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http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/19067455
I'm not sure how the forum is handling new patches if we want a new thread each time or just talk about it in general.
Overall I don't see anything here that jumps out to me. It seems like they're trying to make auto-attacks a tad more talent-able by making focused attacks and follow-through a bit more powerful. ETC got a deserved nerf. He basically lost most of his damage but gained back some sustain. Diablo got moved over from being an HP sponge to being a leech focused tank. I'll have to play with both to get a better impression.
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I like the new ETC, the CC are realz...
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I'm glad that Blizzard is buffing the damage of the less-tanky warriors. It should create a real role for them.
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On May 13 2015 00:27 xDaunt wrote:
I'm glad that Blizzard is buffing the damage of the less-tanky warriors. It should create a real role for them.
Yeah agreed. It seems like they're trying to really make a division between the tank-tanks and the damage-tanks. I don't know if damage-tanks will ever be completely viable but at least they'll fill a tweener role between melee assassin and tank-tank. So far the history of the best tanks in the game are those who have the damage of a brawler and the sustain of a real tank (Arthas, ETC are the two that come to mind immediately.) The only issue maybe that it will be required to select a tank-tank for your team leaving there only a real handful of these available like Diablo, Muradin, ETC. Crusader appears to be a pure tank as well.
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On May 13 2015 00:34 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 00:27 xDaunt wrote:
I'm glad that Blizzard is buffing the damage of the less-tanky warriors. It should create a real role for them. Yeah agreed. It seems like they're trying to really make a division between the tank-tanks and the damage-tanks. I don't know if damage-tanks will ever be completely viable but at least they'll fill a tweener role between melee assassin and tank-tank. So far the history of the best tanks in the game are those who have the damage of a brawler and the sustain of a real tank (Arthas, ETC are the two that come to mind immediately.) The only issue maybe that it will be required to select a tank-tank for your team leaving there only a real handful of these available like Diablo, Muradin, ETC. Crusader appears to be a pure tank as well.
I don't think having tanks is strictly necessary in all circumstances. Illidan has always been capable of replacing the tank in the right comps (and against the right comps). 2Arc 2-0'd C9V last night with two no-tank compositions. In the second game, Kerrigan was their tank. In part, I think it happened because C9V played badly (particularly in that second game), but I don't see why relying upon someone like Anub or Sonya to be the solo tank is per se bad. Teams already do it with Tyrael now in many dive comps.
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awww mini sylvanas nerf depends how the 3 seconds apply. Muradin got damage buffs thats insane.
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On May 13 2015 00:38 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 00:34 Tenks wrote:On May 13 2015 00:27 xDaunt wrote:
I'm glad that Blizzard is buffing the damage of the less-tanky warriors. It should create a real role for them. Yeah agreed. It seems like they're trying to really make a division between the tank-tanks and the damage-tanks. I don't know if damage-tanks will ever be completely viable but at least they'll fill a tweener role between melee assassin and tank-tank. So far the history of the best tanks in the game are those who have the damage of a brawler and the sustain of a real tank (Arthas, ETC are the two that come to mind immediately.) The only issue maybe that it will be required to select a tank-tank for your team leaving there only a real handful of these available like Diablo, Muradin, ETC. Crusader appears to be a pure tank as well. I don't think having tanks is strictly necessary in all circumstances. Illidan has always been capable of replacing the tank in the right comps (and against the right comps). 2Arc 2-0'd C9V last night with two no-tank compositions. In the second game, Kerrigan was their tank. In part, I think it happened because C9V played badly (particularly in that second game), but I don't see why relying upon someone like Anub or Sonya to be the solo tank is per se bad. Teams already do it with Tyrael now in many dive comps.
Yeah good point
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They've basically redone Warrior classes (look at majority of them had complete overhauls on talents this patch).
Either way, I'm getting Kael'thas so I don't really care what Blizzard does. I rarely play Warrior and even when I do, its always Sonya because shes more of a DPS beast anyways.
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Just doing some theorycrafting here but I wonder if Muaradin maybe an extremely deadly dueler now. They gave him his executioner so he does 75% (!!) more damage to CC'd targets. Muradin is already the king of CC. Take Battle Momentum instead of Skull Cracker at 7 (Avatar already stuns for you) then possibly Thunder or Burning at 13 then his Executioner at 16. I could see him doing some really beastly damage.
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That's lvl 16 though for Muradin, you will be deciding that vs StoneForm.
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Yeah it's damage vs healing, and I've never felt confident without Stoneform.
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I think Raynor's buffs are well deserved. He still seems relatively boring though.
Gazlowe got a ton of mini buffs and mini nerfs. I wonder if it'll change how he plays at all, or if they generally cancel out.
I think the Murky egg buff is unnecessary. I like the idea of the egg being in vulnerable positions or needing to remember to place one.
I have no idea why Sylvanas got a new talent option. I wish her passive would have received a small nerf.
Jump and Longboat nerfs for TLV... they seem to be my main atm so we'll see how big a deal that is.
Holy crap Diablo is changing big time. I wonder why though? I like the idea of revamping some of the non-Diablo non-ETC warriors to make them more appealing, but I don't see why Diablo needs a makeover. Similarly, ETC changes confuse me.
Players will no longer enter an infinite rejoin loop if both Cores are destroyed simultaneously, and victory will be assigned to one team at random.
I'd much rather have some sort of sudden death mode... perhaps just both teams and the core of each team with a short distance between bases.
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Mexico2170 Posts
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On May 13 2015 02:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I have no idea why Sylvanas got a new talent option. I wish her passive would have received a small nerf.
The old Follow Through has been buffed to 40% bonus damage, and since it is especially strong on Sylvanas (due to her Q) she keeps the old version with a new name.
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On May 13 2015 02:17 Big G wrote:
Yeah it's damage vs healing, and I've never felt confident without Stoneform.
Muradin will be the new Illidan. Give him some tass shield and an AH and he'll solo the entire team!
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On May 13 2015 02:48 [Phantom] wrote:
Is the game live yet ?
Looks like it was extended another hour until 3pm EST
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Kael can 1-shot Arthas with a combo at level 20.
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On May 13 2015 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
Kael can 1-shot Arthas with a combo at level 20.
Good to know that's already been discovered within like an hour of him being released hahahaha.
Does he 1-shot combo squishier characters who have better fleeing abilities?
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On May 13 2015 04:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
Kael can 1-shot Arthas with a combo at level 20. Good to know that's already been discovered within like an hour of him being released hahahaha. Does he 1-shot combo squishier characters who have better fleeing abilities?
As long as they blink or dash out of the flamestrikes, they can survive. Still, it's a shitton of damage.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On May 12 2015 23:28 Tenks wrote:
I'm not sure how the forum is handling new patches if we want a new thread each time or just talk about it in general.
Prefer a new thread each time, this is good 
Big patch D:
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Mexico2170 Posts
Every time they update the interface I like it even less...The bottom right part of it is so ugly now <.<
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ok and I thought Jaina did a lot of damage...... that new hero is ridiculous. I was ETC and at lvl 20 he almost killed me ROFL.
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It takes about 5 seconds or so for Kael to dump all of his damage. Burst healing will be really important against him.
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Is the mechano spider available to purchase now?
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i guess the eu server is upgrading ? says hero store unavailable and can't play a game. Still shows Sylv on the home page too.
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On May 13 2015 04:42 xDaunt wrote:
It takes about 5 seconds or so for Kael to dump all of his damage. Burst healing will be really important against him.
This. The numbers aren't incredibly impressive, but fuck he can string shit together, especially if you talent it correctly. The Phoenix has a ridiculous attack speed and Pyroblast hits like a truck + has a nice AoE effect and a low CD. Plus, if you talent for it, you can just roll Living Bombs all day long in team fights. It's absolutely insane. I got a 5 kill combo on a team with TLV by Pyroblasting TLV + Flamestriking them + Living Bomb on another enemy player. TLV dropped, everyone else spread, and then kills just kept popping up because Living Bomb just kept on goin'.
His only problem is that he has absolutely no 1v1 game and no survivability. He's like Jaina, except that his stun has a long CD and is hard to aim. All of his strength lies in team fights. His damage is also more spread out/less bursty, so it's more susceptible to a quality enemy healer.
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The shop layout is pretty cool, but what's the difference between a Rare Skin and an Epic Skin?
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Mexico2170 Posts
Rare skin is a normal skin and the epic is the one that changes either voices or abilties.
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On May 13 2015 06:22 [Phantom] wrote:
Rare skin is a normal skin and the epic is the one that changes either voices or abilties.
Ahhh gotcha. Thanks!
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I like the patch, good changes.
ETC, nerfed a fair bit. New manacosts are a buff as guitar hero is the ony you use most and on a rotation of all 3 spells you spend the same but all those times you just want to recoup some life you spend much less mana. The real hurt is the loss of echo pedal and the old version of guitar hero, they provided a bit a decent waveclear option and pretty good focus damage. The option at lvl 4 looks particularely unexciting now and lvl 7 follow through looks alright but isn't close to what guitar hero did. Stage dive get's a nice buff but without echo pedal and guitar hero a splitpushing ETC just does much less.
Losing the speed bonus at 13 is a bit of a loss too but I think the gap with the other options isn't that big here.
Lvl 16 echo pedal is a slightly buffed version but at that point in the game it's not as interesting anymore and not having stoneskin or imposing presence is huge. Some of the the lvl 20 talents look great though although I did like hardened skin a lot. Overall despite getting better mana and ultimates I think the huge hit in talent quality at lvl 4 and 7 will take him down considerable.
Diablo, get's less of a nerf I feel. The soul feast talent got much weaker, if you want the same you need to spend a talent at 1 and 7 both now (but only get a little more) but block or perhaps even the shadow charge upgrade are decent still. Especially in cases where soul feast wasn't spectacular anyway this isn't much of a hit. Amplified healing gone at 4 is substantial but I really like fiery devil at that tier now, I think it can add what echo pedal did for ETC and provide some really nice waveclear early with just decent damage later. It's basically burning rage when you turn it which is quite sweet that early. The new talents at 7 seem lackluster but battle momentum is still fine there i think. What I really like are the lvl 13 talent changes, the worse version of first aid is lackluster but a slightly nerfed version of firestorm there looks great. Being able to get that and get imposing presence still should be sweet. Finally an AoE version of blood for blood looks really good, have to test how large the area of effect will be though. All in all a marginal hp nerf and the loss of some good hp/sustain talents but the damage talents diablo get's in return make it only a small nerf I think although it will be trickier to dive hard with him without the hp and heal buff.
Muradin buff looks alright, opens his builds a bit more. I think often it will remain the same so just a tiny autoattack boost but having the option to counter heroes relying on autoattack better now looks sweet as does doing more damage with the executioner version which is really easy to trigger although still inferior to stoneform perhaps.
Wouldn't be surprised if he is suddenly #1 tank now along with Chen as the nerfs to ETC and Diablo are large enough to dethrone them I think, especially ETC.
Sonya changes I like too, slightly less dominant for healing in lanes but should be much better in combat now. I think a spear build with the new mystical spear at 13 looks very interesting as you finally have a solid escape then, even with extra range if you need. The furious blow talent is not really intersting to take anymore but i don't think it was that great to begin with, besides slam does ~20% damage more now anyway so you basically got half the talent for free now without the fury hassle. With it the fury shot talent at 1 may not even be mandatory anyway especially if you get reduced cooldown on spear for generating easier, perhaps the larger fury bank or healing on attack talent is even interesting then which could be pretty sweet with wrath of the berserker and focussed attack. Definately want to test her most, think she could be great and i'd love to see bruiser become more playable.
That super version of follow through on nova looks damn good though, that is such a must pick now, 250% attack with super slow attack speed or 180% after an ability? Q - attack - W - attack looks pretty scary on her again, can even top it off with hologram somewhere for even more power.
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I don't know they left this out in the patch notes, but Tassadar's LV.20 Archon upgrade talent got nerfed from 50% boosts to 35%.
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Mexico2170 Posts
First impressions of Kael'Thas:
He is very strong  his trait could add a lot of depth to him, and when you use it in your combo is interesting too. He seems to be very well designed with different talents that from the games I've played with him, seem very viable. Of course, eventually there will be one most popular build as always, but that doesn't mean the rest of his talents will be bad.
Phoenix seemed underwhelming to me, I believe even pyroblast deals more aoe damage, altough in a shorter area.
Pyroblast is not that great though. It can be interrupted and if you run far way enough while kaelthas cast it you can cancel it. Basically you need to surprise the enemy to be effective. I preddict this will be a noob stomper ability, but will not be the favored heroic on competitive play. (Could be wrong though).
It also seems to me it is one of those heroes where you can really out play your oponents, and because he has a small health pool and no escape he is not that easy to use. Overall great hero.
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On May 13 2015 12:50 [Phantom] wrote:First impressions of Kael'Thas: He is very strong his trait could add a lot of depth to him, and when you use it in your combo is interesting too. He seems to be very well designed with different talents that from the games I've played with him, seem very viable. Of course, eventually there will be one most popular build as always, but that doesn't mean the rest of his talents will be bad. Phoenix seemed underwhelming to me, I believe even pyroblast deals more aoe damage, altough in a shorter area. Pyroblast is not that great though. It can be interrupted and if you run far way enough while kaelthas cast it you can cancel it. Basically you need to surprise the enemy to be effective. I preddict this will be a noob stomper ability, but will not be the favored heroic on competitive play. (Could be wrong though). It also seems to me it is one of those heroes where you can really out play your oponents, and because he has a small health pool and no escape he is not that easy to use. Overall great hero.
Both heroic abilities are actually extremely strong. While Phoenix doesn't hit for a lot, his attack speed is absurdly fast, and at high levels, he's attacking maybe 3 times a second for over 200 damage per attack. Phoenix also only has a forty second cooldown, so if you use it a lot, you can really get a lot of mileage out of it. Pyroblast also has a short cooldown, and once it's cast, it's fire-and-forget and cannot miss. Using it to open a battle can really do a lot of damage.
I do agree that Phoenix is definitely better. KT doesn't have much of any 1v1 potential or ability to escape. All of his strength lies in team fights and killing minions. However, once you get Phoenix, you can absolutely wreck face. Phoenix completely turns the tide of battle with its extremely high DPS, and combined with some Gravity Lapse - Verdant Sphered-Flamestrikes, you can dish out an insane amount of AoE damage. Phoenix also allows you to defend yourself 1v1, especially against gank heroes like Nova/Illidan. With such a short cooldown, you can just throw it out, throw out all of your burst, and, even if you die, your attacker will almost definitely die as well. The low cooldown also allows you to throw out the Phoenix when you need to defend your base from mercenaries/bosses or attack forts/cores.
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Has anyone tried Anub'arak yet? I'm curious if his beetles actually don't suck now and if a beetle-build is actually viable. I liked the hero in theory when I tried him in the free-to-play rotation. But his weak healthpool and his crappy trait made me hesitant to buy him with gold.
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Tried Anub. He's got a spot now, don't think he's T1 or anything, but prolly T2 stuff. The beetle change is pretty big, never realized how much you were missing out on with dumb beetles. The Q and E change seem like the bigger thing. If you have any ranged poke like Jaina you can just throw out Q every time it's on C/D and if it hits they will take a lot of dmg. Now it's not easy to dodge.
Was interesting, I was so used to the Q and E windups I was overshooting my targets all the time at 1st because i was leading them too much.
Was running this on globe friendly maps (Garden, Tomb, Cursed, etc): http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/anubarak#t5iR
On maps like Mines where stacking sucks I just swapped lvl 1 for Q range or Beetle dmg. If you use your beetles, shield, and ult right you are a long ranged mini-arthas for 10s, it's actually really promising.
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Kaelthas feels pretty insane, definately a glass cannon but so much damage and with a stun you got a bit of leverage to save yourself, it's a bit like playing jaina but you just need to be more careful.
He is a little mana hungry but just using the trait for his W mostly in lane you can conserve it pretty well.
As for his talents:
Level 1. Fel infusion, it gives you about ~7% of his hp on every activation of his trait which I feel you want to spam anyway, just trait + W whenever you can and you have nice lane presence while conserving his mana. If you really want to clear a wave faster you throw in a trait + Q. Keeping your health topped is important on a squishy like this.
Mana addict feels pretty useless, it doesn't help your regeneration at all and that's the limiting factor more instead of his maximum mana, i guess there is a cute interaction with his lvl 16 arcane barrier but that's not worth i think. especially as kaelthas doesn't want to expose himself to pick up globes anyway. Convection feels lousy, 20% damage buff on a spell conditional on having it stunned is marginal as the stun isn't easy to get off on the target you want often anyway, if you're going to use the trait to make sure you land the stun on a single target you waste more damage then if you just used the trait to buff the flamestrike. Energy roil doesn't feel worth it, the Q is so mana intensive you won't be using it too much early anyway except for garanteed kills.
Level 4. Envenom usualy, always solid although a squishier character like KT has more problems getting into the range. Still good. Gathering power is fine too depends a bit how many stacks you think you'll walk around as, without escapes it's pretty hard to survive every combat as KT, sometimes it's just better perhaps to nuke as much as possible and die taking more enemies with you in the process. Mana tap is too conditional, killing enemies with flamestrike is too much effort to set up nicely just to get some mana, i'd rather just conserve mana and use the free living bombs to clear waves easily. Nether wind is a decent option too I suppose but I feel the E is one you won't use too much and not oftne with the trait and I'd rather just get the solid envenom.
Level 7. Fission bomb. The bonus on the splash damage is nice although the splash damage isn't that great to begin with but it's pretty nice as Living bomb should be your most spammed spell because of it being free and without cooldown on trait usage and there are some nice talents later that add living bombs all over the place.
Sunfire enchantment is okayish too but it basically let's 1 basic attack do double damage after every trait usage but kaelthas basic attack is fairly mediocre. It's pretty similar to static charge in that way for tassadar which almost doubles tass' poor basic attack but you can activate that much more and you have the neat interaction with archon later. I think the better aoe damage on living bomb wins out here.
Trioptimal I have to try more yet, the obvious interaction is to start off a fight with D-E to stun 3 heroes and have your trait reset immediately to D-Q after, I'll just have to test more if you can reliably set this up. Seems they need to be clumped up to get this off reliably but those are also the same cases where fission bomb is nice and fission bomb adds nice manafree waveclear too. Also you probably have to couple this with the nether wind talent at 4, but I'm not sure I like that.
Clairvoyance can always be decent but the oppurtunity cost is too big here as other talents are fine I feel so I don't like it here, other heroes should be able to take a scouting talent with less oppurtunity cost on your team if you need it.
Lvl 10. Phoenix is fantastic I think and a clear winner I feel. The cooldown is just so low. Pyroblast requires too long of a channeling I feel and it isn't always easy to start a fight with it but you really want to use it right away. And when you do use it right away they might simply disengage, heal the damage easily and you're on a 80 second cooldown. Phoenix however with the low cooldown has so much utility, it's a fine teamfight spell that in longer fights you can even throw twice and you can afford to use it on towers and mercs if you're sure a teamfight isn't about to break out right away. It does have a bit of a stupid AI, for example I noticed it targets walls instead of towers often but as long it prioritizes heroes it's fine.
Lvl 13. I like Chain bomb so far, coupled with fission bomb you got amazing waveclear free of charge now by just casting a living bomb on the caster of the pack, which then get's living bomb on the entire pack and clears it, while you can run away already in the meanwhile as you don't need to be near to get xp as long as your spells deal the finishing blow. In teamfights it's alright too as with ignite on lvl 16 you'll be applying so many living bombs they can't avoid all the chaining especially as some repeated application of living bomb just causes the aoe and chain effect to hit right away.
Flamethrower feels good too but your range on flamestrike is already the longest of your spells so if you engage you get to throw flamestrikes anyway. It does provide great poke with ignite later though so if you have posturing fights for ground, for example like often happens on cursed hollow, this does provid great poke potential as a long range flamestrike with trait that applies living bomb is pretty fearsome. Especially great when they lack good heal.
Pyromaniac I'm not a fan off, cooldowns are already pretty low for KT and mana is often more a problem than his cooldowns for his basic abilities. Spell shield can be a must perhaps vs a heavy dive comp with tyrael etc.
Lvl 16. Ignite is insane, basically doubles the damage on flamestrike which is huge. Gravity throw and backdraft pale in comparison. Arcane barrier is one of the few defensive talents KT has so worth a look, at lvl 20 your mana is about 20% of your hp (700 mana, ~3500 hp) so you get a 40% hp shield but your hp is very low of course so this is like a slightly improved stoneskin on heroes where stoneskin is pretty weak. Of course you could build up massive shields combined with the talent at lvl 1 but I don't like taking a crappy talent at 1 just for a combo at lvl 16, especially as i don't want to be forced to pick up health globes as a squishy and the shield lasts just 3 seconds. Rather build a team that can protect kaelthas and just let kaelthas pick the insane damage talents.
Lvl 20. Bolt of the storm is too good to pass up on a hero like this. Like zagara you have no mobility or escapes all game and finally getting something to get out or chase at this point is huge. If you somehow really don't need it i'd go arcane power as I don't like the ult upgrades that much and the mana regain on arcane power is pretty big for KT.
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Wow the flamestrike animation is terrible  looks like chinese fireworks. The Warcraft 3 spell looked way cooler with much more fire and burning. I mean just compare the icon to the actual animation. You cant burn someone like that with the current animation. So weak! Makes me sad as it was one of my favourite spells in wc3.
New shop interface is pretty terrible as well, the hero view is way too zoomed in and only works well with the chars with boobs lol. Look at poor azmodan or gazlow or anub, completely out of frame. Also where are the side scrolling arrows?
Also why does kaelthas face in the icon look like he went a few too many rounds against Pacquiao?
The 'cant click on minimap' option is godlike though <3
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I wish they would have made it an hotkey to click it though. Kaelthas seems to be nice in melee comps that usually don't flee anyway haha. Especially because his living bomb gets people even if they run hehe.
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DPS/Bruiser Muradin is going to be a thing.
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Mura already was thanks to the ranged dd meta. At 20 he jumped besides one stunned hit lick a truck stunned hit like a truck once more and the ranged dd is gone and usually he jumps away again.
I seem to be doing more damage with Sylvanas now with the changed talent ? But I only played really horrible games today, people seem to have gotten really bad in QM.
Won 1 game with a bot even. But enemy taking the Hunt definitely helped. Suddenly everyone was sticking together lol.
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On May 13 2015 23:42 FeyFey wrote:Mura already was thanks to the ranged dd meta. At 20 he jumped besides one stunned hit lick a truck stunned hit like a truck once more and the ranged dd is gone and usually he jumps away again. I seem to be doing more damage with Sylvanas now with the changed talent ? But I only played really horrible games today, people seem to have gotten really bad in QM. Won 1 game with a bot even. But enemy taking the Hunt definitely helped. Suddenly everyone was sticking together lol.
I've always liked Muradin and thought he was underappreciated for what he could do in light of the more popular tank picks. The buffs to him from this patch are finally going to get him noticed.
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I feel like I'm gonna need flashcard for all the Kael'Thas combos. I went in test mode with a buddy to evaluate convection; short of buffing the stun, it seems hard to pull off (DQE is the order to hit during stun). DWW is tons of single target dps with some splash. DE is obviously very situational, and I feel like its generally not gonna work as well. I'm kinda thinking pass on convection and use D mostly on W? But I'm really not sure. Teamfights might help convection.
Also, I'm pretty sure you can't actually outrun the pyroblast; we tried at max range, mounted, and it still went thru all the gates and hit him. Phoenix prolly better tho.
And Muradin is hilarious in avatar mode. No stuns for you, bitch!
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Kael is really, really growing on me.
I always get mana addict at level 1. I tried all of the talents once and like addict the best for a few reasons. First, it essentially doubles your mana pool by the end game -- 400+ extra mana is a lot of extra casts and a lot of extra damage over the course of a fight. Second, addict is always working for you. While convection is, in theory, the better talent for damage, I find it somewhat difficult to reliably hit Kael's pyro/gravity combo. Even when I do hit it, I ask myself... is the extra 20% flamestrike damage worth it? I don't think so.
In theory, I like fel infusion at level one as it increases Kael's survivability, but in practice, I find that if survivability becomes an issue, I'm better off going with arcane barrier. Which brings me to my third reason for always taking mana addict: it allows you the option to spec for arcane barrier and get a powerful shield. Because the shield adds 200% damage, and because you have mana addict, you're adding 1,000 hp to your 45 second shield -- not too bad.
Energy roil, the last talent, could be good if you make Kael into a stun-bot, but his stun is already his most expensive spell at 85 mana. I don't find reducing the cooldown on it to be a better choice than mana addict, fel infusion or convection.
For tier 4 I prefer picking the stun talent. It seems lackluster in comparison to the others, but I've found two things. The first is that a 1.5 second stun feels like forever, and is powerful. The second is that you just barely have enough speed to catch fleeing heroes if you take this talent at level 4. It's definitely not the only way to play Kael, but for my playstyle, it's my favorite talent. It's netted me and my team more than a few kills and seeing how team-oriented Kael is, I always pick it. Gathering power could be really good but it's quite aggressive. It and envenom are obviously viable, but I feel like being able to situationally set up stuns is preferable for me.
At level 7 I improve the living bomb explosion. Kael feels too fragile to me to be doing a lot of auto-attacking, plus I find the timing difficult to work out vs. the payoff. 75% more explosion for what is perhaps your main damage skill? Sure!
I don't have as many thoughts on his ultimates save that both seem viable. I've tried both their lvl 20 versions too which seem viable, but you're always playing riskier without bolt.
At level 13 I always go for the spreading bomb. I tried reducing the cooldowns but it didn't seem as impactful.
And at level 16, I like having a choice to make based on how the game is going. If I'm getting targeted or feel scared, I go for arcane barrier. Otherwise I go for ignite, which is really, really good. The more living bombs you can get off, the more powerful Kael seems to be -- ignite lets you get off multiple bombs simultaneously if you get the opportunity to land a large flamestrike.
-- 1.5 second stun is enough that if you stun someone and immediately cast pyro, you almost always get it off.
-- Casting living bomb on multiple targets instead of just burning your first one leads to a lot of damage. I like using verdant spheres, living bombing the enemies towers, then running.
I feel like there is a burst build waiting out there for Kael'Thas that is just awesome if you can land his combo, garbage if you can't. Like a ranged kerrigan.
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I suspect that taking the stun talents at levels 1 and 4 will be necessary for indirectly boosting Kael's survival. Beyond that, proper positioning is going to be ultra critical for him. Frankly, I think that Kael simply has to stay out of sight until a teamfight begins or he will be dived on and killed. Heroes like Zeratul and Nova are going to be nightmares for him to deal with.
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Mexico2170 Posts
You cannot out run the pyroblast, you can however, as kaelthas is channeling it, run away from him and if you get far enough you'll cancel it as if you had stunned him, putting the ability in a 10 second cool down. There is an indicator of this range when kalethas casts it.
I haven't found much trouble casting the combo. You just use your skills and that's it, you may have to predict a little where the enemy heroes will move by I don't think that is hard to do since most players are predictable.
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How long does it take until Kael'Thas is only 10'000? :o
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2 weeks I think if my memory isn't failing me right now on the past. And damn ETC healer with a moving moshpit. Uther just got replaced.
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Why do you think about Raynor changes? At first I thought that Jaina will be my main char. Than i realized how bad I am at dealing with women. Maybe i need a simple r-click character?
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Does anyone know a good stats page? I have the feeling that Kael is a lot less fragile than I expected him to be (on the same level as Jaina and Sylv) and wanted to check if this is just a feeling (prob due to his stun boosting his survivability) or if it is actually based on stats.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On May 14 2015 04:38 ACrow wrote:
Does anyone know a good stats page? I have the feeling that Kael is a lot less fragile than I expected him to be (on the same level as Jaina and Sylv) and wanted to check if this is just a feeling (prob due to his stun boosting his survivability) or if it is actually based on stats.
We've got all the hero stats on liquipedia and it shows that Kael'thas is within 20 health of Sylvanas while Jaina is weaker than both.
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I think I figured out why Raynor got an increased push back. His new mobility boosts basically makes it the same if you chase someone, so they have atleast a chance to escape him xD. Think I like it more, though you can easy save your opponent by accident.
Oh and Kael'thas and Slyvanas have a great line if they meet. But the bug on the testing map where you can make infinite phoenix is super fun.
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On May 14 2015 01:25 xDaunt wrote:
I suspect that taking the stun talents at levels 1 and 4 will be necessary for indirectly boosting Kael's survival. Beyond that, proper positioning is going to be ultra critical for him. Frankly, I think that Kael simply has to stay out of sight until a teamfight begins or he will be dived on and killed. Heroes like Zeratul and Nova are going to be nightmares for him to deal with.
I haven't tried the lvl 1 stun talent yet but agreed on the level 4 one.
Playing a little more Kael, I think one of my favorite parts are how his ultimates are both sub-60 second cooldowns. He really feels like a different hero in the sense that you can cast phoenix ALL the time. Pushing lanes? Fighting a boss? It's a 40 second cooldown, why not! Obviously this can be taken too far, but compared to other ultimates, Kael's REALLY feel like a part of his kit.
How do you guys use verdant spheres? I note the lvl 1 stun CD reduction could be pretty damn good with the CD reduction, basically if you hit three targets, you have a 4 second CD on your stun. So that talent hasn't really fit my playstyle as of yet.
I virtually always just cast the free living bomb and only situationally use the triple stun or the large flamestrike.
How do you guys strategize your verdant sphere uses? Any cool uses you've found?
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God dammit, the mechano spider mount doesn't even show up in the mount selection area anymore.
Just release the damn mount Blizzard .
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On May 14 2015 04:43 Valiver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 04:38 ACrow wrote:
Does anyone know a good stats page? I have the feeling that Kael is a lot less fragile than I expected him to be (on the same level as Jaina and Sylv) and wanted to check if this is just a feeling (prob due to his stun boosting his survivability) or if it is actually based on stats. We've got all the hero stats on liquipedia and it shows that Kael'thas is within 20 health of Sylvanas while Jaina is weaker than both.
KT doesn't have the escapability of those two heroes though. I've found he's easy to pick off if not properly protected. And in QM that happens a lot.
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KT is dying left and right in the QM matches I've seen him.
No escapes and since he's new, a lot of players underestimate how fragile he is.
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On May 14 2015 21:16 Thezzy wrote:
KT is dying left and right in the QM matches I've seen him.
No escapes and since he's new, a lot of players underestimate how fragile he is.
Not much worse than jaina really, who is even more fragile. Jaina has a bit of slow to kite opponents but KT has a fairly lengthy stun so they are pretty much the same there. The ranges are pretty similar too, jaina even has slightly lower range on her cone. Nothing special to keep KT alive, just the lack of a sprint/ice block talent at 13 makes it pretty tricky if you get targeted in teamfights at that stage.
What's more frustating though is the allies that don't understand chain bomb. So many tanks spreading it to allies without separating and it can hurt pretty damn badly.
I'm mostly puzzled by why so many players take the improved mana talent though.. Don't see what the use of it is since you rarely get full mana anyway in a match, and if you have you have plenty for a teamfight for a teamfight later anyway. If you plan on comboing it with the lvl 16 talent sure go ahead but otherwise it has almost no use except granting a bit of mana on picking up a health globe which is almost neglectible.
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On May 14 2015 22:57 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 21:16 Thezzy wrote:
KT is dying left and right in the QM matches I've seen him.
No escapes and since he's new, a lot of players underestimate how fragile he is. Not much worse than jaina really, who is even more fragile. Jaina has a bit of slow to kite opponents but KT has a fairly lengthy stun so they are pretty much the same there. The ranges are pretty similar too, jaina even has slightly lower range on her cone. Nothing special to keep KT alive, just the lack of a sprint/ice block talent at 13 makes it pretty tricky if you get targeted in teamfights at that stage. What's more frustating though is the allies that don't understand chain bomb. So many tanks spreading it to allies without separating and it can hurt pretty damn badly. I'm mostly puzzled by why so many players take the improved mana talent though.. Don't see what the use of it is since you rarely get full mana anyway in a match, and if you have you have plenty for a teamfight for a teamfight later anyway. If you plan on comboing it with the lvl 16 talent sure go ahead but otherwise it has almost no use except granting a bit of mana on picking up a health globe which is almost neglectible.
Jaina has a number of ways to slow/freeze the opponent, as well as Ice Block, which is a fantastic defensive ability. KT has one stun that is 1) Hard to aim, 2) has a long cool down, 3) moves slowly unless you talent for it, and 4) can easily be sucked up by other targets unless you have a D available to use on it. KT is also a mana hog compared to Jaina and his stun is his most expensive ability.
KT is obviously quite a bit more fragile than Jaina, but he can also string out some insane burst, even moreso than Jaina can.
as for the mana talent, it can really be a boost to 1) his sustain, since he's such a mana hog and it will allow you to stay out on the map longer (I've gotten upwards of 600-700 extra max mana throughout the game, which is far from negligible), and 2) it has good synergy with his shield talent that gives you 200% of your max mana as a shield. It's not entirely useless, but I do agree that other talents are more useful.
KT doesn't have the escapability of those two heroes though. I've found he's easy to pick off if not properly protected. And in QM that happens a lot.
KT is also useless 1v1 until he gets Phoenix, whereas Jaina has enough burst to defend herself without her heroic and Sylvanas can escape pretty much anyone.
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EPT
