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Why does every thread that mentions LoL NEED to turn into a LoL vs HoN vs Dota2 thread? Seriously, cut it out.
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On August 16 2011 06:42 Ipp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 06:26 billy5000 wrote:
I have a question to those who are involved in the LoL pro scene:
Do you feel cheated by riot?
I mean, if riot had 5mil to spare, wasn't the 100k prize pool for season 1 a bit greedy on their part? Not at all. They accrued that money during season 1, I don't know of any investor that would front a million before a game is released. They shattered stream records during WCG, it may not be as fun to watch as SC2 but Riot actually interacts with the community and puts a stream link in game when they are online. Valve can front the money from the start because they are already have a revenue stream due to being an established company. Additionally, keeping the DOTA name helps a ton. Even if they had the money, they're just another business trying to make money. If they decide upping the prize pool will help their cause, then so be it.
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On August 16 2011 06:26 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 06:21 billy5000 wrote:
I agree that joke was a bit too strong. But if you think in terms of skill involved in LoL, it's not that much compared to dota/hon. Chu is a great example; he got to rank 1 in a matter of a few months. In retrospect, LoL pros are a good example too. None of them got close to number 1 in hon/dota. Of course, you can argue saying that there's no reason to waste time on a different game, but what's the reason for wasting time to get your smurfs to top 10 on ladder? Again, Chu's accomplishment doesn't mean a whole lot, because by that standard, the fact that every GSL winner to date has been a washed up BW pro makes SC2 a joke as well. Which, of course, is a reasonable opinion to have, but if you're going to bash one game, you better be consistent in your reasoning.
okay, consider a reasonably low skill capped 1v1 game involving two players. When their skills reach the theoretical plateau due to the low skill cap the game has to offer, their win/loss rate will almost be even. Now, consider not two but idk..100 players who have reached that point. There won't be any pros who will win consistently unless the same people have been playing for a very long time. Even so, there are always new players adding to that 100. And there hasn't been any consistent big tournament winners in sc2 as there were in bw.
I'm a LoL player, so it's a bit hard to be too harsh toward the game :\
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This worries me and makes me a little sick. I don't mind a game like DotA 2 having such a massive prize pool, since most of the people playing in that tournament have been part of the DotA scene for over 4 years, it's a developed ESport. SC2 for example, is a relatively newer ESport, and therefore most SC2 prize pools are in the thousands, we even shaked things up a bit and had the NASL grand finals have a 200k prize pool. But for LoL, a game that isn't even 2 years old, having such a massive prize pool makes me sick to my stomach, because there's about to be a lot of people making a fortune off an undeveloped game, which people haven't even put more than 2 years of time into to. At least the team that wins the DotA 2 tournament will see the past 5 years of their culminate in a prize. These LoL guys get paid more money with only 2 years of effort. Sucks to a progamer playing a different game than LoL right now.
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umm, holy shit lol
On August 16 2011 06:26 billy5000 wrote:
I have a question to those who are involved in the LoL pro scene:
Do you feel cheated by riot?
I mean, if riot had 5mil to spare, wasn't the 100k prize pool for season 1 a bit greedy on their part?
well it's a free game I thought it was cool they had a season 1 prize pool at all lol
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On August 16 2011 06:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 23:36 Alaron wrote:On August 15 2011 23:26 Senx wrote:On August 15 2011 23:22 Looky wrote:
all pro dota players pick this game up take the money and go back to playing dota2. ez. even one of the best hon players got ranked 1 on solo ladder for playing it only a month. Yeah bro chu8 and his team just dominated the shit out of the LoL scene, oh wait they havent won anything.. Derp? Wanna see something funny? ![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/1z48h9w.jpg) Took him less than 3 months. Imagine if an ENTIRE team were to go to LoL. Every GSL (open or Code S) winner to date is an ex-BW pro. Somehow 1 ex-HoN player holding rank 1 on ladder for a little while in LoL makes LoL laughable by comparison, but every winner of arguably the most competitive SC2 tournament circuit in the world being an ex-BW pro (and not even GOOD ex-BW pros--mostly B-teamers and a few washed up A-team players) doesn't do the same for SC2?
exactly why i think this whole situation is so ironic.
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On August 16 2011 05:38 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 04:06 Haemonculus wrote:
So that's one. The other reason why dota players dislike LoL because it dumbed down some gameplay mechanics, therefore it is considered a noob game in the eyes of hardcore dota fans, like you could see in MYMMaelk's tweet. Imagine a lot of people suddenly considered some other RTS the ultimate competitive game instead of SC2, while that was not the case. A lot of people who started with LoL don't even know about Dota, or how bad Guinsoo's Dota actually was.
I'm not sure I agree with that letter from Pendragon being a reason for people disliking LoL, as much as it's just unnecessary e-drama, I just don't think people care about it that much. But what I really found funny was the bolded part. BW anyone? SC2 took BW, dumbed down some mechanics, is considered a noob game in the eyes of many BW hardcore players and used colorful graphics that many people dislike, as shown by the fact many pros play with low. Yet still that's no reason not to call it the ultimate competitive RTS? Why does that work for Starcraft and not Dota? I don't even play LoL, I play HoN and will play Dota 2, but all this hate is just irrational. There's just something in the internet where people can't respect the others right to be wrong, in whatever way they perceive it. SC2 is not a bad game competitive game because it is easier, LoL may work as well as Dota as a competitive game, and people just need to start respecting the fact that whatever they believe is right doesn't need to be spewed everywhere in a thread that has nothing to do with the subject. Specially when there's a warning not to do that.
Woahj wtf, I didnt' say *any* of that.
I think you meant to quote someone else, LOL
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On August 16 2011 06:52 Skank wrote:
This worries me and makes me a little sick. I don't mind a game like DotA 2 having such a massive prize pool, since most of the people playing in that tournament have been part of the DotA scene for over 4 years, it's a developed ESport. SC2 for example, is a relatively newer ESport, and therefore most SC2 prize pools are in the thousands, we even shaked things up a bit and had the NASL grand finals have a 200k prize pool. But for LoL, a game that isn't even 2 years old, having such a massive prize pool makes me sick to my stomach, because there's about to be a lot of people making a fortune off an undeveloped game, which people haven't even put more than 2 years of time into to. At least the team that wins the DotA 2 tournament will see the past 5 years of their culminate in a prize. These LoL guys get paid more money with only 2 years of effort. Sucks to a progamer playing a different game than LoL right now.
So TL:DR LoL players don't deserve this. Riot shouldn't be spending so much money giving back to the community that help build their success? What a great way of thinking.
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On August 16 2011 06:52 Skank wrote:
This worries me and makes me a little sick. I don't mind a game like DotA 2 having such a massive prize pool, since most of the people playing in that tournament have been part of the DotA scene for over 4 years, it's a developed ESport. SC2 for example, is a relatively newer ESport, and therefore most SC2 prize pools are in the thousands, we even shaked things up a bit and had the NASL grand finals have a 200k prize pool. But for LoL, a game that isn't even 2 years old, having such a massive prize pool makes me sick to my stomach, because there's about to be a lot of people making a fortune off an undeveloped game, which people haven't even put more than 2 years of time into to. At least the team that wins the DotA 2 tournament will see the past 5 years of their culminate in a prize. These LoL guys get paid more money with only 2 years of effort. Sucks to a progamer playing a different game than LoL right now.
The reward is going to be split among 5 people in a team not to mention all tournaments and other teams that require cash. But yeah...so much money...if only Blizzard was more supportive rather than the opposite.
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On August 16 2011 06:40 Alaron wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 06:38 scintilliaSD wrote:On August 16 2011 06:34 Alaron wrote:On August 16 2011 06:19 TheYango wrote:On August 15 2011 23:36 Alaron wrote:On August 15 2011 23:26 Senx wrote:On August 15 2011 23:22 Looky wrote:
all pro dota players pick this game up take the money and go back to playing dota2. ez. even one of the best hon players got ranked 1 on solo ladder for playing it only a month. Yeah bro chu8 and his team just dominated the shit out of the LoL scene, oh wait they havent won anything.. Derp? Wanna see something funny? Took him less than 3 months. Imagine if an ENTIRE team were to go to LoL. Every GSL (open or Code S) winner to date is an ex-BW pro. Somehow 1 ex-HoN player holding rank 1 on ladder for a little while in LoL makes LoL laughable by comparison, but every winner of arguably the most competitive SC2 tournament circuit in the world being an ex-BW pro (and not even GOOD ex-BW pros--mostly B-teamers and a few washed up A-team players) doesn't do the same for SC2? A top HoN player did it in 3 months. He's still in the top 30 and hasn't really played LoL for at least a month. Most hardcore dota fanatics don't go and play LoL. He did and he didn't have nice things to say about the game. LoL is different but much easier. Chu did this with Maokai and I'm sure anyone that plays ranked LoL knows that doesn't happen since hes a super low tier champ. Correction: A top HoN player got up to 1600 by himself and then got carried the rest of the way by one of the best current LoL teams that are out there before they decided to drop him. Proof? Thats a very specific statement. And its been said that in reverse. He duoed up to 1600 and got to that rating by himself.
If you are duoqueing then your rating is simply always higher then it is supposed to be.
Duo que doesn't just give you the advantage of playing solo but not really, it also does some really weird stuff to the matchmaker wich ends up favouring you playing against other duoquers.
The result is more often then not you end up playing complete idiots that are just 2 friends that wanna play together. Two decent players that go in with a plan will most of the time get faced by teams that have two slots given to people that just wanna play together and that is the extent of their planning.
So duoqueing doesn't really mean shit for your rating. It just makes you higher elo then you can achieve solo.
Also lol @ all the people crying over Riot one upping Valve. It was to be expected. When it comes to supporting esports, Riot has a track record of being top notch. There is a good reason that LoL is the most popular Esport out there (yes, even completly crushing the child of prophecy Starcraft 2).
But LoL is super easy noob game right? Wich has to make you wonder why some people here on TL don't just decide to avoid the super hardcore Dota 2 scene and make an easy couple of millions by roflstomping LoL.
Has to be easy right? Just make a team of 5 random TLers and win a few million in the easiest game in the world.
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Why do people bring up Chu? Ladder, especially solo Q, is basically 50% trolling 50% tryhard. If you tryhard you will reach high levels(as in playing one champ a lot.)
You don't judge a game based on ladder. Lucifron is ranked #2 currently on EU ladder in SC2, Ret is #82. Tree Eskimo an intern in Riot games said that at Dreamhack he saw not random play were the person with the least mistakes won, he saw brilliant plays from the players that were far better than top level solo Q and most premade vs premade games.
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On August 16 2011 06:52 Skank wrote:
This worries me and makes me a little sick. I don't mind a game like DotA 2 having such a massive prize pool, since most of the people playing in that tournament have been part of the DotA scene for over 4 years, it's a developed ESport. SC2 for example, is a relatively newer ESport, and therefore most SC2 prize pools are in the thousands, we even shaked things up a bit and had the NASL grand finals have a 200k prize pool. But for LoL, a game that isn't even 2 years old, having such a massive prize pool makes me sick to my stomach, because there's about to be a lot of people making a fortune off an undeveloped game, which people haven't even put more than 2 years of time into to. At least the team that wins the DotA 2 tournament will see the past 5 years of their culminate in a prize. These LoL guys get paid more money with only 2 years of effort. Sucks to a progamer playing a different game than LoL right now.
So someone who plays,I don't know,table tennis should switch to field tennis because he would earn more?
It's not like LoL is putting out stolen money or new money,they are giving back some of their earnings as tournament prize pools. I'm not gonna say Blizzard/Activision should do the same since they make 100 times more than RIOT but props to those that do.
And it's not true many DOTA and HoN players are already playing and competiting in LoL just that for now they aren't doing that well. Take for example the Chinese team WE(all DOTA players),nobody says they are bad but I'm pretty sure they end up last at IEM.
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not even 5 million can buy you respect
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On August 16 2011 07:03 kinkosky wrote:
not even 5 million can buy you respect
but it can buy a lot of salty on teamliquid
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This is great news for LoL and esports in general.
I laugh at those comparing Valves prize pool. Thats as far as valve will go. How do i know?? Ive been in competitive cs and tf2 and valve never gives a shit about competitive gaming. Theyre pretending to give half a shit about this now but theyre mainly interested in all the casual gamers coming in.
Tldr; inb4hats
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Everyone is so mad because they expected riot to sit down and take it. Honestly how does the HoN crowd expect their opinions to be taken seriously in the first place?
It is obviously right for Riot to defend their game publicity wise, I honestly don't expect any of the people criticizing riot on forums to have even played a single game of dota. Too busy defending a game that isn't theirs that has been full on dickriding another game's fame from its beginnings.
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On August 16 2011 06:58 zalz wrote:
Has to be easy right? Just make a team of 5 random TLers and win a few million in the easiest game in the world.
They did make a team. And they actually gave fnaticMSI, the winners of DreamHack, a decent run for their money in the early to mid-game. Then it went downhill fast. I think we should reach a point somewhere between LoL and DotA. The pacing in LoL games seem a bit better, since 40m minimum for games seem a bit much, LoL seems better off in that regard. DotA, however, supports a fucking ton of different strategies, all viable on top levels of play. From 2-1-2 lanes to 3-1-1 to 2-1-1 with 1 roam to 2 roamers and a ton of ganks to heavy pushing or turtling, the list goes on. Dota is a very dynamic game, and LoL just isn't there yet.
About the topic itself. Ummm, that is a lot of money. A LOT of money. Actually, that is a butt-freaking-ass-load of money. Maybe a bit too much money to be honest. I hope to god they start trying to make different strategies viable in their game, instead of the obligatory somewhat stale laning phase that currently exists, with score being 2-2 with no towers down at first dragon fight, because Flash is too good.
So yeah, awesome job Riot, let's hope the playerbase is big enough for both of you!
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Seeing such an inflation in prize money worries me.
On the short term, this is good for e-sports no questions, that a lot of money after all, in the long term however, I have to wonder if that will end up biting the companies ( and maybe e-sports in general ) in the backside via a kind of "prize pool bubble" effect.
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The only disappointing part of the announcement is that Riot apparently has that much cash sitting around, yet still have gaping holes in development that need to be addressed. For a company that complained about trying to fill job slots for so long to have that much extra money(which means they could have offered more, to make the jobs more enticing) leaves an odd taste in the mouth.
It's still really awesome for the competitive LoL players, and given that the game really truly isn't THAT HARD to get into at a high level, that competitive playerbase may jump in number really fucking fast when people start to give it 100% effort just for the money alone, regardless of their stance on how the game plays.
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On August 16 2011 07:19 DerNebel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 06:58 zalz wrote:
Has to be easy right? Just make a team of 5 random TLers and win a few million in the easiest game in the world. They did make a team. And they actually gave fnaticMSI, the winners of DreamHack, a decent run for their money in the early to mid-game. Then it went downhill fast. I think we should reach a point somewhere between LoL and DotA. The pacing in LoL games seem a bit better, since 40m minimum for games seem a bit much, LoL seems better off in that regard. DotA, however, supports a fucking ton of different strategies, all viable on top levels of play. From 2-1-2 lanes to 3-1-1 to 2-1-1 with 1 roam to 2 roamers and a ton of ganks to heavy pushing or turtling, the list goes on. Dota is a very dynamic game, and LoL just isn't there yet. About the topic itself. Ummm, that is a lot of money. A LOT of money. Actually, that is a butt-freaking-ass-load of money. Maybe a bit too much money to be honest. I hope to god they start trying to make different strategies viable in their game, instead of the obligatory somewhat stale laning phase that currently exists, with score being 2-2 with no towers down at first dragon fight, because Flash is too good. So yeah, awesome job Riot, let's hope the playerbase is big enough for both of you!
not having flash makes the game more passive
true story
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Also lol @ all the people crying over Riot one upping Valve. It was to be expected. When it comes to supporting esports, Riot has a track record of being top notch. There is a good reason that LoL is the most popular Esport out there (yes, even completly crushing the child of prophecy Starcraft 2).
LoL is the most popular e-sport because a single tournament, with massive publicity from RIOT that would show up in your face everytime you started LoL or showed up to their website, had four times the viewers of a completely unmarketed for SC2 tournament, that is one of the 10 major tournaments going on every single month, with both smaller and larger tournaments streaming every single day of the week, combined with about 100+ casters on youtube that constantly post video's and thousands of people streaming starcraft every single day?
I'm still gonna go with SC2 as the bigger e-sport, sorry. Call me when there's more than one LoL tournament going on that isn't completely funded and organized by RIOT themselves.
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EPT
