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@Shikyo
You always complain about bad players and whatnot but do you actually 5 man and shit with bad players? Do you actually know how they think? My friend, Paul, he plays tanky dps as FULL dps. Garen, nocturne, xin, etc. He builds them full on AD, not a single health, armor, or MR item ever. He dies 10 times and goes "well i'm going to die anyway so might as well just build more damage so I do more damage before I die." It's the most moronic thing on earth but he does it, and I tell him that it's dumb but he adamantly refuses to listen.
This is how a lot of these players think. But you have to balance the game for such players. People who don't think at all, who won't adapt, or they won't see the game as fun and won't play. As a game company, you want to make it fun for all.
An example:
Stuff like the eve change. Top players know how to deal with eve. It makes them play a lot more passive though, and it's not fun to play vs, but they know how to not die vs it. Bad players though, they'll die really easily. The change to a slow fixes that. You still need to play a bit safer than if they didn't have an eve, but it's easier to counter for all ELO lvls. And while you still don't want to overextend too much, because a slow will still mean you take a lot of damage and that could put you far behind in lane if the enemy capitalizes on it, but at lower ELO it doesn't mean instant death which means it's a really good change for them.
It's honestly probably the best solution to "fix" eve at the moment, simply because stealth in LoL was really crappily designed. Shaco stealth I think was one of the only stealths that actually was designed really really well. Stealths like eve and twitch were simply not good designs, and because of that they had to nerf them so hard that now they're not that viable in highly competitive play (even though they can still be fun to play in normals).
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On June 22 2011 20:48 BlackPaladin wrote:
@Shikyo
You always complain about bad players and whatnot but do you actually 5 man and shit with bad players? Do you actually know how they think? My friend, Paul, he plays tanky dps as FULL dps. Garen, nocturne, xin, etc. He builds them full on AD, not a single health, armor, or MR item ever. He dies 10 times and goes "well i'm going to die anyway so might as well just build more damage so I do more damage before I die." It's the most moronic thing on earth but he does it, and I tell him that it's dumb but he adamantly refuses to listen.
This is how a lot of these players think. But you have to balance the game for such players. People who don't think at all, who won't adapt, or they won't see the game as fun and won't play. As a game company, you want to make it fun for all.
But you can't balance the game for them as it has nothing to do with balance but with lack of skill. In games like that the better player is going to win
And if anything in those games its the pure tanks that are OP, not the tanky DPS that the noobs build as full AD as you stated. If they build full AD on them like they do, they're going to be UP in comparison so "balancing" the game for those players by nerfing tanky DPS makes no sense
Come on at least use marine in your example
another "i have no counterargument but you're wrong"
Btw Eve was still strong in really high level games as she doesn't mind vision wards etc, but the meta doesnt have room for a roamer and her jungle got pooped on. I'd bet that if Eve could jungle properly she would have been still widely picked
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edited because there is no point. Wish you could delete posts on TL.
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Well..
Galio (Bugfix? Buff? I really don't know)
Moderate Swain Nerf
Moderate Xin Nerf.
Main things that affect me this patch, so whatever. The Swain nerf isn't gonna stop me from getting first blood or anything, only the healing. (Edit: Now that I really look at this, its gonna be a pain to play him lategame when the opponents get a bunch of MR. Even with my decent amount of Mpen from runes, I'd need to either get a void staff or some spellvamp items to keep up the healing similar to previously. I had 1-2 spots free in my build, so adding in a void staff is possible, but still..)
Xin nerf... Also doesn't affect me too much once i get my 3rd/4th item. Even with the % being lowered and the armour/mr gained is lowered, I don't think it will affect my playstyle too much.
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yeah i dont think riot is scared of casual players running away and balancing around them since Eu servers have a 2 hr queue every day plus random lags and disconnects because of too many players wanting to play.
Also, noob players use xins ultimate to killsteal, not as the first skill, so it doesnt even change anything for them.
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So the Jax nerf is nice, but does it stop him from being a late game killing machine? He's the type of champ who sits in a lane and farms all day 24/7 and all of a sudden the enemy team has a Jax with 200+ minion kills... and he becomes untouchable.
Malz nerf was needed, even though he's my favorite mage t.t;
Rumble nerf seems... not really that bad? Dunno I've only played against him so I don't know which one of his skills is KOing my healthbar half the time.
I always love Morgana buffs and wish she was more viable.
Eve is gonna be LOLgarbage now. I know she's FOTM but wow, no stun???? Useless now imo.
I'm surprised they didn't touch ashe arrow at all. Especially after DH.
New pirate sounds scary. Going to be tough to run from, AND parley inflicts it too t.t;
WHY KASSADIN CHANGE?? My AD kass is gone forever! T_T
Rest of the nerfs/buffs feel fine to me. Nothing that really bugs me. Although the changes towards was unnecessary imo. I loved seeing little ward tricks, though maybe rammus needed that change because he is pretty hard countered by wards.
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Xin zhao nerf QQ. Stomping <1600's 1v5 with him is fun. nerf isn't THAT huge but probably more likely to tip the balance between dying and living at higher elo when you get blown up hard vs euro comps.
Udyr mana cost reduction at lower levels was a LONG LONG time coming. I'm tempting to try him a bit more but he just feels so useless vs a euro comp because of 0 gap closer you just get blown up even if you build full tank. If you don't you are not much use since euro comps don't have any carry divers at all.
Pheonix will still be worthless. I tested it a bit after someone was saying how interesting it was. I had a decent jungle clear that wasn't the problem, it just literally does no damage whatsoever. Compare to to rumble's Q stats and then tell me It's worth pressing at any point in a game.
On June 22 2011 21:40 Haemonculus wrote:
So the Jax nerf is nice, but does it stop him from being a late game killing machine? He's the type of champ who sits in a lane and farms all day 24/7 and all of a sudden the enemy team has a Jax with 200+ minion kills... and he becomes untouchable.
Any melee like that needs to be winning his lane to farm. I went SoTD/Wits end as xin zhao twice in a row in ranked because they "counterpicked" me with jax or something, and I just owned him in lane and straight up in 1v1. He's not even a real counter to jax. Any AP can blow him up easily unless people stop coming up with the idea that gunblade es #1 on him. Any euro comp (double AP) will just shit on him 200 cs or 300. Brand and malz especially do % hp based damage.
A low burst, semi-squishy melee is about the least threatening thing I can come up with in a 5v5 teamfight. Sure if you ignore him till its 3v3 and everyone uses their cooldown he beasts, but either he jumps in early and gets focused or its a 5v4 at the start because he can't commit, in which case his team is missing a 200+ cs solo and there's no way they're going to do decently without him. I guess he can just hit a tank for a while or something though. Only applies with comps with an agressive tank though. If its just your typical amumu nunu or rammus they only go in to get their CC in and it usually prevents them from being hit for a long time.
Rumble is broken mostly because his ultimate is basically an ashe arrow on their entire team with slightly less range. But in lane he is more apparently OP on EU because he pretty much rapes any melee in lane while in US at least there will be some people who can somewhat kite him and somewhat farm. In EU before people knew he was OP he would just go 5-0 in lane while totally denying the other player and then go and clean up a losing teamfight with a long range ultimate into just finish people off with his Q.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On June 22 2011 20:47 Phrost wrote:
I'm kind of sad they nerfed malzahar. He's only situationally better than annie and swain at this point it feels.
I understand nerfing the pool but nerfing the damage on his ult too means he might not always be able to blow people up, and where's the fun in that?
The main reason for the Malz nerf is because several members of the Design Team felt his ability to blow you up from nearly 100 to 0 as soon as he hits lvl 6 was a bit silly especially since he has lane sustain from his E. Also, his pool was nerfed because late game he could hit things like 15% hp per sec with it and that's really nuts in AoE stun comps where you stun them, Malz pool, and then keep locking them in place with CC and do terrible, terrible damage.
On June 22 2011 13:26 GranDim wrote:
Riot consider a feeding champion to be worth less than a range minion.
They want to reduce the effect of feeders. Personally, this wants me to play Hanyuyu style Karthus more.
On June 22 2011 21:40 Haemonculus wrote:
So the Jax nerf is nice, but does it stop him from being a late game killing machine? He's the type of champ who sits in a lane and farms all day 24/7 and all of a sudden the enemy team has a Jax with 200+ minion kills... and he becomes untouchable.
The reason Jax is a lategame monster is because of his passive. It's like Vlad in the sense it's a "gold double dipping" passive. As you buy offensively (AD+AP), you get free defensive stats (HP). So Jax is able to get so much more mileage out of his gold. His passive will eventually be changed, but a rework is not a high priority right now.
Oh, someone asked why no Ashe nerf. Design Team is worried about her very high win rate in Tournies, but are hesitant to do something atm. But they are thinking of reducing max stun duration.
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Max stun duration isn't the problem. Long cross map arrows should absolutely have insane stun duration, since they are so unlikely to hit. The problem is short-mid range arrows with a 2 second stun is more than enough to catch up to chain in a sona ult (with sona e to speed you up) or gragas ult. I've played ranked games in situations similar to tournies where you are 5 man roaming and a midgame ashe arrow can turn a winning game into a dead nexus before you even had a decent 5v5 because of 2 good ashe arrows.
Ashe arrow should be like 2 second stun if the distance is from bot lane to mid lane, and from bot lane to top lane should be like 3 seconds. Point blank should be 1 second stun and typical short ranged from mid 2nd tower to mid lane should be 1.5 at most. with tenacity thats 1 second to get away so it seems reasonable.
Ashe has been the strongest ranged carry for so long in ranked 5's purely because of arrow. Rumble is also going to continue to be perma ban because his ultimate works like ashe arrow in that it forces a horribad teamfight from long range and you might not even see their team before the rumble ult loses you the game.
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anyone gonna paly yorick right when US gets back on and streaming it too?
i wanna see him 
or anyone know someone who will stream it :D
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Jax nerf was not nice at all. Jax was strong in two places. Early game with his insane Q and QW harass and super late game when he's fully fucking farmed with a gunblade, triforce, deathcap, GA, banshees, atmas and triple pot or some equally high cost full farm set. Everything else in between he sucks total and complete dick against any team that realizes the best counter to Jax is to just kill him or CC him.
He's super squishy until he reaches that fully farmed mode because even though his passive gives him mad HP, he really doesn't have any survivability that the strong melee dps have (whether it be through skills like Jarman/Xin or base stats like Jarman). Jax is also strong/weak because of his ult. With a fully charged ult, he does insane dps and can rip through teams extremely easily while keeping his HP up through the lifesteal/spellvamp of gunblade. Only problem is charging up that ult takes a helluva long time. In that period of time, he can get blown up or his team just dies and loses the fight.
Prior to this patch, the only way Jax would do well is kinda like how LeBlanc does well. He rapes his solo lane (and it has to be solo/ if you try Q'ing into a duo lane with Jax imma laugh at u) so hard that it gives him some reprieve and free farm for the duration of laning so he'll be able to have a nice set of items going into the midgame. Now, his Q harass is weak as shit and scales like shit and he's basically just shit.
EDIT: Also, my thoughts on Ashe is kinda similar to Slayer91's. The thing is, Ashe is really only strong in competitive teams. In solo q teams don't usually have the coordination required to really capitalize on Ashe arrows and without her ult, she's par or sub-par AD carry. When your team has proper coordination, she's easily the strongest AD carry in the game.
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I like a lot of things that were done in this patch.
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Jax and Xin nerfs are still lolwtf to me.
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On June 22 2011 20:48 BlackPaladin wrote:
An example:
Stuff like the eve change. Top players know how to deal with eve. It makes them play a lot more passive though, and it's not fun to play vs, but they know how to not die vs it. Bad players though, they'll die really easily. The change to a slow fixes that. You still need to play a bit safer than if they didn't have an eve, but it's easier to counter for all ELO lvls. And while you still don't want to overextend too much, because a slow will still mean you take a lot of damage and that could put you far behind in lane if the enemy capitalizes on it, but at lower ELO it doesn't mean instant death which means it's a really good change for them.
It's honestly probably the best solution to "fix" eve at the moment, simply because stealth in LoL was really crappily designed. Shaco stealth I think was one of the only stealths that actually was designed really really well. Stealths like eve and twitch were simply not good designs, and because of that they had to nerf them so hard that now they're not that viable in highly competitive play (even though they can still be fun to play in normals).
The reason that stealth doesn't work as well in LoL as it does in HoN/DotA is because of how the map is and how stealth skills work.
in HoN/DotA with presence of destructible trees and non-standard paths ("juke spots") and lack of bushes. Stealth heroes were given more flexibility and safety in how they moved around the map.
Also every stealth hero in HoN/DotA had a movespeed steroid or catchup skill and their stealth fadeout time was unaffected by damage.
Stealth was also something you could purchased along with blink. So it also had an affordable (but conditional) counter, DUST.
Stealth in LoL is a whole different matter. 4 champions have it (twitch, shaco, eve, vayne) only Vayne really sees much play in pubs. and the 2 ways to counter it 1 is expensive and 1 has no mobility.
With such terrible counters and limited uses its easier and cheaper to QQ about stealth on forums than do anything.
Also don't give me your oracles counters wards bullshit. Who buys wards?
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My thoughts on Eve: just because I can counter her doesnt mean I want to have to.
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teemo and akali also have stealth.
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The most wtf nerf to me has to be a nerf to Katarina, who was already real bad even when she could use Shunpo to make great escapes!
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On June 23 2011 00:19 Mogwai wrote:
teemo and akali also have stealth.
I hate teemo also, and I have yet to play an akali who can really make use of hers incredibly well to the point it was super frustrating.
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Fiddles OP
GP OP
Eve Bad
Every OP champion nerfed still good
Biggest parts about changes:
General
Fixed a bug where minions were playing their particles multiple times when attacking
Updated tooltips for many Champions
Lifesteal and spell vamp are no longer reduced if the damage done is shielded
Healing reductions now reduce lifesteal and spell vamp
Spirit Visage now increases your lifesteal and spell vamp
Maximum gold for killing a player on a long kill streak reduced to 500 gold from 1000
Minimum gold for killing a player on a long death streak reduced to 15 gold from 90 gold
Gold rewards for kills where the target is on a 3 kill or 3 death streak or less should give comparable amounts or even more gold than before
Experience granted for kills is now determined by the dying champion's level. Killing champions higher level than you will now grant more experience while killing champions lower level than you will now grant less experience. Killing equal level champions is unaffected
Wards and spawned minions that don't attack are no longer targetable/manipulated by spells (except Summoner Teleport). This means, for example, that wards will no longer be able to block Rammus' Powerball, Mushrooms will not block skillshots, and Jax is no longer able to Leapstrike onto a ward
Talk about fucking OP WW never die always kill with wriggles spirit visage
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EPT
