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On February 25 2011 16:28 Waxangel wrote:
I don't remember exactly, but wasn't one of the TLers here vehemently arguing that Zilean was the worst hero in the game, back in the old LOL thread? I think it was someone high profile, too. He should really come forth now and accept his well deserved shame.
5hit, utahime, myself, and I think smash all had the opinion that zil was trash
no regrets
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Zilean isn't a particularly difficult champion to play but if you manage his mana decently and have fairly good reaction times you can carry your team to victory.
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On February 25 2011 21:43 BluzMan wrote:
LoL doens't have enuff farm-independent heroes and doesn't have enuff really good 1v2 (Razor, Necrolyte).
Oh and yeah, LoL doesn't have the monkey courier! It's like instrumental for the 3 solo lane metagame because you can never ever afford to leave unless you die when you return quickly with town portal.
I don't know what this comment was referring to but the one element by which you can not compare lol and dota/hon is the economy.
In lol you don't lose money when killed and creep kills give less than half the gold. Plus the exp range is huge and the jungle covers just 1 corner of the map, and that's why it's safer to trilane: more cc means more ganks and people lose unspent gold when they die.
The 3 solo lane meta isn't something too surprising, people just realized that most supports actually scale off of money and let them farm, while another guy will counterjungle/roam and in this way pressure and gimp the solo laner who needs the most farm and is willing to take risks for it.
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I hate the idea of farm independent heroes. I feel like money should reward everyone a least a decent bit. That way roaming in general is a much bigger risk, if you're underleveled and farmed, but has a great reward as well.
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On February 26 2011 00:36 Slayer91 wrote:
I hate the idea of farm independent heroes. I feel like money should reward everyone a least a decent bit. That way roaming in general is a much bigger risk, if you're underleveled and farmed, but has a great reward as well.
It does, it just rewards some more than others making supports not really want/need to farm.
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Theres are a LOT of farm-independent heroes. The important thing is choosing which champ on your team to starve because gold is far more efficient when it's funneled rather than split.
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On February 26 2011 00:31 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 16:28 Waxangel wrote:
I don't remember exactly, but wasn't one of the TLers here vehemently arguing that Zilean was the worst hero in the game, back in the old LOL thread? I think it was someone high profile, too. He should really come forth now and accept his well deserved shame. 5hit, utahime, myself, and I think smash all had the opinion that zil was trash no regrets
I just search on my own posts with the word Zilean and found nothing but posts talking about how he seemed pretty good to me.
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On February 26 2011 00:31 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 16:28 Waxangel wrote:
I don't remember exactly, but wasn't one of the TLers here vehemently arguing that Zilean was the worst hero in the game, back in the old LOL thread? I think it was someone high profile, too. He should really come forth now and accept his well deserved shame. 5hit, utahime, myself, and I think smash all had the opinion that zil was trash no regrets
It was the shift in the meta game brah. I swear. And by shift in the meta game I mean people saw jiji rape with him.
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5hit was the greatest anti-zilean here, I remember him calling him "the worst character in the game, even worse than veigar", but obv that was before the jungle change and the zhonyas split.
Zilean bot plays way more aggressive than other supports, and before the jungle change having a zil bot made the lane ungankable for his team since it would inevitable be pushed. His importance in the lane right now is completely changed.
Oh and I remember being the first one calling out zilean as the only character who was basically never going to lose a lane, but I got scoffed at just like when I called AP sion superior to AD sion pre-s1.
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United States37500 Posts
On February 26 2011 01:33 Chrispy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 00:31 gtrsrs wrote:On February 25 2011 16:28 Waxangel wrote:
I don't remember exactly, but wasn't one of the TLers here vehemently arguing that Zilean was the worst hero in the game, back in the old LOL thread? I think it was someone high profile, too. He should really come forth now and accept his well deserved shame. 5hit, utahime, myself, and I think smash all had the opinion that zil was trash no regrets It was the shift in the meta game brah. I swear. And by shift in the meta game I mean people saw jiji rape with him.
lolz. Pretty much dis. ^
jiji's Zilean seriously neuters any melee champion. You go no where at all, get forever kited and not do a single thing in team fights.
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That's funny because when I solo top with Zilean, waxangel acts like it's the first time he's seen a non dual lane Zilean and can't understand the reason.
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Zilean was bad when compared to any other support. It's not like he was secretly awesome and everyone was ignorant, he's simply been indirectly buffed by changes to the meta, nerfs to other support and the addition of Ionian Boots.
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Maybe during R-clicking AoE spamfest zilean was pretty bad. Other than that there was nothing that merited him being the worst champion, zzz.
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i can't imagine losing any solo lanes as zilean, vs squishies you can zone from lv1.
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He'll probably still lose to durpgot.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 26 2011 01:05 Juicyfruit wrote:
Theres are a LOT of farm-independent heroes. The important thing is choosing which champ on your team to starve because gold is far more efficient when it's funneled rather than split.
This.
"Farm-independent" is entirely relative. Even looking at the "farm-independent" champs, its not like they were intentionally designed that way--Janna and Alistar for example both have very good AP ratios and were very clearly intended to scale well off of gold. It just happens that they are the champs most capable of doing their job without gold. You get rid of them, and it doesn't suddenly become a good idea for the bot laners to split farm 50-50. All that happens is the next most gold-independent champ cedes their farm.
On February 26 2011 00:32 r33k wrote:
The 3 solo lane meta isn't something too surprising, people just realized that most supports actually scale off of money and let them farm, while another guy will counterjungle/roam and in this way pressure and gimp the solo laner who needs the most farm and is willing to take risks for it.
Calling it the "3 solo lane meta" makes it seem like it's a transient state of things, but tbh I think it's just advancement toward optimal play. Funneling a lane's farm into 1 person is pretty much going to be the optimal way to do things.
Hell, the jungler is basically just another roamer, which is only really mandated by the need to control the jungle monster objectives (dragon, the 2 buffs)--if those were removed, you'd probably just get a 2nd non-jungle roamer.
On February 26 2011 03:00 Juicyfruit wrote:
He'll probably still lose to durpgot.
It probably depends on the skill levels of the players involved.
With a mini-ghost, Zilean should be able to not get E-ed ever.
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Watching Jiji on his smurf is endlessly entertaining ...
He gets ganked by 3 people with a 4th coming in later while he's playing Irelia, gets 3 kills (and double buff) and gets away alive.
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On February 26 2011 04:01 arnath wrote:
Watching Jiji on his smurf is endlessly entertaining ...
He gets ganked by 3 people with a 4th coming in later while he's playing Irelia, gets 3 kills (and double buff) and gets away alive.
He also has the best music evar.
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On February 26 2011 04:05 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 04:01 arnath wrote:
Watching Jiji on his smurf is endlessly entertaining ...
He gets ganked by 3 people with a 4th coming in later while he's playing Irelia, gets 3 kills (and double buff) and gets away alive. He also has the best music evar.
THIS. I LOVE watching his stream just to hear his music, who needs any radiostation when you have jiji?
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Haha, when I watch streams I usually mute and just watch cause I don't like the music they play...
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EPT
