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I agree with ecael. It really hit me when I switched to a balls-to-the-wall AS runepage that phoenix stance proccing more was actually doing damage, and since (at least on EU) stuns are way less common than this summer I can actually keep people pinned and hit them rather than having to act as a babysitter stunbot.
Also depending on my jungling route (and without getting really lucky or unlucky with kills) I will usually B either for boots1+health pot+green ward or for a flat HoG+hp pot rush, which means less money than I could spend on a chainmail or on a giant's belt.
Also even if I got either of those my EHP in the jungle would be lower than if I got a HoG (i usually go 1/14/15 with MS quints so I feel the EHP difference more than with a 1/8/21 build), not to mention the gold gained from HoG.
Sunfires don't even matter damage-wise tbh, early game I clear creep camps fast enough and a fast randuin (that is, if I wasn't forced into negatrons due to a heavy AP opposing team) is better for me for ganking because of the slow being awesome on udyr/olaf.
Speaking about locket, I used to go HoG into catalyst (which I would later build into a bv) vs caster teams early this summer, but I felt that my mr/18 blues didn't kick in fast enough and that catalyst wasn't strong enough for a survival item. Idk how one would fit a locket into an udyr build tbh, I have seen some 1600 US udyrs on streams going cloth armor->boots 1->locket into stinger into triple pot, but I haven't been too impressed with them.
The mana from catalyst isn't enough to set you free from your bluebuff-addiction, but I guess you could leave it and keep red after you complete your catalyst.
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since there is no guide for Heimerdinger, I gotta ask some questions here....
I've used him a few times since he is free this week and I feel that he is a ultimate farming machine...but nothing more...lol He can farm extremely well/ez/safely with his rockets but he can't kill no champion...
I saw some guides on Mobafire and followed the item build...however with items such as zhonya, he just doesn't do enough damage...it might be my rune page tho..since I'm using my lvl5 smurf acct to play/teach my gf...
anyways, what is he? how should he be used? is he viable in ranked games?
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There is a guide to Heimer though, and rockets do massive amount of damage for a poke, turret are excellent wards and ways to screw with teamfights, and nades powerful as heck if you use it well. Why are you farming with rockets? Last hit more.
Just zhonyas on Heimer is a lot of damage, I am not quite sure what your problem is actually, are you just not getting blue? Without cdr from masteries and blue, I guess Heimer will be kind of weak. Runes are great but I don't think they are completely necessary, though mp5s are still a must.
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Neo hasn't updated the guides OP, that's probly why he didn't know about the heimer thread.
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well i think early game heimer is very strong but as the game goes on and champs start stacking items, I can't find myself getting any kills and do damage like other champs do...grenades do some nice damage but not anything lethal and it's pretty hard to hit anything with it anyways...this is when I have ring and 2-3 rods/staffs
I checked pg1 and 2 of this forum 4 times now..and still dn't see heimer -_-;
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Oberon made a thread, might've got buried somewhere further in. Rockets are your main source of damage as Heimer, and you pretty much have to have blue pot and blue buff to keep up with the spam. Considering how Rockets are a poke that scales at 0.55(x3) at 1k range, few can poke better than him.
What you are describing is less an issue with Heimer than it is an issue with tanky items vs caster items as well as caster scaling. A lot of casters don't scale that well into late game, and ring+2~3 combined staffs are pretty expensive. But yeah, as Heimer, you usually don't get kills, but you'll do a hefty amount of damage poking them.
EDIT - Found the thread - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167879
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Together with Flash, Rockets can score you some epic kills.
Grenade is a decent CC with sick damage.
Fights between lvl5 + ult turrets are heavily in your favor.
If there is anything to be said about Heimer then this: 2 in buff duration, get blue buff. Always.
Heimer is a really strong pusher/poker and deals significant magic damage in fights.
Usually games are over by the time you finish Zhonyas + RoA or Void Staff. If you feel you don't deal enough damage you most likely don't have Void Staff + Blue Buff + Blue Elix.
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Well, my thoughts are that I'm never really low on HP when I'm jungling, just during massive teamfights where I'm tanking tons of damage and that's why it's okay to just skip the first few HoGs and rush a sunfire, which is far more effective when you're running around with bear/turtle on. Gank-wise phoenix is fine but mid-late you're almost never in phoenix during teamfights for more than an activation between turtle or bear--definitely not enough for 4 hits, anyway--and in those situations locket is useful. Randuins is too though so it's hard to say.
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Locket also has a nice little aura and helps free up your blue buff for your carry. You should be running full aspd on udyr anyway, or the jatt page of 6 flat mana blues and full aspd.
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On November 27 2010 03:54 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Well, my thoughts are that I'm never really low on HP when I'm jungling, just during massive teamfights where I'm tanking tons of damage and that's why it's okay to just skip the first few HoGs and rush a sunfire, which is far more effective when you're running around with bear/turtle on. Gank-wise phoenix is fine but mid-late you're almost never in phoenix during teamfights for more than an activation between turtle or bear--definitely not enough for 4 hits, anyway--and in those situations locket is useful. Randuins is too though so it's hard to say.
If you are babysitting, stun is one hit every 5sec or so and turtle not something you stay in, so I think you will in fact get a chance to squeeze in 4 hits with phoenix even then. I really want to test out the full AS+68mana build, but having only 3 pages and also playing WW makes me go with only red+quints for AS =/
And if you are not babysitting you'd be in phoenix like all the time lol
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But uhhh... warwick wants a full page of aspd too...
I dunno I ranked up to 1650 playing pretty much strictly warwick in the past 2 weeks so I don't really know udyr as well as I know warwick but if you're running mp5/lv on warwick you're doing it wrong. I mean, I agree that you want to hit phoenix procs but I guess my style is just a bit different. I prefer to stunbot and hit as many as I can before having to switch to turtle before going back into bear to re-stun everyone. Sure, the stun is one hit every 5 seconds but you're not staying on ONE guy, you can (and should) stun everyone else because mass cc is one of the most sought-after skills in this game and you totally have that as udyr being able to proc bear on their whole team multiple times in a short period of time.
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Other team has an olaf and amumu and NEITHER IS JUNGLING. WUT? They do have jungle malphite though. o_o
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On November 27 2010 04:49 BlackPaladin wrote:
Other team has an olaf and amumu and NEITHER IS JUNGLING. WUT? They do have jungle malphite though. o_o
I recently had this funny game where our enemies had jungle shen and lane amumu.
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On November 27 2010 04:49 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
But uhhh... warwick wants a full page of aspd too...
I dunno I ranked up to 1650 playing pretty much strictly warwick in the past 2 weeks so I don't really know udyr as well as I know warwick but if you're running mp5/lv on warwick you're doing it wrong. I mean, I agree that you want to hit phoenix procs but I guess my style is just a bit different. I prefer to stunbot and hit as many as I can before having to switch to turtle before going back into bear to re-stun everyone. Sure, the stun is one hit every 5 seconds but you're not staying on ONE guy, you can (and should) stun everyone else because mass cc is one of the most sought-after skills in this game and you totally have that as udyr being able to proc bear on their whole team multiple times in a short period of time.
Well there are a bunch of different styles for WW too, I am just too poor to afford an actual runepage dedicated for WW  I'd run aspd/flat armor/scaling mr/aspd on WW and do 16/0/14 if I can spare a whole page to it, but for the moment being I kept a bit of mp5 because I keep on feeling like I want a second blue buff on Udyr. Probably just inefficient spam skilling causing that though. But as for full aspd, dunno. I guess the logic is that Udyr won't really get much in terms of aspd items so getting it all by runes would be the best way, but still, I feel kind of hesistant about it. Will probably just switch at some point when I grab another runepage.
As for the stun, from how I see it, you only really need the first round of stuns unless your team just has no CC otherwise. The first set of interrupts are the most important ones in a fight because of how it allows your team to frontload their damage. A second round of stuns could be nice and anything onwards pretty much has no value just because of the diminishing period of stun and because you should be switching to damage by that point. I guess as I usually play with my friends and we tend to see some combination of annie/aniv/taric/rammus/shen, I feel pretty comfortable leaving the babysitting to the more capable champs and go off to hunt carries myself.
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Kennen and some other champs are on sale for like 400RP, expect to see a fuckton of noobie kennens (me including) in the next couple of days.
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clg stream has bigfatjiji rocking the baneling justin beiber spoof. Good stuff.
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On November 26 2010 08:02 Brees wrote:
a better question is why the fuck are you guys playing sona?
boobs
i kinda like playing her, only support i really like.
must be because she was op
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what's with all the haterade when i pick irelia?
kid's don't know how good I am with her.
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On November 27 2010 09:33 Phrost wrote:
what's with all the haterade when i pick irelia?
kid's don't know how good I am with her.
Go brave or don't go Irelia at all. Caller supports this notion.
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On November 27 2010 09:35 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 09:33 Phrost wrote:
what's with all the haterade when i pick irelia?
kid's don't know how good I am with her. Go brave or don't go Irelia at all. Caller supports this notion.
I've been going dorans shield, boots, sheen, locket, trinity force
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EPT
