On November 17 2010 01:32 barbsq wrote:
imo its still not a core item on any1, only if you're getting absolutely shat on by an ap carry and cant afford bveil

clearly not. it's a niche counterpick item.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

November 16 2010 17:02 GMT

#802

Clearly Hexdrinker is strongest when paired with lifesteal. You may not get insta-gibbed as easily but being at low health stinks. You need some way to keep going and not die on the next hit.

On the other hand, that's for teamfights. It's second to none for getting out of nuker ganks.

At least that's what my impressions are now. Not like I've been able to test it much yet.

Daxunyrr

United States190 Posts

November 16 2010 17:09 GMT

#803

wtf.

Lv 6 warwick gets 2 shotted by Akali.

Kaniol

Poland5551 Posts

November 16 2010 17:15 GMT

#804

Let me see, here comes a new champ AND a new item. Now for both of them one of 2 scenarios will apply:

1) Item/champ sux and noone will use it.

2) Item/champ is balanced but everyone uses them because they are new so Riot nerfs them both because they are used too often even though they are not imba (see: manamune, lantern, 1/2 of champions) or because they are new and people don't know their mechanics and cry all the time instead of finding counters.

I hate how both these scenarios apply all the time :/

Tooplark

United States3977 Posts

November 16 2010 17:44 GMT

#805

Yes but sometimes a hero just drops off and is considered weak and then people figure out how to play them (udyr is the most prominent example)
the fourth possible situation is that they aren't very good/bad just really buggy (poppy on release, anyone? 2000 damage q T_T)

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

November 16 2010 17:50 GMT

#806

Rushing hexdrinker might be the new alternative to triple dorans.

Blitzkrieg0

United States13132 Posts

November 16 2010 17:55 GMT

#807

Can't see that being a viable alternative unless the entire enemy team is AP.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

November 16 2010 17:57 GMT

#808

Even the most physical of physical champs still get their kills via magic damage mid-game, because that's just how they work

aka Garen

The shield is going to activate in almost all situations.

You get triple dorans on DPS for the same reason you'd want hexdrinker, to more or less counter the mid-game burst-champ domination, while still improving your damage output.

The only difference is that hexdrinker doesn't take up 3 slots into late game.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

November 16 2010 18:03 GMT

#809

On November 17 2010 02:50 Juicyfruit wrote:
Rushing hexdrinker might be the new alternative to triple dorans.

*facedesk* NO! You clearly don't get the point of 2-3 doran's if you think they are replaceable by an item like hexdrinker. It's like the stupid fucking wriggle's lantern instead of d-blades argument all over again except this time with an even more situational item...

On November 17 2010 02:57 Juicyfruit wrote:
Even the most physical of physical champs still get their kills via magic damage mid-game, because that's just how they work

aka Garen

The shield is going to activate in almost all situations.

Pantheon does not get kills midgame via Magic damage, neither do most ranged carries.

This item is not a standard item. It is an item for when you find yourself as a carry saying, "oh fuck, my merc treads aren't enough, <RANDOM AP CARRY HERE> keeps instagibbing me!"

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

November 16 2010 18:05 GMT

#810

Hey when those CLG/L0cust games go up can someone link me to them?

Thanks much!

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

November 16 2010 18:05 GMT

#811

Hopefully you'll realize that before he actually instagibs you though.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

November 16 2010 18:08 GMT

#812

that's pretty unlikely, because unless he's been feeding on your team, he won't be at insta-gib status.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

November 16 2010 18:14 GMT

#813

So you're saying if you are a ranged carry and I am laning against an annie/kennen, that you can't reasonably forsee yourself ditching the second and third doran's blade in favor of a fast hexdrinker?

I said alternative, as in, if you don't need the triple doran's to win or stalemate your lane, then hexdrinker is a good choice to derive similar benefits from.

Pantheon players don't know what magic damage is, they don't get to evaluate the hexdrinker!

Blitzkrieg0

United States13132 Posts

November 16 2010 18:20 GMT

#814

Except Magic Resist isn't as good when you have less hit points.

New Item: Hexdrinker
o Long Sword + Long Sword + Null-Magic Mantle + 570 gold. Total cost is 1800 gold
o +35 Attack Damage
o +30 Magic Resistance
o UNIQUE Passive: If you would take Magic Damage which would leave you at less than 30% of your Maximum Health, you first gain a shield which absorbs 300 Magic Damage for 4 seconds. 45 second cooldown.

Hexdrinker costs more than 4 doran items. The shield it grants that might save you is less effective than just stacking doran items. You lose out on a little bit of damage and some useless MR since you have no hit points in the first place. The only advantage to Hexdrinker would be that it doesn't take up 4 inventory slots, but it has no comparison to Doran items effectiveness and there's absolutely no logic in it replacing the doran items into IE opening.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

November 16 2010 18:22 GMT

#815

On November 17 2010 03:14 Juicyfruit wrote:
So you're saying if you are a ranged carry and I am laning against an annie/kennen, that you can't reasonably forsee yourself ditching the second and third doran's blade in favor of a fast hexdrinker?

I said alternative, as in, if you don't need the triple doran's to win or stalemate your lane, then hexdrinker is a good choice to derive similar benefits from.

Pantheon players don't know what magic damage is, they don't get to evaluate the hexdrinker!

you're talking about replacing 435 or 870 gold worth of items with 1800 gold worth of items. So to answer you question, no, there is absolutely 0% chance of me trying to stay on 1 d-blade to rush a fast hexdrinker because in the timing when you have to get those blades to be able to stay on the lane vs. a nuker, you are realistically somewhere between 950 and 1200 gold depending how early they can start bossing you off last hits with their burst. Not to mention, the big jump in lifesteal is a HUGE part of what gives you the staying power you need vs. casters because it lets you bounce off of their burst and recover HP back while they wait on CDs and can't recover the damage you've dealt to them except through SoS.

to make a starcraft analogy, you're telling zerg to not get that first batch of zerglings to deny scouting and instead rush mutas and just deny scouting with their mutalisks. it's just too late of a timing.

Blitzkrieg0

United States13132 Posts

November 16 2010 18:26 GMT

#816

That's a much better way of saying it ^_^

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

November 16 2010 18:37 GMT

#817

To be honest I think it will be most useful on certain junglers that do not build tanky like akali and yi.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

November 16 2010 18:38 GMT

#818

Sigh, as usual my theorycrafting gets shut down here, only to get picked up elsewhere. We'll just have to wait.It's ironic because it's Smash shutting me down and I think pantheon's one of the better rushers of hexdrinker seeing as he shits on DPS carries and doesn't even start with 1 D-blade.

I mean, I love the huge early power-up you get from buying 2 D-blade and a boot on your back. It's great, which is why it's so standard, BUT there's other ways to surviving laning phase against burst champs without using triple D-blade (people had to lane vs annie before triple D-blade became everyone's fetish),

and then so the question is, coming into a teamfight, would you rather have lifesteal or magic resistance?

The shield scales with armor/magic resistance, so for all intents and purposes I will consider hexdrinker to give 300HP, which is 60 less than triple doran opening.

Blitzkrieg0

United States13132 Posts

November 16 2010 18:44 GMT

#819

We aren't saying that having 3 Doran Blades > hexdrinker. We're saying that you're comparing an 1800 gold item to a couple doran blades which cost less than half that. Clearly Hexdrinker > 2 doran items, but getting there without getting zoned and or raped in lane isn't likely to happen.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

November 16 2010 18:47 GMT

#820

And I get that. I usually have around 1200g on my first back, clearly not enough to buy hexdrinker, and blowing it on 2 longsword is going to gimp me SO much.

However, that's because that's what I am doing in lane NOW.

I'm saying there should be a way to completely adapt your laning phase build, with proper cooperation from your jungler, so that you CAN survive even against triple d-blade and farm up to hexdrinker without, as you say "getting raped in lane".