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Sylvanas Patch Notes Commentary & Analysis

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
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GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 05:16:06
April 01 2015 14:24 GMT
#1
Sylvanas

Patch Notes


Commentary and Analysis
by Oxygen


Sylvanas has no time for games, and neither do I! Why, someone has to analyze the latest Heroes of the Storm patch notes from a high level point of view. Let’s get to it.

Disclaimer: I’m not a wizard. Things change very quickly early on with new patches, and as such, most of the meta-gaming discussion is conjectural


  • In-game XP Changes
    • The in-game leveling curve has been adjusted slightly to slow down the first 10 team levels, though the amount of XP required to reach level 20 remains the same.

Structures
  • Gate, Tower, Town Hall, and Wall Health reduced by approximately 10%.



I have the distinct feeling that these two changes go hand in hand. Weaker structures cause you to level up more rapidly, as the experience they provide is simply easier and faster to collect. And as such, our devs must have decided to decelerate early experience gains to “even it out”. Of course, this is hard to 100% correlate because they didn’t deem essential to provide us with numbers.

The potential reasons behind the changes still make for an interesting discussion.
Were games becoming too long? Weaker structures objectively make individual rounds end faster because, well, you can just win (or lose!) faster. However, when we compare game length data from last week with, say, data from last November, we can that there isn’t much of an increase - only ~20 seconds on average. Still, it could’ve been decided that games were lasting too long anyway, notwithstanding any old data. Doubtful, though.

Were “pushers” falling out of favor? Let’s have a look at our big five: Abathur, Azmodan, Gazlowe, Sgt. Hammer and Zagara. We’ll leave Sylvanas out of the contest because I can’t invent data. Last week, the popularity rates for these Heroes were 1.4%, 1.0%, 0.8%, 5.4% and 4.4%, respectively. In other words, only Sgt. Hammer and Zagara were getting reasonable representation, and something tells me that this isn’t exclusively due to their PvE potential. What about their popularity rates, say, back in November? 3.6%, 3.5%, 2.5%, 1.6% and 2.5%, respectively. Even Gazlowe, one of the least popular picks, saw about twice the amount of play. On average, they saw more play. We all remember the popular Abathur-Azmodan cancer push. You just don’t really see anything like that anymore. Perhaps that the introduction of Sylvanas (a pusher!) was a convenient opportunity to review examine how pushers were faring as a whole.

Tl;dr: Pushing Heroes were falling out of favor. Structures are now weaker to improve their appeal, and experience rates were slightly reduced early on to do so without upsetting game balance.


Dragon Shire
  • Player-controlled Dragon Knights are now more resistant to disable effects.


Garden of Terror
  • Player-controlled Garden Terrors are now more resistant to disable effects.



By design, map objectives need be impactful. Their purpose is both to create hot-spots for Hero combat and provide powerful channels to influence game state. The Dragon Knight and Garden Terror could feel extremely unrewarding, being dominated by crowd control-heavy team compositions. This should assuage the issue.


Haunted Mines
  • Grave Golem Health and damage will no longer scale after either of the following conditions have been met:
    • The Haunted Mines have been open for at least 4 minutes
    • 60 Skulls have been collected
    • This change has been made in order to prevent situations in which a team would leave a single skull in the Haunted Mines in order to gain more Golem power.

  • The power difference between Lane Golems has been reduced in situations where there is a large skull-count disparity.
    • High skull-count Lane Golem Health has been slightly reduced.
    • The first round of Lane Golems have had their Health reduced.



Poor Haunted Mines, getting slammed with changes every other patch. The general consensus with the map is that it’s “too snowbally”. Which is just another way of saying that early advantages too often translated into victories. And it showed in game length stats: On average, Haunted Mines games ended between two and four minutes faster than other maps.

So, what do we have here? Nothing too fancy: weaker early Golems, less disparity between Golem health, and the inability to capitalize on “skull hoarding”. But you’ve read the patch notes as well as I have, so what does this mean? Let’s not make a muck of things. A weaker Golem means less structure kills. Less structure kills mean less experience and less pushing. Less pushing and less experience mean less disparity between the leading team and the underdog. Games should last longer, opening wider windows for comebacks.

Garden of Terror
  • Player-controlled Garden Terrors are now more resistant to disable effects.
  • Movement Speed reduced to equal Hero Movement Speed
  • Overgrowth (W)
    • Overgrowth Health increased by 25%
    • Now receives additional Health bonuses past the 15 minute mark
    • Now deals 70 (+7 per minute) damage each tick to Minions and Mercenaries instead of 20% of their Maximum Health. This is the same as the Structure damage.




So, we’ve discussed the impact of the Garden Terror’s crowd control resistance, but that’s not all there is to it. Before the patch, there were basically two (and a half) “correct” ways of using the Terror.

#1 involved kiting around and between two Forts or Keeps and dropping pots (Overgrowth) where enemy Heroes weren’t around to take them out.

#2 involved obtuse team fighting techniques, setting sights on a vulnerable/high value target and right clicking them to either push them out of the fight or kill them, all whilst using the Spore Queen’s Curse to interrupt valuable channeled skills and generally disrupt.

“#2.5” had you secure more seeds - which wasn’t really optimal, though sometimes proved necessary, given the Terror’s relatively useless skills outside of the situations described above.

Both #1 & #2 were frustrating to deal with, but on different levels. Chasing a 12,000-something health pool Terror to clean Overgrowths up felt like anything but a chore, and I’ve discussed a few patches ago how Heroes without an escape skill were overly vulnerable to the Terror’s attacks. Reducing its movement speed will go a long way towards alleviating both of these frustrating aspects. It only makes sense now to improve the Terror’s Health to compensate.

Another thing to note is how inefficient the Terror was at sieging guarded positions. It really felt like it couldn’t soak as much damage as it should, and Overgrowth had a tendency to not really do too much. Let’s see how the buffs fare.
Last but not least: Overgrowth not instantly trivializing Mercenaries is certainly not a bad thing.

Sky Temple
  • Temple damage reduced by 10%



Structures now have 10% less health as well, so this checks out. Moving on….


Healing Ward
  • Duration increased from 10 to 15 seconds
  • Heal amount reduced from 3% to 2% of max Health per second



With a pick rate of 85% to 99% the week prior to the patch, Healing Ward was a strong contender for the most over-picked support talent in the game. And rightly so: the wooden pole was as strong as it was polarizing - and will remain a top pick in spite of the nerfs. While its overall healing remains the same, the longer duration will not only offer more room for counterplay (read: killing the ward), but also make it less effective as a raw team fight healing tool.


Ice Block
  • Cooldown reduced from 80 to 60 seconds



Ice Block saw some very niche popularity on Malfurion, while being pretty much overshadowed in pick rates on Brightwing, Jaina and Nazeebo. Sprint just has that versatility Ice Block can never really offer, and I suspect the only reason it is ever picked on Malfurion is that he doesn’t have Sprint as a choice in the first place. The cooldown reduction is nice (it’s now on par with Sprint!) but does little to address its usability issues. I highly doubt it’ll be enough to beat the 1-to-95 pick rate for Nazeebo.


Scouting Drone
  • Now has 2 charges
  • Duration reduced from 60 to 45 seconds
  • Cooldown reduced from 60 to 45 seconds
  • Placement range increased from 3 to 4
  • The number of hits required to destroy a Scouting Drone have been increased from 1 to 2.



Look! It’s a Mutalisk… It’s a new talent… no! It’s Scouting Drone! I’m so sorry, I somehow forgot you existed. I couldn’t honestly tell who actually has access to this talent before looking it up, but here’s the list: Brightwing, ETC, Malfurion, Raynor and Tychus. Arguably, only Tychus has a mandatory level 1 talent pick (Armor Piercing Rounds, at ~98%). Anyone else could make a pretty good candidate to experiment with the Drone. And I predict that there will be experimentation, though only at an extreme level of play - there one where people actually understand the importance of information… and how to capitalize on it. Looking good, Mr. Drone. Your time will come.

ABATHUR
[image loading]
  • Toxic Nest (W)
    • Envenomed Nest (Talent)
      • Damage increased from 30% to 50%

    • Prolific Dispersal (Talent)
      • Now also reduces the cooldown of Toxic Nest by 2 seconds

    • Vile Nest (Talent)
      • Slow increased from 40% to 50%

  • Evolve Monstrosity (R)
    • The Monstrosity now persists until it is killed.

  • Ultimate Evolution (R)
    • Cooldown reduced from 80 to 70 seconds
    • Duration reduced from 30 to 20 seconds
    • Clones now gain 20% Ability Power, 20% Basic Attack Damage, and 10% Movement Speed.



Toxic Net talents have never been very attractive. The skill, in itself, is very much peripheral to Abathur’s gameplay, the core of which is Symbiote, and the icing of which are Locusts. Players agreed: Before the patch, these talents had between ~1% and ~5% pick rates. These rates have quickly grown, up to ~20% in Envenomed Nest’s case. Understandably so; that thing makes very short work of Minion waves, and is generally obnoxious to deal with, especially as Cloaked Heroes. The other choices aren’t quite as popular, mostly because they have to contend with other very competitive picks - Adrenal Overload is godsent, and Vile Nest just doesn’t provide enough to be justified.

As for Heroic choices, some big buffs all around. The implications of a permanent Monstrosity are actually pretty significant: Given that it grows in power over time (5% health and damage per kill, up to 30 stacks), it now has the potential of becoming a lane-crushing threat that must imperatively be answered, and perhaps by more than one Hero. At max stacks, it actually stands to have more health than a tank and damage than an assassin of equal level! Brace yourselves.

The ramifications of Ultimate Evolution’s changes are much harder to gauge. The ultimate point of interest, back in the olden days, for the skill, was the cloning of Heroic skills. This obviously isn’t a feature anymore, and I such, I stand tempted to say that the damage buffs don’t quite make up for the missing Heroic and talents. There’s also the fact that you can’t use Symbiote with your clone, unlike Monstrosity. It’s also really short lived, so you can’t mess up on your timing. Edge to Monstrosity.


AZMODAN
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  • Globe of Annihilation (Q)
    • Taste for Blood (Talent)
      • Now has a maximum damage cap of 500



“Pool” Azmodan has seen quite a bit of play since the Taste for Blood buffs, and I had unsuccessfully predicted that it wouldn’t. Shame on me perhaps, but the trend quickly faded when players figured out that a strong early game team composition could very easily deal with the Lord of Sin’s shenanigans. And here we are, a month later, with a late nerf to an already out-metagamed talent. Not much of a nerf at that; stacks very seldom reached 250 in the first place. And so, why has this change showed up at all? Simply put, I think it promoted a playstyle that was out of line with Blizzard’s desires. Concepts like farming and carrying belong to your other popular titles, and Taste for Blood went against this ideology. And it still does - though only up to a certain point. Which is good.

DIABLO
[image loading]
  • Apocalypse (R)
    • Cooldown reduced from 120 to 100 seconds



Now for a curveball. Although Apocalypse wasn’t exactly an unpopular choice - 10% more picks than Lightning Breath - it did share the spot for longest cooldown in the game with Mosh Pit, Maelstrom and Bloodlust. It is a powerful skill, it is easy to whiff, and it is fun to use. I’m all for a cooldown reduction, although I’m unsure if it was actually warranted.


E.T.C.
[image loading]
  • Fury of the Storm (Talent) replaced with Hardened Shield (Talent)



In the current meta, E.T.C. is broadly considered to be the numero uno tank. Fury of the Storm gave him an interesting yet unexploited pushing niche, but Hardened Shield… is just really good, to the point where it’ll likely easily compete with the also really good Bolt of the Storm. It also seems like a more fitting talent. Not much else to say here.


FALSTAD
[image loading]
  • Basic Attack
    • Damage increased from 34 (+10 per level) to 38 (+10 per level)

  • Barrel Roll (E)
    • Cooldown reduced from 16 to 14 seconds
    • Barrel Roll speed increased by approximately 50%
    • Flow Rider (Talent)
      • Cooldown reduction increased from 35% to 40%

    • Mighty Gust (R)
      • Cost reduced from 100 to 70 Mana
      • Cooldown reduced from 60 to 50 seconds



I can’t help but feel that Falstad was outclassed by Valla in a lot of cases - her damage and utility being simply more reliable. And as such, the gap is now slowly closing. The Barrel Roll changes are actually huge, amounting to an enormous 100% buff, which is to say that it now has half the cooldown it once had, thanks to last patch’s Flow Rider changes. To put things into perspective, it’s like Vault… with 2 seconds less cooldown… and a shield… that goes through obstacles. It’s good.

As for the Mighty Gust changes, well, the skill remains as situational as ever, and as outclassed by Shock a-- Hinterland Blast as ever.


JAINA
[image loading]
  • Arcane Power (Talent) added at Level 20
  • Nexus Fury (Talent) removed
  • Improved Ice Block (Talent)
    • Cooldown reduced from 80 to 60 seconds

  • New Talent (Level 20): Arcane Power
    • Activate to increase spell damage by 15% and restore 400 Mana for 5 seconds

  • Frostbite (Trait)
    • The Chilled effect will now apply to Unstoppable units (such as the Grave Golem), as well as Structures.

  • Frostbolt (Q)
    • Damage increased from 45 (+14 per level) to 50 (+15 per level)

  • Blizzard (W)
    • Damage per wave increased from 40 (+15 per level) to 45 (+16 per level)

  • Cone of Cold (E)
    • Damage increased from 50 (+17 per level) to 55 (+18 per level)



So… now that Jaina is seeing some competitive play, she gets a huge buff! Look at all that damage! Now, if the numbers don’t seem so high, don’t be fooled - Frostbite increases all of them by 50%, and by another 15% while talented. The most notable change however is to Frostbite itself. Jaina’s inability to deal with Mercenaries and Structures was a blaring weakness of hers. It is no more - and she should, in fact, turn into a very potent wall killer.

In my last analysis, I pointed out that Nexus Fury did not belong on Jaina. Blizzard responded (to me personally, I am sure) by replacing it with Arcane Power, a really iconic WoW mage spell. It’s not quite up to Overdrive’s power level (15% damage versus 25%), but it does give you mana instead of sapping it. Will it take over Bolt of the Storm in popularity? Nothing does. Will it see some play? Most definitely. I like the tradeoff, and more talent choices should offer meaningful choices.


KERRIGAN
[image loading]
  • Ultralisk (R)
    • Ultralisk controls now mirror Jaina's Water Elemental.
    • Press R and click the terrain to issue a Move command.
    • Press R and click a unit to issue an Attack command on that target.



Cool.

LI LI
[image loading]
  • Healing Brew (Q)
    • Will no longer heal Abathur’s Ultimate Evolution Clones or Nova’s Holo Decoys
    • Jug of 1,000 Cups (R)
      • Will no longer heal Abathur’s Ultimate Evolution Clones or Nova’s Holo Decoys


I suppose this is fine, given that the clone only lasts for 20 seconds now. Healing Holo Decoys was definitely undesirable.


MURKY
[image loading]
  • Health Regeneration increased from 5 (+0.125 per level) to 10 (+2.4 per level)
  • New Talent (Level 4): Living the Dream!
    • Grants 10% Ability Power, and an additional 1% Ability Power for every 5 seconds that Murky is alive, up to a total of 25% Ability Power. Resets upon death.
    • Spawn Egg (D)
      • Murky’s Egg no longer grants experience to the enemy team or counts as half of a normal Hero Death.
      • Cooldown reduced from 20 to 15 seconds
      • Egg Health increased from 105 (+15 per level) to 110 (+30 per level)
        • Assault Egg (Talent)
        • Bonus to Egg Health reduced from 200% to 150%

    • Slime (Q)
      • Slime's stacking damage now applies to Unstoppable units (such as the Grave Golem).

    • Pufferfish (W)
      • Casting time reduced by 75%


This must be a mistake. Murky buffs? In all seriousness, all of these changes are sound. Pufferfish felt really clunky to use with such a long cast time on a character that otherwise should’ve felt very nimble. Slime received the Frostbite treatment versus Unstoppables and should go towards making Murky feel less useless at times (though barely). The Health Regen is insignificant at best, but the experience changes put him on par with the Lost Vikings in terms of feed. Last but not least, Living the Dream. This is actually one of the more interesting talents to date. Murky typically doesn’t really care all that much about dying, but this certainly changes the Hero’s playstyle - and comes with a hefty reward. Overall, is Murky in a better spot? Yes. But there’s still some work to be done.


NAZEEBO
[image loading]
  • Gidbinn (Talent) no longer increases the duration of Voodoo Ritual
  • Voodoo Ritual (Trait)
    • Specialized Toxin (Talent)
      • Damage bonus from 200% to 100%

  • Plague of Toads (E)
    • Toads of Hugeness (Talent)
      • Bonus damage per hop increased from 10% to 20%

  • Gargantuan (R)
    • Initial damage increased from 35 (+15 per level) to 100 (+20 per level)
    • Initial health reduced from 1400 (+140 per level) to 600 (+220 per level)
    • The Gargantuan A.I. has been improved.
    • The Gargantuan no longer uses Stomp Ability automatically. Instead, Stomp can now be cast manually by pressing “R”, and has a 4.5 second cooldown.

  • Ravenous Spirit (R)
    • The Spirit’s area of effect radius has been reduced by 25%.
    • Damage changed from 25 (+9 per level) to 30 (+8 per level)


Ravenous Spirit was one of the biggest culprits in terms of one-sided pick rates. They tried making Gargantuan more attractive by increasing its Health and making it less dumb, but it probably wasn’t enough - and so, Ravenous Spirit itself had to be hit. Not only does it do less damage, but also is it less reliable. And not only that; Specialized Toxin, oh-so-potent when used together, was hit as well, on top of Gidbinn no longer increasing its duration. So, was the goal met? Will Gargantuan see play? Yes, it will - but Nazeebo, as a whole, will see less play in himself. He’s far from a dead pick, but certainly won’t pack the punch he once did. And for as long as Sprint exists, nobody will care about Toads of Hugeness, by the way. The buff is irrelevant.


RAYNOR
[image loading]
Basic Attack
  • Damage increased from 35 (+11 per level) to 35 (+12 per level)



I’d rather not dignify this change with an analysis.


SGT. HAMMER
[image loading]
  • Health reduced from 770 (+170 per level) to 720 (+140 per level)



Hammer always had an awkwardly high amount of Health to match an… awkwardly high amount of slipperiness. That’s a ~7% nerf at level 1, and a hefty ~15% at level 20. Do keep in mind that less total Health means less overall healing from First Aid as well, a popular pick on her.


SONYA
[image loading]
  • Whirlwind (E)
    • Sonya can now use the following Activated Talents while Whirlwind is channeling:
    • Shot of Fury, Ferocious Healing, Nerves of Steel (formerly Stoneskin), and Ignore Pain (formerly Hardened Shield)



Which is how it was in the first place, some months ago. This is certainly a most welcomed change, especially now that Sonya is starting to see more play.


STITCHES
[image loading]
    Health reduced from 1060 (+260 per level) to 1060 (+230 per level)
  • Vile Gas (Trait)

    • Radius decreased by approximately 25%
    • Damage scaling decreased from +2 per level to +1.5 per level

  • Toxic Gas (Talent)

    • Radius increased from 25% to 50%
    • Damage over time effect duration reduced from 2 to 1 seconds

  • Slam (W)

    • Pulverize (Talent)
      • The stun and bonus damage components of this Talent have been removed.

      • Now reduces cooldown of Slam by 2 seconds

      • Slows enemies hit by 75% for 1 second

  • Gorge (R)

    • Hungry Hungry Stitches (Talent)

      • Duration increased from 1 to 1.5 seconds

      • Now removes the Movement Speed slow from Gorge

  • Putrid Bile (R)

    • Regenerative Bile (Talent)

      • Now increases Movement Speed by an additional 10% while Putrid Bile is active


And more Stitches nerfs that aren’t targeted towards Hook. Why bother? But, in all seriousness now - these are actually quite nice. Vile Gas is just so insidious in that it deals so much “hidden” passive damage that I’m glad to see it take a hit again. As for Pulverize, that thing just hard countered anyone with channeled abilities with very little possible counter play. The new version has some very neat synergy with Vile Gas, Hook and Putrid Bile, which I like. And the reduced cooldown will certainly help players fill the dead time between his other long cooldowns. Cool stuff.


TASSADAR
[image loading]
  • Force Wall (R)

    • Cost reduced from 75 to 35 Mana

    • Force Wall now forms 50% faster


Mark my words, friends: One day, Force Wall’s true power will be revealed. But until then, Archon will keep its 90% pick rate.


THE LOST VIKINGS
[image loading]
  • A Lost Vikings-specific version of the Fury of the Storm Talent has been added at Level 20.

    • Every 5 seconds, the next Basic Attack will deal an additional 10 (+4 per level) damage to the target, and 10 (+11 per level) damage to all nearby Minions and Mercenaries. Each Viking has a separate cooldown.

  • Longboat Raid (R)

    • Damage reduced from 15 (+8 per level) to 15 (+7 per level)


I think that The Lost Vikings were actually supposed to get Fury of the Storm, as shown in the last patch notes, but did not in fact get it. It makes sense now, in hindsight - they would push in such a ridiculous fashion should they have the regular version of the talent. And so, this is what we get instead. This special version is 50% as effective as the regular version… but you get 3 Vikings. Don’t underestimate this.

Regarding Longboat Raid: This is too little of a nerf to actually impact pick rates... and frustration rates. I’m rather surprised this Heroic even exists in its current form, given that our devs have been very aggressive with “second health bars”. Well… sorry, Play Again next patch.

THRALL
[image loading]
  • Frostwolf Resilience (Trait)

    • Scaling heal increased from +23 per level to +30 per level

  • Mana Tide (Talent)

    • Mana restoration reduced from 20 to 15

  • Chain Lightning (Q)

    • Mana cost increased from 35 to 40

    • Scaling damage increased from +15 per level to +17 per level

  • Windfury (E)

    • Cost increased from 50 to 65 Mana

    • Movement Speed bonus increased from 25% to 30%

    • Wind Shear (Talent) moved from Level 1 to Level 7

      • Now reduces Windfury’s cooldown by 4 seconds rather than 3



This is one of the most literal cases of nerf reversals I’ve ever witnessed. Remember these? :

  • Frostwolf Resilience (Trait)

    • Heal amount changed from 49 (+36 per level) to 60 (+23 per level)

  • Chain Lightning (Q)

    • Primary target scaling damage reduced from 17 per level to 15 per level


How has Thrall been lately, by the way? I don’t know, haven’t seen him! Maybe this’ll help, on top of the free rotation week.
And moving on… Onto the Windfury changes, that is. There is a bit of irony here. Thrall undoubtedly has issues with his uptime. Not that this is a bad thing, for he does hit like a truck. However, Wind Shear now competes with Stone Wolves - so you must choose between mobility cooldown and longer roots. The choice is interesting but comes off as an unfortunate and frankly unnecessary nerf. The trend of moving strong talents on the same tier has to stop, by the way. Weaker talents should instead be improved to become more attractive, somewhat like what we’ve seen for Abathur.


TYRANDE
[image loading]
  • A significant number of Tyrande’s Talents have been rearranged.

  • Shroud (Talent) removed

  • Purging Mark (Talent) removed

  • Bolt of the Storm (Talent) removed

  • Focused Attack (Talent) added at Level 4

  • Nexus Frenzy (Talent) added at Level 20

  • Trueshot Aura (Talent) moved from Level 7 to Level 16

  • Basic Attack damage bonus increased from 10% to 15%

  • Attack Speed bonus removed

  • Hunter’s Mark (Trait)

    • Huntress' Fury (Talent) moved from Level 16 to Level 13

    • Mark of Mending (Talent)

      • Heal amount increased from 2% to 2.5% of the attacker’s maximum Health

  • Light of Elune (Q)

    • Cooldown increased from 6 to 8 seconds

    • Self-healing increased from 45 (+10 per level) to 60 (+14 per level)

    • Ally healing increased from 90 (+20 per level) to 120 (+28 per level)

    • Overflowing Light (Talent) moved from Level 4 to Level 13

      • Heal bonus reduced from 40% to 35%

      • Health requirement for Tyrande reduced from 90% to 50%

  • Sentinel (W)

    • Pierce (Talent) moved from Level 1 to Level 4

    • Empower (Talent) moved from Level 4 to Level 1

  • Lunar Flare (E)

    • Radius increased by 20%

    • Lunar Blaze (Talent) moved from Level 13 to Level 7

    • Radius increase removed



It seems to be that our devs are trying to open up a Basic Attack build path for Tyrande. Unfortunately for them, she just doesn’t really have the skillset and raw stats to support this. I have to say that I do, however, appreciate the changes to Light of Elune and Lunar Flare. Before the patch, Light of Elune felt terribly weak. But now, when supported by Overflowing light, the ability actually yields about 30% more healing output than Uther’s Holy Light. That’s nothing to scoff at. As for Lunar Flare, the Lunar Blaze talent dependency was eradicated by simply improving the base ability. We need more changes like this one.


UTHER
[image loading]
  • Uther has received a significant Talent update.

  • Burning Rage (Talent) removed

  • Sprint (Talent) removed

  • Block (Talent) added at Level 1

  • Amplified Healing (Talent) added at Level 4

  • New Talent (Level 7): Holy Fire

    • Deals 8 (+1.6 per level) damage per second to nearby enemies

  • New Talent (Level 16): Benediction
    • Activate to reduce the cost of the next Basic Ability cast by 50 Mana, and its cooldown by 10 seconds.

  • Basic Attack

    • Hammer of the Lightbringer (Talent)

      • Mana restored per hit increased from 5 to 8

  • Eternal Devotion (Trait)

    • Holy Devotion (Talent) removed

    • The functionality of this Trait has changed significantly.
    • Uther can no longer use his Basic Attack or his Abilities while in Eternal Devotion form.

    • Instead, Uther gains a new Ability while in Eternal Devotion form:

      • Flash of Light (Q)

      • Heal an ally for 81 (+22.5 per level) Health. 1.5 second cooldown.

    • New Talent (Level 20): Redemption
      • After Eternal Devotion ends, Uther will resurrect at the location of his spirit with 50% Health. This effect has a 180 second cooldown.

  • Holy Light (Q)

    • Range has been decreased by 12.5%

    • Protect the Weak (Talent) removed

    • Reach (Talent)

      • Now increases the range of Holy Light and Flash of Light by 40%

    • Blessed Champion (Talent) moved from Level 1 to Level 13

    • The functionality of this Talent has changed.

      • After casting Holy Light, the next Basic Attack heals nearby allied Heroes for 30% of Holy Light's healing amount.

    • Holy Shock (Talent) moved from Level 16 to Level 13

      • In addition to its previous effects, Holy Shock now also reduces the cooldown of Holy Light by 4 seconds when it is used to deal damage.

  • Holy Radiance (W)

    • Length reduced by 16%

    • New Talent (Level 4): Boundless Conviction

      • Increases the length and width by of Holy Radiance by 40%

  • Hammer of Justice (E)

    • Dense Weightstone (Talent) removed

    • Rebuke (Talent) removed

    • Fist of Justice (Talent) moved from Level 4 to Level 1

    • New Talent (Level 7): Burden of Guilt

      • After Hammer of Justice's stun fades, the target's Movement Speed is slowed by 30% for 2 seconds.
        Divine Shield (R)

    • Bulwark of Light (Talent) functionality has changed.

      • Uther no longer gains a Divine Shield when using this Talent.

      • Now increases Divine Shield’s duration by 2 seconds and reduces its cooldown by 20 seconds

    • Divine Storm (R)

      • Divine Hurricane (Talent)

        • Bonus to stun radius decreased from 100% to 50%


    And, just as with Raynor, the Uther rework will be featured in another article. Stay tuned!


    VALLA
    [image loading]
    • Battle Momentum (Talent) removed

    • Hatred (Trait)

      • Hot Pursuit (Talent) moved from Level 13 to Level 7

    • Vault (E)

      • Valla is no longer Unstoppable while using Vault.


    Succinct, to the point: Valla has been a prime pick for too long, and removing Battle Momentum is a blow to her most popular build. Searing Attacks is likely to now be the prime pick at level 7.

    The Vault changes are actually part of the ever-so-important “crowd control versus movement” debate that has forever plagued the genre. You are hit by a hard crowd control effect during a dash. What should happen? Before this change, the crowd control skill was denied its effect. Now, it’s the other way around, with Vault being denied its effect. Both situations are problematic because in both cases, there is an arbitrary decision to make one of the skill more important than the other. This is obviously frustrating, as a player, because we inherently expect our buttons to do things when we press them, with the notable exception of interruptible channeled abilities being a well-accepted convention. So, what’s the mature solution here? Simply put: crowd control effects should fully affect their target only after the movement ability has completed its displacement effects. This way, everyone would be happy.


    ZERATUL
    [image loading]
    • [B]Singularity Spike (W[)/b]

      • Double Bombs (Talent)

        • The second bomb now deals 50% damage.


    After a year of unequivocal talent dominance, Double Bombs has been heavy-handedly cuffed. Unfortunately, I’m one to believe that the talent wasn’t the main culprit behind Zeratul’s ridiculous burst damage potential, but rather, a certain level 20 talent that allows one to rapidly chuck four Singularity Spikes in an instant. I certainly wish they’d go back and rewind that specific talent out of Zeratul’s choices.

    Conclusion


    All in all, most of the changes featured in this patch are sound, especially the map-specific changes. Most Heroes are seeing some degree of competitive play on the North American side besides Abathur, Anub’arak, Arthas, Gazlowe, Murky, Raynor and Thrall, making the current meta the most varied we’ve seen to date. The most powerful outliers are seeing reasonable nerfs, though the weaker Heroes seem to need a bit more attention. Regardless, I find this patch to be one of the best ever released.



    Writer: Oxygen
    Graphics: shiroiusagi
    Art Credit: Blizzard
    Editor(s): xDaunt, GMarshal, KadaverBB
    Moderator
    GMarshal
    Profile Blog Joined March 2010
    United States22154 Posts
    April 01 2015 15:42 GMT
    #2
    Boom! :D
    Moderator
    Sponkz
    Profile Joined May 2011
    Denmark4564 Posts
    April 01 2015 16:03 GMT
    #3
    Nice write-up, looking forward to the article about Uther. His bubble is beyond insane right now.
    hi
    RouaF
    Profile Joined October 2010
    France4120 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-04-01 16:14:21
    April 01 2015 16:14 GMT
    #4
    Sylvanas patch... but no sylvanas analysis ! :D
    KobraKay
    Profile Joined March 2010
    Portugal4231 Posts
    April 01 2015 16:18 GMT
    #5
    On April 02 2015 01:14 RouaF wrote:
    Sylvanas patch... but no sylvanas analysis ! :D


    That was my first thought too...but it is understandable, she is new, still a lot of analysis to be done before jumping to conclusions ^^
    CJ Fighting! (--.--)
    Garsecg
    Profile Joined September 2014
    United States129 Posts
    April 01 2015 16:38 GMT
    #6
    The write ups get better and better! Well done guys, very enjoyable read.
    Heyoka
    Profile Blog Joined March 2008
    Katowice25012 Posts
    April 01 2015 16:47 GMT
    #7
    Ooooo very nice.
    @RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
    NihilisticGod
    Profile Joined March 2011
    Northern Ireland174 Posts
    April 01 2015 17:43 GMT
    #8
    Thanks for another great article, I really enjoy your writting style!
    Too weird to live... too rare to die.
    xDaunt
    Profile Joined March 2010
    United States17988 Posts
    April 01 2015 17:54 GMT
    #9
    I've tried to make Evolve Monstrosity work with Abathur, but it just isn't worth it when compared to Ultimate Evolution. The problem with the monstrosity is that it is dumb as a box of rocks when left to its own devices. It requires a bunch of management by the player. What this means is that Abathur has to spend an inordinate amount of time keeping his symbiote on the monstrosity instead of his teammates. This is compounded by the fact that, until level 20, Abathur has to manually move the monstrosity between lanes and keep the symbiote on the monstrosity during the movement period. Given how slow the monstrosity is, the opportunity cost of keeping symbiote on the monstrosity for so long is absolutely crushing.
    739
    Profile Blog Joined May 2009
    Bearded Elder29903 Posts
    April 01 2015 18:18 GMT
    #10
    Now that's the kind of articles I was waiting for, well done and thanks a lot !
    WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
    Tenks
    Profile Joined April 2010
    United States3104 Posts
    April 01 2015 18:37 GMT
    #11
    On April 02 2015 02:54 xDaunt wrote:
    I've tried to make Evolve Monstrosity work with Abathur, but it just isn't worth it when compared to Ultimate Evolution. The problem with the monstrosity is that it is dumb as a box of rocks when left to its own devices. It requires a bunch of management by the player. What this means is that Abathur has to spend an inordinate amount of time keeping his symbiote on the monstrosity instead of his teammates. This is compounded by the fact that, until level 20, Abathur has to manually move the monstrosity between lanes and keep the symbiote on the monstrosity during the movement period. Given how slow the monstrosity is, the opportunity cost of keeping symbiote on the monstrosity for so long is absolutely crushing.


    I think it depends on a few things. The bad thing about Evolution is you simply are not allowed to hat during that 20 second period. Sometimes that is actually a net loss if you have someone like a Zeratul or Illidan on your team where you can do absolute work with the 25% haste and spamming your PBAOE. But if you are mostly ranged DPS (like a Tychus/Valla as your assassin crew) evolution is probably the better choice here.
    Wat
    Oxygg
    Profile Joined October 2014
    Canada42 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-04-01 20:26:12
    April 01 2015 20:25 GMT
    #12
    On April 02 2015 01:03 Sponkz wrote:
    Nice write-up, looking forward to the article about Uther. His bubble is beyond insane right now.



    On April 02 2015 01:38 Garsecg wrote:
    The write ups get better and better! Well done guys, very enjoyable read.



    On April 02 2015 02:43 NihilisticGod wrote:
    Thanks for another great article, I really enjoy your writting style!



    On April 02 2015 03:18 739 wrote:
    Now that's the kind of articles I was waiting for, well done and thanks a lot !


    Thanks to everyone for the support/kind words.

    After playing the patch a bit more, I've found that:

    Ultimate Evolution is very, very strong.

    The health regen buff on Murky has a bigger impact than I thought.

    Other than those, everything is on point.

    Hey, happy birthday me!
    shiroiusagi
    Profile Blog Joined September 2011
    SoCal, USA3955 Posts
    April 01 2015 23:51 GMT
    #13
    On April 02 2015 03:18 739 wrote:
    Hey, happy birthday me!


    Happy Birthday Oxy!
    Graphics@shiroiusagi_ | shiroiusagi.net
    nimdil
    Profile Blog Joined January 2011
    Poland3748 Posts
    April 02 2015 06:57 GMT
    #14
    Sgt. Hammer was already fairly squishy, reducing her health mean her siege mode is less relevant.
    Markwerf
    Profile Joined March 2010
    Netherlands3728 Posts
    April 02 2015 08:35 GMT
    #15
    The XP changes and structure HP change aren't neccesarily linked at all, why would they have to be?
    Lower structure healthpoints is just to improve pushing as an option I feel, changing the XP curve was done for other reasons completely perhaps, just to make the 'early game' last relatively longer.

    "The trend of moving strong talents on the same tier has to stop, by the way. Weaker talents should instead be improved to become more attractive, somewhat like what we’ve seen for Abathur."
    I couldn't disagree more with this statement. The solution you suggest isn't possible. Some talents are very strong but can't really be changed much due to their binary nature. For example piercing bolt on muradin. However they often have a neutral talent to compete with that you simply can't change because it would offset the talent on other heroes. In that case a good move is often to move that too strong talent away to an other tier, usually higher, to provide actual choices again.
    Sure you could also say remove all neutral talents and just tweak every one of them for all heroes but neutral talents make the game easier, without them it would be hard to distinct all those passive effects.
    Moving talents, nerfing/buffing talents and rerolling neccesary buffs into base skills are all good tools that need to be combined.

    "So, what’s the mature solution here? Simply put: crowd control effects should fully affect their target only after the movement ability has completed its displacement effects. This way, everyone would be happy."
    This would be an ugly solution as it wouldn't make sense with CC effects that target ground like root and howling blast. Would you be hit by them and then be rooted at the spot you land? Or would you not be hit by these but you would by hex and the like?
    I think the current way is fine but they just need to be clearer in helpboxes and skill descriptions which skills stop CC and which won't.

    Overall solid patch, still a LOT of talent tweaking to do but they are going the right direction with plenty of heroes. And hero balance is starting to look like something.
    739
    Profile Blog Joined May 2009
    Bearded Elder29903 Posts
    April 02 2015 08:37 GMT
    #16
    On April 02 2015 08:51 shiroiusagi wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 02 2015 03:18 739 wrote:
    Hey, happy birthday me!


    Happy Birthday Oxy!

    Wait, I didn't write that :d
    WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
    ACrow
    Profile Joined October 2011
    Germany6583 Posts
    April 02 2015 09:26 GMT
    #17
    Nice analysis, much appreciated

    Just in case anyone has missed it: Aba was repeatedly banned in the european ESL Major finals this Wednesday, due to Gamers2' use of Ultimate Evolution. They'd use the shield effect from Evolutionary Link to great effect. The clone is really strong now.
    Get off my lawn, young punks
    4tre55
    Profile Joined June 2011
    Germany330 Posts
    April 02 2015 11:19 GMT
    #18
    Amount and quality of contet on TL rapidly improving with the new forums, i really like it. Good analysis aswell, keep it up!
    YouGotNothin
    Profile Blog Joined September 2010
    United States907 Posts
    April 02 2015 13:42 GMT
    #19
    Great write-up I really agree about how adjusting the base ability as was seen with Tyrande's E is a smart way to make an overwhelmingly popular talent less popular. I am certainly appreciating the added talent flexibility Tyrande has because of it.
    I got nothin'...
    Oxygg
    Profile Joined October 2014
    Canada42 Posts
    April 02 2015 14:48 GMT
    #20
    On April 02 2015 18:26 ACrow wrote:
    Nice analysis, much appreciated

    Just in case anyone has missed it: Aba was repeatedly banned in the european ESL Major finals this Wednesday, due to Gamers2' use of Ultimate Evolution. They'd use the shield effect from Evolutionary Link to great effect. The clone is really strong now.


    Yeah, I know! It's crazy. Abathur is popular on EU, completely ignored on NA. It's interesting, really. I do point out that the analysis is NA-centric in the conclusion. I personally have faith that Abathur will start seeing play soon here.
    xDaunt
    Profile Joined March 2010
    United States17988 Posts
    April 02 2015 14:57 GMT
    #21
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.
    ACrow
    Profile Joined October 2011
    Germany6583 Posts
    April 02 2015 16:20 GMT
    #22
    Illidan with hat and the +atk speed talent is also just madness. Increases his healing so much.
    Get off my lawn, young punks
    shiroiusagi
    Profile Blog Joined September 2011
    SoCal, USA3955 Posts
    April 02 2015 17:53 GMT
    #23
    On April 02 2015 17:37 739 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 02 2015 08:51 shiroiusagi wrote:
    On April 02 2015 03:18 739 wrote:
    Hey, happy birthday me!


    Happy Birthday Oxy!

    Wait, I didn't write that :d


    Was trying to take out all the darn quoting haha.
    Graphics@shiroiusagi_ | shiroiusagi.net
    Lobotomist
    Profile Joined May 2010
    United States1541 Posts
    April 02 2015 21:25 GMT
    #24
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.

    Abathur...good? But....what will i believe in any more? :D
    Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
    Wuster
    Profile Joined May 2011
    1974 Posts
    April 02 2015 21:47 GMT
    #25
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.


    Just don't be one of the Abathur's that blindly hat's Nova. If I wasn't sure which Nova to kill before, now I am =D.
    Heyoka
    Profile Blog Joined March 2008
    Katowice25012 Posts
    April 03 2015 15:01 GMT
    #26
    Can you target the clone with that? That could be a hilarious mindgame.
    @RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
    Wuster
    Profile Joined May 2011
    1974 Posts
    April 03 2015 18:11 GMT
    #27
    I would assume you can and it would probably be a better idea anyways, since the clone tends to sit around in the midst of a fight while the real Nova tries to sneak away.

    But alas, I don't own Abathur.
    Chairman Ray
    Profile Blog Joined December 2009
    United States11903 Posts
    April 03 2015 18:52 GMT
    #28
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.


    So other than having someone like Zeratul or Illidan, what other heroes would be good in an Abathur comp?
    Big G
    Profile Joined April 2011
    Italy835 Posts
    April 03 2015 23:46 GMT
    #29
    On April 04 2015 03:52 Chairman Ray wrote:


    So other than having someone like Zeratul or Illidan, what other heroes would be good in an Abathur comp?

    Murky!

    Elegy
    Profile Blog Joined September 2009
    United States1629 Posts
    April 04 2015 17:24 GMT
    #30
    I disagree with picking Abathur without first ensuring there's a good team comp to support it. He's an incredibly powerful hero, but he's not a A-list autopick for any team comp imo. Played some hero league yesterday where the enemy Abathur was first pick and they just had nothing really worthwhile for him to symbiote and support, game didn't end well for them at all. Definitely very strong, just needs to be chosen in the context of a entire team imo
    alpenrahm
    Profile Blog Joined December 2010
    Germany628 Posts
    April 04 2015 19:38 GMT
    #31
    I am waiting for that Raynor analysis. It feels like his autoattack build became viable again with the dmg buff, provided you have a reliable source of CC to trigger the executioner.
    Oxygg
    Profile Joined October 2014
    Canada42 Posts
    April 04 2015 21:02 GMT
    #32
    On April 05 2015 04:38 alpenrahm wrote:
    I am waiting for that Raynor analysis. It feels like his autoattack build became viable again with the dmg buff, provided you have a reliable source of CC to trigger the executioner.


    It's been up for a long time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/479944-heroes-raynor-what-ever-happened-to-baby-james

    alpenrahm
    Profile Blog Joined December 2010
    Germany628 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-04-04 21:30:35
    April 04 2015 21:28 GMT
    #33
    On April 05 2015 06:02 Oxygg wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 05 2015 04:38 alpenrahm wrote:
    I am waiting for that Raynor analysis. It feels like his autoattack build became viable again with the dmg buff, provided you have a reliable source of CC to trigger the executioner.


    It's been up for a long time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/479944-heroes-raynor-what-ever-happened-to-baby-james



    i read that one, but the prequisite changed with the sylvanas patch dmg buff +12dmg per lvl instead of +11

    it just means that at lvl 20 you have 35+12x20=275 instead of 255 dmg per shot on your auto attack.
    it doesn´t sound like a lot but considering that Raynor has Executioner aswell as several Attack speed buffs it amounts to a lot.

    here s the math:

    275 dmg @ lvl 20 with 32 Stacks on the Marksman (which is the usual average) means that he hits for a whooping

    (275+32)*1,4 = 429 Dmg per attack

    and Raynor starts with 1.25 attacks per second + 25% (1,56 Aps) from inspire +20% from nexus frenzy (1.87 Aps) amounts to him dealing 804 points of Damage per second. Ontop of his Q and his Ult. Compared to 751 Dps pre sylvanas patch.

    The question now is, if that is enough of a dmg Buff to let Raynors Auto attack build be viable? and dont forget that you have to sacrifice the extra heal from the lvl 1 talent, aswell as your entire Q build and Bolt on lvl 20

    from my experience (rank 20 eu ...) the Auto attack build really shines if you have a comp with good crowd control (jaina mostly Jaina for the mass slows) and solid tanking while your enemies refrained from picking Hardcounters to Raynor such as Nova and Illidan.

    Oxygg
    Profile Joined October 2014
    Canada42 Posts
    April 05 2015 06:49 GMT
    #34
    On April 05 2015 06:28 alpenrahm wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 05 2015 06:02 Oxygg wrote:
    On April 05 2015 04:38 alpenrahm wrote:
    I am waiting for that Raynor analysis. It feels like his autoattack build became viable again with the dmg buff, provided you have a reliable source of CC to trigger the executioner.


    It's been up for a long time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/479944-heroes-raynor-what-ever-happened-to-baby-james



    i read that one, but the prequisite changed with the sylvanas patch dmg buff +12dmg per lvl instead of +11

    it just means that at lvl 20 you have 35+12x20=275 instead of 255 dmg per shot on your auto attack.
    it doesn´t sound like a lot but considering that Raynor has Executioner aswell as several Attack speed buffs it amounts to a lot.

    here s the math:

    275 dmg @ lvl 20 with 32 Stacks on the Marksman (which is the usual average) means that he hits for a whooping

    (275+32)*1,4 = 429 Dmg per attack

    and Raynor starts with 1.25 attacks per second + 25% (1,56 Aps) from inspire +20% from nexus frenzy (1.87 Aps) amounts to him dealing 804 points of Damage per second. Ontop of his Q and his Ult. Compared to 751 Dps pre sylvanas patch.

    The question now is, if that is enough of a dmg Buff to let Raynors Auto attack build be viable? and dont forget that you have to sacrifice the extra heal from the lvl 1 talent, aswell as your entire Q build and Bolt on lvl 20

    from my experience (rank 20 eu ...) the Auto attack build really shines if you have a comp with good crowd control (jaina mostly Jaina for the mass slows) and solid tanking while your enemies refrained from picking Hardcounters to Raynor such as Nova and Illidan.



    So, basically, Raynor is good if you pick all-in offensive talents with a good team comp against a bad team comp and make it to level 20? Great!
    alpenrahm
    Profile Blog Joined December 2010
    Germany628 Posts
    April 05 2015 15:04 GMT
    #35
    On April 05 2015 15:49 Oxygg wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 05 2015 06:28 alpenrahm wrote:
    On April 05 2015 06:02 Oxygg wrote:
    On April 05 2015 04:38 alpenrahm wrote:
    I am waiting for that Raynor analysis. It feels like his autoattack build became viable again with the dmg buff, provided you have a reliable source of CC to trigger the executioner.


    It's been up for a long time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/479944-heroes-raynor-what-ever-happened-to-baby-james



    i read that one, but the prequisite changed with the sylvanas patch dmg buff +12dmg per lvl instead of +11

    it just means that at lvl 20 you have 35+12x20=275 instead of 255 dmg per shot on your auto attack.
    it doesn´t sound like a lot but considering that Raynor has Executioner aswell as several Attack speed buffs it amounts to a lot.

    here s the math:

    275 dmg @ lvl 20 with 32 Stacks on the Marksman (which is the usual average) means that he hits for a whooping

    (275+32)*1,4 = 429 Dmg per attack

    and Raynor starts with 1.25 attacks per second + 25% (1,56 Aps) from inspire +20% from nexus frenzy (1.87 Aps) amounts to him dealing 804 points of Damage per second. Ontop of his Q and his Ult. Compared to 751 Dps pre sylvanas patch.

    The question now is, if that is enough of a dmg Buff to let Raynors Auto attack build be viable? and dont forget that you have to sacrifice the extra heal from the lvl 1 talent, aswell as your entire Q build and Bolt on lvl 20

    from my experience (rank 20 eu ...) the Auto attack build really shines if you have a comp with good crowd control (jaina mostly Jaina for the mass slows) and solid tanking while your enemies refrained from picking Hardcounters to Raynor such as Nova and Illidan.



    So, basically, Raynor is good if you pick all-in offensive talents with a good team comp against a bad team comp and make it to level 20? Great!


    YES nailed it!
    YouGotNothin
    Profile Blog Joined September 2010
    United States907 Posts
    April 06 2015 13:56 GMT
    #36
    On April 04 2015 03:52 Chairman Ray wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.


    So other than having someone like Zeratul or Illidan, what other heroes would be good in an Abathur comp?


    I have only recently started playing Abathur so I am no expert, but his symbiotic abilities have pretty short range so any heroes that can get into the middle of the enemies and stay in the middle of them through either CC or mobility are definitely best. This can be CC/engage tanks like Arthas/ETC/Tyrael/Sonya/Anub/Muradin, or mobile assassins like Zeratul (my personal fav), Thrall, Kerrigan, or Illidan. I think Abathur really shines with the melee assassins though because he can provide them the little extra tankiness they need to stick in the fight longer with his shield and other possible healing talents, and the 25% increase AA speed is usually great on them.
    I got nothin'...
    xDaunt
    Profile Joined March 2010
    United States17988 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-04-06 14:10:28
    April 06 2015 14:10 GMT
    #37
    On April 04 2015 03:52 Chairman Ray wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.


    So other than having someone like Zeratul or Illidan, what other heroes would be good in an Abathur comp?

    As a general rule, melee heroes who are good at sticking to their targets are good with Abathur. The best are the ones with high burst for obvious reasons (Zeratul), but the autoattack-dependent heroes are also good (Illidan and Thrall). The other hero that is a beast with Abathur is Chen, just because that damned panda can drink ale for days while Symbiote does work. With Symbiote, Chen can 1v2 pretty much any combination and can even 1v3 some others.
    dae
    Profile Joined June 2010
    Canada1600 Posts
    April 06 2015 15:15 GMT
    #38
    On April 06 2015 23:10 xDaunt wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 04 2015 03:52 Chairman Ray wrote:
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.


    So other than having someone like Zeratul or Illidan, what other heroes would be good in an Abathur comp?

    As a general rule, melee heroes who are good at sticking to their targets are good with Abathur. The best are the ones with high burst for obvious reasons (Zeratul), but the autoattack-dependent heroes are also good (Illidan and Thrall). The other hero that is a beast with Abathur is Chen, just because that damned panda can drink ale for days while Symbiote does work. With Symbiote, Chen can 1v2 pretty much any combination and can even 1v3 some others.


    Backdoor Abathur with all of the Locust talents is very very strong if the other team doesn't have globals, and it isn't really dependent on your team's comp. Having to almost 4v5 for the first 13/16 levels is kinda meh, but after that it's so hard for a pub to deal with.

    I'm not even sure how you deal with it if you don't have a global to kill him when he goes in.
    xDaunt
    Profile Joined March 2010
    United States17988 Posts
    April 06 2015 15:39 GMT
    #39
    On April 07 2015 00:15 dae wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 06 2015 23:10 xDaunt wrote:
    On April 04 2015 03:52 Chairman Ray wrote:
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.


    So other than having someone like Zeratul or Illidan, what other heroes would be good in an Abathur comp?

    As a general rule, melee heroes who are good at sticking to their targets are good with Abathur. The best are the ones with high burst for obvious reasons (Zeratul), but the autoattack-dependent heroes are also good (Illidan and Thrall). The other hero that is a beast with Abathur is Chen, just because that damned panda can drink ale for days while Symbiote does work. With Symbiote, Chen can 1v2 pretty much any combination and can even 1v3 some others.


    Backdoor Abathur with all of the Locust talents is very very strong if the other team doesn't have globals, and it isn't really dependent on your team's comp. Having to almost 4v5 for the first 13/16 levels is kinda meh, but after that it's so hard for a pub to deal with.

    I'm not even sure how you deal with it if you don't have a global to kill him when he goes in.

    It is strong against bad/uncoordinated teams. The way to beat it is to force and win a teamfight and push with a boss or other map objective to victory.
    Xorphene
    Profile Joined January 2011
    United Kingdom492 Posts
    April 07 2015 16:29 GMT
    #40
    I'm really enjoying the high quality of content in the HotS forum, keep up the good work!
    T: Polt, Fantasy, Flash, Jjakji. P: HerO, Rain, Grubby, SoS. Z: Jaedong, Scarlett, Snute, Life. Casters: ToD, Apollo, MrBitter, Artosis, Day[9].
    Tenks
    Profile Joined April 2010
    United States3104 Posts
    Last Edited: 2015-04-07 17:49:02
    April 07 2015 17:48 GMT
    #41
    On April 07 2015 00:39 xDaunt wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 07 2015 00:15 dae wrote:
    On April 06 2015 23:10 xDaunt wrote:
    On April 04 2015 03:52 Chairman Ray wrote:
    On April 02 2015 23:57 xDaunt wrote:
    I played a whole bunch of hero league games with an Abathur yesterday, and we won them all. Before many of the games, some our teammates would bitch about the pick. The Abathur hate is irrational. He's really good, especially if he has someone good to symbiote ***cough*** Zeratul ***cough***.


    So other than having someone like Zeratul or Illidan, what other heroes would be good in an Abathur comp?

    As a general rule, melee heroes who are good at sticking to their targets are good with Abathur. The best are the ones with high burst for obvious reasons (Zeratul), but the autoattack-dependent heroes are also good (Illidan and Thrall). The other hero that is a beast with Abathur is Chen, just because that damned panda can drink ale for days while Symbiote does work. With Symbiote, Chen can 1v2 pretty much any combination and can even 1v3 some others.


    Backdoor Abathur with all of the Locust talents is very very strong if the other team doesn't have globals, and it isn't really dependent on your team's comp. Having to almost 4v5 for the first 13/16 levels is kinda meh, but after that it's so hard for a pub to deal with.

    I'm not even sure how you deal with it if you don't have a global to kill him when he goes in.

    It is strong against bad/uncoordinated teams. The way to beat it is to force and win a teamfight and push with a boss or other map objective to victory.



    Or internally keep a clock and every 60 seconds understand Abathur is looking to backdoor and set up a gank. Don't take a team fight when you know Abathur is alive and his locust nest is available. Unless all your keeps are down there are only a few areas Abathur can Z into the base unseen.
    Wat
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