How is the pre-req not part of the cost? That makes zero sense, its position in the tree massively affects its value. Not to mention, nearly every level of the offensive tree is overshadowed by its counterparts of the defensive and/or utility trees.

I didn't say the prereq was irrelevent, I said dissing it because it "takes 20 points" is silly. The prereq cost of a mastery point is equal to the difference in value between what you would rather have taken and what you did take to meet the requirements. Utility isn't really any better for a number of heroes

overall offense is weaker than the other trees, especially utility, that's indisputable... but it's not bad exactly, it's just niche

BlackPaladin

United States9316 Posts

April 20 2011 03:20 GMT

#12703

Not really. A few damage can mean one less auto on specific creeps during your run and thus can make a big difference.

dnastyx

United States2707 Posts

April 20 2011 03:36 GMT

#12704

I used to go 21/0/9 when I was bad. Then I realized that Utility Mastery was godlike.

I used to go 20/0/10 when I was bad. Then I realized that the extra 0.75% cooldown from Sorcery or the 1% attack speed from Alacrity was worse than 1 gold/10.

Now I go 19/0/11 and I'm still bad. The moral of the story is that I'm a baddie.

Two_DoWn

United States13684 Posts

April 20 2011 03:37 GMT

#12705

Only jungles I go offense on are nocturne, yi and udyr.

StuffedTurkey

United States859 Posts

April 20 2011 03:42 GMT

#12706

On April 20 2011 12:37 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only jungles I go offense on are nocturne, yi and udyr.

i use offense on those+shaco, most others i will go 1/8/21 if i can get away with it, otherwise i do something like 1/14/15(dont remember exactly i dont have it open atm)

Two_DoWn

United States13684 Posts

April 20 2011 03:53 GMT

#12707

oh ya, forgot about shaco. Never play him thou. Nocturne does what he does, only better.

Tooplark

United States3977 Posts

April 20 2011 04:24 GMT

#12708

Well, not quite. Nocturne can't insta-jitb innocent junglers looking to facecheck that brush.

dnastyx

United States2707 Posts

April 20 2011 04:36 GMT

#12709

The best part about playing Shaco is putting down 5 boxes and laughing when people kill themselves on it.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

April 20 2011 05:45 GMT

#12710

U guys are crazy.

Warwick is the best 21/0/9 jungler in the game. It's the difference between him playing passive jungling and being a crazy counterjungling mofo.

Two_DoWn

United States13684 Posts

April 20 2011 05:55 GMT

#12711

Forgot about him too. I guess I should just shut up about that since I'm an idiot.

That being said. WW way to slow to be a counterjungle imo. His strength is the ability to never be low, and he trades that for speed. Kinda ineffective as a counterjungle imo.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

April 20 2011 05:57 GMT

#12712

He outspeeds a lot of junglers because he can kill a big wolf before doing blue.

He also gets the benefit of being able to start comfortably with long sword. My WW starts with like +11 AD from runes, +3AD from masteries, and +10AD from longsword, so he kills the creeps crazy fast with Q spamming and W.

SHr3DD3r

Pakistan2137 Posts

April 20 2011 06:27 GMT

#12713

Scyx calling out TSM and CLG on HSGG stream. LOOL

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 20 2011 07:06 GMT

#12714

I don't see the point in 21/0/9 on Warwick. Lethality is the far more relevant benefit of having deep offense tree, and Warwick gets very little from it, seeing as he doesn't buy any crit, and all potential sources of damage he might build don't benefit from crit.

17/0/13 grabs everything in Offense that's reasonable for Warwick to have, if you want something more offense-oriented than 9/0/21, and it still gives you mana regen and buff duration to work with (IIRC TheOddOne uses this).

Celestial

United States652 Posts

April 20 2011 07:10 GMT

#12715

With the changes to HoG, how are the champions that relied in the early item such as Amumu and Rammus been doing with their jungling? I mean, other than not show up at all, 'cause I haven't seen them in a long time.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

April 20 2011 07:11 GMT

#12716

It's really all about the added synergy of all the offense stats together. The extra AD benefits the slightly extra AS and all that synchronizes with your runes..

I'm sure 17/0/13 works too but frankly, you're trading 5% base damage and 3% attack speed (at least how I spec it) for 15% buff duration and 3mp5.

I honestly like the 5% extra damage on Q. You'll be using Q's base damage which scales with enemy's HP all game.

TL Blazeraid

566 Posts

April 20 2011 07:28 GMT

#12717

5% base damage is ~5 ad at 18, I'd probably run 19/0/11 for greed+utillity mastery

Edit: hell, for jungle health purposes 16/3/11 may be good.

Two_DoWn

United States13684 Posts

April 20 2011 07:45 GMT

#12718

Ya I mean it never struck me as all that good once I did the math on it. Only reason I even bother using it is cuz neo told me too on udyr. And neo is my master after all.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

April 20 2011 07:52 GMT

#12719

-shrug- sometimes that buff duration doesn't come particularly in handy either, unless you plan on hogging the buffs all game.

As I said the Q ends up scaling with the enemy's HP and the entire thing is base damage so it all gets upscaled by 5%. In addition, bloodrazor gets boosted by 5% as well last time I checked.

I mean, put it this way, say you take blue buff 3 times in 1 game, that 15% extra buff duration would have given you an extra minute of blue buff during the whole game. It really doesn't sound all that good in the big picture either does it~

TL Blazeraid

566 Posts

April 20 2011 08:22 GMT

#12720

Good point. Now, what exactly does lethality apply to? I was under the impression it was base damage for skills/auto attacks only