Cthun looks awesome golden. They said in testing they got him to 20/20 pretty easily which is kinda worrying
But you have to have to build your deck around him right? That can be a rather big weakness of your deck
that is correct but thus far we've seen a 2 mana 2/3 and a 3 mana 3/4 that you have to play, that's not really that bad, especially the 3-drop. compare that to Anyfin Paladin, they have to play 5 bad cards and 2 combo cards and the deck doesn't lose to control ever.
On March 12 2016 03:46 Schelim wrote: Gnomish Inventor is a far superior card to the new Loot Hoarder. her stat split is superior and her effect is a battlecry, meaing you draw the card earlier, she can't get silenced, and you can't risk your opponent making you overdraw.
I see your point in that a battlecry effect is strictly better than a deathrattle one, and that is certainly true. but now wether a 2/4 is a better stat split than a 4/2 is definitely arguable. a 2/4 is certainly better a trading down with 2 and 3 drops but it is really bad at same mana trade (compare trading it into Piloted Shredder, Yeti, Sen'jin etc...) Now the 4/2 will also trade unevenly with those 4 drops (as is expected from card that draws: exchanging tempo with value) but that usually leaves them in pinging territory. a 4/2 is also stronger for trading up while the 2/4 body is nearly pas the Turn 4. It is too soon to know what will be the statistical expected stats on the different mana points so it is too soon to say. But If I where to play one of those 2 in the current environment where the 4 slot is dominated by the Shredder I will definitely choose the 4/2 over the 2/4. especially taking into account that most of the expected 3 drops are 2/4 or 3/4.
We will see but I still think this card will have it's place. At the very least it will be a really good pick in Arena.
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I have a feeling that it'll be hard to get him that high.
Besides, we already have a 10 mana clear board finisher card right now called Deathwing and it doesn't win the game by itself. Both die to BGH, both can be stopped with Taunt or removal, and C'thun can even be silenced.
There's a pretty big difference between the two cards. Deathwing clears the board and then may get BGH'd or removed some other way. C'Thun can potentially win the game with his battlecry.
That said...
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I don't see it being incredibly powerful to the point of needing a nerf. In order for it to get big enough to win through its battlecry, the player has likely drawn through and played most of their deck to buff it. I'm guessing they are okay with OTK possibilities with those restrictions, as the opponent has had all the time in the world to win by then.
We also don't know how powerful these yet-to-be-announced cards will be. They could have some pretty terrible stats/cost or some could be class cards, which limits other classes.
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I have a feeling that it'll be hard to get him that high.
Besides, we already have a 10 mana clear board finisher card right now called Deathwing and it doesn't win the game by itself. Both die to BGH, both can be stopped with Taunt or removal, and C'thun can even be silenced.
There's a pretty big difference between the two cards. Deathwing clears the board and then may get BGH'd or removed some other way. C'Thun can potentially win the game with his battlecry.
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I don't see it being incredibly powerful to the point of needing a nerf. In order for it to get big enough to win through its battlecry, the player has likely drawn through and played most of their deck to buff it. I'm guessing they are okay with OTK possibilities with those restrictions, as the opponent has had all the time in the world to win by then.
The biggest thing is there are only specific cards that buff C'thun.
While you can use Brann and bounce effects and Gang Up / Resurrect to get more out of C'Thun (I'm blanking on which are going to be WIld-only atm), it's still not free to play these cards, you gotta stretch the game out to keep buffing C'Thun.
What turn is C'thun hitting 20/20? 30/30? I'm willing to bet it's way past turn 10. I think an OTK that comes that late it fine for the game (which I would assume was their logic for adding Anyfin). So even if C'Thun has OTK potential, it isn't going to be on-curve and give the opponent both plenty of tells and time to respond.
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I have a feeling that it'll be hard to get him that high.
Besides, we already have a 10 mana clear board finisher card right now called Deathwing and it doesn't win the game by itself. Both die to BGH, both can be stopped with Taunt or removal, and C'thun can even be silenced.
There's a pretty big difference between the two cards. Deathwing clears the board and then may get BGH'd or removed some other way. C'Thun can potentially win the game with his battlecry.
That said...
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I don't see it being incredibly powerful to the point of needing a nerf. In order for it to get big enough to win through its battlecry, the player has likely drawn through and played most of their deck to buff it. I'm guessing they are okay with OTK possibilities with those restrictions, as the opponent has had all the time in the world to win by then.
The biggest thing is there are only specific cards that buff C'thun.
While you can use Brann and bounce effects and Gang Up / Resurrect to get more out of C'Thun (I'm blanking on which are going to be WIld-only atm), it's still not free to play these cards, you gotta stretch the game out to keep buffing C'Thun.
What turn is C'thun hitting 20/20? 30/30? I'm willing to bet it's way past turn 10. I think an OTK that comes that late it fine for the game (which I would assume was their logic for adding Anyfin). So even if C'Thun has OTK potential, it isn't going to be on-curve and give the opponent both plenty of tells and time to respond.
Any card that buffs C'thun before he enters battle will buff his battlecry *cough* The Mistcaller *cough*
Confirmed to be a continuous effect so he won't follow the rules and will barge in and find your secrets showing no Humility in doing so and after trading into your minions he gets a free heal by his buddy Crazed Alchemist
On March 12 2016 03:46 Schelim wrote: Gnomish Inventor is a far superior card to the new Loot Hoarder. her stat split is superior and her effect is a battlecry, meaing you draw the card earlier, she can't get silenced, and you can't risk your opponent making you overdraw.
I see your point in that a battlecry effect is strictly better than a deathrattle one, and that is certainly true. but now wether a 2/4 is a better stat split than a 4/2 is definitely arguable. a 2/4 is certainly better a trading down with 2 and 3 drops but it is really bad at same mana trade (compare trading it into Piloted Shredder, Yeti, Sen'jin etc...) Now the 4/2 will also trade unevenly with those 4 drops (as is expected from card that draws: exchanging tempo with value) but that usually leaves them in pinging territory. a 4/2 is also stronger for trading up while the 2/4 body is nearly pas the Turn 4. It is too soon to know what will be the statistical expected stats on the different mana points so it is too soon to say. But If I where to play one of those 2 in the current environment where the 4 slot is dominated by the Shredder I will definitely choose the 4/2 over the 2/4. especially taking into account that most of the expected 3 drops are 2/4 or 3/4.
We will see but I still think this card will have it's place. At the very least it will be a really good pick in Arena.
BC is NOT strictly better than DR. It IS better for cycle cards though.
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I have a feeling that it'll be hard to get him that high.
Besides, we already have a 10 mana clear board finisher card right now called Deathwing and it doesn't win the game by itself. Both die to BGH, both can be stopped with Taunt or removal, and C'thun can even be silenced.
There's a pretty big difference between the two cards. Deathwing clears the board and then may get BGH'd or removed some other way. C'Thun can potentially win the game with his battlecry.
That said...
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I don't see it being incredibly powerful to the point of needing a nerf. In order for it to get big enough to win through its battlecry, the player has likely drawn through and played most of their deck to buff it. I'm guessing they are okay with OTK possibilities with those restrictions, as the opponent has had all the time in the world to win by then.
The biggest thing is there are only specific cards that buff C'thun.
While you can use Brann and bounce effects and Gang Up / Resurrect to get more out of C'Thun (I'm blanking on which are going to be WIld-only atm), it's still not free to play these cards, you gotta stretch the game out to keep buffing C'Thun.
What turn is C'thun hitting 20/20? 30/30? I'm willing to bet it's way past turn 10. I think an OTK that comes that late it fine for the game (which I would assume was their logic for adding Anyfin). So even if C'Thun has OTK potential, it isn't going to be on-curve and give the opponent both plenty of tells and time to respond.
Any card that buffs C'thun before he enters battle will buff his battlecry *cough* The Mistcaller *cough*
My guestimates was with that in mind.
So far Beckoner is +2/+2 and Elder is +1/+1 (late game this isn't getting more than one proc off). If you're relying on bounce effects you still have to deal with the mana costs outside using Shadowstep which will slow down how fast you can play these minions.
The fastest way to buff is using Brann + Beckoner's t7+ to get him up +8/+8 in one turn (more with Shadowstep if we want to tailor the hand some more).
How often will you survive long enough to collect that combo though? I'm not entirely sure, but I know Miracle Rogue was killed by pushing Gadgetzan from T5 to T6 (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/15490329072) so I don't think it's a gimme that collecting late game combos is something you can rely on.
Depending on what other ways there are to buff C'Thun I don't think this is comparable to Anyfin either since Murlocs have always been aggo-centricl and so far the Beckoner and Elder do not look like they fit that archetype at all.
Also, according to Trump there's a counter on the board so both players can see how big C'thun is getting. That'll neuter some of the OTK potential by tipping off what you gotta play around too. But I still think the main thing is, C'Thun isn't going to be OTK-ing often on T10.
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I have a feeling that it'll be hard to get him that high.
Besides, we already have a 10 mana clear board finisher card right now called Deathwing and it doesn't win the game by itself. Both die to BGH, both can be stopped with Taunt or removal, and C'thun can even be silenced.
There's a pretty big difference between the two cards. Deathwing clears the board and then may get BGH'd or removed some other way. C'Thun can potentially win the game with his battlecry.
That said...
On March 12 2016 03:50 Freezard wrote: Is it just me or is C'Thon going to be yet another OTK card that's going to be nerfed later on? I mean you could probably buff it enough so it becomes a 30/30 and it will kill the opponent with the battlecry alone. And if the enemy doesn't have an answer the minion itself will just seal the deal.
I don't see it being incredibly powerful to the point of needing a nerf. In order for it to get big enough to win through its battlecry, the player has likely drawn through and played most of their deck to buff it. I'm guessing they are okay with OTK possibilities with those restrictions, as the opponent has had all the time in the world to win by then.
The biggest thing is there are only specific cards that buff C'thun.
While you can use Brann and bounce effects and Gang Up / Resurrect to get more out of C'Thun (I'm blanking on which are going to be WIld-only atm), it's still not free to play these cards, you gotta stretch the game out to keep buffing C'Thun.
What turn is C'thun hitting 20/20? 30/30? I'm willing to bet it's way past turn 10. I think an OTK that comes that late it fine for the game (which I would assume was their logic for adding Anyfin). So even if C'Thun has OTK potential, it isn't going to be on-curve and give the opponent both plenty of tells and time to respond.
Any card that buffs C'thun before he enters battle will buff his battlecry *cough* The Mistcaller *cough*
My guestimates was with that in mind.
So far Beckoner is +2/+2 and Elder is +1/+1 (late game this isn't getting more than one proc off). If you're relying on bounce effects you still have to deal with the mana costs outside using Shadowstep which will slow down how fast you can play these minions.
The fastest way to buff is using Brann + Beckoner's t7+ to get him up +8/+8 in one turn (more with Shadowstep if we want to tailor the hand some more).
How often will you survive long enough to collect that combo though? I'm not entirely sure, but I know Miracle Rogue was killed by pushing Gadgetzan from T5 to T6 (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/15490329072) so I don't think it's a gimme that collecting late game combos is something you can rely on.
Depending on what other ways there are to buff C'Thun I don't think this is comparable to Anyfin either since Murlocs have always been aggo-centricl and so far the Beckoner and Elder do not look like they fit that archetype at all.
Also, according to Trump there's a counter on the board so both players can see how big C'thun is getting. That'll neuter some of the OTK potential by tipping off what you gotta play around too. But I still think the main thing is, C'Thun isn't going to be OTK-ing often on T10.
Whenever you play a Cthun minion a animation will play showing Cthun growing stronger. It isn't constantly there though
EPT![[image loading]](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/GJH9FUM2DNNG1457634911156.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FCjNqeT.png)
![[image loading]](https://i-cdn.embed.ly/1/display?key=fd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13&url=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FhAhDqcq.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JZaM6Vo.jpg)
