skil cap. Doesn't mater how simple the game is the fact that it has several human components makes it unpredictable. So no it's not an insult saying games like RTS/racing/fighting have a very low skill cap,where games like CS/LoL etc have a huge skill cap .
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LOL still needs observer and replay modes if it wants to REALLY be an e-sports competitor. Right now there's only FPPOVs - the only observer modes have to be hosted directly by riot, so you don't see the plethora of "small" tournaments and casters like you do with SC2, and most likely will with DOTA2 (which has flat out said these things would exist)
Pity, because I really do like LOL, and don't want to see it fail just because Riot doesn't release the observer mode to the public (which they have clearly spent quite a lot of time working on, based on what they had to show at DreamHack.)
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I also think that Riot's hoping for Dominion to become a big hit, and I think it has really big competitive potential, hahah.
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On August 17 2011 01:38 Southlight wrote:
I also think that Riot's hoping for Dominion to become a big hit, and I think it has really big competitive potential, hahah.
Well Dominion is pretty much the answer to all those people saying LOL is too slow. Dominion is just fighting from 0:00 to the end,no rest,no farming,no turtleing just fighting fighting and more fighting.
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It also is probably more spectator friendly with the visible capture points, and they're putting a lot of effort into the sound/visuals to keep stuff going. Can't wait :>
They're taking the best of MOBA and the best of stuff like Bloodline and mashing it together. Hopefully it kicks as much ass as they make it sound :>
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Well I will try to play as much as I can(by punching people if necesary)at gamescon. You can also play it at PAX for those that live in US.
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On August 17 2011 01:47 Cenequus wrote:
Well I will try to play as much as I can(by punching people if necesary)at gamescon. You can also play it at PAX for those that live in US.
Make sure to let us know how it is.
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On August 17 2011 00:01 bunnymuncher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 22:16 Yttrasil wrote:
Yup yup we can explain it with the Soccer vs Baseball analogy.
What is the most easy game to learn and has the most worldwide players and following, should be easy enough to figure out (soccer), which game is most complicated well that's baseball. The game that has the most audience is soccer and everyone knows the rules, it's basically free to play you just need a football and the sport has more money in it than baseball since more people watch it. Baseball on the other hand requires more knowledge to understand and also money to play, some people like to watch it and I admit the game is more hardcore in a sense because of how you practise, although I must admit I fall asleep when I try watching baseball.
Which one is which in this case you all surely understand and although baseball is by no means unpopular it has a smaller spread and less support. I admit it's stupid to argue which is the best sport as they both have their charms but saying baseball(hon) is better because it's more hardcore in a sense is plain wrong. I agree with this analogy, some games/sports are simple to play and therefore appeal to a wider variety of people. Quite simply CoD4 was known as the best CoD, but compared to blackops or MW2 it does not have the same amout of content to appeal to a wide audience. Therefore most people play mw2 or blackops because of its appeal, however that does not make it a better game. Justin Bieber has more fans than 2pac, does that make him better? LoL is a fun game, and people enjoy it, however it is a "casual" game, and therefore is easy to pick up, and has a low skill cap. My first 5 games of LoL i was playing with my friends who were level 30s (highest you can go), and i was still able to compete with them. Compared to starcraft, a bronze level player would have almsot no chance against someone in masters league. LoL is still a fun game, and if people enjoy it then they should play it, different games appeal to different people. Of course that's just my opinion, doesnt mean it's right ^^ Sorry for the wall of text.
Cod1 is known as the best cod competitively. Cod4 in competition was newb. For the same reasons as the point you are trying to make about bieber and 2pac.
LoL is easy to get into, hard to master. The majority of mastering it goes with putting insane time in to learn every nuance of every character so that you can play as and against them as efficiently as possible. Hanging with level 30s in a normal is great and all but you should never use that as an indication of how the top level competition is.
I mean there are skillful things you can do micro wise in lol. There are things like scoot and shooting, twitch flashes, pre-emptively determining routes of escape and luring their ambush to make them waste time. These concepts sound easy and simple, but executing them consistently and efficiently isn't as easy as people think.
LoL is much more of a team game than Dota is/was. Much more emphasis on working together and coordinating, and as these are team-based games in general, I don't know why anyone would want to go with the pub allstar oriented games (dota/hon) sure they CAN be played in organized 5v5 with teamwork involved, just that the potential level of teamwork can't measure up to what LoL could have. And to be fair even the top LoL teams haven't scratched the surface of what LoL can become. For the most part the top LoL players right now are kids who have been playing it a long time, know every detail, but there is a reason they've been playing LoL the longest, and that's cause they didn't have any obligations on a competitive level to any other game. Their teamwork simply wouldn't compare to say a top cs 1.6 team that decided to give LoL a shot.
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EPT
