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Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
July 06 2011 17:02 GMT
#20021
On July 07 2011 00:27 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2011 00:21 Shikyo wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:18 Two_DoWn wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:16 Brees wrote:
so warwick nerfs incoming apparently, they are ruining my best junglers one by one, first shaco now warwick. Expect udyr to be nerfed as well or the patch after then ill have no good junglers left cept like trundle. lol gg

They need to nerf q, buff his passive back up. Boom, fixed his lane, keeps jungle the same.

Udyr is a bit more tricky. Prolly have to nerf the shield, buff the passive lifesteal, buff phoenix as well since that is the tank build.

Ehh why would they nerf Udyr? He really isn't too good at all in comparison to many other champions. .

Because max turtle sololane udyr is just as tanky as ww, but does an ass ton of damage since his q hits like a billion with no ad. And he has a stun. Less sustain, but still really powerful. And Riot has a history of nerfing champs out of roles where they feel champs dont belong: eve jungle, soon to be lane ww, ect.

Of course but he's still melee without a gapcloser. We might as well nerf Nidalee and Yorick because they have lane sustain etc. Sure, Udyr is going to get freefarm solo top but his opponent might as well assuming he's ranged. And at least Nidalee can burst Udyr's turtle from lvl 6 on if he tries to get every single cs etc.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 06 2011 17:05 GMT
#20022
On July 07 2011 02:02 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2011 00:27 Two_DoWn wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:21 Shikyo wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:18 Two_DoWn wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:16 Brees wrote:
so warwick nerfs incoming apparently, they are ruining my best junglers one by one, first shaco now warwick. Expect udyr to be nerfed as well or the patch after then ill have no good junglers left cept like trundle. lol gg

They need to nerf q, buff his passive back up. Boom, fixed his lane, keeps jungle the same.

Udyr is a bit more tricky. Prolly have to nerf the shield, buff the passive lifesteal, buff phoenix as well since that is the tank build.

Ehh why would they nerf Udyr? He really isn't too good at all in comparison to many other champions. .

Because max turtle sololane udyr is just as tanky as ww, but does an ass ton of damage since his q hits like a billion with no ad. And he has a stun. Less sustain, but still really powerful. And Riot has a history of nerfing champs out of roles where they feel champs dont belong: eve jungle, soon to be lane ww, ect.

Of course but he's still melee without a gapcloser. We might as well nerf Nidalee and Yorick because they have lane sustain etc. Sure, Udyr is going to get freefarm solo top but his opponent might as well assuming he's ranged. And at least Nidalee can burst Udyr's turtle from lvl 6 on if he tries to get every single cs etc.

Think for a second. Why do you need a gap closer? Generally because if you dont have it, you will die before you can do damage, or because you have such a strong burst that people play so safe that you have no way to actually initiate that burst without surprising them.

Why does lanedyr need a gap closer? He can tank an absurd amount of damage with his turtle, walk right up to you, and smack you in the face with a stun and a dot before switching back to a shield and heal per hit.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
July 06 2011 17:07 GMT
#20023
On July 07 2011 02:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2011 02:02 Shikyo wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:27 Two_DoWn wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:21 Shikyo wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:18 Two_DoWn wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:16 Brees wrote:
so warwick nerfs incoming apparently, they are ruining my best junglers one by one, first shaco now warwick. Expect udyr to be nerfed as well or the patch after then ill have no good junglers left cept like trundle. lol gg

They need to nerf q, buff his passive back up. Boom, fixed his lane, keeps jungle the same.

Udyr is a bit more tricky. Prolly have to nerf the shield, buff the passive lifesteal, buff phoenix as well since that is the tank build.

Ehh why would they nerf Udyr? He really isn't too good at all in comparison to many other champions. .

Because max turtle sololane udyr is just as tanky as ww, but does an ass ton of damage since his q hits like a billion with no ad. And he has a stun. Less sustain, but still really powerful. And Riot has a history of nerfing champs out of roles where they feel champs dont belong: eve jungle, soon to be lane ww, ect.

Of course but he's still melee without a gapcloser. We might as well nerf Nidalee and Yorick because they have lane sustain etc. Sure, Udyr is going to get freefarm solo top but his opponent might as well assuming he's ranged. And at least Nidalee can burst Udyr's turtle from lvl 6 on if he tries to get every single cs etc.

Think for a second. Why do you need a gap closer? Generally because if you dont have it, you will die before you can do damage, or because you have such a strong burst that people play so safe that you have no way to actually initiate that burst without surprising them.

Why does lanedyr need a gap closer? He can tank an absurd amount of damage with his turtle, walk right up to you, and smack you in the face with a stun and a dot before switching back to a shield and heal per hit.
Because teamfights and other skirmishes do occur.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 06 2011 17:10 GMT
#20024
We were talking lanedyr, and lanedyr is way too good in lane. Dont bring late game talk into a discussion of laning.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
July 06 2011 17:27 GMT
#20025
On July 07 2011 02:10 Two_DoWn wrote:
We were talking lanedyr, and lanedyr is way too good in lane. Dont bring late game talk into a discussion of laning.

So because he's way too good in lane he'll never ever join any teamfights?
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 06 2011 17:33 GMT
#20026
Am I missing something? Why would late game capabilities factor into anyones early game being too strong and needing to be adjusted.

Seriously? So its cool if we give Leblanc her burst back because she is only single target and has a weak late game?
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
July 06 2011 17:38 GMT
#20027
On July 07 2011 02:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
Am I missing something? Why would late game capabilities factor into anyones early game being too strong and needing to be adjusted.

Seriously? So its cool if we give Leblanc her burst back because she is only single target and has a weak late game?

Yorick is a good laner. Leblanc is a good laner.

OMG FIRST BAN FIRST PICK?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
July 06 2011 17:42 GMT
#20028
Amazingly, many players play heroes that are far from being banned or firstpicked. In fact, many good players play heroes that a lot of lesser-skilled players think suck.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 06 2011 17:42 GMT
#20029
Fine, be an asshole. But dont tell me I didnt warn you when you cry about getting fucked by a lane udyr in your next ranked match when you make your typical qq post in this thread.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
July 06 2011 17:49 GMT
#20030
On July 07 2011 02:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
Am I missing something? Why would late game capabilities factor into anyones early game being too strong and needing to be adjusted.

Seriously? So its cool if we give Leblanc her burst back because she is only single target and has a weak late game?

If I understood correctly you think his earlygame is too strong and should be adjusted, if that's the case give him a gap closer(or anything else) so he won't be that useless later on, while adjusting his earlygame.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
July 06 2011 17:49 GMT
#20031
just because someone doesn't have a gap closer doesn't make them worthless in teamfights
so you have an incredibly farmed udyr who killed / zoned his opponent in lane hard
his opponent is weaker than usual in the teamfight
the udyr himself built really damn tanky so the enemy team either
1) in vain tries to focus him down and loses
2) ignores him and lets him stunbot / dot their entire team, which in combination with their weaker solo top, puts them at a definite disadvantage
Hey! Listen!
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 06 2011 17:53 GMT
#20032
On July 07 2011 02:49 JackDino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2011 02:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
Am I missing something? Why would late game capabilities factor into anyones early game being too strong and needing to be adjusted.

Seriously? So its cool if we give Leblanc her burst back because she is only single target and has a weak late game?

If I understood correctly you think his earlygame is too strong and should be adjusted, if that's the case give him a gap closer(or anything else) so he won't be that useless later on, while adjusting his earlygame.

Because its just his laning that is too strong. His jungle is good, but not op. So is his late game. People think he is usless without a gap closer, when he has the best peel in the entire game. Its only people who have no idea how to play who see a tanky dps and think "OMG MUST KILL ENEMY CARRY" who think udyr sucks. A free stun on anyone who gets near your carry? How is that at all bad? Why do people assume that he NEEDS to beat on an enemy carry to be useful?

All he needs is a slight adjustment so that his shield is a bit less ridiculous but his regen remains unaffected or buffed so that he can still jungle well.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-06 17:55:36
July 06 2011 17:54 GMT
#20033
On July 07 2011 02:53 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2011 02:49 JackDino wrote:
On July 07 2011 02:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
Am I missing something? Why would late game capabilities factor into anyones early game being too strong and needing to be adjusted.

Seriously? So its cool if we give Leblanc her burst back because she is only single target and has a weak late game?

If I understood correctly you think his earlygame is too strong and should be adjusted, if that's the case give him a gap closer(or anything else) so he won't be that useless later on, while adjusting his earlygame.

Because its just his laning that is too strong. His jungle is good, but not op. So is his late game. People think he is usless without a gap closer, when he has the best peel in the entire game. Its only people who have no idea how to play who see a tanky dps and think "OMG MUST KILL ENEMY CARRY" who think udyr sucks. A free stun on anyone who gets near your carry? How is that at all bad? Why do people assume that he NEEDS to beat on an enemy carry to be useful?

All he needs is a slight adjustment so that his shield is a bit less ridiculous but his regen remains unaffected or buffed so that he can still jungle well.

It's not bad but it's helluva boring, just trying to support shikyo since everyone seems to dislike him.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 06 2011 17:59 GMT
#20034
I dont dislike shikyo. I dislike it when ANYONE reverts to nonsensical arguments after not producing any actual evidence to back up their opinion.

In all likelihood, shikyo has never laned against an udyr, yet is trying to tell me that his laneing ability isnt far and above where it should be, when nearly every top player will agree that he is REALLY good in lane.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
July 06 2011 18:00 GMT
#20035
On July 07 2011 01:57 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2011 01:51 spinesheath wrote:
On July 07 2011 00:16 Brees wrote:
so warwick nerfs incoming apparently, they are ruining my best junglers one by one, first shaco now warwick. Expect udyr to be nerfed as well or the patch after then ill have no good junglers left cept like trundle. lol gg

Calling Lanemumu FOTM into nerf now.

On July 07 2011 00:54 MoonBear wrote:
Riot hates anything that lets you sustain in lane. They consider it bad from a design perspective. It's why everything with a heal is currently on target for nerfs/remakes. Heals in their opinion should be a clutch singular move you use as a game-changing maneuver instead of something you can just spam.

In other words, abuse Jungler in lane as much as you can while you still can! Udyr/Noc solo top FOTM, calling it now. (Udyr Q first with AD Runes stacking Dorans is pretty beastly from what I've seen. Adding Turtle stance is nuts.)

WHAT? Let's see, current champ releases...
Yorick: Lifesteal, spammable
Lee Sin: Lifesteal, spammable
Nocturne: Lifesteal, passive
Maokai: Heal, passive
Karma: Heal
Renekton: Lifesteal, spammable
Trundle: Heal, passive
Irelia: TWO Heals, passive and spammable
Swain: HP + Mana Heal, VERY spammable
Sona: Heal, spammable

The ONLY recent champ releases (looking at the last 19) that don't have insane sustainability due to one reason or another are LeBlanc, Cassiopeia and Vayne.

Brand Orianna Jarvan Caitlyn Lux?

Rumble, technically, though in practice his post-Revolver sustain is retardedly good.

Brand Orianna Caitlynn and Lux all have enough range to stay in lane pretty much without any problems. Some of them also have shields. Jarvan and Rumble have Shields and good base stats.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-06 18:15:49
July 06 2011 18:12 GMT
#20036
On July 06 2011 23:46 Two_DoWn wrote:
What is the build on Lee Sin now that 2x tempest is gone?

Bam 1st post on 1k. God I'm good.


jungle or lane?
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
arnath
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1317 Posts
July 06 2011 18:13 GMT
#20037
Out of curiosity, what does Kayle do that owns Lanewick solo top? I've never actually seen this matchup happen in one of my games.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 06 2011 18:14 GMT
#20038
On July 07 2011 03:12 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2011 23:46 Two_DoWn wrote:
What is the build on Lee Sin now that 2x tempest is gone?

Bam 1st post on 1k. God I'm good.


jungle or lane?

In the jungle.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
July 06 2011 18:16 GMT
#20039
On July 07 2011 03:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2011 03:12 UniversalSnip wrote:
On July 06 2011 23:46 Two_DoWn wrote:
What is the build on Lee Sin now that 2x tempest is gone?

Bam 1st post on 1k. God I'm good.


jungle or lane?

In the jungle.


Coming from jungle I build him as a tanky disabler. Wriggles, mallet, little more tankiness, last whisper, full tank from there on out. In lane you have a lot more farm so I'd probably build a bit more dpsy.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-06 18:25:23
July 06 2011 18:23 GMT
#20040
On July 07 2011 03:13 arnath wrote:
Out of curiosity, what does Kayle do that owns Lanewick solo top? I've never actually seen this matchup happen in one of my games.


Her q is a longer range so she will never be q'd back while doing 1/4 of ww's life per q, and it slows so she can always kite besides that fact with e. His only way to kill someone is damage over time with q's then r->q->ignite but kayle can just ult so she should never die to him if they play right. She also has a heal, although minor, which can help in lane, although that's a minor factor.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
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