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On March 13 2016 07:33 Noidberg wrote:
Stand against darkness is basically a reprint of muster but way worse -_-. Its also a worse ball of spiders in that its obviously not a tempo card its a 5 mana 5/5 without the bonus effect ball has so whats the point. I would rather have muster for the flexibility of a turn 3 play and about the same effect late game with hero power. Also theres no QM in standard so yeah....whats the point.
Im pretty disappointed with this is expansion so far from the distant release date to the lack of innovation. I suppose standard is something to look forward just because its different but otherwise meh. They should spend more time on new features like 2v2, new card effects, a real chat system and auto squelsh not "deck recipes" and the usual expansion fluff.
We don´t know if there is a corrupted Quartermaster or another card in the new set that interacts with Stand against Darkness. Also we have seen only 7 cards from 134. That´s almost nothing. Chill out people. There is a lot more to come. And not every expansion/adventure needs a new Mechanic when it gets rotated out after 1 year anyways.
And Deck Recipes are a good thing. I consider myself an advanced player (playing since around October 2014) but I still need Help with Deckbuilding.It´s really good for players that want to learn this. While there are sites and forums to do this, not everyone want´s to do this (and most of the sites are English which makes it difficult for non-English speakers) and rather have an Ingame Option. It´s also nice to see how the Devs would make Decks (I was so excited when Ben Brode showed his own Decks a few months ago).
I also have to agree with Catch22. Stop this negativity guys. It´s okay to discuss and tell others your opinion but constant negativity and complaining also ruins others people experience. I was a bit disappointent too and personally Im more excited for the Recipes. But this might also change with upcoming updates. Hearthstone is making a big step towards the future but it needs one step at a time. Im sure they will refine and tweak the experience with new modes or other things besides expansions/addons
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On March 13 2016 06:14 Hryul wrote:
what makes this worse than Muster for Battle is the quasi non existant synergy with Knife Juggler.
Muster for Battle is much easier to synergize with Knife Juggler than this. and it's negative tempo vs Swipe. Not too hyped.
Pretty certain Knife Juggler going to see a nerf anyway. At least i hope so. Hate that card.
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On March 13 2016 01:26 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +Cthun looks like a really well-designed card, to me. He has a significant amount of value when played, being able to basically boardwipe while leaving a strong body behind, but costs 10 to make up for it. It's one of the reasonable uses of 10 mana in this game, alongside Anyfin, Varian, and Deathwing, because they all create a formidable board presence while having an immediate effect on the boardstate (barring Varian, who is supported by Warrior's crazy lifegain). Even better, Cthun isn't just an automatic turn 10 play, which means that the game isn't going to come down to whether you were lucky enough to draw into Wild Growth Wild Growth Innervate Innervate for a turn 4 Cthun. You need to build up to it, which makes it a serious choice whether you want to play it early for immediate value or save it until later. And, most of all, the build-up involves playing minions which are perfectly acceptable on curve, much like Anyfin Paladin does. Those 2/3s and 3/4s are going to trade in with solid efficiency, buying time to reach Cthun. It's exactly the kind of minion combat that Blizzard was hoping to encourage. Let's not forget that, after all, Cthun can be answered, either. It's not an instant win card, and it's not a plain dies-to-removal card either. All in all, I think it lends itself to long, interesting games. I really hope it turns out to be strong enough to play, and that the other Old Gods are designed with the same finesse. Without some serious borderline broken buffs giving C'thun charge, double attack or greatly reduced mana cost, he will not be playable in constructed. His closest relative now is actually Rhonin which has: -Lower mana cost -9 dmg spread, probably to be used before turm 10 -Comparable body -Can be played without any setup -Strong synergy with Archmage Antonidas, spell damage and Flamewalker Still, Rhonin is not fast and good enough to make it into competive decks, he was tried extensively in tempo mage! Anyfin is another comparison, but you can run 2, and if you get to play the 2nd one, you almost have guaranteed the win. That is not the case with C'Thun...
The comparison does appear to be apt. Let me take the opportunity to compare another pair of very similar cards: Novice Engineer and Loot Hoarder. Back when Novice Engineer had an acceptable body for its cost, it was played in almost every deck, while Loot Hoarder was almost never played. It would have been silly to ever play Loot Hoarder over Novice Engineer, even though 2/1 is generally better in terms of having board presence. The reason for this was simple: Battlecry effects are far, far more powerful than Deathrattle effects, because they happen immediately instead of at some later date. In truth, C'thun has a huge advantage over Rhonin, because it allows you to gain control of the board instead of abandoning it. If you play Rhonin and your opponent has the board advantage, they can BGH, make favorable trades if necessary, hit face, and develop their board further. They even have the dream play of Owl->BGH, which spends 5 mana to completely eliminate 8 mana and has the further upside of two solid bodies. If you play C'thun, they have to develop their board over from the beginning, even if they can counter the tempo with BGH. So, I agree that we should compare them, and if we do, we realize that C'thun simply uses stronger mechanics. I mean, could you imagine how unplayable BGH would be if its Battlecry was a Deathrattle? Also, as it so happens, we have an even better comparison we can make: Deathwing. Deathwing costs 10 mana, check, has a massive body, check, and clears board on entering play. It is currently playable in a very particular Warrior list, although just barely. Its downsides are that it destroys your board and your hand. C'thun only requires you play some very decent cards, meaning you can play it when you're ahead on board or cards as well. If Deathwing is barely playable, wouldn't the (generally, not strictly) superior C'thun be acceptably playable? Is there a mistake in reasoning here?
Will it see play? That's not guaranteed, even if the format turns out to be slow and grindy. But it certainly has an advantage over Rhonin, and even has the amusing potential to work well in Rogue with Brann, Conceal, Preparation, and Shadowstep. I think you're underestimating the card massively. Don't you remember back when people played Goblin Blastmage or even Avenging Wrath? Four damage and eight damage respectively, and they still had the tendency of wiping the board. We're seeing a card that hits upwards of ten damage, and which only requires you to play perfectly acceptable on-curve minions in order to work. You're paying four mana and an insignificant design concession for a potentially game-ending body. That's not something that can be dismissed offhand. Of course, everything will depend on the meta in the end, but I think you ought to consider your position more carefully.
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Agree with Acritter's wall of stuff. The cultists we've seen so far are perfectly playable, considering the payoff. Barring something huge that somehow prevents it, I fully expect a Rogue combo deck abusing Brann, and depending on what else we see other classes might have some way to bring C'Thun to the fore. Varian Wrynn was overestimated because, although the effect is undeniably strong, Warrior decks aren't really suited to having such an effect, if Varian were a Paladin card it would have been every bit as strong as people feared.
C'Thun isn't going to have either problem. One, it's neutral, so any class can do its thing with it, but also the effect is just straight up damage on entering play. It's impossible to stop, and you know exactly how good that effect is. It's very hard to imagine it actually being bad, the metagame would have to be very fast and aggressive for it not to see play.
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Yeah. What Varian wants to do is restock your hand and/or dump a bunch of sticky minions on the board, and Warrior can't particularly make either work. I think it is actually overcosted at 10, though, given that the effect is so inconsistent and often detrimental to the control mirror. I think it would have been as strong as people thought even in Warrior as an 8-mana 6/6, or else if it summoned random class minions (without milling). I would particularly like the latter, because random class X seems to be the best way to have the only barely subpar cards see play.
I really do want to make Rogue C'thun or Druid C'thun now, though. Or maybe New Age Freeze Mage, with Cultists and Alex and C'thun... well, maybe not that one. But I'll try, and it's the thought that counts.
Reminder: it only takes one Thaurissan activation and the Coin to Charge your C'thun!
Edit: I suppose I should explain my defense of C'thun a little more. I've been playing a lot of Anyfin Pally (my own odd minion-spam brew, running things like Hammer of Wrath, which I've seen some success with), and as it turns out from my play, minions that are moderately playable in Arena have a lot of success even in Constructed so long as you have a solid long-term goal. Ordinarily, I'd be getting really far behind by playing things like the Murloc core or Earthen Ring Farseer or Gnomish Inventor, but because I have a strong play I'm building up to, it's totally fine to just trade them in and keep drawing. So, when I'm thinking about the C'thun minions, this is what I have in mind. They're perfectly acceptable minions, you're going to be able to get even value out of them, and you have a goal ahead of you. I think that's a good path in Hearthstone, running parallel to the super-synergistic top-value-only plans.
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We can maybe see an use of Mana Wraith turn 9 to delay C'Thun (Nerub'ar Weblord in Wild format), or maybe using Naga Sea Witch + C'Thun or Aviana + C'Thun to have a better pressence on board.
Rogue seems really strong too with C'Thun + Prep + Gang Up on C'Thun, but you have to survive a long time to be able to use that.
I was thinking too if this can work: Turn 10 C'Thun + Shadowstep / Turn 11 C'Thun + Shadowstep / Turn 12 Bran + C'Thun. (Will C'Thun be at 6 Mana after the 2nd Shadowstep or not ?)
Edit: Checked on Hearthstone.gamepedia.com the cost of the minion you use Shadowstep don't work twice so C'Thun will be at 8 Mana.
We need to see more new cards :p
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I am sorry guys, you will be sorely disappointed about c'thun! This reminds me of the fierce defenders of the OP-ness and posibilities of Aviana, Troggzor and Kel'thuzad.
A 10 mana card needs to do one of 2 things:
-Win you the game
-Set up for a win shortly after
C'thun does neither! 10-mana makes it so that you can't combo him with ANYTHING! If he gets a friend that lowers his mana-cost, it will help.
Also, remember that your opponent is playing too! Seeing a lot of c'thun buffers? Save 1x hard removal and flood the board, preferably with things like armorsmiths and acolytes of pain, as well as dudes with high HP dudes to negate his damage from the battlecry. He will NOT be played as a finisher in tempo decks, as 10 mana is simply too much.
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On March 12 2016 06:56 kazooki117 wrote:
Well, if the newest MTG set is any indication, market research must have indicated that the Cthulu Mythos is in atm.
Blackrock Mountain - Dargons
Dragons of Tarkir - Dargons
Shadows over Innistrad - most likely Cthulu Mythos Inspired (investigation tropes)
Battle for Zendikar/Oath of the Gatewatch - Eldrazi are Cthulu Mythos inspired
Whispers of the Old Ones - Cthulu Mythos Inspired
League of Explorers - Exploration theme
Battle for Zendikar/Oath of the Gatewatch - Zendikar was originally an Exploration world
That's about it though, Naxxramas' closest equivalent in MTG would probably be Innistrad, The Grand Tournament doesn't really have a MTG analogy, and Goblins vs Gnomes (with the mech theme) is most closely approximated by Mirrodin (or Kaladesh, a plane with limited exposure so far, but with a lot of thopters and man-robots).
Though the similarities of the first two comparisons really make me wonder if there is some common thread that has influenced the flavor of some of the recent sets from MTG and Hearthstone.
Everybody played Bloodborne 
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you "only" need to hit brann or c'thun with emperor once and shadowstep the other to get the nightmare on turn 10 (11).
this needs as much setup as anyfin pala and I'm not sure roque can do it at this point, but we will see. the potential to do huge dmg and end the game is there.
@slydie, i think noone here is talking about him being a finisher in a tempo deck. they are all discussing super control decks like freezemage or anyfin pala (or otk worgen warr) and I think it could be possible to build such a deck in rogue. we will have to see more cards, but i am positive you could build a semi viable build even now with the cards that were released so far. (mill rogue as a base, or compair it to malygos? that does not seem off to far)
and even if its not a top deck, the mechanic seems fun to play around with and thats what im hoping for in a new expension!
btw, vanish + doomsayer is a perfect setup for c'thun and very strong in millrogue already.
aviana, troggzor and kel all require you to be ahead on board. c'thun does not.
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you "only" need to hit brann or c'thun with emperor once and shadowstep the other to get the nightmare on turn 10 (11).
While Malygos can do more damage more consistantly...
At this point, I think it is common knowledge that combos consisting of 2 legendary minions are far too unreliable. If they can not even be played at normal cost on the same turn, then good luck!
Speaking of combos, equality+C'thun is a very strong play. A c'thun with Charge as well, sign me up if we get that!
I just came to think of some situations for a C'thun deck:
-Aggro/tempo will aim to kill you before turn 10. Remember all the defensive cards Anyfin needs!
-Control decks will get to play Ragnaros, Ysera and Alexstrasza before C'thun...
-Combo decks will have plenty of time to set up their OTK due to the defensive nature of the C'thun decks.
-Even a 10-10 or even 12-12 C'thun is not guaranteed win, and it must be to make the deck viable. Think 20+ damage from Anyfin or 30+ 2-turn kills from freeze mage.
-You play -C'thun, opponent plays bgh+reno, gg
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Corrupter hogger from Thijs' twitter:
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Corrupter hogger from Thijs' twitter:
Decent standard replecement for dr. Boom in control decks, mainly warrior?
Will be a staple if taunt warror becomes a thing.
Fun card non the less!
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Corrupted Hogger looks ok for Warrior but not much else.
Hunter one is a buff to discover effects and Ram Wrangler.
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Corrupted Hogger looks ok for Warrior but not much else.
Hunter one is a buff to discover effects and Ram Wrangler.
Hunter one is a bonkers combo with Bestial Wrath and Stable Master, if you just keep killing minions, it can wipe the board and finish with a hit to the face. Only problem is that it needs to survive one turn. You can run 2 copies of all those epics, though, so I think it has potential.
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On March 13 2016 20:43 Slydie wrote:Decent standard replecement for dr. Boom in control decks, mainly warrior? Will be a staple if taunt warror becomes a thing. Fun card non the less!
On March 13 2016 21:24 Hellonslaught wrote:
Corrupted Hogger looks ok for Warrior but not much else.
Hmm, personally I think I'd rather run Obsidian Destroyer
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For the hunter cards:
- 8/8 for 8 is an excellent body for arena where the effect will probably matters too (sadly it is a purple card so we will not see that many of it. As a common that would have been a great boost of the hunter potential in Arena).
- In constructed and unless there is a surprise nerf of BGH in stores that will probably not be played. They are some control-ish hunter playing Ragnaros out there but even in those cases I don't think you will replace rag by this card (since it does not affect the board immediately). Now It will impact all the effect that gives random cards to the hunter: Ram wrangler is the first one that come to mind: we may to recompute its medium value in Standard and perhaps it will be high enough to warrant the variance. the other ones are Tomb spider and Lock and loaded: 2 cards that some kind of value hunter could played where a big value minion like this one may be good (at least in some match-up).
In all cases will not fit the "classic" way of building a hunter so chance of it finding a place in constructed is low. not null but low. too bad I really love the design of that card.
For mister Hogger I have an hard time wrapping my head around him. I feel like it's one of this card we have to play with to really realize the value or lack thereof.
But a few points:
- It will nearly always achieve decent value: since he will either take a single removal to the face (Hex, Entomb, Death, etc..) as is expected of a 7 drop or leave a 2/2 behind if removed by damage. So we can consider it as at minimal 8/8 worth of stat over 2 body that are not on the board on the same time. In that way it remind me of Cairn Bloodhof more than any other legendary.
- He as a certain immunity to what can usually kills a 6/6: double or triple trading of the board in him (since the 2/2 taunt will pop in between the trade) so that may him kind of immune or really awkward to kill on certain type of board: which board and how often they will come up is where I feel we need to play with him to discover)
- You don't really want to leave him on the board where he can generate some stupid value: (especially in Priest that can heal him after trading or Warrior that can trigger him). So unless you are immediately winning this turn you may want to remove him. But as point earlier removing him may be awkward and require sub optimal trade/sequencing. In that way he reminds me of Sylvanas.
Now I don't expect him to be as good as Sylvanas herself but he may be better then Cairn so if you are playing a deck that would want several of those annoying to remove/good value in the right circumstances legendary he may find it's place.(Priest control? Reno Decks?)
But on this one I really think that only times will tell us if it is a new Sylvanas or a new Troggzor.
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I'm unsure how good it is. Maybe it'll be good in wild where warriors has access to whirlwind effects. But we'll see.
Even though I will play mostly wild, I will also give standard a chance
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/giant-sandworm.png)
in english
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Hogger will be a nifty anti-C'Thun tech for warrior decks. Every time it gets hit, you instantly get a new 2/2 meat shield.
New beast for Hunter is awesome, it's the kind of threat you want if you wanna go late game. Might run 2 of them and Ragnaros in a control hunter. BGH is apparently getting nerfed, so it might have a shot.
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EPT
