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On December 29 2010 23:25 Tooplark wrote:
So the "strategy" to counter eve, solo queue? Pick someone you're good with who feeds as well/better than her and carries as well/better than her. HMM THIS LOOKS KINDA LIKE THE SOLO QUEUE STRATEGY IN GENERAL!
Yeah well and place some wards, tell you allies when Eve will gank and hope that they actually listen to you when you scream "back". Though I had games where I said "Eve ganks top in 10 seconds" and then 12 seconds later, top dies...
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Also stress that they should stay back. A number of times I've informed allies of impending ganks and they have listened, but after only 10-20 seconds they decide the gank isn't coming and start to move out again and then die.
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On December 30 2010 00:22 Seuss wrote:
Also stress that they should stay back. A number of times I've informed allies of impending ganks and they have listened, but after only 10-20 seconds they decide the gank isn't coming and start to move out again and then die.
Again, what other champ forces an entire team to play passive, reactionary and waste money on oracles/wards constantly to not let her spiral out of control. Twitch and shaco just doesnt compare because of the stun eve has which makes her much more deadly.
Its not about the fact that you can and should deal with it, you obviously can if you're organized.
Its more of a core design flaw that sets an entire team at at a disadvantage by default at the start of each game unless you're willing to money fuck yourself, even that is a huge risk, what if the oracle is proven to be completely useless and she just rapes the other lanes/jungle? Again organization in solo queue shouldn't even be used an argument because its really hard to convince complete randoms you dont know to buy early wards, oracles and play passive.
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On December 30 2010 00:42 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2010 00:22 Seuss wrote:
Also stress that they should stay back. A number of times I've informed allies of impending ganks and they have listened, but after only 10-20 seconds they decide the gank isn't coming and start to move out again and then die. Again, what other champ forces an entire team to play passive, reactionary and waste money on oracles/wards constantly to not let her spiral out of control. Twitch and shaco just doesnt compare because of the stun eve has which makes her much more deadly.
TF, Karthus, Shen and Pantheon once they hit 6. Also everyone with a teleport and a stun. All they need is a ward somewhere. It's not hard to place a ward in the brush that is close to the enemy tower and then have someone teleport there and deliver an unexpected stun 4 seconds after they went missing from the other side of the map. TF and Pantheon force you to stay at high health and close to a tower. Karthus and Shen prevent you from going for close kills.
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It's weird as hell when you have one of the worst and the best games ever. Played Gallio for the first time and I loved him, dominating Shaco, Jax and Olaf into submission. (And that's not even what he is designed for O_o) but having a completely idiotic team that get killed at baron and tries to solo push lanes getting picked of every single time. I can't wait to play him with some decent players (and against som caster! Went up against 4 melee and a really bad Ryze)
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On December 30 2010 00:58 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2010 00:42 Senx wrote:On December 30 2010 00:22 Seuss wrote:
Also stress that they should stay back. A number of times I've informed allies of impending ganks and they have listened, but after only 10-20 seconds they decide the gank isn't coming and start to move out again and then die. Again, what other champ forces an entire team to play passive, reactionary and waste money on oracles/wards constantly to not let her spiral out of control. Twitch and shaco just doesnt compare because of the stun eve has which makes her much more deadly. TF, Karthus, Shen and Pantheon once they hit 6. Also everyone with a teleport and a stun. All they need is a ward somewhere. It's not hard to place a ward in the brush that is close to the enemy tower and then have someone teleport there and deliver an unexpected stun 4 seconds after they went missing from the other side of the map. TF and Pantheon force you to stay at high health and close to a tower. Karthus and Shen prevent you from going for close kills.
Don't really understand the comparison, do you buy early oracles and pink wards to counter TF, panth, karth and shen? Are they consistantly ganking your jungler at level 2-4?
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It would be boring if there was another champion that does exactly the same thing that Eve does, wouldn't it? The mentioned champions force your whole team to adapt (and actually every single champ does, it's just that adaption is more drastic in the case of Eve and lower level play). If you get low HP against TF or Karth, you are dead. Even if they are on the other side of the map (Eve can't do that).
There are plenty of champions that CAN consistantly gank your jungler at level 2-4. Especially with a clairvoyance. Aggressive Eve ganks might be the fotm, but you can do similar stuff with pretty much any wall-jumping champion. Had it done to me with Shen and Gragas. You can't ward everything against wall-jumps, especially at these levels, and you won't see them coming from behind a wall.
If you buy early oracles you're doing it wrong btw. You'll just die and waste the money in the near future, and then you're just screwed.
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On December 30 2010 01:23 Senx wrote:
Don't really understand the comparison, do you buy early oracles and pink wards to counter TF, panth, karth and shen? Are they consistantly ganking your jungler at level 2-4?
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I tend to do this when playing against Twitch, because it really hurts when he jumps out of nowhere and rapes the jungler at early levels.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 30 2010 01:23 Senx wrote:
Don't really understand the comparison, do you buy early oracles and pink wards to counter TF, panth, karth and shen? Are they consistantly ganking your jungler at level 2-4?
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I don't see that as being "forcing you to play differently" because I see early oracles and pink wards on high Elo streams for counterwarding to begin with. All Eve does is punish bad players for playing poorly and not doing those things that they should be doing regardless of her. If you're pink warding to counterward the other team's Dragon ward or sidelane brush wards anyway, then guess what? They'll see Eve when she ganks too!
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On December 30 2010 02:32 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2010 01:23 Senx wrote:
Don't really understand the comparison, do you buy early oracles and pink wards to counter TF, panth, karth and shen? Are they consistantly ganking your jungler at level 2-4?
.. I don't see that as being "forcing you to play differently" because I see early oracles and pink wards on high Elo streams for counterwarding to begin with. All Eve does is punish bad players for playing poorly and not doing those things that they should be doing regardless of her. If you're pink warding to counterward the other team's Dragon ward or sidelane brush wards anyway, then guess what? They'll see Eve when she ganks too!
To be fair, Eve will then just move in from the fountain-lane path. Against Eve you should be warding/clairvoyancing her jungle camps to have an idea where she currently is/is going to. Plus a vision ward in your lane, positioning dependant on the champions on both sides of the lane etc.
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I personally think the major issue with Eve (and Shaco to some extent) is just the fact that she can jungle. There were plenty of stealth heroes in DotA that I don't think were nearly as big of an annoyance as Eve is right now, simply because they had to be in a lane. When they were laning against you, you bought some Vision (Sentry) wards and dominated them until they had to leave lane. If they left lane, you call an MIA and everybody plays cautious for a few minutes until the stealth hero shows up somewhere again.
Eve on the other hand, can be anywhere on the map because she's never in a lane. This leaves you with two options. One, every lane buys an oracles or a bunch of vision wards which frankly is basically you ganking yourself (in terms of gold loss). Two, you play super cautious during the laning phase, never getting aggressive against your lane opponent because there's always a risk of Eve showing up. This will keep you alive, but you'll probably lose in CS and more importantly (imo), it's an extremely boring way of playing the game.
I don't find Eve super dangerous, I just think she's the most annoying hero in the game to play against. No other hero has such an effect on how you play the early game. Sure, there are plenty of global ults and stuff, but these are up once every 60 seconds or more and usually only come up when the person isn't in lane or you sell out for a kill or something. Eve can't physically be everywhere at once, but there's always a possibility that the one time you do try to be aggressive, she happens to be in your lane. It's just a dumb way to play the game.
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You can sometimes skip the pink wards vs eve but in ranked games when it gets past like 30 minutes pretty much all 5 of us are running around with oracles.
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The whole concept of stealth in lol is quite stupid. It is completely all or nothing- either there is no detection and the stealth character can do whatever they want, or there is detection and the stealth character (mostly eve, some twitch) is shut down completely.
It really aughta be like sc2- stealth characters should look like dts, and detection should be active items- where you have 3 charges that reveal stealth, and each time you use it you lose a charge. cheap version doesnt regain charges, expensive one does.
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I'm starting to tilt hardcore when I play this game... my teammate tells me that I'm bad then proceeds to acquire the result of 1-15. I think I should just squelch my whole team when the game starts to avoid such situations in the future, god damn it fuck shit.
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Just hearing the how Eve is considered OP now with the effect on what one EU person had on a champ is kinda funny. From dodge status to ban/first pick status. I always thought she was good, just had a bad rap with 90% of players playing her just sucking.
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On December 30 2010 04:00 Two_DoWn wrote:
The whole concept of stealth in lol is quite stupid. It is completely all or nothing- either there is no detection and the stealth character can do whatever they want, or there is detection and the stealth character (mostly eve, some twitch) is shut down completely.
Twitch mostly uses his stealth to get into position safely, and he rarely does that by walking through the enemy team. Detection doesn't actually hurt him all that much as long as he doesn't run around infront of everyone.
Glass cannon Eve dies to oracles, yes, but you can also build her a bit tankier (Mercs instead of Mobilities, a HoG and a Hexdrinker, stuff like that) and she makes a good melee DPS with stereoids and a stun. She still relies on proper focusing and burst to stay alive, but that's an interesting concept imo - rewards good team coordination.
I'm definitely not scared to fight as Eve if there are oracles around. Sure I try to pick off people who are outside of detection range, but if I can't do that I play her similar to most other melee assassins.
On December 30 2010 04:20 Darkchylde wrote:
Just hearing the how Eve is considered OP now with the effect on what one EU person had on a champ is kinda funny. From dodge status to ban/first pick status. I always thought she was good, just had a bad rap with 90% of players playing her just sucking.
They still suck with her. Taking revive even is not an awesome way to suddenly make Eve better than before (imo it's BAD, and I haven't had anyone show me the opposite yet).
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On December 30 2010 04:20 Darkchylde wrote:
Just hearing the how Eve is considered OP now with the effect on what one EU person had on a champ is kinda funny. From dodge status to ban/first pick status. I always thought she was good, just had a bad rap with 90% of players playing her just sucking.
EU had nothing to do with it, she got a huge buff and every good player realized how huge the buff was.
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Like seriously nobody cares about EU because the top player there MIGHT MAYBE make the top 500 here.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 30 2010 05:14 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2010 04:20 Darkchylde wrote:
Just hearing the how Eve is considered OP now with the effect on what one EU person had on a champ is kinda funny. From dodge status to ban/first pick status. I always thought she was good, just had a bad rap with 90% of players playing her just sucking. EU had nothing to do with it, she got a huge buff and every good player realized how huge the buff was.
Er, what? I just checked the Patch Notes thread after you made this post and Eve has not changed at all (she hasn't even been included in the last 4 patch notes). The ward "nerf" didn't do much to her directly, I wouldn't count that as a buff to her.
The only thing that's changed about Eve if people stopped being retarded and realized how good a stealth stun is.
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Her "buff" was a while ago, not sure exactly which patch. But her ult was changed to where it auto healed her the health instead of you needing to activate it to heal her and give her the movespeed + aspeed. With the autoheal in place, now activating her ult only gives you the movespeed + aspeed it really changed her and helped her a LOT imo. You can do retarded shit in teamfights like go instagib someone. Everyone tries nuking you down, but the moment someone dies you heal instantly and can just continue the process. I know I've tanked soooo much crap as eve because of that as it's like giving her 4k hp with her natural hp + items + healing from kills/assists.
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EPT
