• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:40
CEST 11:40
KST 18:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call4[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week0Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212
StarCraft 2
General
How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru GSTL Returns in 2026!
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Toronto invitational lan 22 august Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4759 users

Heroes Large General Thread - Page 124

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
9055 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 122 123 124 125 126 453 Next
Add yourself in the TL Player list if you want to play with TL people, and /join teamliquid channel ingame. Also check out the new Heroes Liquipedia.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10939 Posts
September 17 2014 13:41 GMT
#2461
1. In Dota its actually not that uncommon to have 3-5 Items that grant some sort of ability...

2. Your bashing on Mobas being there because WC3 was to hard on People is just stupid. American Football and Rugby probably also exist because it was too demanding for people to use their foot on the ball...
Mobas exist becaues: Controlling a super strong unit is fun (most RTS got missions which consist entirely of this, Diablo 1+2 and other games consist entirely of this... Mobas just transported this into a competetive multiplayer enivorement and WC3 gave People an easy enough useable Editor and the Bnet to make it happen).

3.
HotS is about skill in making the right decisions as a team, e.g. to get objectives, or push, or to get mercenary camps or to fight, and skill in winning team fights by landing skill-shot, having correct positioning, and engaging and picking off the opponents at the right time.


That goes for about every Moba ever, Hots just gives more "direct" benefit instead of just Gold for accomplishing things like "killing neutrals".
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
September 17 2014 13:42 GMT
#2462
On September 17 2014 22:28 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2014 19:21 Spaylz wrote:
I'm sure you are the sole and only reason they made that change, paralleluniverse.

It doesn't really matter whether or not I was the sole reason for the change.


Don't downplay yourself; it was 100% you and you deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 17 2014 13:54 GMT
#2463
The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.

Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 14:18:56
September 17 2014 14:15 GMT
#2464
On September 17 2014 22:54 Plansix wrote:
The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.

Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do.

Exactly. I completely agree with every word here. So now you finally accept by argument as fact, despite having relentlessly bashed me for it a month ago?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 17 2014 14:23 GMT
#2465
On September 17 2014 23:15 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2014 22:54 Plansix wrote:
The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.

Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do.

So now you finally accept by argument as fact, despite having relentlessly bashed me for it a month ago? I completely agree with every word here.

No, because your arguments suck and you use useless, made up graphs to attempt to prove the point that Dota and LoL are "flawed games". Your argument went much further to the point where you would argue the kazoo is as difficult to play as the flute or guitar.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10939 Posts
September 17 2014 14:49 GMT
#2466
Just fyi... Instruments have differing difficulties to play from a mechanical standpoint.

Clarinette is harder than Saxophone and Harp is harder than Guitar... Really, why even bring this up? This obviously doesn’t matter among « masters », their skills seldomly is „the best mechanical play“, its more about interpretation and expression.
Mechanically i was a pretty good Saxophon player, too bad my feeling for rythm and everything else « music » was and is horrible, so i was an all things considered horrible Saxophone player. I love music, but i can’t play it for shit, i’m like an anti-talent and my fingers have nothing to do with this « issue ».

Its the same for games. Dota is mechniacally harder then Hots or Lol. On the top level the diffrence won’t matter much anymore because decision making gets way more important and the mechanical possibilites are nowhere near SC2 levels, but for most of us everyday scrubs the diffrences in mechanical requirements to achieve certain things remain important and noticeable.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 15:01:13
September 17 2014 14:59 GMT
#2467
Whatever makes people feel better. I am just pointing out that athletes and musicians do not have the dick waving discussions about who's given sport/instruments is harder or more difficult with the same level of tribalism as people playing competitive video games. A guitar player may say that the guitar is more difficult that the bass, but the difference in difficultly is minor and not really worth discussing. And no one argues that the bass is not a worth while instrument.

Its a really silly discussion about about which of the challenging, competitive video games requires the most clicks to be good at and then claiming that the games with requiring few clicks are less "challenging".
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10939 Posts
September 17 2014 15:06 GMT
#2468
Agree with that part
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
September 17 2014 15:44 GMT
#2469
On September 17 2014 22:54 Plansix wrote:
The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.

Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do.


You realize that i am talking about the mechanical skill of stacking a camp. I stand by my point that the difficulty of that is just the strategic or tactic value of the action, and knowledge of the timing. Not mechanical skill, the mechanical skill to perform a certain action has almost nothing to due with the opponent. Unless we have different definition of mechanical skill.


The difficulty of winning the game is indeed based of your opponents skill, i agree with you on that. But that doesn't mean that performing certain actions in game has anything to do with your opponents.
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10052 Posts
September 17 2014 17:51 GMT
#2470
etc needs a damage buff.. -_-
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
September 17 2014 18:01 GMT
#2471
I don't know about that. His burst damage is low but he's pretty damn good at staying alive long enough to do decent damage over time. His damage could be better... but at least it's not as bad as Chen.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
September 17 2014 18:05 GMT
#2472
ETC is all about the crowd control and AoE group healing, he's probably the truest "tank" in the game apart from Diablo. He's really, really horrible in 1v1 though. I think Groupies and the "Extra damage + heal on auto after using E" talents are absolutely mandatory.
Spaylz
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan1743 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 18:11:09
September 17 2014 18:08 GMT
#2473
On September 17 2014 22:28 paralleluniverse wrote:
There's almost no mechanical skill required in HotS, or any MOBA for that matter. This isn't SC2 where you micro 100 units while macroing with 10 production buildings at the same time.

In a MOBA, you control 1 unit, with at most 4 active abilities, which typically have a 10 second cooldown, meaning that you will at most use like 0.4 actions per second in casting spells. Sure, you might do some clicking to move around or auto-attack, but the mechanical skill required is very, very low. Indeed, the genre was initially popularized by people who lacked the mechanical skills to play WC3. 3 heroes and 20 unit armies was too hard mechanically, 1 single hero is easier for them.

HotS is about skill in making the right decisions as a team, e.g. to get objectives, or push, or to get mercenary camps or to fight, and having the skill to win team fights against the opponent by landing skill-shots, having correct positioning, and engaging and picking off the opponents at the right time.

Show nested quote +
On September 17 2014 19:21 Spaylz wrote:
I'm sure you are the sole and only reason they made that change, paralleluniverse.

It doesn't really matter whether or not I was the sole reason for the change.


That's just BS. DotA didn't become popular because it was simpler than WC3, it became popular because it was fun and new. It's worlds apart from WC3: you have only one hero (and no, some heroes have up to 6 skills + 6 items which can also give you abilities) and you get to wreck stuff.

WC3 was about strategy, placement, micro, macro, timing... Many factors indeed, which we also find in DotA. It's not necessarly harder, just different. The one HUGE difference is the fact that DotA is a team game, whereas WC3 was largely solo and 2v2. The team aspect is what really makes DotA what it is.

Also, playing the violin is much, much harder than playing the guitar. The one true thing is that musicians don't bother stroking their e-peens over such trivial things, because it's pointless.
I like words.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10052 Posts
September 17 2014 18:23 GMT
#2474
On September 18 2014 03:05 deth2munkies wrote:
ETC is all about the crowd control and AoE group healing, he's probably the truest "tank" in the game apart from Diablo. He's really, really horrible in 1v1 though. I think Groupies and the "Extra damage + heal on auto after using E" talents are absolutely mandatory.


dont think u can ever pass up on pwn shop guitar at lvl 4
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
September 17 2014 18:48 GMT
#2475
On September 18 2014 03:23 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2014 03:05 deth2munkies wrote:
ETC is all about the crowd control and AoE group healing, he's probably the truest "tank" in the game apart from Diablo. He's really, really horrible in 1v1 though. I think Groupies and the "Extra damage + heal on auto after using E" talents are absolutely mandatory.


dont think u can ever pass up on pwn shop guitar at lvl 4


It's sustain vs. impact. I tend towards the side of impact. With Groupies, I tend to end up just under the dedicated healer on teamfight heavy maps like Raven Lord. Yes, I do run out of mana in extended teamfights and I tend not to spam my abilities on creep waves in order to conserve mana, but I think that's a fine trade off for the amount of healing I do.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 17 2014 18:52 GMT
#2476
Groupies can be crazy, it's A LOT of healing. I always thought it was an auto pick on ETC
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Joedaddy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1948 Posts
September 17 2014 19:30 GMT
#2477
Has Heroes of the Storm released? or is it in open beta? I see that I can install it from bnet launcher....
I might be the minority on TL, but TL is the minority everywhere else.
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
September 17 2014 19:32 GMT
#2478
It's in alpha.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
September 17 2014 20:24 GMT
#2479
Had a fun chat with a Triple Tap Nova after carrying him to a win (pulled off a last second backdoor with Gazlowe. <3 OP robot form). Apparently he's a semi-pro with Nova, even though he went mana regen, Triple Tap, and Fury of the Storm. He informed me that it was rude of me to ping him on the map and give him directions on what to do/where to be on the map, and he quit playing League of Legends because there were too many people trying to be leaders and he didn't need their help.

He went on to tell me that I wasn't qualified to ping the map because his data showed that my MMR was only 0.913, which meant I was terrible. Upon asking where he got this information, he said it was his source. I politely informed him that his ass was not a valid source, and the only MMR tracker out there had me at 3400 MMR while he was at 1700 MMR. He called me a "faggot" and logged off.

That's my story for today.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
KadaverBB
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany25658 Posts
September 17 2014 21:38 GMT
#2480
Serejai please stop turning this into a QQ thread
AdministratorLaws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice
Prev 1 122 123 124 125 126 453 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38660
Bisu 1215
Jaedong 920
Hyuk 357
EffOrt 112
Aegong 84
ToSsGirL 76
Dewaltoss 75
Mind 61
Pusan 52
[ Show more ]
Sharp 36
sSak 34
Shine 29
Rush 27
Bale 26
yabsab 24
Sacsri 18
soO 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Free 7
League of Legends
JimRising 459
Counter-Strike
edward64
Other Games
singsing1589
crisheroes191
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick455
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH387
• LUISG 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Light_VIP 27
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV399
• lizZardDota2138
League of Legends
• Rush1519
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
20m
hero vs ggaemo
Larva vs Mong
The Patches Monday
6h 35m
Afreeca Starleague
1d
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
1d 1h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 14h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-23
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.