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On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic.
Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?...
Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER.
Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this.
I think this is a great card. Very Interesting.
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It's going to be a very important card in Wild. Mad Scientist might be rotating out, and Secret Paladin might be losing half its cards, but they're not going anywhere in Wild. Without something like Eater of Secrets, people would carry on playing Secret Paladin unabated. Blizzard said they would keep an eye on Wild mode, and this card is proof. I love it.
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I'm still undecided how good it will be. However it is good that Blizzard is actively showing interest in supporting wild as well
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On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting.
The quantity is irrelevant. Outside of secret paladin, which is one deck in one class, this card is strictly worse than Kezan Mystic.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting.
Think of the WoG environment for a moment:
No Mad Scientist
No early game for Secret Paladin (Aka only reason the deck is even good)
Big nerfs to Freeze / Secret Paladin anyway
Kezan is still better against Freeze mage / Midrange hunter which typically only ever have 1 secret out at a time anyway.
The only deck I can actually think of where this card is better against is Tempo Mage in Wild but you're losing a lot of ground to do so. Also remember Flare sucks vs Secret paladin a 7/9 isn't that scary for a secret paladin when you spent your t6/t7 doing nothing else
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Guys you have no idea what kind of new secrets are released for WoG so why debate so soon on the viability of the eater? xD
They might give secret type cards to all classes at some point. This is exactly the type of card that will get better and better with time.
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On March 14 2016 04:59 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 04:49 Penlievskiov wrote:On March 14 2016 04:47 Drazerk wrote:
People asked for a Secret Paladin nerf Depending on the rest of the cards in this expansion ofc., Secret Pally might not be a good deck anymore anyway Its not gonna be a thing in Standard anyway since no early game for paladins
Indeed, but yet to be released cards might say otherwise
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On March 14 2016 05:10 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting. The quantity is irrelevant. Outside of secret paladin, which is one deck in one class, this card is strictly worse than Kezan Mystic.
No.
On March 14 2016 05:11 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting. Think of the WoG environment for a moment: No Mad Scientist No early game for Secret Paladin (Aka only reason the deck is even good) Big nerfs to Freeze / Secret Paladin anyway Kezan is still better against Freeze mage / Midrange hunter which typically only ever have 1 secret out at a time anyway. The only deck I can actually think of where this card is better against is Tempo Mage in Wild but you're losing a lot of ground to do so. Also remember Flare sucks vs Secret paladin a 7/9 isn't that scary for a secret paladin when you spent your t6/t7 doing nothing else
I think there are also other factors why this deck is good mainly the stats of Mysterious Challengers being a 6/6 for 6 for what he does while other cards in the 6 drop range like Emperor Thaurissan or The Mistcaller have lower Attack/Health for the effects they do. For a reason that is.
On March 14 2016 05:16 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Guys you have no idea what kind of new secrets are released for WoG so why debate so soon on the viability of the eater? xD
They might give secret type cards to all classes at some point. This is exactly the type of card that will get better and better with time.
This.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 14 2016 05:29 Tresher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:10 Hier wrote:On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting. The quantity is irrelevant. Outside of secret paladin, which is one deck in one class, this card is strictly worse than Kezan Mystic. No. Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:11 Drazerk wrote:On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting. Think of the WoG environment for a moment: No Mad Scientist No early game for Secret Paladin (Aka only reason the deck is even good) Big nerfs to Freeze / Secret Paladin anyway Kezan is still better against Freeze mage / Midrange hunter which typically only ever have 1 secret out at a time anyway. The only deck I can actually think of where this card is better against is Tempo Mage in Wild but you're losing a lot of ground to do so. Also remember Flare sucks vs Secret paladin a 7/9 isn't that scary for a secret paladin when you spent your t6/t7 doing nothing else I think there are also other factors why this deck is good mainly the stats of Mysterious Challengers being a 6/6 for 6 for what he does while other cards in the 6 drop range like Emperor Thaurissan or The Mistcaller have lower Attack/Health for the effects they do. For a reason that is. Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:16 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Guys you have no idea what kind of new secrets are released for WoG so why debate so soon on the viability of the eater? xD
They might give secret type cards to all classes at some point. This is exactly the type of card that will get better and better with time. This.
MC is a strong card but remember the current listings are only running 1 of each secret and MC is becoming less and less relevant to the win condition.
Also updated the front page with all the new cards. If you see something wrong please tell me and for anyone who missed the cards announced today:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hQun0ST.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/hogger-doom-of-elwynn.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/giant-sandworm.png)
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I think you're being a little too optimistic, here. Let's look at the card closely.
1. It's a tech card. That means that it's going to be at reduced power in some games, at medium power in others, and at full power in just a few.
2. At full power, it's a 7/8 that lets you play a 2- or 3-mana card alongside it. That's pretty solid, but it's still vulnerable to dispelling effects and isn't that much bigger than Mysterious Challenger. With support, this can win the Secret Paladin matchup pretty hard, but it won't do it on its own.
3. At medium power, it's a 3/5 or a 4/6 for 4 that kills one or two Secrets. This is a good way of playing around Mirror Entity and can push lethal through Ice Block. Whenever you play it, you will gain a moderate bit of advantage or possibly close the game.
4. At reduced power, it's a 2/4 for 4. That's outright terrible.
So, how does Kezan Mystic compare? Kezan's full power is a lot lower, but that's only one matchup. At medium power, the two are more or less equal, and at reduced power, Kezan is far better. Thus, Kezan is more generally useful, while Eater of Secrets is a much harder counter to a specific deck. This only applies to Wild, but we can still say these definite things:
1. No matter the format, Eater of Secrets will not see as much play as Kezan Mystic unless decks that play more than 2 Secrets at once become very common.
2. Unless the new cards make decks like Secret Paladin proliferate in Wild, Eater of Secrets will not see play there, since Kezan Mystic only barely sees play right now.
3. Unless the new cards replace the gap left by Naxx and GvG, aggressive Paladin decks (and thus Secret Paladin) will not see play in Standard, removing this card's primary target.
4. Unless the new cards replace the gap left by Mad Scientist, the only Secret that Eater of Secrets will be able to reliably hit in Standard will be Ice Block.
5. With all this in mind, there are extremely high barriers to entry for Eater of Secrets in both Standard and Wild, and if the cards to overcome those obstacles are released, we will have to rethink almost every card, not just Eater of Secrets.
Even if we don't know everything, we can make reasonable predictions. Here's mine: Eater of Secrets will be a tech card in Reno Warlock, and will appear nowhere else.
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On March 14 2016 05:29 Tresher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:10 Hier wrote:On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting. The quantity is irrelevant. Outside of secret paladin, which is one deck in one class, this card is strictly worse than Kezan Mystic. No. Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:11 Drazerk wrote:On March 14 2016 05:02 Tresher wrote:On March 14 2016 04:48 Hier wrote:
Looks like a worse version of Kezan Mystic. Yeah because Kezan only steals one secret and Eater of Secrets can eat all secrets and get bigger by doing it right?... Seriously, do people even think before they post or they just do it for the sake of hating on everything? Same with reynad describing this card as "meh" and "bad stats for 4 mana". He knows this minion can get bigger and at least become a 3/5 ,which is the standard for 4 drops with effects, or in the best case can devour up to 3-5 secrets? There is a reason is starting stats are not that good because IT CAN GET BIGGER. Another reason why I don´t listen to Top players anymore because they talk out of their ass like this. I think this is a great card. Very Interesting. Think of the WoG environment for a moment: No Mad Scientist No early game for Secret Paladin (Aka only reason the deck is even good) Big nerfs to Freeze / Secret Paladin anyway Kezan is still better against Freeze mage / Midrange hunter which typically only ever have 1 secret out at a time anyway. The only deck I can actually think of where this card is better against is Tempo Mage in Wild but you're losing a lot of ground to do so. Also remember Flare sucks vs Secret paladin a 7/9 isn't that scary for a secret paladin when you spent your t6/t7 doing nothing else I think there are also other factors why this deck is good mainly the stats of Mysterious Challengers being a 6/6 for 6 for what he does while other cards in the 6 drop range like Emperor Thaurissan or The Mistcaller have lower Attack/Health for the effects they do. For a reason that is. Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 05:16 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Guys you have no idea what kind of new secrets are released for WoG so why debate so soon on the viability of the eater? xD
They might give secret type cards to all classes at some point. This is exactly the type of card that will get better and better with time. This.
You are being too presumptuous; you assume the card will get buffed by the trend change after the release of the expansion. As of right now, without making such assumptions, Kezan Mystic is a superior card. Why do you feel you need to shut people up because they don't share your vision of the upcoming meta?
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Good card which will keep a cancer deck in check. Lets not forget that secret pally can get improvemets in both modes... It will not see too much play, but kezan, which is supposed to counter secrets, did not counter secret pally well enough.
It will not see too much play, but I still love that it is being released!
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I believe its safe to assume Eater of Secrets should be a direct counter to Secret Paladin while Kezan Mystic is better against other secret classes.
But its not.
Eater of Secrets has a few problems:
1- Awful stats.
Lets just assume we face nothing but secret paladins. How many copies will you include? 1? There is always the possibility you wont draw it in time. 2? If you get both copies too early, they are both dead cards till the pally plays his Challenger (which won't happen sometimes). Not to mention you might not even get 1 copy as well or get it too late.
Its very situational while playing Challenger never is.
2- When it eats all paladin secrets still won't win you the game.
6/6 Challenger vs 7/9 minion. Paladin still has lots of options here: Ironbeak Owl, Blessing of Kings, Aldor Peacekeeper, Keeper of Uldaman, another Mysterious Challenger or just simple ignore and go face.
3- Paladin deck size has been reduced which means that they are more likely to draw their big bombs.
This also means its more likely that Paladin will draw their second Mysterious Challenger before you draw your second Eater of Secrets.
Last but not least, Eater of Secrets is a huge liability vs other non secret decks.
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It's kinda annoying how Blizzard sometimes pick the worst cards to showcase. Stand Against Darkness is just...SAD.
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On March 14 2016 08:35 lestye wrote:
It's kinda annoying how Blizzard sometimes pick the worst cards to showcase. Stand Against Darkness is just...SAD.
That's clever.
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On March 14 2016 08:44 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 08:35 lestye wrote:
It's kinda annoying how Blizzard sometimes pick the worst cards to showcase. Stand Against Darkness is just...SAD. That's clever.
I made that joke back on page 9 
But it's true, there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern to how they showcase cards. So far there's been nothing absolutely ASTONISHING in my opinion revealed, C'thun is cool and all but knowing the history of the game I'm not betting on it being incredibly powerful just yet. Frankly I'm just glad there's an acknowledgement by Blizzard, as underwhelming as it might be, that more tech/hate cards like Eater of Secrets are necessary and that they're still perhaps paying a bit of attention to Wild.
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I don't think its about wild. Kazan Mystic is getting rotated out too after all. So it's just a new secret hate option. Probably not better but it's different and that's probably all they care about anyways (plus more punishing against non-secret decks which I think they've stated is what they want for tech cards).
Also it's worth noting that Corrupted Hogger will be a nice twist for Patron decks (no recursion, better body). I wonder how it'll play out without Death's Bite though.
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I've been thinking about Corrupted Hogger, and it kinda seems like the best comparison to it is Imp Gang Boss. The problem is, Imp Gang Boss is very close to being the optimal stats for its cost, while Hogger is missing 3 points. In addition, Imp Gang Boss is too small to draw serious removal, while Hogger is big enough to justify things like Polymorph. So I'm not sure, overall. It doesn't combo well with Warrior Whirlwind effects, because those kill the mini-hogs, and you only get 6 health total to work with. Also, if you go after little dudes with it, you're going to be wasting most of your 6 damage every time. Maybe it would be good with Priest for the healing?
I think it might just be an excellent Arena card.
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The Corrupted Hogger is giving me MAJOR Troggzor vibes. 6/6 for 7 that spawns things each time something happens, and we all know how useless Troggzor ended up being. Yes this effect is easier to trigger, and can be activated by the controlling player, but the spawned minions are worse. Plus it suffers the age old problem that I envision cards like that Giant Sandworm having: You just can't spend 7+ mana in constructed for a card that does nothing the turn you play it unless it's the crazy board advantage of Dr. Boom. I think maybe we'll see it tried out in control warrior as a new 7-drop because if it fits any archtype it fits that one, plus warrior has the most common self-damaging effects. Maybe if control/Reno mage becomes a big thing it could go there too to take advantage of the hero power. Otherwise, I'm not optimistic about its chances.
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Really wish the eater of secrets would be a 3/4 for 3 mana that just reads "Battlecry: destroy all secrets."
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EPT
