New Naxx Card - Anub'ar Ambusher

On May 15 2014 02:12 Eggi wrote:
There pretty much is no downside to this card.

5/5 minion for 4? move over yeti. Combo it with Argus defender, its disgustingly good.

On May 15 2014 02:19 Hryul wrote:

all I see is zoo :D

On May 15 2014 02:52 Zaros wrote:
Seems decent, but do not combo with Baron Rivendare!

On May 15 2014 02:37 NovaTheFeared wrote:
That's a very strong card. It's over budget on stats and the death rattle can either be negated or turned into an advantage.



It's a Rogue card so it would be a very different zoo deck

On May 15 2014 03:30 Hryul wrote:

...there was no mention about a class in the op, so i was confused.

On May 15 2014 03:06 rd wrote:
Seems like it'd be most ideal in a tempo rogue deck, but it doesn't sound as great as it looks. Removing this minion against a tempo rogue removes two minions from their board. At turn 5 or later, most of the cards rogue might replay aren't going to be as impactful by that point in specific match-ups. By turn 5 if it's removed vs a zoo lock, you're probably already dead; by turn 5 vs a number of control decks the impact of the battlecries a rogue might play diminishes greatly, especially if two turns worth of board presence in mana is removed all at once, those battlecries (SI, scrubs, etc) are MUCH weaker. As a miracle rogue, the card has a condition which you don't completely control. It can't be expected to be used in conjunction with a leeroy combo outside of very special circumstances.

Strong card on stats, but the effect is overrated, imo. It'd be way better if they just ditched the deathrattle and made it a combo. Without drastic shifts in the meta following naxx, ambusher is counter intuitive to both win conditions of current rogue decks.

On May 15 2014 03:51 Doc Daneeka wrote:


probably all correct, but rogue has a lot of extremely useful battlecry effects, and a lot of new cards are coming into play so it's not unlikely that the meta is going to become a lot less certain. for awhile there'll be elbow room for people to try to build a deck that takes advantage of this effect. i mean if a "control" deck can make use of a card that discards half your hand in exchange for criminally cheap stats, i'm pretty sure the possible hit to tempo here can be compensated for.

On May 15 2014 04:04 serum321 wrote:
For a card to have higher stats than it should for its mana cost there needs to be a downside, I see no downside to this card in many situations. This card in miracle rogue? Replace loot hoarders with novice engineers and now the "downside" is returning an engineer or si agent to your hand, essentially giving you a free card. 5 toughness is hard enough to remove on its own at that stage of the game and now suddenly you also need to deal with that 1/1 before you can even remove the 5/5. So now miracle has this serious threat you have to deal with and it also means you have less removal for auctioneer later.

Succinctly put, it is a better yeti, already one of the most valuable cards, and its "downside" will more often than not be beneficial.

On May 15 2014 03:30 Hryul wrote:

damn it. that was mean! there was no mention about a class in the op, so i was confused.

On May 15 2014 04:39 figq wrote:
Best card in Hearthstone?
It's better than rag and cairne, imo.

On May 15 2014 04:16 rd wrote:


In such a case, it's not a free card. When counting card advantage you include both cards on board and hand. All it has done is weakened your board state with the upside of replaying the battle cry (and thus a detriment to tempo by "removing" your next play). The upside is completely in the card's stats and its ability to draw that removal in the first place. Replacing ambusher with yeti and simply playing a different card the turn after ambusher would have died is strictly better in the event that the ambusher is removed and gets to proc its deathrattle, even if it bounces the best card conceiveable (minus leeroy, which is sooo situational).

On May 15 2014 05:03 serum321 wrote:

I love it when you say something is essentially something and someone says its not that thing. I didn't say it was a free card, I said it was essentially a free card in that the 1/1 or 3/3 body they leave behind isn't as important as the battlecry itself. The battlecry effect is the free card, a free 0 mana draw a card or a free backstab. In cases such as sending back a damaged golem or bandit it absolutely gives you a free card because it just added a 31st card to your deck and now you have a new 1 mana spell to combo with.

On May 15 2014 05:13 rd wrote:


If I said essentially (which I didn't) then it was in error, it's not essentially anything. It's strictly neutral in card gain. Its transferring a card from your board to your hand, which is a net gain of 0 cards to your deck. And it is NOT a free backstab, it is a backstab and a 3/3 body at the EXPENSE of a 3/3 body, a card draw, and a 4/4 body -- aka, the azure drake (or really any additional card) you COULD have played but are now replaying the SI agent instead.

tl/dr keeping the SI agent on the board and playing another minion is more valuable than losing that additional minion to replay the SI agent (or any battle cry effect card) for another 2 damage.

On May 15 2014 05:40 serum321 wrote:

I don't know if this is a language barrier problem or what because this isn't the first time I've had this problem. No you never said essentially I don't know where that is coming from. From my part of the world when someone says something is essentially something they are not saying it is literally something. I said it was essentially giving you a card in that the only reason why people play those cards are their battlecry effect so you ESSENTIALLY get a 3rd engineer or si agent in your deck. No you do not LITERALLY get a 3rd engineer or si agent, I didn't know anyone could possibly take my post that way, it should be pretty clear, unless as I said there is a language barrier.

On May 15 2014 04:21 NovaTheFeared wrote:


You can tell what class the card is from the border: neutrals are grey, black is rogue, green hunter, brown druid etc :D

On May 15 2014 05:51 Hryul wrote:

c.o.n.f.u.s.e.d.

On May 15 2014 06:32 Sufinsil wrote:
Wonder if the friendly minion will be random.

On May 15 2014 06:21 semantics wrote:

? Class cards the borders of the card, non picture, text, mana etc are color coordinated.
+ Show Spoiler +
The card is def rouge bordered. Another thing to notice is that creature card have a S styled nameplate and spells have a arch styled name plate. Deliberate visual consistency.

On May 15 2014 05:49 rd wrote:


Ok, lets just ignore the essentially part. If backstab was deal 2 damage for 3 mana no one would play it. People play SI agent because it's a backstab ontop of a 3/3 body, which is both card and mana efficient. By bouncing it back to your hand you're negating the first 3/3 body, in effect turning your "original" SI agent play into a 3 mana for 2 damage spell. When you replay it, that lone SI agent is not a 6/6 for 4 damage, it is 3/3 for 4 damage, for a total of 6 mana.

So again, tl;dr, you might have dealt 3-6 damage directly if that SI was allowed to live that long before it was bounced back, maybe even killed a minion for free with it, but the moment it is bounced back you've "lost" the opportunity to play an additional minion ontop of the 3/3 body, and the 3/3 body is more valuable than another 2 direct damage outside of very rare circumstances. The ambusher deathrattle, even in the best case scenario (minus leeroy), is both tempo and board loss.

On May 15 2014 06:58 serum321 wrote:


I agree lets drop the essentially part. I never said it was another card, we agree it isn't another card.

I don't know that it is a "very rare circumstance" for a free 2 direct damage to be more valuable than a 3/3 body, particularly in the miracle rogue deck. Playing against zoo? well that 2 damage can kill almost any of their minions, especially ones behind void walkers and shield bearers and you just saved your 3/3 body. Do you have a deadly poisoned dagger and blade furry in your hand while your opponent has any number of the 5 toughness minions on the board? again you just saved the life of a 3/3 minion. Your opponent have a 4/1 yeti left behind a 4/6 taunt?, is it more valuable to have a 3/3 body on the board or a si:agent in your hand? These are circumstances that happen nearly every game, hardly "very rare circumstances".

On May 15 2014 06:58 serum321 wrote:


I agree lets drop the essentially part. I never said it was another card, we agree it isn't another card.

I don't know that it is a "very rare circumstance" for a free 2 direct damage to be more valuable than a 3/3 body, particularly in the miracle rogue deck. Playing against zoo? well that 2 damage can kill almost any of their minions, especially ones behind void walkers and shield bearers and you just saved your 3/3 body. Do you have a deadly poisoned dagger and blade furry in your hand while your opponent has any number of the 5 toughness minions on the board? again you just saved the life of a 3/3 minion. Your opponent have a 4/1 yeti left behind a 4/6 taunt?, is it more valuable to have a 3/3 body on the board or a si:agent in your hand? These are circumstances that happen nearly every game, hardly "very rare circumstances".

And as far as the card is concerned you have that double threat with this card. Its a fucking bigger yeti for the same cost AND if you have something like a engineer or si agent on the board well not only does your opponent have to consider well how do I deal with this big threat at this stage of the game? Now they must also consider, do I really want to kill this big threat AND give him another card draw or free arcane shot?

On May 15 2014 07:45 the`postman wrote:
I feel like the people commenting on this have never actually played a tuned tempo rogue. This deathrattle absolutely kills your tempo, people are talking about it bouncing back SI:7 like that's a good thing, spending 3 mana for 2 directed damage is not a benefit, especially since it kills the curve you had prepared, and your tempo. Maybe if it was a 4/6 I could see that stat point being worth it but trading the consistency of a yeti for one more attack power, and a random tempo killing downside does not seem worth the risk. For every time you might get value (while losing tempo) from an si:7 getting bounced, you're just straight losing tempo by having a harvest golem returned.

What if you have this+another minion on the board and you want to play a defender, there's a 50/50 chance that it trades and you lose not only the tempo but also the defender buff on your other minion. While there might be a spot for this card in the future tempo rogue is already not seeing play, and this card certainly wouldn't change that.

It's got interesting potential, and could lead to some fun plays, but there's no way its an instant add to any decks we've already seen.

On May 15 2014 07:45 the`postman wrote:
I feel like the people commenting on this have never actually played a tuned tempo rogue. This deathrattle absolutely kills your tempo, people are talking about it bouncing back SI:7 like that's a good thing, spending 3 mana for 2 directed damage is not a benefit, especially since it kills the curve you had prepared, and your tempo. Maybe if it was a 4/6 I could see that stat point being worth it but trading the consistency of a yeti for one more attack power, and a random tempo killing downside does not seem worth the risk. For every time you might get value (while losing tempo) from an si:7 getting bounced, you're just straight losing tempo by having a harvest golem returned.

What if you have this+another minion on the board and you want to play a defender, there's a 50/50 chance that it trades and you lose not only the tempo but also the defender buff on your other minion. While there might be a spot for this card in the future tempo rogue is already not seeing play, and this card certainly wouldn't change that.

It's got interesting potential, and could lead to some fun plays, but there's no way its an instant add to any decks we've already seen.

On May 15 2014 08:02 serum321 wrote:

I feel like the people commenting on this have never actually played miracle rogue. I've never talked about tempo rogue, I said in my very first post miracle rogue. What would miracle rogue possibly have on their board turn 4? Either a loot hoarder or si agent. I suggested replacing the loot hoarders with novice engineers so that in this deck there is no downside to playing this turn 4.

On May 15 2014 07:55 rd wrote:


As opposed to dealing 2 extra direct damage you could have simply attacked for 3. The body of an SI agent is not as important if it's going to cost 1 extra turn playing other cards which probably could have more impact on the game than just an SI agent. The situations you quote with the SI having to get around a taunt are ideal to abuse a replaying the SI agent for, but given the 4/6 taunt, how do you plan to kill your own ambusher?

Also, it's a yeti with 1 more attack. It's a great body but it's not double the threat. Your opponent should be very happy if hes considering removing your ambusher with an engineer or an SI agent. He's effectively gotten a 2 for 1 value on removing minions from the board, and now knows that he has (possibly) subtracted 3 attack damage from his opponents' next play. His alternative would be to leave the SI agent on board and take 3 damage THAT turn rather than 2 damage the following turn with the opportunity to play another creature that the SI can't reactively attack because it has summoning sickness -- ontop of the lost opportunity to play something more threatening than an SI.

On May 15 2014 08:02 serum321 wrote:

I feel like the people commenting on this have never actually played miracle rogue. I've never talked about tempo rogue, I said in my very first post miracle rogue. What would miracle rogue possibly have on their board turn 4? Either a loot hoarder or si agent. I suggested replacing the loot hoarders with novice engineers so that in this deck there is no downside to playing this turn 4.

On May 15 2014 08:09 serum321 wrote:


Yes he could have attacked for 3 and possibly sacrifice his life, undoubtedly there are many cases where a 3/3 > arcane shot, but there are also many cases where arcane shot would give you a lot more benefit than if you had a 3/3 on the board, like I said basically any time you've said to yourself, "if I only had 1 more damage I could save this card/minion." I would never feel good about giving my opponent a free card draw rather than him having a 1/1 on the board.

On May 15 2014 08:26 Came Norrection wrote:
Why do people say this combos with leeroy? It does 1 more damage for 4 more mana if you manage to double leeroy and kill this off in the same turn...

I mean, daggering up is 1 damage for 2 mana so the chances of this working well isn't very high. In situations of if your oppenent has a taunt, leeroy doesn't get to actually attack when its played first anyways.

On May 15 2014 09:39 Advantageous wrote:
This card could easily be used late game when combo'd with something like Leeroy. It basically gives rogues 3 shadow steps with 1 of them returning the monster at a full cost of mana rather than -2 mana. or 4 if 2 of them are ran int he deck.

On May 15 2014 09:39 Advantageous wrote:
This card could easily be used late game when combo'd with something like Leeroy. It basically gives rogues 3 shadow steps with 1 of them returning the monster at a full cost of mana rather than -2 mana. or 4 if 2 of them are ran int he deck.

On May 15 2014 03:08 Maand wrote:
Yeti in tempo rogue just got replaced?

On May 15 2014 09:59 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think blizzard can't add another low cost spell to support miracle rogue, so this is the alternative.

On May 15 2014 10:25 S1eth wrote:

If Blizzard really thinks "we cannot add more low cost spells", then that sounds like a good reason to change Gagdetzan Auctioneer.

On May 15 2014 10:58 jrkirby wrote:


I doubt Gadgetzan will go unchanged for a year. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's OP, but I wouldn't recommend disenchanting extras.

On May 15 2014 11:24 djtiii wrote:
tl;dr - Does not synergize with rogue... not great for miracle, even worse for tempo and is in no way a Shadowstep for Leeroy

On May 15 2014 14:02 Green_25 wrote:
People are seriously underestimating just how good 55/4 actually is. Even if the deathrattle isn't great those stats force you to play it. Will probably 2/1 75% of the time.

On May 15 2014 14:05 S1eth wrote:

I don't see people play Pit Lord. Do you?

On May 15 2014 14:48 Green_25 wrote:

Different scenario. That battlecry is potentially really bad in constructed since most games turn into a race at some stage. This one is at worst mildly bad, usually it doesn't matter, occasionally its good. At least thats how I see it

On May 15 2014 14:57 Green_25 wrote:
What card are you so scared of losing in rogue? The only thing I can think in my tempo would be another yeti, which are probably getting replaced by this guy now anyway.

On May 15 2014 14:02 Green_25 wrote:
People are seriously underestimating just how good 55/4 actually is. Even if the deathrattle isn't great those stats force you to play it. Will probably 2/1 75% of the time.

On May 15 2014 16:11 the`postman wrote:

I cant really think of any situations when my yeti having 5 attack instead of 4 would lead to it trading for a whole additional card, this thing dies to the same things yeti dies to, and it has the tempo butchering deathrattle.

On May 15 2014 02:41 Fi0na wrote:
combo with SI:7 Agent for maximum pain

On May 15 2014 13:29 ColossalTitan wrote:
Wow another MILL DECK CARD woot! Meta Watch Out!

On May 15 2014 18:37 JBright wrote:
I wonder how it will interact with Sylvanas and the order of the two deathrattles.

On May 15 2014 19:32 S1eth wrote:

The same way it does with 2 Sylvanas: completely bugged and random

On May 15 2014 19:44 Kleinmuuhg wrote:

Isnt it the order of the cards being played ?

You have Anub and 1 minion, he has sylvanas, sylvanas attacks into anub
1) Sylvanas was played before anub
this means he takes your minion and you get nothing returned to your hand
2) aub was played before sylvanas
your minion gets returned to your hand and sylvanas gets nothing

On May 15 2014 19:52 S1eth wrote:

There was a post on reddit about 2 people who made hundreds of tests with sylvanas vs sylvanas (with playing order: A before B, B before A, attacking or being attacked: A attacks B, B attacks A), sylvanas vs harvest golem and so on.
And the results were not consistent at all. (except that Sylvanas can never take the Damaged Golem / Baine Bloodhoof )

On May 15 2014 18:06 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i'm thinking of it being sort of like Mad Bomber - good stats for the mana, with an uncontrollable battlecry that could gain you more of an advantage or alternatively set you behind.

in arena, saying "i'd rather just have a Yeti" is kind of meaningless because it only applies if two of the three cards you're choosing from are this and Yeti. more likely you're choosing between this and some other card, and there may or may not already be a Yeti in your deck. in a way this doubles the number of Yetis you have the opportunity to pick if you're running arena as rogue.

i also think it's kind of presumptuous to assume that the optimized decks will stay the same after 30 brand new cards are introduced, considering meta changes not insignificantly on a weekly basis using the same cards we've had for nine months.

On May 15 2014 20:02 Kleinmuuhg wrote:

does this also count for sylvanas vs other deathrattle or is it only random in the sylvanas mirror

On May 15 2014 20:08 rd wrote:
It's only going to be 30 cards. How many of them are going to be class cards?

On May 15 2014 20:10 S1eth wrote:


Read here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/4637-how-deathrattle-activation-order-works

On May 15 2014 21:43 LastAergerer wrote:
I find it interesting that it's called an ambusher. Do you think it's called that because it allows you to replay the card that got returned to finish the opponent? I'm thinking Leeroy or SI7 Agent.

On May 15 2014 08:10 the`postman wrote:

Why would you want to play this in miracle? What are you replacing? Seems that if miracle rogue wanted something like this you'd run yeti already, which you don't.

On May 15 2014 22:24 DifuntO wrote:
I think this card is gonna be great in a miracle deck.It comes one turn earlier than Azure Drake / Gadgetzan Auctioneer and it will bait removal.5 attack is a lot and with 5 health there are very few minions that can kill it that turn.

If you played SI:7 Agent the previous turn and the opponent for whatever reason did not kill it you will be in a very good spot.You won't lose tempo.I mean what could you possibly play on turns 1-3 that won't die and will be bad if it goes back in your hand?

Since this card only costs 4 mana you can do some pretty cool stuff later in the game and of course we haven't seen all the Naxraamas cards yet,i'm sure there will be cards that will have some synergy with this spider.

On May 16 2014 02:10 DifuntO wrote:


I played the SI:7 Agent and probably did 2 dmg.He stays alive.I can attack something the opponent played or do 3dmg to him and play the spider.

The opponent probably spends a lot or resources/mana to kill the spider so i get the SI:7 Agent back,i am the one who puts stuff on the board and i can use SI:7 Agent's battlecry again whenever i want.

Yeah,i could have a 3/3 on the board instead but it's not really a big difference in this case.Of course there will be some situations where you would prefer to have a yeti but the spider is a 5/5 which makes it amazing with so many popular 4/4 and 4/5 minions.

We'll have to wait and see it in action.To me it looks like a very good card.

On May 15 2014 22:24 DifuntO wrote:
I think this card is gonna be great in a miracle deck.It comes one turn earlier than Azure Drake / Gadgetzan Auctioneer and it will bait removal.5 attack is a lot and with 5 health there are very few minions that can kill it that turn.

If you played SI:7 Agent the previous turn and the opponent for whatever reason did not kill it you will be in a very good spot.You won't lose tempo.I mean what could you possibly play on turns 1-3 that won't die and will be bad if it goes back in your hand?

Since this card only costs 4 mana you can do some pretty cool stuff later in the game and of course we haven't seen all the Naxraamas cards yet,i'm sure there will be cards that will have some synergy with this spider.

On May 16 2014 06:05 gostunv wrote:
Id just like to remind everybody this is a single card out of the new rogue cards.

On May 16 2014 06:05 gostunv wrote:
Id just like to remind everybody this is a single card out of the new rogue cards.

we might not even have miracle rogue anymore in the meta after the new pack.

trying to shoe-horn this card into the current meta isnt going to be particularly effective imo.

i rather speculate on what kind of cards might be coming into synnergize with this.

although the new cards seem to have an emphasis on deathrattle.

On May 16 2014 06:48 rd wrote:


Ironically, if there were multiple class cards in naxx, there'd be almost half as many new cards for rogue to work with compared to the current reality where theres only 1 class card and 21 other neutrals for rogue to play with. Nonetheless, it's only 30 cards. The metagame is going to be heavily influenced most by the current 300+ cards that exist now.

On May 16 2014 06:48 rd wrote:
Ironically, if there were multiple class cards in naxx, there'd be almost half as many new cards for rogue to work with compared to the current reality where theres only 1 class card and 21 other neutrals for rogue to play with. Nonetheless, it's only 30 cards. The metagame is going to be heavily influenced most by the current 300+ cards that exist now.

On May 16 2014 22:52 Doc Daneeka wrote:
meh, seems reasonable for a small set of cards. they probably don't want to completely reconfigure the game so early in its life. i'm sure there'll be more per class when the first proper expansion comes around.



yeah, those are the base the meta has been building off of since the start. but at the same time, any one of those 30 cards could completely change the game. imagine the game just didn't have defender of argus in it, or leeroy, or i dunno, pick any widely used neutral.

On May 16 2014 08:22 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So it's an imba yeti with free brewmaster effect? Sick

On May 16 2014 22:52 Doc Daneeka wrote:
meh, seems reasonable for a small set of cards. they probably don't want to completely reconfigure the game so early in its life. i'm sure there'll be more per class when the first proper expansion comes around.



yeah, those are the base the meta has been building off of since the start. but at the same time, any one of those 30 cards could completely change the game. imagine the game just didn't have defender of argus in it, or leeroy, or i dunno, pick any widely used neutral.

On May 18 2014 09:20 Kabras wrote:
is ridiculously op shit not apparent to blizzard by now? why must everyone go through a couple of unnecessary months of one trick insta win crap before they fix the obvious? wasn't uth enough? a 5/5 for 4 mana is stupid as it is... and don't tell me the deathrattle can backfire, it could with most other classes but it actually helps the rogue. more free damage, more wombo combo, fatter edwin, etc.

On May 18 2014 09:20 Kabras wrote:
is ridiculously op shit not apparent to blizzard by now? why must everyone go through a couple of unnecessary months of one trick insta win crap before they fix the obvious? wasn't uth enough? a 5/5 for 4 mana is stupid as it is... and don't tell me the deathrattle can backfire, it could with most other classes but it actually helps the rogue. more free damage, more wombo combo, fatter edwin, etc.

On May 18 2014 09:20 Kabras wrote:
is ridiculously op shit not apparent to blizzard by now? why must everyone go through a couple of unnecessary months of one trick insta win crap before they fix the obvious? wasn't uth enough? a 5/5 for 4 mana is stupid as it is... and don't tell me the deathrattle can backfire, it could with most other classes but it actually helps the rogue. more free damage, more wombo combo, fatter edwin, etc.

On May 18 2014 12:28 Hryul wrote:

That Lightspawn sure is imba as hell!

On May 18 2014 13:58 Mortal wrote:

While saying the 5/5 for 4 is imba is in fact dumb, I could entertain the argument that this card is far less situation and dependent on proper circumstances than Lightspawn. Lightspawn gets silenced and it's literally worthless. This thing gets silenced, and it's marginally worse.

On May 18 2014 13:58 Mortal wrote:

While saying the 5/5 for 4 is imba is in fact dumb, I could entertain the argument that this card is far less situation and dependent on proper circumstances than Lightspawn. Lightspawn gets silenced and it's literally worthless. This thing gets silenced, and it's marginally worse.

On May 18 2014 20:15 bananaboy wrote:
Wait, the bounce is not random though, right?

On May 18 2014 13:58 Mortal wrote:

While saying the 5/5 for 4 is imba is in fact dumb, I could entertain the argument that this card is far less situation and dependent on proper circumstances than Lightspawn. Lightspawn gets silenced and it's literally worthless. This thing gets silenced, and it's marginally worse.