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1. In Dota its actually not that uncommon to have 3-5 Items that grant some sort of ability...
2. Your bashing on Mobas being there because WC3 was to hard on People is just stupid. American Football and Rugby probably also exist because it was too demanding for people to use their foot on the ball...
Mobas exist becaues: Controlling a super strong unit is fun (most RTS got missions which consist entirely of this, Diablo 1+2 and other games consist entirely of this... Mobas just transported this into a competetive multiplayer enivorement and WC3 gave People an easy enough useable Editor and the Bnet to make it happen).
3. HotS is about skill in making the right decisions as a team, e.g. to get objectives, or push, or to get mercenary camps or to fight, and skill in winning team fights by landing skill-shot, having correct positioning, and engaging and picking off the opponents at the right time.
That goes for about every Moba ever, Hots just gives more "direct" benefit instead of just Gold for accomplishing things like "killing neutrals".
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On September 17 2014 22:28 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 19:21 Spaylz wrote:
I'm sure you are the sole and only reason they made that change, paralleluniverse. It doesn't really matter whether or not I was the sole reason for the change.
Don't downplay yourself; it was 100% you and you deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.
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The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.
Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do.
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On September 17 2014 22:54 Plansix wrote:
The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.
Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do.
Exactly. I completely agree with every word here. So now you finally accept by argument as fact, despite having relentlessly bashed me for it a month ago?
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On September 17 2014 23:15 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 22:54 Plansix wrote:
The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.
Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do. So now you finally accept by argument as fact, despite having relentlessly bashed me for it a month ago? I completely agree with every word here.
No, because your arguments suck and you use useless, made up graphs to attempt to prove the point that Dota and LoL are "flawed games". Your argument went much further to the point where you would argue the kazoo is as difficult to play as the flute or guitar.
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Just fyi... Instruments have differing difficulties to play from a mechanical standpoint.
Clarinette is harder than Saxophone and Harp is harder than Guitar... Really, why even bring this up? This obviously doesn’t matter among « masters », their skills seldomly is „the best mechanical play“, its more about interpretation and expression.
Mechanically i was a pretty good Saxophon player, too bad my feeling for rythm and everything else « music » was and is horrible, so i was an all things considered horrible Saxophone player. I love music, but i can’t play it for shit, i’m like an anti-talent and my fingers have nothing to do with this « issue ».
Its the same for games. Dota is mechniacally harder then Hots or Lol. On the top level the diffrence won’t matter much anymore because decision making gets way more important and the mechanical possibilites are nowhere near SC2 levels, but for most of us everyday scrubs the diffrences in mechanical requirements to achieve certain things remain important and noticeable.
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Whatever makes people feel better. I am just pointing out that athletes and musicians do not have the dick waving discussions about who's given sport/instruments is harder or more difficult with the same level of tribalism as people playing competitive video games. A guitar player may say that the guitar is more difficult that the bass, but the difference in difficultly is minor and not really worth discussing. And no one argues that the bass is not a worth while instrument.
Its a really silly discussion about about which of the challenging, competitive video games requires the most clicks to be good at and then claiming that the games with requiring few clicks are less "challenging".
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Agree with that part 
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On September 17 2014 22:54 Plansix wrote:
The metric of "number of clicks required" as a measurement of skill is as pointless as claiming the number of time the ball bounces in a game dictates how hard the game is. Playing the harp is not more or less challenging than playing the guitar or flute.
Competitive games are hard because there is another person on the other side trying to beat you with the same tool set you have. The game doesn't make the game hard, your opponents do.
You realize that i am talking about the mechanical skill of stacking a camp. I stand by my point that the difficulty of that is just the strategic or tactic value of the action, and knowledge of the timing. Not mechanical skill, the mechanical skill to perform a certain action has almost nothing to due with the opponent. Unless we have different definition of mechanical skill.
The difficulty of winning the game is indeed based of your opponents skill, i agree with you on that. But that doesn't mean that performing certain actions in game has anything to do with your opponents.
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etc needs a damage buff.. -_-
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I don't know about that. His burst damage is low but he's pretty damn good at staying alive long enough to do decent damage over time. His damage could be better... but at least it's not as bad as Chen.
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ETC is all about the crowd control and AoE group healing, he's probably the truest "tank" in the game apart from Diablo. He's really, really horrible in 1v1 though. I think Groupies and the "Extra damage + heal on auto after using E" talents are absolutely mandatory.
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On September 17 2014 22:28 paralleluniverse wrote:There's almost no mechanical skill required in HotS, or any MOBA for that matter. This isn't SC2 where you micro 100 units while macroing with 10 production buildings at the same time. In a MOBA, you control 1 unit, with at most 4 active abilities, which typically have a 10 second cooldown, meaning that you will at most use like 0.4 actions per second in casting spells. Sure, you might do some clicking to move around or auto-attack, but the mechanical skill required is very, very low. Indeed, the genre was initially popularized by people who lacked the mechanical skills to play WC3. 3 heroes and 20 unit armies was too hard mechanically, 1 single hero is easier for them. HotS is about skill in making the right decisions as a team, e.g. to get objectives, or push, or to get mercenary camps or to fight, and having the skill to win team fights against the opponent by landing skill-shots, having correct positioning, and engaging and picking off the opponents at the right time. Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 19:21 Spaylz wrote:
I'm sure you are the sole and only reason they made that change, paralleluniverse. It doesn't really matter whether or not I was the sole reason for the change.
That's just BS. DotA didn't become popular because it was simpler than WC3, it became popular because it was fun and new. It's worlds apart from WC3: you have only one hero (and no, some heroes have up to 6 skills + 6 items which can also give you abilities) and you get to wreck stuff.
WC3 was about strategy, placement, micro, macro, timing... Many factors indeed, which we also find in DotA. It's not necessarly harder, just different. The one HUGE difference is the fact that DotA is a team game, whereas WC3 was largely solo and 2v2. The team aspect is what really makes DotA what it is.
Also, playing the violin is much, much harder than playing the guitar. The one true thing is that musicians don't bother stroking their e-peens over such trivial things, because it's pointless.
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On September 18 2014 03:05 deth2munkies wrote:
ETC is all about the crowd control and AoE group healing, he's probably the truest "tank" in the game apart from Diablo. He's really, really horrible in 1v1 though. I think Groupies and the "Extra damage + heal on auto after using E" talents are absolutely mandatory.
dont think u can ever pass up on pwn shop guitar at lvl 4
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On September 18 2014 03:23 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2014 03:05 deth2munkies wrote:
ETC is all about the crowd control and AoE group healing, he's probably the truest "tank" in the game apart from Diablo. He's really, really horrible in 1v1 though. I think Groupies and the "Extra damage + heal on auto after using E" talents are absolutely mandatory. dont think u can ever pass up on pwn shop guitar at lvl 4
It's sustain vs. impact. I tend towards the side of impact. With Groupies, I tend to end up just under the dedicated healer on teamfight heavy maps like Raven Lord. Yes, I do run out of mana in extended teamfights and I tend not to spam my abilities on creep waves in order to conserve mana, but I think that's a fine trade off for the amount of healing I do.
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Groupies can be crazy, it's A LOT of healing. I always thought it was an auto pick on ETC
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Has Heroes of the Storm released? or is it in open beta? I see that I can install it from bnet launcher....
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Had a fun chat with a Triple Tap Nova after carrying him to a win (pulled off a last second backdoor with Gazlowe. <3 OP robot form). Apparently he's a semi-pro with Nova, even though he went mana regen, Triple Tap, and Fury of the Storm. He informed me that it was rude of me to ping him on the map and give him directions on what to do/where to be on the map, and he quit playing League of Legends because there were too many people trying to be leaders and he didn't need their help.
He went on to tell me that I wasn't qualified to ping the map because his data showed that my MMR was only 0.913, which meant I was terrible. Upon asking where he got this information, he said it was his source. I politely informed him that his ass was not a valid source, and the only MMR tracker out there had me at 3400 MMR while he was at 1700 MMR. He called me a "faggot" and logged off.
That's my story for today.
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Germany25657 Posts
Serejai please stop turning this into a QQ thread 
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EPT
