EPTHeroes Large General Thread - Page 296
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On January 29 2015 12:08 [SXG]Phantom wrote: The bullshit "the game lacks depth" argument drives me mad. Soccer, the most pouplar sport in the world is the one with less depth when compared to fotball, baseball and basketball (not talking about skill, but depth and rules and etc) and that didn't stop it. That didnt stop hearthtone. That didn't stop Lol for being the most popular game even when it was a "dumbed down" version of dota. Depth doesn't matter, the only things that matter are: Is it fun to watch? And the playerbase. Soccer is incredibly deep in tactics and strategy at the highest level. Did you really expect everyone to agree with that ridiculous premise just because "all they do is kick ball lol"? =| That being said Hearthstone succeeded against MTGO even though the latter is objectively the deeper game because it was so awful to use. Not sure if HotS has the same advantage against LoL, especially when the barrier to entry is still pretty high and the full release is nowhere in sight. | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
 Can't we focus on information about HotS instead? Strats, heroes etc? | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:14 hariooo wrote: Soccer is incredibly deep in tactics and strategy at the highest level. Did you really expect everyone to agree with that ridiculous premise just because "all they do is kick ball lol"? =| He specifically mentioned rules, and he's not wrong. People make the same argument as with Chess. A game doesn't need a 400-page rule book of things to memorize in order to be strategically deep or complex. You said yourself that soccer is incredibly deep in tactics and strategy but the goal of the game is still to score on your opponent more times than they can score on you, and there is a limited rule set behind that goal compared to other, less popular sports. | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:11 Vaelone wrote: Game does badly need more heroes though, and with this pace it's going to take like 4 years till there's a acceptable amount of them. If the game even has a community at that point. They'll probably release a bunch at release, don't you think? At least I hope so. (even though I have plenty of heroes to play, and I haven't even mastered one of them) | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:14 hariooo wrote: Soccer is incredibly deep in tactics and strategy at the highest level. Did you really expect everyone to agree with that ridiculous premise just because "all they do is kick ball lol"? =| I couldn't see any reason to argue with a guy calls football, soccer  . Jokin | ||
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kingjames01
Canada1603 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:14 hariooo wrote: Soccer is incredibly deep in tactics and strategy at the highest level. Did you really expect everyone to agree with that ridiculous premise just because "all they do is kick ball lol"? =| I think he means that on the surface, there are fewer possible "moves", so it's "simpler", but underneath that, there is a lot of strategy. Compare it to Go vs Chess. In Go, you only have 1 type of "move" per turn. In Chess, you have 10+ possible "moves" per turn. If you try to argue that Go has no depth because there are fewer "moves", then you'd be mistaken. Similar to what posters in this thread are doing with Heroes vs League vs DotA. It might seem like a good line of argument but in the end, it just makes them look ridiculous. | ||
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DODswe4
Sweden2157 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:26 kingjames01 wrote: I think he means that on the surface, there are fewer possible "moves", so it's "simpler", but underneath that, there is a lot of strategy. Compare it to Go vs Chess. In Go, you only have 1 type of "move" per turn. In Chess, you have 10+ possible "moves" per turn. If you try to argue that Go has no depth because there are fewer "moves", then you'd be mistaken. Similar to what posters in this thread are doing with Heroes vs League vs DotA. It might seem like a good line of argument but in the end, it just makes them look ridiculous. I would say that League, DotA and Heroes close to each other when depth is concerned but Heroes is alot easier to understand and get into. There is however alot more champions in DotA and League at the moment and that leads to more interesting picks. Somethign I think Heroes at the moment lack (will probably be solved at launch or later in beta when more champions are released) | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:11 Vaelone wrote: Game does badly need more heroes though, and with this pace it's going to take like 4 years till there's a acceptable amount of them. If the game even has a community at that point. I'm just speculating but I think the pace may improve. I think they have designs on paper for a lot of heroes but their resources are spread thinner by the general development of the game. Once the game gets settled in, they should be able to turn ideas into reality faster. Either they'll be able to make the team responsible for developing new heroes larger or that team will become more efficient by being more experienced and by working on a more static game. Also a lot of effort is still being spent on balancing the current heroes and that demand should naturally reduce in time. They could just let things be a mess and crank out all the heroes and then balance them all and make gameplay tweaks for them at the end, but I think what they're doing now is wiser. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
Right now there's just a real lack of variation in my games at least, in my ranked games people are pretty much picking from a pool of 15 heroes with the occasional surprise pick. But yeah it just entered beta so I do understand lack of heroes atm, I'm just worried the game ends up launching with like 35 heroes and then we get 1 more occasionally. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10138 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:58 Tenks wrote: It is a valid concern. I don't play Hearthstone but from what I understand updates for that game are very spread apart. WoW is also the poster child for too-long updates. WoW patches and Hearthstone patches are large in content because the first one is an MMO and the second one is a card game(releasing a single card kinda screws stuff up). You can more easily incrementally add heroes to hots. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
As the number of heros increases this gets exponentially harder to do and you will be seeing more and more balance whines simply because it's not feasible to give every hero a fighting chance in solo queue. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Also appearently blizz execs dont have faith in hots? Rumor but appearently a credible source. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On January 30 2015 03:37 Kipsate wrote: Then you get League and it will be quite some time before that much is released, plenty of time to change some aspects. Also appearently blizz execs dont have faith in hots? Rumor but appearently a credible source. O? Link? And I assume you mean Activision execs? Maybe not but it makes more sense that way. I dunno anyway. When you can convince this many people that $40 is worth paying for an f2p game I can't imagine that this looks bad for their operating income. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:01 xDaunt wrote: The game will only improve as Blizzard continues to add maps and heroes. I'm pretty sure it'll greatly improve once they release the map editor. I trust the community much more than Blizzard. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On January 30 2015 02:23 Arnstein wrote: They'll probably release a bunch at release, don't you think? At least I hope so. (even though I have plenty of heroes to play, and I haven't even mastered one of them) I would assume so. But then I was also expecting new heroes with closed beta (Sylvanas, Lost Vikings and Thrall at least). But given the design team is also balancing new maps (D3 heaven/hell map, Tomb of the Spider Queen, SC2 themed map?) I'm sure that's taking time away from heroes and also what Nony said about having to balance existing heroes and learning the ropes of hero design. Which in the last Town Hall the Blizzard guest did admit to. Anyways, I'm expecting the game will release with all the D3 playable heroes at the least and I would assume a warrior from the SC2 universe so that all universe have all roles available (although who's the D3 support I wonder?). | ||
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