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So this is the 4th day since I've gotten into alpha and I haven't played it for 2 days. It feels like one of those mobile racing games where you grind and grind the same thing over and over to get that most expensive car... but when you actually get it you realize there is nothing left to do and you uninstall it without even driving the car.
The problems I stated here 3 days ago are still there, you can say its a different game to dota and that its more 'objective based' but the fact remains that there really isn't anything to do nor can you make a difference even if you are mechanically miles ahead of the other team. I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world. Thats what I get out of this game.
All 5 of you don't need to be good, only 1 guy needs to be good and know exactly what is going on. Its just not my cup of tea, I will check for patches but this game need fundamental changes for me to log into Battle.net again.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51458 Posts
On October 21 2014 19:00 Dismay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 17:39 Pandemona wrote:
Pretty much the only team left to be announced for the blizzcon invitational is the EG team right? Only team left to be "picked up" is Snowflake?
IdrA back on EG incoming?
Anyone got an idea when EG will announce their roster btw? Sometime this month is all I know. There was an 'October' in the hype video for a couple of frames. There was also 'he returns' so yeah, IdrA and LZ's team. I'm just curious if it's only a temporary thing for Blizzcon or if they're officially acquired for now.
Oh awesome, i didn't see the video :33333333
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On October 21 2014 19:08 zeo wrote:
So this is the 4th day since I've gotten into alpha and I haven't played it for 2 days. It feels like one of those mobile racing games where you grind and grind the same thing over and over to get that most expensive car... but when you actually get it you realize there is nothing left to do and you uninstall it without even driving the car.
The problems I stated here 3 days ago are still there, you can say its a different game to dota and that its more 'objective based' but the fact remains that there really isn't anything to do nor can you make a difference even if you are mechanically miles ahead of the other team. I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world. Thats what I get out of this game.
All 5 of you don't need to be good, only 1 guy needs to be good and know exactly what is going on. Its just not my cup of tea, I will check for patches but this game need fundamental changes for me to log into Battle.net again.
I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world
Then do it an earn the easy esports money..
Such an arrogant thing to say, srsly.
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On October 21 2014 19:08 zeo wrote:
So this is the 4th day since I've gotten into alpha and I haven't played it for 2 days. It feels like one of those mobile racing games where you grind and grind the same thing over and over to get that most expensive car... but when you actually get it you realize there is nothing left to do and you uninstall it without even driving the car.
The problems I stated here 3 days ago are still there, you can say its a different game to dota and that its more 'objective based' but the fact remains that there really isn't anything to do nor can you make a difference even if you are mechanically miles ahead of the other team. I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world. Thats what I get out of this game.
All 5 of you don't need to be good, only 1 guy needs to be good and know exactly what is going on. Its just not my cup of tea, I will check for patches but this game need fundamental changes for me to log into Battle.net again.
lol
no you couldn't.
stop talking
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the frustration of considering yourself good in a game that you think is superior and then you get destroyed on the low level in the other one and don't even want to try it anymore. Lots of games have stories like that.
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On October 21 2014 19:27 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 19:08 zeo wrote:
So this is the 4th day since I've gotten into alpha and I haven't played it for 2 days. It feels like one of those mobile racing games where you grind and grind the same thing over and over to get that most expensive car... but when you actually get it you realize there is nothing left to do and you uninstall it without even driving the car.
The problems I stated here 3 days ago are still there, you can say its a different game to dota and that its more 'objective based' but the fact remains that there really isn't anything to do nor can you make a difference even if you are mechanically miles ahead of the other team. I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world. Thats what I get out of this game.
All 5 of you don't need to be good, only 1 guy needs to be good and know exactly what is going on. Its just not my cup of tea, I will check for patches but this game need fundamental changes for me to log into Battle.net again. Show nested quote +I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world Then do it an earn the easy esports money.. Such an arrogant thing to say, srsly.
Just need one guy who knows what he's doing and you can beat a team much much more mechanically better than you (provided they don't have someone calling the shots). Maybe the 'beat any team in the world within a week' is stretching it a bit, would need a bit more time to gel properly. Its just the way the game is made, its in alpha. If it was perfect the way it is it wouldn't be in alpha.
On October 21 2014 20:27 FeyFey wrote:
the frustration of considering yourself good in a game that you think is superior and then you get destroyed on the low level in the other one and don't even want to try it anymore. Lots of games have stories like that.
I'm not good at dota, I'm 4k mmr.
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No, not at all. People play World of Tanks competitively with like 17 people watching, it's fine. Idra, specifically, is going from being a big name in a scene so competitive the top players are beyond the comprehension of even highly competent gamers to a scene with huge question marks attached. Competitively it's a huge step down. For me I look at him as a fallen professional and from that perspective it's pretty sad, "pathetic" if you will, but if you are looking at him as a person it's an entirely different discussion. He's not, like, the most well-liked dude in the world so how much empathy people have for his humanity will vary greatly.
I believe that World of Tanks is is a terrible esport becasue its just boring to watch, but that is somewhat irrelevant to its (mechanical) skill cap. When I look at Heroes of the Storm I definitely feel that it has many of the unpredictaiblity-moments from LOL and DOTA which adds alot of excitement to viewers. It's still a bit confusing to watch for new players, and this is where Sc2 has an advantage as its easier to watch as a new player. But I think - in terms of esport - it has an advantage over LOL/DOTA as the pace of the game seems much better.
That said, I still believe that you need to be able identify a high level of (mechanical/micro-based) skill of the players when watching it. I think that a big part of the excitement of watching Sc2, MOBA's/normal sports is that you can see when a player does something really impressive. If we look at last-hitting/denying/Sc2 macro-mechanics, I think neither is a particualrly interesting way of seperating player skill. I think stuff like casting an ability, and seeing the enemy try to avoid that ability while the enemy is also gearing up to make an attack is the most exciting way to increase the mechanical/micro-based skill cap.
So the problem I have with your thesis that HOTS has a low skill cap is that you haven't really argued why HOTS fails in this regard. Why does HOTS not have this micro-depht which could give it an almost infinitive skillcap?
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On October 21 2014 18:06 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 17:49 KeksX wrote:On October 21 2014 17:19 ahswtini wrote:On October 21 2014 15:16 KeksX wrote:
Question:
Will there be an "all heroes" mode? Or will it be a straight up copy of the LoL model where you have to buy new heroes even for competitive play?
Why would they do that when they already have heroes behind a paywall For tournaments, for example. Right, but if you're playing at a high enough level to be playing in tournaments, you have probably played long enough to have unlocked most heroes. At least that's how Riot justifies their model? Unless League has a tournament mode that I'm not aware of
There's a tournament client. I think the tournament has to request access to it and then they are able to give players codes to get on. Not 100% sure what the restrictions are on it. I know before LCS all the pros had access to it and weekly/monthly comps like TSM invitational was played on it.
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On October 21 2014 20:35 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 19:27 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 21 2014 19:08 zeo wrote:
So this is the 4th day since I've gotten into alpha and I haven't played it for 2 days. It feels like one of those mobile racing games where you grind and grind the same thing over and over to get that most expensive car... but when you actually get it you realize there is nothing left to do and you uninstall it without even driving the car.
The problems I stated here 3 days ago are still there, you can say its a different game to dota and that its more 'objective based' but the fact remains that there really isn't anything to do nor can you make a difference even if you are mechanically miles ahead of the other team. I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world. Thats what I get out of this game.
All 5 of you don't need to be good, only 1 guy needs to be good and know exactly what is going on. Its just not my cup of tea, I will check for patches but this game need fundamental changes for me to log into Battle.net again. I'm 4.1k in dota, if you got 3 other guys at my skill range and one super good captain on skype that could tell all of us exactly what to do at all times within a week of bootcamp we could beat any team in the world Then do it an earn the easy esports money.. Such an arrogant thing to say, srsly. Just need one guy who knows what he's doing and you can beat a team much much more mechanically better than you (provided they don't have someone calling the shots). Maybe the 'beat any team in the world within a week' is stretching it a bit, would need a bit more time to gel properly. Its just the way the game is made, its in alpha. If it was perfect the way it is it wouldn't be in alpha. Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 20:27 FeyFey wrote:
the frustration of considering yourself good in a game that you think is superior and then you get destroyed on the low level in the other one and don't even want to try it anymore. Lots of games have stories like that. I'm not good at dota, I'm 4k mmr.
So it is more about strategy and tactics? Why is that bad?
If two teams are on an even lvl strategically, mechanics still matter, no?
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Are we really having the discussion about how "I was really good at this other, objectively harder game, so I will totally be able to beat anyone at this game." discussion?
Was this not disproved by the SC2 to LoL switch? Or fucking logic that there might be people who are just as talented as you playing the game who never touched Dota? Or are you under the impression that getting to 4K in Dota gave you super powers?
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How do we deal with invisible heroes? I'm having problems with Nova and Zeratul at the moment.
Thanks
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On October 21 2014 22:14 Plansix wrote:
Are we really having the discussion about how "I was really good at this other, objectively harder game, so I will totally be able to beat anyone at this game." discussion?
Was this not disproved by the SC2 to LoL switch? Or fucking logic that there might be people who are just as talented as you playing the game who never touched Dota? Or are you under the impression that getting to 4K in Dota gave you super powers?
No, I clearly said I was not good at dota. 4k is nothing special.
The problem is that every game I played where all 5 of us knew what the objective of the game was and communicated we won, even with really really bad players on our team with reaction times of +3 sec. all you need to do is read chat and listen and you will have a 80%+ win rate. Any game where one guy (or more) goes off and does his own thing, no matter how many team-fights we won, how hard we try ect. we would lose.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence based on maybe 25 games, but this is just the overwhelming feeling I got playing this game. Nothing you do can really affect the game positively, only negatively. Other people being idiots will instantly ruin your game, which means the flaming and raging in this game will be 10x worse than in dota or lol.
I see that as a problem.
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On October 21 2014 23:18 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 22:14 Plansix wrote:
Are we really having the discussion about how "I was really good at this other, objectively harder game, so I will totally be able to beat anyone at this game." discussion?
Was this not disproved by the SC2 to LoL switch? Or fucking logic that there might be people who are just as talented as you playing the game who never touched Dota? Or are you under the impression that getting to 4K in Dota gave you super powers? No, I clearly said I was not good at dota. 4k is nothing special. The problem is that every game I played where all 5 of us knew what the objective of the game was and communicated we won, even with really really bad players on our team with reaction times of +3 sec. all you need to do is read chat and listen and you will have a 80%+ win rate. Any game where one guy (or more) goes off and does his own thing, no matter how many team-fights we won, how hard we try ect. we would lose. Yes, this is anecdotal evidence based on maybe 25 games, but this is just the overwhelming feeling I got playing this game. Nothing you do can really affect the game positively, only negatively. Other people being idiots will instantly ruin your game, which means the flaming and raging in this game will be 10x worse than in dota or lol. I see that as a problem.
Yes but what happens when both teams have that communication, that game knowledge, that leadership? You're in low MMR solo queue and are making judgements about the game as a whole.
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On October 21 2014 22:59 LennX wrote:
How do we deal with invisible heroes? I'm having problems with Nova and Zeratul at the moment.
Thanks
Said everyone.
Nova got a sweet buff, and now everyone and their mom is using her. She's very dangerous.
The best way to counter her (other than Starcraft eyes) is to not put yourself in a bad position. You *know* she has to pop somewhere, and usually you can figure out where you'd be if you were her. Zeratul is similar to dealing with any assassin, if your team jumps him when he open he just dies.
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On October 21 2014 22:59 LennX wrote:
How do we deal with invisible heroes? I'm having problems with Nova and Zeratul at the moment.
Thanks
Certain characters have detection. The one that naturally has it is Tassadar. The rest have to spec for it.
It's no different from SC2 cloaking where you can still see the distortion in the map. Just hit the distortion with any non-targeted ability and you will uncloak them.
Other than that, it comes down to positioning. Against Nova, you want to position yourself in the middle of friendly / neutral minions if possible. That way, her skill shot will not be able to hit you unless the Nova specs for it (unlikely). Other than that, you want to play conservatively or stick together.
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On October 21 2014 23:20 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 23:18 zeo wrote:On October 21 2014 22:14 Plansix wrote:
Are we really having the discussion about how "I was really good at this other, objectively harder game, so I will totally be able to beat anyone at this game." discussion?
Was this not disproved by the SC2 to LoL switch? Or fucking logic that there might be people who are just as talented as you playing the game who never touched Dota? Or are you under the impression that getting to 4K in Dota gave you super powers? No, I clearly said I was not good at dota. 4k is nothing special. The problem is that every game I played where all 5 of us knew what the objective of the game was and communicated we won, even with really really bad players on our team with reaction times of +3 sec. all you need to do is read chat and listen and you will have a 80%+ win rate. Any game where one guy (or more) goes off and does his own thing, no matter how many team-fights we won, how hard we try ect. we would lose. Yes, this is anecdotal evidence based on maybe 25 games, but this is just the overwhelming feeling I got playing this game. Nothing you do can really affect the game positively, only negatively. Other people being idiots will instantly ruin your game, which means the flaming and raging in this game will be 10x worse than in dota or lol. I see that as a problem. Yes but what happens when both teams have that communication, that game knowledge, that leadership? You're in low MMR solo queue and are making judgements about the game as a whole.
Also the game does the game match parties vs parties at this time? Because if you were a stack vs a bunch of random players, that might be pretty easy.
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On October 21 2014 22:59 LennX wrote:
How do we deal with invisible heroes? I'm having problems with Nova and Zeratul at the moment.
Thanks
If you're having trouble spotting the shimmer, it's always good to read the movements of your visible opponents. Typically their positioning will be a clear indicator of whether or not they have backup. At the end of the day, if you haven't seen them show in another lane within the last 20 seconds, stay in a safe position unless you have teammates around that can body block or burst them down if they go in on you. Also, play Tassadar 
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lol, you can't do anything to them when they cloak and there is a huge possibility for you to have no detection since you can't buy items and you can't counter pick or whatever. Fool-proof invis indeed.
It is not just about spotting them, chasing or hitting is very limited when someone cloak in front of your eyes. GL right clicking them.
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On October 21 2014 23:27 Laserist wrote:
lol, you can't do anything to them when they cloak and there is a huge possibility for you to have no detection since you can't buy items and you can't counter pick or whatever. Fool-proof invis indeed.
It is not just about spotting them, chasing or hitting is very limited when someone cloak in front of your eyes. GL right clicking them.
I agree. It's impossible to do anything against a stealth hero, other than knowing where they are...
...or using an AoE ability...
...or positioning yourself properly...
...or using common sense.
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On October 21 2014 23:27 Laserist wrote:
lol, you can't do anything to them when they cloak and there is a huge possibility for you to have no detection since you can't buy items and you can't counter pick or whatever. Fool-proof invis indeed.
It is not just about spotting them, chasing or hitting is very limited when someone cloak in front of your eyes. GL right clicking them.
A couple people just gave some easy ways to deal with invisibility. Of course you can't right click them. Use area of effect abilities on the spot where the shimmer is visible and they will be knocked out of stealth. You can also spec into detection as was already said. Please read the other comments before posting a confusing and misinformed rant
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EPT
