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On November 12 2014 05:24 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 03:42 xDaunt wrote:
Even without envenom, Arthas is really strong. I think the bigger issue with him is the lack of available counterpicks. There need to be some heroes and talents that can shut down heavy healers. Can't you just AoE down the ghouls with heroes good at this, to reduce the amount of healing he can do? I'm a scrub but playing Sonya and skilling Whirlwind let me kill the ghouls pretty fast with a well-placed whirlwind, and I don't remember having an issue with Arthas healing too much in these games, couldn't Tassadar or some other AoE guy do that better?
Yeah, you can do that. It's not really a good hard counter, though. Compare that to having your team take ignite in LoL.
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does none of the heroes have a hard lock down beyond a pathetic 2 second stun? you can't kill anybody unless you throw all five of your heroes on him/her.
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On November 12 2014 07:18 ref4 wrote:
does none of the heroes have a hard lock down beyond a pathetic 2 second stun? you can't kill anybody unless you throw all five of your heroes on him/her.
Yea its definitely closer to the LoL style CC than Dota.
Although the squishier assassins blow up pretty easy.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Long cc is antifun, cant counterplay that
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On November 12 2014 07:18 ref4 wrote:
does none of the heroes have a hard lock down beyond a pathetic 2 second stun? you can't kill anybody unless you throw all five of your heroes on him/her.
Killing people isn't really that hard. Most heroes have some form of CC or gap closer or will otherwise do enough damage that you can inflict a lot of damage on someone very quickly.
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Thats kinda hard to believe if like every video ever shows the (near) opposite - people just being alive an eternity despite being mauled on by several people,
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On November 12 2014 07:31 Velr wrote:
Thats kinda hard to believe if like every video ever shows the (near) opposite - people just being alive an eternity despite being mauled on by several people,
Well I enjoy playing muradin for the fact that he has valid builds with cooldown reset, so the stun from his Q can be a hard CC timed correctly with cd reset 
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Holy shit that Puck alike fairy dragon and zeratul are so strong. Me and my friend moved like from 60% win ratio while leveling heroes to winning 15+ games in row by just picking zeratul/dragon thingie. Unfortunatly i made horrible mistake of buying Kerrigan at start  . Murardin also feels extremly strong sadly i don't like dorfs for RP reasons.
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On November 12 2014 07:18 ref4 wrote:
does none of the heroes have a hard lock down beyond a pathetic 2 second stun? you can't kill anybody unless you throw all five of your heroes on him/her.
You can chain stun for ages with E.T.C.; however, his damage is pretty pitiful so you won't be solo-killing anyone with 3/4HP+.
I actually have the most success with Arthas in "man-fights." Q/D/Envenom has ridiculous burst and there's a lot of melee players who are overconfident in their HP and trade auto-attacks in your Frozen Tempest.
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I know I find Nova and Valla annoyingly hard to kill because of their mobility (or in Nova's case how fast she goes back to steaalth, forcing you to aim a skillshot cc and hit her; although I think Furion, Brightwing and in a lesser measure Tyrande can reveal people if they act fast enough?), but if you get an initiation on them with a single hard cc, they blow up to the follow-up burst. Same with an Illidan or Kerrigan who goes in too early.
And a bunch of tanky people (Diablo and Stitches mostly from what I saw) are pretty much ignorable once they've used their 2 cc abilities, so even if they take a long time to kill it doesn't matter as long as you're healthy enough to not die when their combo comes back up.
Arthas is another thing because his Trait is strong burst once skilled (I don't take envenom, because I haven't played more than 20 games so most of it has been leveling heroes; however I could still explode a squishy for more than half his health if I manage to hit a W/Q/aa/D combo), Tychus is an assassin with a huge health bar thanks to stoneskin and Odin...
But people feel unkillable more because of shields/heals and talents like stoneskin (I don't know what Tassadar does but it always looks like his health bar drops to almost dead, then the remaining 20% take longer to remove than the rest because of shields and stuff) than because of a lack of cc and damage, it seems.
I know when I skill Sonya with Stoneskin, the talent that grants a healing ability, Spell shield, and twice-upgraded Whirlwind, it's not that it takes longer to deal damage equal to my max HP, it's more the huge healing from Whirlwind inside 3+ people, along with stoneskin + 2x trait-based heal for 50% of my max HP, increases the amount of damage needed to actually empty my HP bar by a ton.
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On November 12 2014 07:51 Narw wrote:Holy shit that Puck alike fairy dragon and zeratul are so strong. Me and my friend moved like from 60% win ratio while leveling heroes to winning 15+ games in row by just picking zeratul/dragon thingie. Unfortunatly i made horrible mistake of buying Kerrigan at start . Murardin also feels extremly strong sadly i don't like dorfs for RP reasons.
I'm still kinda meh on Brightwing. She's a good healbot and can be a pain in the ass with her mobility, but I'm not sure that she can really carry games.
My thoughts on Zeratul, however, have evolved. I've been playing him quite a bit more recently and am starting to get a better feel for what he can and can't do. I think the biggest hurdle for me was figuring out how (and when) best to use his blink. In short, I think he's better than I original gave him credit for. He can really punish bad positioning hard. His ability to blow up squishies can be a game changer. I'm still not sure that he can really dictate the pace and outcome of a teamfight, however, because he's not capable of sticking in the fight beyond delivering his initial burst and a few autoattacks. He'll get blown up instantly. In this way, I think that he's still reliant upon competent teammates to engage and disengage properly.In other words, I don't think that you can really "lead" a team when playing Zeratul given how you have to play him. Still, Zeratul can really help your team get an early advantage with good map awareness and ganks.
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Could someone explain to me why a few guides suggest Seasoned Marksman (e.g on Zeratul)? If I understand correctly the damage doesn't scale with hero level, so the benefits seem rather small in the long run. Is it just because other talents at lv1 are worse?
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Cleave range is a much better talent to take first. Hell, I suspect that the life regen talent may even better given Zeratul's lack of shields and other heals. The real problem with seasoned marksman is that you'll never be autoattacking enough to make it worthwhile. Your hero killing damage comes mostly from skills.
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For Zeratul the two I almost always see are blink c/d reduction (Glaurung uses this all the time) or cleave radius.
Marksmen could be cool if you were going Shadow Assault, but as of the moment no one has really found a way to make Shadow Assault work reliably. On top of that on almost all maps Zeratul is your roaming hero since he's pretty awful in lane.
I think Shadow Assault needs some number love to make things like auto-attack Zeratul work, just other ults give so much more raw power, and the charge is good but needs more follow up from the buff side of it.
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On November 12 2014 14:47 Diamond wrote:
For Zeratul the two I almost always see are blink c/d reduction (Glaurung uses this all the time) or cleave radius.
Marksmen could be cool if you were going Shadow Assault, but as of the moment no one has really found a way to make Shadow Assault work reliably. On top of that on almost all maps Zeratul is your roaming hero since he's pretty awful in lane.
I think Shadow Assault needs some number love to make things like auto-attack Zeratul work, just other ults give so much more raw power, and the charge is good but needs more follow up from the buff side of it.
Honestly even if Shadow Assault was fixed, it'd still pale in comparison to Void Prison, which is, IMO the strongest skill in the game currently given how versatile it is. You can set up teamfights, have perfect disengage, stop a fort from attacking during a dive, protect your own buildings for a few seconds (I have lost a Mines game because their Zeratul prisoned their core to stop our golem from finishing it during a base race), and even protect your own team from persistent ults by the enemy.
It's stupid how good that spell is. It also stops a bunch of things that are otherwise unstoppable (that are normally only stopped by Tassadar's E otherwise) and can even stop a Hunting Illidan in his tracks if he flies over (which is hilarious). There is just no situation in which I'd not want Void Prison, even if I was the only damage dealer on the entire team.
EDIT: Also, like Ice Block, it prevents all CDs from running during the duration, which is no small thing. Especially relevant if you catch someone just after they use their mobility skill.
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So on a scale of 1 to 10 how ridiculous is nova right now ? 11 ? Seriously having a nova in every game just ruins the fun if you're not playing a warrior champion. I played a lot of valla, zagara, gazlowe, lili and I think I will stop playing this game because being dead in 2 seconds with no chance to counterplay just isn't ... fun ? I hope at least these nova players are having fun themselves...
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^ theres interview with Browder on reddit he says shes going to be nerfed, for now few things which helped me is to stay behind minions so she cant snipe you or keep walking zig zag when u see shimmering around so she cant hit her Q so easily
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If 1 is a little ridiculous and 10 is really ridiculous, a 0 because she's not ridiculous at all.
If you're playing solo queue and jungling alone with no escape and no location check on Nova, you deserve to die. It's like what chefs say about cutting yourself while cooking -- the pain doesn't come from the cut, it comes from the realization of your stupidity that led to the cut.
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I think Nova is kinda weak, pop her out of the stealth, blow her in 2 hits. If she starts rolling and plays cleanup she can be dangerous yes, but that can happen with many champs.
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EPT
