On March 08 2011 06:25 dnastyx wrote: DoTA is a game with a high power curve. As is Starcraft - part of why it's so awesome to see plays in SC is that everything is just retardedly OP, so clutch plays are exemplified.
Exactly this. Some people find it "annoying", but when mistakes are battle/game-losing, it makes for a good competitive game in that it creates both exciting spectator moments, and makes such plays highly skill-differentiating.
On March 08 2011 06:11 Phrost wrote: Also I think that they made a BETTER dota remake if you go from tidehunter to amumu (who are more or less the same) if you assume the higher skill bandage toss as being more powerful than gush.
I do agree with this--not because of the skillshot comparison you pointed out, but because two of Tidehunter's skills are simply noninteractive. One is just AoE crit, and the other is auto-triggering QSS.
On March 08 2011 06:25 dnastyx wrote: DoTA is a game with a high power curve. As is Starcraft - part of why it's so awesome to see plays in SC is that everything is just retardedly OP, so clutch plays are exemplified.
LoL is a low-power curve game comparatively, so that accounts for a lot of the differences. You really can't port some of DoTA's heroes or mechanics without completely altering the power level of the game.
I think high power curve puts it nicely. Put tbh I prefer the low power-curve play of LoL, getting instakilled by a caster in early or getting raped by carrys in Late wasn't any fun. It's like, if you had fun you had TONS of fun but there was a good chance you didn't get any.
I think one of the things that LoL did best was improving the aspects of jungle and objective control. Putting sigils on monsters instead of just being instant pick-ups, and adding Dragon definitely improved some of the early-game in that it created early-game scenarios for real team-fights for objective control, rather than just laning/ganking.
Which is also why I always found the repeated "jungle nerfs" to be extremely silly--because they took away from LoL's most unique and interesting aspect IMO.
On March 08 2011 06:11 Phrost wrote: Also I think that they made a BETTER dota remake if you go from tidehunter to amumu (who are more or less the same) if you assume the higher skill bandage toss as being more powerful than gush.
I do agree with this--not because of the skillshot comparison you pointed out, but because two of Tidehunter's skills are simply noninteractive. One is just AoE crit, and the other is auto-triggering QSS.
Well lots of Dota heros have very badly designed skillsets - mostly old heros that haven't been reworked yet. (Think Sven or Leoric for example, one point and click stun and then only passives/steroids that's all their skills)
On March 08 2011 06:44 TheYango wrote: I think one of the things that LoL did best was improving the aspects of jungle and objective control. Putting sigils on monsters instead of just being instant pick-ups, and adding Dragon definitely improved some of the early-game in that it created early-game scenarios for real team-fights for objective control, rather than just laning/ganking.
Which is also why I always found the repeated "jungle nerfs" to be extremely silly--because they took away from LoL's most unique and interesting aspect IMO.
Yeah objects are definitely an huge improvement. Brush and AP are the other major ones in my opinion. Actually AP is my favorite one, I mostly played casters in Dota and not being able to do anything in lategame was just frustrating.
On March 08 2011 06:46 Woony wrote: Yeah objects are definitely an huge improvement. Brush and AP are the other major ones in my opinion. Actually AP is my favorite one, I mostly played casters in Dota and not being able to do anything in lategame was just frustrating.
I don't think brush is necessarily an improvement over just having the woods for juking. They each have their advantages and disadvantages--though I think brush is definitely more intuitive and usable at lower levels of play.
I would like AP more if Riot didn't self-limit their design space for supports with it. They could design much more interesting supports if they designed a champ with high utility and intentionally poor scaling. As is, Riot keeps insisting on giving support champs high AP scaling but mediocre utility, so in practice they end up being lackluster because Riot wants them to operate with farm, but nobody actually plays supports AFK-farming.
On March 08 2011 06:54 Kaniol wrote: I want separate inventory slot for wards from other items!
I've never understood the need for this. Even if everyone other than your support is filling their slots, by the time they do so, having more than your support warding isn't going to be hugely productive because you'll just feed gold to the oracle-holder on the other team. And if your support is filling all 6 slots, they're either doing something wrong, or you're in like a 2-hour long game (which doesn't come up often enough for this to matter).
On March 08 2011 06:46 Woony wrote: Yeah objects are definitely an huge improvement. Brush and AP are the other major ones in my opinion. Actually AP is my favorite one, I mostly played casters in Dota and not being able to do anything in lategame was just frustrating.
I don't think brush is necessarily an improvement over just having the woods for juking. They each have their advantages and disadvantages--though I think brush is definitely more intuitive and usable at lower levels of play.
I would like AP more if Riot didn't self-limit their design space for supports with it. They could design much more interesting supports if they designed a champ with high utility and intentionally poor scaling. As is, Riot keeps insisting on giving support champs high AP scaling but mediocre utility, so in practice they end up being lackluster because Riot wants them to operate with farm, but nobody actually plays supports AFK-farming.
I don't know, I mean you could pull some sick shit like this with juking, but it mostly feeled like some cute skill at very high levels of play, while brush is essential in pretty every LoL game at every level.
Sorry for doublepost but holy crap I just stumbled at this after not seeing it for pretty much years. It was like 10 times better with the original soundtrack, but still the skills are sick mad. These russians were so sick at this game.
On March 08 2011 06:54 Kaniol wrote: I want separate inventory slot for wards from other items!
I've never understood the need for this. Even if everyone other than your support is filling their slots, by the time they do so, having more than your support warding isn't going to be hugely productive because you'll just feed gold to the oracle-holder on the other team. And if your support is filling all 6 slots, they're either doing something wrong, or you're in like a 2-hour long game (which doesn't come up often enough for this to matter).
Because i like premading with my friends who won't buy wards even if i tell them to (not to mention they don't play supports usually) so i'm the one warding (when playing something that can carry them at the same time). And we don;t play vs enemies that have "oracle-holder". Don't act as if everyone played this game at 2000 elo please.
Sorry for doublepost but holy crap I just stumbled at this after not seeing it for pretty much years. It was like 10 times better with the original soundtrack, but still the skills are sick mad. These russians were so sick at this game.
Go to the Hon/Dota thread search through the pages. Dota is still really popular in china and they put out top 10 videos weekly. Pretty standard stuff in the videos you posted
Sorry for doublepost but holy crap I just stumbled at this after not seeing it for pretty much years. It was like 10 times better with the original soundtrack, but still the skills are sick mad. These russians were so sick at this game.
Go to the Hon/Dota thread search through the pages. Dota is still really popular in china and they put out top 10 videos weekly. Pretty standard stuff in the videos you posted
That video is from 2007. Saying that stuff is pretty standard is like watching an old Slayers Boxer movie and saying he's nothing special because everybody can do the stuff he does nowadays. At the time they were the best team and they pretty much were the most dominant Dota team of all time.
On March 08 2011 05:22 red_ wrote: You seem to be inferring there that Bane was in some form, not awesome?
Relative to SF, sure.
Though most DotA champs are comparatively more awesome than their LoL counterparts.
It depends on your definition of awesome. Powerful? probably. But I think gangster twitch >> clinkz/bone fletcher
Eve has nothing on Nerub, though.
You mean Nerubian Assasin or that gay weaver dude (forget his name lol)? NA was actually the best hero ever if you got a fast dagon. There's nothing more satisfying than stealthing up to people and bursting them 100-0% in one second.
Nicosharp is in the process of posting a LoL thesis: thread
I find it notable because finally someone with some kind of LoL celebrity has come out and said that Riot's current microtraction system has problems and is cost prohibative, in particular he mentioned the lack of champion bundles, all points which I have brought up on the forums for months in the face of derision. Other than that I'm not sure, I guess it's another interesting perspective. As of now he doesn't appear to be done with it yet.
The thing with Riot micro transactions is that they are actually not that micro. The least amount you can invest in the game is 5 USD and buying something for like 1 USD is impossible.
Sorry for doublepost but holy crap I just stumbled at this after not seeing it for pretty much years. It was like 10 times better with the original soundtrack, but still the skills are sick mad. These russians were so sick at this game.
On March 08 2011 08:08 phyvo wrote: Nicosharp is in the process of posting a LoL thesis: thread
I find it notable because finally someone with some kind of LoL celebrity has come out and said that Riot's current microtraction system has problems and is cost prohibative, in particular he mentioned the lack of champion bundles, all points which I have brought up on the forums for months in the face of derision. Other than that I'm not sure, I guess it's another interesting perspective. As of now he doesn't appear to be done with it yet.
I think nico is slightly off the mark in his analysis of cost. Specifically he says that the gap, "...is further widened by aggressive individual pricing, and no aggressive bundling."
He's correct to say the lack of new bundles widens the gap, but only between those who'll spend a little money those who'll spend a lot. You can still get over half the champions in the game for cheap including top tier tanks, support, carries, junglers and mages. If you're competitive enough that not having Xin Zhao or Pantheon or Malzahar is hurting your ranking, you're probably playing the game enough to buy them with IP in short order.
The gap that hurts competition is entirely the one between relatively recent players who won't spend money and everyone else. These newer players don't have a year and a half of earned IP to keep them level with paying players, and by definition aren't going to spend money to catch up. Unless you do 5 minute IP farms for the entire three hours of available time every day of every week in addition to grabbing first win you aren't going to catch up.
To give an idea of the uphill battle, right now you need 236850 IP to buy every single champion. Even if Riot stopped releasing champions today it would take over 6-7 months to catch up using the playstyle I just described. Three hours of mindless 5 minute games every day for 6-7 months.
You don't actually need all the champions to be competitive, but it's hard for the cash-strapped gamer to look at that mountain and do anything but grimace.
EPT
