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8748 Posts
On July 14 2009 11:03 aRod wrote:
Before people utter anymore weight nonse understand that weight is LARGELY genetic. Adoptions studies have been done putting children from fat parents in the hands of skinny parents and children from skinny parents in the hands of fat parents. The environmental upbringing had almost no influence on the childrens resulting adult weight. The children born from fat parents became fat and the children born of skinny parents became skinny. Genetics largely wins. There are a whole host of physiologic and metabolic factors that contribute to weight that cannot be controlled. Appetite for instance. Have you ever found yourself wandering around the kitchen just looking at food even though you KNOW everything that is in the fridge. You may have just ate, but yet there you are staring at your food. I find myself doing this all the time. The drive to eat isn't entirely in the realm of conscious throught. I say people litterally can't control their hunger or their resulting eating much less the behavior leading to the process.
Ahh, you seem to only be considering that people are fat based on genetic influence or environmental influence. But it's obvious that most people control their weight by personal behavior.
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On July 14 2009 07:27 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2009 07:24 Caller wrote:
i think the idea of a surgeon general is stupid.
politics is like mercury. It's lethal by itself, and mixing it with other things doesn't make it more palatable. Ha! Funny and so true, and yet people are so gullible time after time they seem to think Government is this omniscient force that cures all ills, when in fact its the direct cause of those ills. How people expect the Government to provide satisfactory healthcare, but yet they can't even manage one financial institution, mail service, or their own budget. Silly times we are living in.
The obama administration is not a government its a religion!
Deep down all they want is to impose their mediocre world view on every american and it will ultimately destroy us all!
+ Show Spoiler +
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For some, losing weight isn't easy. It doesn't always require a little bit of work, but often drastic modifications of lifestyle, eating habits, and social behavior. Granted this isn't everybody, but for some losing weight is a great challenge that brings them to tears and often doesn't work. Some patients who undergo gastric bypass can't get under 240 lbs. I know, I see a patient that had this procedure, claims to eat a 1500 cal/day diet and exercise 30 minutes a day. Sometimes losing weight is almost impossible.
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I'm actually going to disagree with the OP about the SG being a role model. Nowadays, most patients don't have any respect for their physicians--at least compared to earlier 20th century. And because of that, they aren't seen as "role models" so much as the guy who diagnosis them and writes prescriptions.
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On July 14 2009 11:55 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2009 11:03 aRod wrote:
Before people utter anymore weight nonse understand that weight is LARGELY genetic. Adoptions studies have been done putting children from fat parents in the hands of skinny parents and children from skinny parents in the hands of fat parents. The environmental upbringing had almost no influence on the childrens resulting adult weight. The children born from fat parents became fat and the children born of skinny parents became skinny. Genetics largely wins. There are a whole host of physiologic and metabolic factors that contribute to weight that cannot be controlled. Appetite for instance. Have you ever found yourself wandering around the kitchen just looking at food even though you KNOW everything that is in the fridge. You may have just ate, but yet there you are staring at your food. I find myself doing this all the time. The drive to eat isn't entirely in the realm of conscious throught. I say people litterally can't control their hunger or their resulting eating much less the behavior leading to the process. Ahh, you seem to only be considering that people are fat based on genetic influence or environmental influence. But it's obvious that most people control their weight by personal behavior.
I completely agree behavior has a large effect on weight. I don't doubt people can modify their behavior. I retract the claim regarding control of eating. Forgive me, occassionially my tendency to overstate things gets the best of me. I contest feeding behavior is also genetically linked. Granted this also can be controlled, but not nearly as easily as some people assume.
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On July 14 2009 12:02 aRod wrote:
For some, losing weight isn't easy. It doesn't always require a little bit of work, but often drastic modifications of lifestyle, eating habits, and social behavior. Granted this isn't everybody, but for some losing weight is a great challenge that brings them to tears and often doesn't work. Some patients who undergo gastric bypass can't get under 240 lbs. I know, I see a patient that had this procedure, claims to eat a 1500 cal/day diet and exercise 30 minutes a day. Sometimes losing weight is almost impossible.
The patient was lying. Search up on studies of women mis-reporting their food consumption, the results are always pretty entertaining. Something like normal women under-reporting by 30%-50%, and fat women leaving out like 70% of their diet when counting their calories. And 30 minutes of slowly rotating on an elliptical is not exercise.
Losing weight doesn't often not work, they just often give up because, and I admit, it is hard.
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The Obama administration's idea is that "Hope and Change" means a government that wants to help you, which really isn't a new idea but whatever. When you work through and realize you elect the government and pay for it, you start wondering how they can help you better than you can help yourself. The answer's pretty simple, really: the government is bigger than you, and it can borrow/print way more money than any private person.
In the "bigger" category, we have the following things it can do better (stop wherever you draw the line): defense, education, healthcare, transportation, ... You can talk capitalism vs socialism all you want, but for this type of project (anything that can plausibly have the adjective "universal" attached) it's a question of whether or not the government's actually going to do a better job - the underlying principle is the same for a national defense project (aka the armed forces) or a universal (meaning national) healthcare project. Note that you do find some people insisting that private defense companies can do a better job than the government.
Under the heading of more money, we have local or non-universal government projects. Now, because the Fed can have the money which private industry simply can't, effective government aid = better short term life for a lot of people, but long-term instability due to (sometimes massive) debt. The ideal, then, should be (very) short-lived government intervention to stablilize insecurities, followed by long-term fiscal responsibility to recoup the debt and avoid runaway inflation. Of course, the problem with this (and the reason a lot of people are against government intervention) is that once a government steps in to help somebody, there always seems to be somebody else who wants or needs help, and you never return to that financial responsibility stage that's crucial.
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On July 14 2009 12:11 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2009 12:02 aRod wrote:
For some, losing weight isn't easy. It doesn't always require a little bit of work, but often drastic modifications of lifestyle, eating habits, and social behavior. Granted this isn't everybody, but for some losing weight is a great challenge that brings them to tears and often doesn't work. Some patients who undergo gastric bypass can't get under 240 lbs. I know, I see a patient that had this procedure, claims to eat a 1500 cal/day diet and exercise 30 minutes a day. Sometimes losing weight is almost impossible. The patient was lying. Search up on studies of women mis-reporting their food consumption, the results are always pretty entertaining. Something like normal women under-reporting by 30%-50%, and fat women leaving out like 70% of their diet when counting their calories. And 30 minutes of slowly rotating on an elliptical is not exercise. Losing weight doesn't often not work, they just often give up because, and I admit, it is hard.
I'm aware of those figures. She underwent gastric bypass andI I've seen her food log. You figures don't apply to patients who went through these procedures, nor patients who keep a monthly food log. But you're right it's possible she lied in her food log, and is continually eating all day, and slowly rotating.
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United States20661 Posts
lol slowly rotating on an elliptical
I will have to adopt that.
edit: again, not expecting everyone to log 50-70 mile weeks of running or anything. But I refuse to believe that someone who eats 1500 cals/day and exercises [actually sweats; walking does not count] 30 mins/day will still be ridiculously obese.
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So does this surgeon general have any public stance on MSG and the food additives issue we have going on in America right now? What about the almost outright lying when it comes to food labels? There's a lot of good reasons for why America's population is obese. It's not just the citizen's fault. The food industry has a lot to do with it too. There's a lot of homework involved just trying to avoid artificial substances in your diet.
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On July 14 2009 12:47 BisuBoi wrote:
So does this surgeon general have any public stance on MSG and the food additives issue we have going on in America right now? What about the almost outright lying when it comes to food labels? There's a lot of good reasons for why America's population is obese. It's not just the citizen's fault. The food industry has a lot to do with it too. There's a lot of homework involved just trying to avoid artificial substances in your diet.
If by homework, you mean "google." With easy access to internet nowadays, ignorance is no excuse for obesity. Sure, food industry may or may not share some of the blame, but really, consumers have all the information they need at the tip of their fingers. Finger pointing at corporations is just being lazy and irresponsible.
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Yeah, I bring a laptop to the grocery store so I can google up the hidden additives on that new brand of whatever.
Totally legit.
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Iphone? Blackberry? Even then, how often do shoppers actually buy new products when they're at the grocery store. Almost all the groceries an individual or a family buys are exactly the same ones they buy time after time. Just take it home one time, and look at the ingredients? It's not that hard, really. Give it a try.
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On July 14 2009 12:51 gchan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2009 12:47 BisuBoi wrote:
So does this surgeon general have any public stance on MSG and the food additives issue we have going on in America right now? What about the almost outright lying when it comes to food labels? There's a lot of good reasons for why America's population is obese. It's not just the citizen's fault. The food industry has a lot to do with it too. There's a lot of homework involved just trying to avoid artificial substances in your diet. If by homework, you mean "google." With easy access to internet nowadays, ignorance is no excuse for obesity. Sure, food industry may or may not share some of the blame, but really, consumers have all the information they need at the tip of their fingers. Finger pointing at corporations is just being lazy and irresponsible.
Do you know all the names for MSG? Do you know all of its side effects? Are you aware of all the food additives being put in something as simple as chicken tenders and what the health effects of these compounds are?
Sorry, not trying to be aggressive towards you, but I think you might be underestimating exactly how many peculiarities are in prepared foods. I think it's kind of misleading to say "google." Google what? If people don't know to even look for something, Google's not going to do much good. Yes, consumers have all the information they need at their fingertips. Humans have everything they need to understand the laws of physics at their fingertips too. Doesn't mean it's easy.
I'm fit and in shape so I don't need the lecture about lazy and irresponsible. WHat I think is disgusting is that I need to pay a 30% premium on my groceries just to ensure they're not putting chemistry kits in my protein.
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Iphone? Blackberry? You'll find that the highest rates of obesity in the states somewhat sadly correspond to socioeconomic classes which aren't walking around with those.
I mean, you might as well have said "Personal shopper, trainer?".
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On July 14 2009 13:02 L wrote: You'll find that the highest rates of obesity in the states somewhat sadly correspond to socioeconomic classes which aren't walking around with those. I mean, you might as well have said "Personal shopper, trainer?".
Way to overlook the rest of my statement which explains the residual population.
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On July 14 2009 12:58 BisuBoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2009 12:51 gchan wrote:On July 14 2009 12:47 BisuBoi wrote:
So does this surgeon general have any public stance on MSG and the food additives issue we have going on in America right now? What about the almost outright lying when it comes to food labels? There's a lot of good reasons for why America's population is obese. It's not just the citizen's fault. The food industry has a lot to do with it too. There's a lot of homework involved just trying to avoid artificial substances in your diet. If by homework, you mean "google." With easy access to internet nowadays, ignorance is no excuse for obesity. Sure, food industry may or may not share some of the blame, but really, consumers have all the information they need at the tip of their fingers. Finger pointing at corporations is just being lazy and irresponsible. Do you know all the names for MSG? Do you know all of its side effects? Are you aware of all the food additives being put in something as simple as chicken tenders and what the health effects of these compounds are? Sorry, not trying to be aggressive towards you, but I think you might be underestimating exactly how many peculiarities are in prepared foods. I think it's kind of misleading to say "google." Google what? If people don't know to even look for something, Google's not going to do much good. Yes, consumers have all the information they need at their fingertips. Humans have everything they need to understand the laws of physics at their fingertips too. Doesn't mean it's easy. I'm fit and in shape so I don't need the lecture about lazy and irresponsible. WHat I think is disgusting is that I need to pay a 30% premium on my groceries just to ensure they're not putting chemistry kits in my protein.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Health_concerns
Not that hard? I mean you're right in that there are probably a lot of aritificial byproducts in our food that aren't easily google-able, but I think you also under estimate the ability for the body to tolerate these chemicals. The human body is pretty resilient and adaptive. I'm just saying that because people don't know how to google should not be reason that the government takes up the cost of fighting obesity across the board. Some personal responsibility has to be taken up by the consumers, as consumers and as citizens.
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See, I agree with the general thrust of your statement. I don't think obesity should be a government issue. But I do think that regulation of chemicals and unknown substances in our food IS a government issue. I mean isn't that the reason for the FDA? But the FDA has historically been very corrupt and let itself get bullied about by the powerful agricultural industry.
I'm just wondering if this surgeon general will take a firmer stance on the issue and maybe start the ball rolling in the right direction when it comes to artificial food additives, which at this point are NOT well understood by anyone outside the medical industry. From what my friends who work in chemistry research or are going to med school, they have a lot of bad things to say about food additives that are not as easy to find on wikipedia because, a lot of times, they have trouble even getting their research on the topic published.
Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but hell, they got warning labels on cigarettes and not so long ago, the tobacco lobby was so big and scary that you'd never expect that to have happened. And now, smoking's even banned in most public places! Change can happen! (lol)
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Well, I'm a firm believer that we shouldn't throw good money after bad money. Funding more of the inept FDA wouldn't really help the problem--the solution has to start at the consumer level. Interestingly enough, you point out that cigarettes changed over time, but this was because consumers themselves became more aware of the health problems of cigarettes. Change isn't really going to happen at the top level when politicians, lobbyists, bureaucrats run the system. There is definitely a conflict of interest there, especially given that FDA workers do not make much money at all. My primary point was that consumers really need to just start being more knowledgeable rather than have the government pick up their tab.
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On July 14 2009 12:58 BisuBoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2009 12:51 gchan wrote:On July 14 2009 12:47 BisuBoi wrote:
So does this surgeon general have any public stance on MSG and the food additives issue we have going on in America right now? What about the almost outright lying when it comes to food labels? There's a lot of good reasons for why America's population is obese. It's not just the citizen's fault. The food industry has a lot to do with it too. There's a lot of homework involved just trying to avoid artificial substances in your diet. If by homework, you mean "google." With easy access to internet nowadays, ignorance is no excuse for obesity. Sure, food industry may or may not share some of the blame, but really, consumers have all the information they need at the tip of their fingers. Finger pointing at corporations is just being lazy and irresponsible. Do you know all the names for MSG? Do you know all of its side effects? Are you aware of all the food additives being put in something as simple as chicken tenders and what the health effects of these compounds are? Sorry, not trying to be aggressive towards you, but I think you might be underestimating exactly how many peculiarities are in prepared foods. I think it's kind of misleading to say "google." Google what? If people don't know to even look for something, Google's not going to do much good. Yes, consumers have all the information they need at their fingertips. Humans have everything they need to understand the laws of physics at their fingertips too. Doesn't mean it's easy. I'm fit and in shape so I don't need the lecture about lazy and irresponsible. WHat I think is disgusting is that I need to pay a 30% premium on my groceries just to ensure they're not putting chemistry kits in my protein.
Stop being a lazy piece of shit and buy regular meat, and you're all set. You don't have to eat chicken tenders or microwave dinners every day, eh.
Also stop fearing everything just because it's 'artificial'. That's how diabetics die because their homeopathic 'doctor' told them to stop eating splenda. Really, 99% of those additives are completely harmless, unless you're eating 60 servings a day.
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EPT
