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I wrote this about the mines in response to this thread http://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/2td5jw/a_guide_and_tips_for_each_hots_map/
I would disagree with the advice for Haunted Mines. I actually hate this map the most because it's so simple and yet everyone seems to fuck it up or not know how to play it:
Here is a map of the mine: http://imgur.com/1Uz58Ve
The red skulls are primary, You should be in these spots asap, which means 15 seconds on the clock, go there and wait for the spawn, or scout around them until they spawn (if mine was already opened). If timed right you will be there within a few seconds of spawning exactly.
In the circles I put numbers. These are the amount of players on your team that should go to each spot. And tanks/baits should prioritize the red spots.
If both teams are armed with the same information you should try and AVOID team fighting and skirmishes in favor of killing and collecting the skulls first. Which means you can fall back to the green locations if you are late to the mines. I've seen a team take down the golem plus a green circle when they were late to the mines and then get out and start capping mercs asap. Or just take the green camps you can until your team is formed up and force them into a team fight and hopefully cleanup with the golem after.
If you pay attention to the minimap, the skulls will disappear on the map even if they are in the fog of war. This means the opponent is there and capped the skulls. So if you keep your eyes on the map while the mine is running, you can see the movement patterns of the enemies. IE; green/orange dying towards right side of the map, or nothing dying and no one in lanes, etc. They are either mercing or golem. Try and pay attention to the minimap just before the mines open/spawn and see how many and who of their team goes in first and where. It's really not hard, call it for your team, there will be downtime if you are in there or heading in there 15 seconds early.
If you have a guy who's on the wrong side of the mine, don't go for the green spot, just run through the center of the map, or in and around the green circles to bait their team if you think your hero can do that. Characters with quick move speed, teleporting, or cloaking are great (Reghar, zeratul, tassadar, valla, etc)
Also important to note, you can look down inside the mine from above before you enter. I don't think a lot of people realize this. Setups are laid from bad teams who are forcing team fights instead of skull gathering. If you see such setups, just start gathering skulls in the orange and green areas opposite side of them.
Now, back to the strategy of the mine spawn. Like I said you will want that 2-1-1-1 spread on the red and orange locations for whichever side your team entered the mines. If their team is good they will be looking for this as well. So that forces skirmish at first to contest the skulls at the red locations, you will need to be fighting toe to toe on top of the minions as they die. This is why you will ideally want a tank and a DPS who can do AOE and burst quickly. (Anubarak, stitches, arthas, valla, illidan, zeratul, etc).
During the time in which the teams will be skirmishing over the red camps, decisions are swift. If you are at an orange camp just gathering skulls, don't feel forced to immediately abandon it to help your teammates and get kills. Skulls are more important, you can get cleanup kills and saves later. ONLY Abandon if they have 3~4 or more players at 1 camp trying to gank your team. It's very situational based on the composition of the fighters in this skirmish, do they have disables and dps? OR do they just have healers and tanks? Obviously the latter can be ignored for longer.
Often times both teams don't get into the mines at the same time or in ideal positions because someone has died, or players were out of position, or mercing, or just bad, etc when the mines spawn. This makes the 2-1-1-1 spread most effective. Your red teams will then proceed to the opponents orange spots and your middle orange spot can decide to go to a green or follow through and team up at this point (depends on your minimap watching and if the enemy are in the mines as a team etc). At this point you will have something like 2-2-1 or 2-3 with the tankiest in the position closest to their entrance.
If all goes smoothly you will cap all the orange and red camps in a matter of seconds and then decide to go for the golem, force a team fight, or just get out and take mercs away from them to defend the golem.
This is a major issue I notice when playing the map. People take a huge lead in the mines and are low on mana and/or hp and then rush into the golem or into a team fight that they are disadvantaged in because the opponent knows where you are and you are more likely to be spread thin. Often times the best course of action is to just retreat and soak/push lanes in preparation for the golems or like I said, take mercs that won't be contested asap.
Vs the golem, please please please grab the fucking pink hearts intelligently. Often times people grab them when everyone is far away during a golem slam animation and not everyone reaps the benefit (especially if you have a player who has taken a regen hp/mana orb talent), or people grab them when no one (specifically your tank) need the hp, or they just don't even grab them at all in which case the enemy ganking team runs in and ganks you and takes your regen away during the course of the fight. The pink hearts are stronger than the regular lane hearts as well. Don't be an idiot, always grab hearts and make sure to check the minimap and players in the area to grab it in the most efficient way to help players (I even see this happen in lanes where people grab or dont grab hearts with teammates in mind).
Ideally you will want to be fighting the golem with your team towards the right side of the wall, where the golem is in between you and the enemies coming in. His slams and roots are more likely to be hitting them this way. The worst place you can be standing is near the left side of the small wall where the golem is that has 2 paths. You will almost be guaranteed to be targeted first here, and you will also be likely to be disabled and then hit by golem and disabled by him etc.
If you can, try and pull the golem down or up to one side of the mines when you initially aggro him. You don't need the full team to start either, if you have a player or two heading your way and no enemies are coming or fighting in the time it will take you to defeat him, start it up and pull him away from where you think they are likely to appear next. And then get on the safe side of the golem. If you can do it right you can pull him to block 2 paths leaving a small gap for escape on the right wall if needed.
As far as post mine:
Start taking their merc camps if you lost the mine and they are goleming. This prevents your (probably weaker) golem from being DPS'd down easily before he kills anything as well as forcing them to take extra time dealing with these seige mercs before they decide to push their golem or gank etc.
As far as your seige camp, you will want to start this fight around the time the golems start beating through the ground, and have the camp capped so that they meet the golem and dont pass him etc. IIRC, you should cap the first time when their golem is passing through their gate and it works out to your guys being behind your wall throwing rocks. In later stages, you will just need to cap the camp so that they are inside the bushes throwing rocks into your fort area which forces their team to split up and keeps them from being killed by minions and the golem in the lane.
In the later stages, these guys will just run passed and aren't as useful except for a slight distraction for the reinforcements. Should really only do this if you can't soak or push lanes and have nothing else to do.
The bruiser camp in the middle is pretty shit imho. They are not as valuable as the seige camps. The only time they should really be capped is when you have conceded mines to the enemy and cap all 3 merc camps together forcing a huge lane push followed by your weak golem in which you can either reinforce with your DPS, or abandon and focus their strong golem without their (full) team support. (and of course if you have nothing to do like i said before about the seige camp)
Now as far as when to attack or defend the golems, and what characters to use to do so it's like this:
Like op suggested, the general rule of thumb is push your stronger, defend their stronger. If the golems are pretty even, or even yours is supremely stronger, it's probably best to leave at least 1 DPS there. Ranged is best, Raynor, valla, tychus, etc. And the rest of your team push it. Hopefully you will have capped your seige mercs with proper timing and they DPS can make short work of the golem and join the push before it's over.
In the event that a team doesn't follow the general rule, eg; pushing weak and ignoring strong etc. Ignore them. Push your beast to victory, and pay attention to the minimap. If you see them coming back to defend from behind, back up and setup a team gank. You should be able to single out a weak or out of position target pretty easily and the golem is still beasting while you are buying time. Again, in this situation it might be ideal to leave a ranged DPS to focus the golem and avoid their 5 man push along with the weak golem. The player could also be useful to slow down their straggler if they all decide to defend from behind which further setups up and delays.
Pre Mine notes:
It may be ideal to not all enter the mine if you have the opportunity and position to prevent the enemy players from getting into the mine quickly. Such as standing on the opposite side of the map where their team is going in, and putting damage on each player trying to get in to unmount them, or distract and delay while your team is getting red and orange for free. Good characters for this are people with range and pushing/pulling/blocking spells or ones that can zone very well; Raynor, nova, stitches, valla, azmodan, gazlowe, arthas, nazeebo, tassadar, etc.
A nazeebo zombies and a well timed tassadar FF could buy a shit load of time.
Good hero picks for this map:
Zoners
Lane dominators
Scouting/minimap presence heroes
and AOE Burst DPS
The main reasons for this is because of the fact there are only 2 lanes which makes your positional control all that more important. As well as short distance between lanes. And the AOE for mine clear
So the ideal characters are:
Tanks: Arthas, Anubarak, Stitches
DPS: Valla, Tychus, Raynor, Jaina
AOE: Kerrigan, Zeratul, Illidan, Tassadar, Sonya
Support: Azmodan, Gazlowe, Zagara, Reghar, Nazeebo, Malfurion
These are what I believe to be the top picks for the map, as many of them overlap roles (DPS+AOE), (AOE+TANK), (AOE+HEAL), etc.
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I main reghar, and often times people say I'm the best reghar they have seen in a while etc. And my hotslogs stats reflect that.
On January 23 2015 10:58 Tenks wrote:
In the current meta bloodlust is almost non-existant. If you pick Rehgar you pick healing. It is too good.
Bullshit. Healing takes time to cast, not an instant, and not as team oriented. If they are all focus firing someone, good chance your healing whiffs and you gained a 10 second cooldown in which time your team just dies and you are running. Most of the time you are just using it to save whoever is running. This is just a lose less or win more mechanic, it doesn't help in most team fights, it's only good in skirmishes and baits.
On January 23 2015 11:06 xDaunt wrote:
I think you can only take bloodlust on Rehgar if you have another healer on the team. Otherwise, you're just asking for trouble.
Bullshit, I exclusively take bloodlust now as it's swing/threat, utility, and power is ridiculous. For starters, it can be used offensively, defensively, to push, in team fights, in skirmish, or even just to run away in the same way you would heal someone to save them from death.
It's especially great when you have 2 or more DPS on your team and/or characters who rely on positioning to setup traps etc. EG; stitches just runs up and eats a mother fucker and runs back with the move speed, then hooks another guy for your DPS to destroy in the process. Or arthas ice aura chasing down a fleeing team there is no escape. Or boss pushing a lane with 5 men, those forts are gone in seconds. Or watching an ally get slowed and autoed down and running up to pop a bloodlust for him to escape.
Also when people hear that tiger and see that red fucker fly into the sky like a nuclear launch, they panic, they retreat, they make mistakes. 10 seconds of pure terror for them.
Does fucking 2000 health put the fear in anyone's heart ever? I don't fucking think so. Bloodlust every time.
I think most people build reghar wrong and that is why they take the healing ult. If you are playing him well, you will almost never need a huge heal like that. http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Rehgar#Talents
1st reduce heal cost by 30
2nd 100% mana/hp regen (this shit honestly feels broken)
3rd Absorbing shield
4th motherfucker
5th increase heal and more targets
6th shield bond (so fucking good, I get a boner every time)
7th Toss up depending on how the game is going. If I am forced to defend lanes in a losing game, I might take cleave. Most of the time storm shield is the shit though. Pop the BL and the SS and you have a rape force.
Also, if you build him this way, You have this added slowly healing and shielding a guy they are trying to take down which is confusing and forced enemies to make bad decisions. Instead of letting them get all low fast and then trying to drop a huge heal all at once where they just switch targets immediately or wahtever.
And you are trying to stay in wolf form only coming out for dropping heals and shields and a couple of hits before you go back wolf again.
All that being said, I think reghar sucks in pub games because he does almost nothing by himself and bloodlust is even worse in pub games because people don't realize what it does or whats going on. Which is probably why people take the other shit and think its better.
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On January 23 2015 23:31 Tenks wrote:
I think he is saying that active skills just fill up left to right. So you can never have muscle memory. If you want to ingrain in your head that 2 = Bolt of the Storm that means that is only valid if you picked another active. It would basically be like if DOTA didn't let you move stuff around in your bags. It needs to be fixed -- unless it already has and I didn't notice.
It is not fixed, if u got one additional skill, than u'll be able to use it only with key "1" and there is no possibility to move it to the right side.
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I think the heal is complete ass if your team is full of squishy heroes, either they're dead before it goes off or you overheal like hell. I feel like just the mobility from Bloodlust might give your Assassins better chance to live and you might even just flat out rush down the enemy team.
Granted I've not played that much Rehgar but enough to try out both ultimates. And I have to mention that 86.5% of Master players pick Ancestral Healing over Bloodlust according to hotslogs, it just feels so bizarre to me.
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On January 24 2015 01:02 Vaelone wrote:
I think the heal is complete ass if your team is full of squishy heroes, either they're dead before it goes off or you overheal like hell. I feel like just the mobility from Bloodlust might give your Assassins better chance to live and you might even just flat out rush down the enemy team.
Granted I've not played that much Rehgar but enough to try out both ultimates. And I have to mention that 86.5% of Master players pick Ancestral Healing over Bloodlust according to hotslogs, it just feels so bizarre to me.
My guess is that they have specific team comps where the full heal is utilized more effeciently, or people are just doing the copy cat thing thinking its best because the best use it etc. Like a self fulfilling prophecy. We saw this in SC because Boxer was so well known and one of the best players, we got more people picking terran, and then obviously higher sample size of terran players leading us to believe that terrans are better because they have a higher percentage of good players etc.
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Mexico2170 Posts
For those people asking about a subforum/map guides and stuff, we (the tl writting staff) are working on it, we got a couple of articles finished that we haven't been able to publish do to time constrains from some of our members, but we'll publish them as soon as we can.
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Hi Guys! I'm enjoying this game so much! It's faster than most mobas so it fits my adult schedule (ahh I feel old).
Btw, is it OK to ask for a beta key trade? (got EU need NA) I wanna play with a friend and I signed up for the wrong realm in a giveaway 
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Beat Green Jesus 1v1 with Illidan at lvl 22. I had to throw everything at him... evasion, blood for blood, dive sweep and also use first aid LOL.
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So yea, I'll probably stick with healing... i don't think people in pugs can utilize the 10seconds of pure ownage without dying themselves so the heals will probably better. Cooldowns also seem to favor heal, as you're pretty much gonna have it every fight while bloodlust can still be on cd.
On January 24 2015 00:53 MarlieChurphy wrote:
1st reduce heal cost by 30
2nd 100% mana/hp regen (this shit honestly feels broken)
3rd Absorbing shield
4th motherfucker
5th increase heal and more targets
6th shield bond (so fucking good, I get a boner every time)
7th Toss up depending on how the game is going. If I am forced to defend lanes in a losing game, I might take cleave. Most of the time storm shield is the shit though. Pop the BL and the SS and you have a rape force.
These are pretty standard, no? If people aren't taking these talents then they're building for autoattack (lol) or totem (equally lol).
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On January 24 2015 01:02 Vaelone wrote:
I think the heal is complete ass if your team is full of squishy heroes, either they're dead before it goes off or you overheal like hell. I feel like just the mobility from Bloodlust might give your Assassins better chance to live and you might even just flat out rush down the enemy team.
Granted I've not played that much Rehgar but enough to try out both ultimates. And I have to mention that 86.5% of Master players pick Ancestral Healing over Bloodlust according to hotslogs, it just feels so bizarre to me.
I don't see Rehgar's having problems properly timing their heals on squishy heroes at Diamond/Master level. I'd estimate that less than 10% of the attempts are too late or otherwise fail.
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On January 24 2015 01:02 Vaelone wrote:
I think the heal is complete ass if your team is full of squishy heroes, either they're dead before it goes off or you overheal like hell. I feel like just the mobility from Bloodlust might give your Assassins better chance to live and you might even just flat out rush down the enemy team.
Granted I've not played that much Rehgar but enough to try out both ultimates. And I have to mention that 86.5% of Master players pick Ancestral Healing over Bloodlust according to hotslogs, it just feels so bizarre to me.
Your standard chain heal with 25% talent buff + a shield should be enough to sustain them. If they're going in and getting bursted then they're out of position/got ganked and no heal will save them lol.
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I thought the root on your slow totem was a good talent? I only played Rehgar to lvl 5 so I'm happy to change my mind or at least better understand the situational nature of it.
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On January 24 2015 05:00 mordek wrote:
I thought the root on your slow totem was a good talent? I only played Rehgar to lvl 5 so I'm happy to change my mind or at least better understand the situational nature of it.
It is good. It's the preferred talent, especially when you're up against a kite-heavy comp.
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On January 24 2015 04:56 sushiko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 01:02 Vaelone wrote:
I think the heal is complete ass if your team is full of squishy heroes, either they're dead before it goes off or you overheal like hell. I feel like just the mobility from Bloodlust might give your Assassins better chance to live and you might even just flat out rush down the enemy team.
Granted I've not played that much Rehgar but enough to try out both ultimates. And I have to mention that 86.5% of Master players pick Ancestral Healing over Bloodlust according to hotslogs, it just feels so bizarre to me. Your standard chain heal with 25% talent buff + a shield should be enough to sustain them. If they're going in and getting bursted then they're out of position/got ganked and no heal will save them lol.
I've seen so many lost games because my team overcommits to picking off that guy who gets ancestral healing.
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On January 24 2015 04:54 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 01:02 Vaelone wrote:
I think the heal is complete ass if your team is full of squishy heroes, either they're dead before it goes off or you overheal like hell. I feel like just the mobility from Bloodlust might give your Assassins better chance to live and you might even just flat out rush down the enemy team.
Granted I've not played that much Rehgar but enough to try out both ultimates. And I have to mention that 86.5% of Master players pick Ancestral Healing over Bloodlust according to hotslogs, it just feels so bizarre to me. I don't see Rehgar's having problems properly timing their heals on squishy heroes at Diamond/Master level. I'd estimate that less than 10% of the attempts are too late or otherwise fail.
My understanding of the meta is that Bloodlust is the old school way to play Rehgar. It worked, it won games, it was good, but it's a little dated.
Lately it seems that teams are much more gun shy about committing to fights, in that they run at the first sign of trouble. If Nazeebo pops ult and you can't interrupt? RUN! That makes Nazeebo less scary sorta and seems to be the same problem with Rehgar taking Bloodlust.
Ancestral Healing also complements the more conservative approach to engagements as a full heal lets you 'reset' a fight if things aren't going grea. Plus, as other people noted, a full heal can suddenly make it so the other team has fought longer than they otherwise should have.
This is based on watching pro games though, when Rehgar was free it seemed Bloodlust or Ancestral Healing were both equally fine down in my league (scrub).
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Mexico2170 Posts
It comes down to this.
Ancestral healing can get most heroes to full health in a second, that makes it kinda like if you had to kill a 6th player. Then if you got tychus, you need to kill seven, and if you got chen yo need to kill 10 heroes. So its kinda who has the most healthbars  Hahah this is a joke, but has some truth to it, getting any hero to full health can give you so much more in most situations, specially on lategame where death timmers are so long.
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The root is okay and the increased range is good, but since it's not a hard stun it can be escaped from quite easily with mobility skills. I think its a very team comp based pick, while lightning bond is just always good. Blood for blood is okay against tank heavy comps, and I don't know why reghar has berserk.
On January 24 2015 05:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I've seen so many lost games because my team overcommits to picking off that guy who gets ancestral healing.
Yup, at the very least I can say I've saved so many games with clutch heal bombs :D
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Rehgar Builds:
Battle Bot Rehgar (my personal favorite for solo q): http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/rehgar#rrB0
Super Support Rehgar (not a fan myself for solo, must trust in team): http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/rehgar#tPCa
Bloodlust is cool, but there is just way too many ways to disengage it for no major loss (Void Prison, Mighty Gust, Valla W build, Devouring Maw). To top it off few people know the radius and often you end up just getting it on 1-2 people.
Ancestral Heal is wayyyyy too good to pass up.
As for comp stuff, Rehgar is best as a 2nd support. He lacks CC and reliable utility (small totem sort of meh) that a main support like Brightwing or Uther bring, but is really strong in the 2nd slot.
Can be a good main support in double supertank (ex: Diablo + Arthas) or triple tank comps but those are pretty rare.
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On January 24 2015 07:02 sushiko wrote:
I don't know why reghar has berserk.
It's one of the Orc racial skills from WoW. Well sorta, in WoW Trolls have Berserk for an attack speed buff, Orcs have Blood Fury (same icon as HotS' Berserk) for an attack damage buff.
Also, Thrall doesn't have Berserk... so I guess it's left over flavor?
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bloodlust + bile + earthquake + valla aa/reign + odin
the dream
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EPT
