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On May 13 2015 23:42 FeyFey wrote:Mura already was  thanks to the ranged dd meta. At 20 he jumped besides one stunned hit lick a truck stunned hit like a truck once more and the ranged dd is gone and usually he jumps away again. I seem to be doing more damage with Sylvanas now with the changed talent ? But I only played really horrible games today, people seem to have gotten really bad in QM. Won 1 game with a bot even. But enemy taking the Hunt definitely helped. Suddenly everyone was sticking together lol.
I've always liked Muradin and thought he was underappreciated for what he could do in light of the more popular tank picks. The buffs to him from this patch are finally going to get him noticed.
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I feel like I'm gonna need flashcard for all the Kael'Thas combos. I went in test mode with a buddy to evaluate convection; short of buffing the stun, it seems hard to pull off (DQE is the order to hit during stun). DWW is tons of single target dps with some splash. DE is obviously very situational, and I feel like its generally not gonna work as well. I'm kinda thinking pass on convection and use D mostly on W? But I'm really not sure. Teamfights might help convection.
Also, I'm pretty sure you can't actually outrun the pyroblast; we tried at max range, mounted, and it still went thru all the gates and hit him. Phoenix prolly better tho.
And Muradin is hilarious in avatar mode. No stuns for you, bitch!
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Kael is really, really growing on me.
I always get mana addict at level 1. I tried all of the talents once and like addict the best for a few reasons. First, it essentially doubles your mana pool by the end game -- 400+ extra mana is a lot of extra casts and a lot of extra damage over the course of a fight. Second, addict is always working for you. While convection is, in theory, the better talent for damage, I find it somewhat difficult to reliably hit Kael's pyro/gravity combo. Even when I do hit it, I ask myself... is the extra 20% flamestrike damage worth it? I don't think so.
In theory, I like fel infusion at level one as it increases Kael's survivability, but in practice, I find that if survivability becomes an issue, I'm better off going with arcane barrier. Which brings me to my third reason for always taking mana addict: it allows you the option to spec for arcane barrier and get a powerful shield. Because the shield adds 200% damage, and because you have mana addict, you're adding 1,000 hp to your 45 second shield -- not too bad.
Energy roil, the last talent, could be good if you make Kael into a stun-bot, but his stun is already his most expensive spell at 85 mana. I don't find reducing the cooldown on it to be a better choice than mana addict, fel infusion or convection.
For tier 4 I prefer picking the stun talent. It seems lackluster in comparison to the others, but I've found two things. The first is that a 1.5 second stun feels like forever, and is powerful. The second is that you just barely have enough speed to catch fleeing heroes if you take this talent at level 4. It's definitely not the only way to play Kael, but for my playstyle, it's my favorite talent. It's netted me and my team more than a few kills and seeing how team-oriented Kael is, I always pick it. Gathering power could be really good but it's quite aggressive. It and envenom are obviously viable, but I feel like being able to situationally set up stuns is preferable for me.
At level 7 I improve the living bomb explosion. Kael feels too fragile to me to be doing a lot of auto-attacking, plus I find the timing difficult to work out vs. the payoff. 75% more explosion for what is perhaps your main damage skill? Sure!
I don't have as many thoughts on his ultimates save that both seem viable. I've tried both their lvl 20 versions too which seem viable, but you're always playing riskier without bolt.
At level 13 I always go for the spreading bomb. I tried reducing the cooldowns but it didn't seem as impactful.
And at level 16, I like having a choice to make based on how the game is going. If I'm getting targeted or feel scared, I go for arcane barrier. Otherwise I go for ignite, which is really, really good. The more living bombs you can get off, the more powerful Kael seems to be -- ignite lets you get off multiple bombs simultaneously if you get the opportunity to land a large flamestrike.
-- 1.5 second stun is enough that if you stun someone and immediately cast pyro, you almost always get it off.
-- Casting living bomb on multiple targets instead of just burning your first one leads to a lot of damage. I like using verdant spheres, living bombing the enemies towers, then running.
I feel like there is a burst build waiting out there for Kael'Thas that is just awesome if you can land his combo, garbage if you can't. Like a ranged kerrigan.
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I suspect that taking the stun talents at levels 1 and 4 will be necessary for indirectly boosting Kael's survival. Beyond that, proper positioning is going to be ultra critical for him. Frankly, I think that Kael simply has to stay out of sight until a teamfight begins or he will be dived on and killed. Heroes like Zeratul and Nova are going to be nightmares for him to deal with.
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Mexico2170 Posts
You cannot out run the pyroblast, you can however, as kaelthas is channeling it, run away from him and if you get far enough you'll cancel it as if you had stunned him, putting the ability in a 10 second cool down. There is an indicator of this range when kalethas casts it.
I haven't found much trouble casting the combo. You just use your skills and that's it, you may have to predict a little where the enemy heroes will move by I don't think that is hard to do since most players are predictable.
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How long does it take until Kael'Thas is only 10'000? :o
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2 weeks I think if my memory isn't failing me right now on the past. And damn ETC healer with a moving moshpit. Uther just got replaced.
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Why do you think about Raynor changes? At first I thought that Jaina will be my main char. Than i realized how bad I am at dealing with women. Maybe i need a simple r-click character?
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Does anyone know a good stats page? I have the feeling that Kael is a lot less fragile than I expected him to be (on the same level as Jaina and Sylv) and wanted to check if this is just a feeling (prob due to his stun boosting his survivability) or if it is actually based on stats.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On May 14 2015 04:38 ACrow wrote:
Does anyone know a good stats page? I have the feeling that Kael is a lot less fragile than I expected him to be (on the same level as Jaina and Sylv) and wanted to check if this is just a feeling (prob due to his stun boosting his survivability) or if it is actually based on stats.
We've got all the hero stats on liquipedia and it shows that Kael'thas is within 20 health of Sylvanas while Jaina is weaker than both.
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I think I figured out why Raynor got an increased push back. His new mobility boosts basically makes it the same if you chase someone, so they have atleast a chance to escape him xD. Think I like it more, though you can easy save your opponent by accident.
Oh and Kael'thas and Slyvanas have a great line if they meet. But the bug on the testing map where you can make infinite phoenix is super fun.
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On May 14 2015 01:25 xDaunt wrote:
I suspect that taking the stun talents at levels 1 and 4 will be necessary for indirectly boosting Kael's survival. Beyond that, proper positioning is going to be ultra critical for him. Frankly, I think that Kael simply has to stay out of sight until a teamfight begins or he will be dived on and killed. Heroes like Zeratul and Nova are going to be nightmares for him to deal with.
I haven't tried the lvl 1 stun talent yet but agreed on the level 4 one.
Playing a little more Kael, I think one of my favorite parts are how his ultimates are both sub-60 second cooldowns. He really feels like a different hero in the sense that you can cast phoenix ALL the time. Pushing lanes? Fighting a boss? It's a 40 second cooldown, why not! Obviously this can be taken too far, but compared to other ultimates, Kael's REALLY feel like a part of his kit.
How do you guys use verdant spheres? I note the lvl 1 stun CD reduction could be pretty damn good with the CD reduction, basically if you hit three targets, you have a 4 second CD on your stun. So that talent hasn't really fit my playstyle as of yet.
I virtually always just cast the free living bomb and only situationally use the triple stun or the large flamestrike.
How do you guys strategize your verdant sphere uses? Any cool uses you've found?
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God dammit, the mechano spider mount doesn't even show up in the mount selection area anymore.
Just release the damn mount Blizzard  .
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On May 14 2015 04:43 Valiver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 04:38 ACrow wrote:
Does anyone know a good stats page? I have the feeling that Kael is a lot less fragile than I expected him to be (on the same level as Jaina and Sylv) and wanted to check if this is just a feeling (prob due to his stun boosting his survivability) or if it is actually based on stats. We've got all the hero stats on liquipedia and it shows that Kael'thas is within 20 health of Sylvanas while Jaina is weaker than both.
KT doesn't have the escapability of those two heroes though. I've found he's easy to pick off if not properly protected. And in QM that happens a lot.
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KT is dying left and right in the QM matches I've seen him.
No escapes and since he's new, a lot of players underestimate how fragile he is.
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On May 14 2015 21:16 Thezzy wrote:
KT is dying left and right in the QM matches I've seen him.
No escapes and since he's new, a lot of players underestimate how fragile he is.
Not much worse than jaina really, who is even more fragile. Jaina has a bit of slow to kite opponents but KT has a fairly lengthy stun so they are pretty much the same there. The ranges are pretty similar too, jaina even has slightly lower range on her cone. Nothing special to keep KT alive, just the lack of a sprint/ice block talent at 13 makes it pretty tricky if you get targeted in teamfights at that stage.
What's more frustating though is the allies that don't understand chain bomb. So many tanks spreading it to allies without separating and it can hurt pretty damn badly.
I'm mostly puzzled by why so many players take the improved mana talent though.. Don't see what the use of it is since you rarely get full mana anyway in a match, and if you have you have plenty for a teamfight for a teamfight later anyway. If you plan on comboing it with the lvl 16 talent sure go ahead but otherwise it has almost no use except granting a bit of mana on picking up a health globe which is almost neglectible.
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On May 14 2015 22:57 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 21:16 Thezzy wrote:
KT is dying left and right in the QM matches I've seen him.
No escapes and since he's new, a lot of players underestimate how fragile he is. Not much worse than jaina really, who is even more fragile. Jaina has a bit of slow to kite opponents but KT has a fairly lengthy stun so they are pretty much the same there. The ranges are pretty similar too, jaina even has slightly lower range on her cone. Nothing special to keep KT alive, just the lack of a sprint/ice block talent at 13 makes it pretty tricky if you get targeted in teamfights at that stage. What's more frustating though is the allies that don't understand chain bomb. So many tanks spreading it to allies without separating and it can hurt pretty damn badly. I'm mostly puzzled by why so many players take the improved mana talent though.. Don't see what the use of it is since you rarely get full mana anyway in a match, and if you have you have plenty for a teamfight for a teamfight later anyway. If you plan on comboing it with the lvl 16 talent sure go ahead but otherwise it has almost no use except granting a bit of mana on picking up a health globe which is almost neglectible.
Jaina has a number of ways to slow/freeze the opponent, as well as Ice Block, which is a fantastic defensive ability. KT has one stun that is 1) Hard to aim, 2) has a long cool down, 3) moves slowly unless you talent for it, and 4) can easily be sucked up by other targets unless you have a D available to use on it. KT is also a mana hog compared to Jaina and his stun is his most expensive ability.
KT is obviously quite a bit more fragile than Jaina, but he can also string out some insane burst, even moreso than Jaina can.
as for the mana talent, it can really be a boost to 1) his sustain, since he's such a mana hog and it will allow you to stay out on the map longer (I've gotten upwards of 600-700 extra max mana throughout the game, which is far from negligible), and 2) it has good synergy with his shield talent that gives you 200% of your max mana as a shield. It's not entirely useless, but I do agree that other talents are more useful.
KT doesn't have the escapability of those two heroes though. I've found he's easy to pick off if not properly protected. And in QM that happens a lot.
KT is also useless 1v1 until he gets Phoenix, whereas Jaina has enough burst to defend herself without her heroic and Sylvanas can escape pretty much anyone.
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EPT
