EPTKeep in mind this is just in QM @ only ~3,100 MMR so I am not playing the best players.
General Discussion November 17th Patch - Page 3
| Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm |
|
Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
Keep in mind this is just in QM @ only ~3,100 MMR so I am not playing the best players. | ||
|
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Leoric is super evil though, unless you have a Gall on your side that dodges every of his ghost grips post 16. Against Kharazims Seven sided strike you simple use your charge and let Gall kill the monk while you just wait to dodge the strike. Later on you use your magma block thingie. Raynor has no gap closer, so he gets to play dance dance revolution against Gall. Aka dodge all the voidzones Galls throws at you. Haven't seen a good Butcher the ones I did see used their mark at the wrong time. I lost some 2v2s so far. But no 1v2. Won some 4v2s too though. But Chogall is better in team fights anyway. Atleast until the moment Anub gets in ult range lol. So I really get the being the Raidboss vibes while playing him. I love how they decide on your ingame name <3. I also like how ChoGall can block some chokes all by themself. But don't play him in Heroleague until Ban system is enabled. Anub pick just instant wins the game o.o; (unless you have a stim drone Raynor on your side) | ||
|
Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
| ||
|
Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
Also a few champs really need a talent tune up and Blizzards hesitance to change them is starting to become aggravating, Arthas while not necessarily weak is replaced by Leoric in pretty much every regard, seriously, Leoric is an offtank bruiser like Arthas but has great escape, great sustain, the ability to initiate and excellent wave clear with his Q. Leoric also has a well designed talent tree where multiple talents are viable and strong (Choosing Ghastly reach over Renewal, Drain Momentum over Burning Rage) where Arthas has pretty much two builds, Bruiser build which sucks unless there is a Muradin on your team to actually soak damage or full tank build where your still not all that tanky and your damage is ridiculous gimped. Sad to see other champs getting the Stitches treatment where they pretty much have to fall completely out of the meta for Blizzard to touch them. Chen as well, little purpose other then damage sponge and completely linear, Gazlow is useless in team fights and is bullied by pretty much everyone in lane. Disappointing patch. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 20 2015 04:16 Beelzebub1 wrote: Chogall feels slightly OP at this point, requiring one person to maneuver him so he's super slippery and one person to spam and aim abilities, I'm not a fan of the design at all, let's not try to make Archon mode for everything. It's a moba lol Also a few champs really need a talent tune up and Blizzards hesitance to change them is starting to become aggravating, Arthas while not necessarily weak is replaced by Leoric in pretty much every regard, seriously, Leoric is an offtank bruiser like Arthas but has great escape, great sustain, the ability to initiate and excellent wave clear with his Q. Leoric also has a well designed talent tree where multiple talents are viable and strong (Choosing Ghastly reach over Renewal, Drain Momentum over Burning Rage) where Arthas has pretty much two builds, Bruiser build which sucks unless there is a Muradin on your team to actually soak damage or full tank build where your still not all that tanky and your damage is ridiculous gimped. Sad to see other champs getting the Stitches treatment where they pretty much have to fall completely out of the meta for Blizzard to touch them. Chen as well, little purpose other then damage sponge and completely linear, Gazlow is useless in team fights and is bullied by pretty much everyone in lane. Disappointing patch. They just implemented pretty huge changes with all of the scaling and death timer changes, so completely reworking talent trees or making big balance changes would be too much at this point while still trying to maintain game balance at the highest levels. We'll probably see more changes to Heroes that have been knocked out of the meta in the future once the scaling changes settle and a better balance is established. (Also, you're just completely wrong about Arthas, and he's actually been a higher priority than Leoric for most of the past month in professional games, but we won't talk about that). As for Cho'Gall, he is kinda crazy at the moment, but there are a few Heroes who actually just destroy him (Butcher/Sonya/SSS Kharazim). Also, it's pretty easy to just outrotate him and gain a really easy lead, especially if you have a team of 5. I don't think he'll be viable in pro play anytime soon for that reason alone. As a sidenote: I do kind of like how chaotic he feels at times...bombs and shit everywhere :D. | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Though sadly, he indeed has been picked very frequently lately. | ||
|
Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On November 20 2015 04:28 SC2John wrote: They just implemented pretty huge changes with all of the scaling and death timer changes, so completely reworking talent trees or making big balance changes would be too much at this point while still trying to maintain game balance at the highest levels. We'll probably see more changes to Heroes that have been knocked out of the meta in the future once the scaling changes settle and a better balance is established. (Also, you're just completely wrong about Arthas, and he's actually been a higher priority than Leoric for most of the past month in professional games, but we won't talk about that). As for Cho'Gall, he is kinda crazy at the moment, but there are a few Heroes who actually just destroy him (Butcher/Sonya/SSS Kharazim). Also, it's pretty easy to just outrotate him and gain a really easy lead, especially if you have a team of 5. I don't think he'll be viable in pro play anytime soon for that reason alone. As a sidenote: I do kind of like how chaotic he feels at times...bombs and shit everywhere :D. That's a reasonable retort, Arthas is always picked in pro play and I hardly ever see him do well, and when he does "well" it's because the team coordination was real and they capitalized hard on his strengths, I'm not trying to argue I've played Arthas to 13 and he is one of my all time favorite heroes to play, I just play alot of Leoric as well so I see the side by side comparisons on a daily. I am by no means a pro, in fact I'm terrible. | ||
|
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 20 2015 05:36 Beelzebub1 wrote: That's a reasonable retort, Arthas is always picked in pro play and I hardly ever see him do well, and when he does "well" it's because the team coordination was real and they capitalized hard on his strengths, I'm not trying to argue I've played Arthas to 13 and he is one of my all time favorite heroes to play, I just play alot of Leoric as well so I see the side by side comparisons on a daily. I am by no means a pro, in fact I'm terrible. Hahaha, I may be over-opinionated when it comes to Arthas. I love him in his current iteration, but I can see some reworks coming for him down the line. I can understand where you're coming from. | ||
|
Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On November 20 2015 06:38 SC2John wrote: Hahaha, I may be over-opinionated when it comes to Arthas. I love him in his current iteration, but I can see some reworks coming for him down the line. I can understand where you're coming from. Some form of even soft escape would be totally amazing, if one talent instead of the stupid 3 mana reduction (I know some people swear by it but it's pretty unconventional in my opinion especially at pro level play) maybe it could increase movement speed a bit? So any hero trying to close in on Arthas is not only getting the slow from his E but he is going slightly faster? I don't know, I feel his main lacking is his complete commitment to a fight if he takes one, it kinda works on Butcher but Butcher pumps out way more single target DPS but I still feel Butcher is gimped in the competitive scene because his lack of a retreat. Appreciate that you weren't too aggressive I was trying hard not to lol I totally love Arthas as a champ still but he could just be better. | ||
|
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
Would like to see him be a little bit different. | ||
|
Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On November 20 2015 09:45 Ramiz1989 wrote: I haven't played a lot of Arthas, but I like him a lot actually. Interesting and fun to play bruiser. In my opinion he has his spot and I wouldn't like him to become a standard as that is terribly boring. He doesn't need a buff(or at least not that big) but definitely needs tier rework, he has barely any choices and even where you do, they are not really interesting. Would like to see him be a little bit different. I love Arthas and you said it completely correct, he has his spot and doesn't need to be like tier 1 picked or banned every game but the tiers are just so bad, like you said no choices suck and leads to linear and predictable play with little strategy. | ||
|
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
With the new scaling, seasoned marksman and the regen talents got a lot worse; their effect in the early game is a lot weaker, and they're no better than they used to be later on. I'm thinking they shouldn't have done any hero changes in the same patch as the scaling changes, because the scaling change alone messes with SO much, it'd be easier to see the effects it had if there were no confounding variables. | ||
|
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
| ||
|
Freezard
Sweden1019 Posts
On November 20 2015 14:20 zlefin wrote: Still getting used to the new patch, some of the changes really mess with things a lot. With the new scaling, seasoned marksman and the regen talents got a lot worse; their effect in the early game is a lot weaker, and they're no better than they used to be later on. I'm thinking they shouldn't have done any hero changes in the same patch as the scaling changes, because the scaling change alone messes with SO much, it'd be easier to see the effects it had if there were no confounding variables. Agreed. I don't understand the point of balancing heroes while indirectly changing all 45 heroes with the scaling changes. | ||
|
Swisslink
2954 Posts
I really don't think so, tbh. He might be the strongest hero in the game, which he HAS to be by a huge margin, because he takes two slots. But somehow I doubt that he's strong enough to replace 2 heroes. Especially during the laning phase, I feel like you're pretty much screwed with a Cho'Gall in your team. He's so much fun to play , no doubt about that, but so far I'm still wqiting to see a Cho'Gall winning a game beside a QM where both teams had him. | ||
|
Ej_
47656 Posts
On November 20 2015 18:21 Swisslink wrote: Is Cho'Gall really considered a strong hero? I really don't think so, tbh. He might be the strongest hero in the game, which he HAS to be by a huge margin, because he takes two slots. But somehow I doubt that he's strong enough to replace 2 heroes. Especially during the laning phase, I feel like you're pretty much screwed with a Cho'Gall in your team. He's so much fun to play , no doubt about that, but so far I'm still wqiting to see a Cho'Gall winning a game beside a QM where both teams had him. we haven't really seen pros play him and they are the ones who could milk the most out of the hero. I imagine he could do a buttload of damage if Cho and Gall work together well, but probably will end up being a niche pick in the pro scene because of worse map presence. | ||
|
Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
About leoric and arthas discussion: According to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/498161-hero-selection-guide, leoric is a tank and not a bruiser. | ||
|
Leolio
France633 Posts
Murky because he can die and he has less chance of his egg being found since it's only 4 bodies in the opposite team and they CANNOT get Nova to hunt the egg (we did it and it was awful even though we won) and even Zeratul is too risky. Zagara with nydus and creep talents Leoric or Tassadar because of their wonderful escapes or simply Asmodan who can push without much risks With these, if you manage to not feed, you should just crush them on a 3 lane map. | ||
|
karazax
United States3737 Posts
Recommended heroes to play against Cho’gall
I had good luck with Sonya too so far. hotslogs.com shows Cho'gall with by far the lowest win rating at the highest levels at only 21.1% and only 23.1% over all. | ||
|
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 20 2015 18:46 Foxxan wrote: Alot of heroes should be standard, OR ELSE there is so little choice. About leoric and arthas discussion: According to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/498161-hero-selection-guide, leoric is a tank and not a bruiser. Well Leoric can be played as solo tank but he definitely isn't on par with Muradin or Johanna regarding solo tanking potential. I would still say that he is a bruiser(at least pro players refer to him that way), but unlike most other bruisers he doesn't want to dive into backline and is a frontline killer. In short he is a bruiser that kills other Warriors/Tanks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/498784-kingcaffeines-leo-tips About standard heroes, if Arthas became standard hero that we see every(or even every third) game, he would become boring really fast... A lot of "new" meta heroes were awesome at first(ETC, Tyrande, Sonya for example) but now I am seeing them every game in HL/TL and they are not so exciting now. I really love heroes that appear once in a while and are quite situational, but in the right situation wreck enemy team if they are not prepared for them. | ||
| ||
