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Only in the 13 states where medical marijuana is allowed by state law however.
+ Show Spoiler +We don't want to over-excite anyone out there on the West Coast who may currently be engaged in wake-and-bake, but marijuana is now, for all practical purposes, legal in 13 states. Thanks to Obama!
Our new US attorney general, Eric "Loves Marijuana" Holder, said this past week that the federal government is no longer going to raid medical marijuana distributors, if medical marijuana is legal in the state. Under the Bush administration, it was nice and everything to live somewhere like, oh, California, where medical marijuana could be easily had, but it wasn't completely nice, because the US govt. officially considered marijuana illegal still, so federal types would come in and raid medical marijuana places, being all like, fuck your state laws! But Holder said the federal government is scrapping all that, and going by what Barack "Marijuana is Good" Obama said during the campaign:
"My attitude is if the science and the doctors suggest that the best palliative care and the way to relieve pain and suffering is medical marijuana, then that's something I'm open to," Obama said in November 2007 at a campaign stop in Audubon, Iowa. "There's no difference between that and morphine when it comes to just giving people relief from pain."
And since getting a medical marijuana prescription in Cali is as easy as telling some weedhead doctor "I have stress," weed is basically legal there now, as well as in many other states.
Dude http://gawker.com/5162010/obama-pretty-much-legalizes-marijuana
+ Show Spoiler + Supporters of programs to provide legal marijuana to patients with painful medical conditions are celebrating Attorney General Eric Holder’s statement this week that the Drug Enforcement Administration would end its raids on state-approved marijuana dispensaries.
Federal raids on medical marijuana distributors continued at least into the second week of Barack Obama’s presidency, when federal agents shut down at least two dispensaries in California on Feb. 3.
Holder was asked about those raids Wednesday in Santa Ana, Calif., at a news conference that was called to announce the arrests of 755 people in a nationwide crackdown on the U.S. operations of Mexican drug cartels. He said such operations would no longer be conducted.
“What the president said during the campaign ... will be consistent with what we will be doing here in law enforcement,” he said. “What (Obama) said during the campaign ... is now American policy.”
Obama indicated during the presidential campaign that he supported the controlled use of marijuana for medical purposes, saying he saw no difference between medical marijuana and other pain-control drugs.
“My attitude is if the science and the doctors suggest that the best palliative care and the way to relieve pain and suffering is medical marijuana, then that’s something I’m open to,” Obama said in November 2007 at a campaign stop in Audubon, Iowa. “There’s no difference between that and morphine when it comes to just giving people relief from pain.”
White House spokesman Nick Shapiro hinted at the policy shift shortly after the California raids, telling The Washington Times that the dispensaries were legal in California and that the Obama administration’s stance was that “federal resources should not be used to circumvent state laws.”
The new policy represents a significant turnabout for the federal government. During the Bush administration, DEA agents shut down 30 to 40 marijuana dispensaries, the agency said.
The Web site of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy had yet to catch up to the policy shift as of Friday afternoon, and was still prominently featuring a “ Medical Marijuana Reality Check” declaring that “marijuana is not considered modern medicine” and arguing that “no animal or human data support the safety or efficacy of smoked marijuana for general medical use.”
Holder’s comments received little notice Wednesday, overshadowed by the news of the drug arrests. But supporters of legalized marijuana seized on them as an important sign of progress in their campaign.
“Holder’s statement marks a dramatic shift in U.S. drug policy and is a major victory for the 72 million Americans who reside in states where the use of medical cannabis is legal,” said Paul Armentano, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said in a statement.
Thirteen states allow the cultivation, sale and use of medical marijuana.
Armentano said the shift would add momentum to campaigns in states that are considering their own medical marijuana laws. The New Jersey Senate approved such a bill Monday, and Gov. Jon Corzine said he would sign it if it cleared the state Assembly.
Charles Lynch, who operated a state-approved dispensary in Morro Bay, Calif., before it was raided in 2007, also welcomed the new policy.
“It’s a good thing for California. It’s a good thing for the other 12 states that have medical marijuana laws,” said Lynch, who was convicted in August of federal drug charges.
Lynch could face five years in prison when he is sentenced late next month, but in light of the new federal policy, he said he would appeal his conviction and seek a presidential pardon.
Lynch contended that dispensaries like his were vital for patients in the last stages of a painful illness.
“Having one in your community, wherever that may be, is a good thing because it helps these people that need relief,” he said. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29433708
Not sure about gawker, but msnbc seems pretty legit.
Anyways, for the tl;dr crowd, marijuana isn't officially legal, but Obama's administration is basically recognizing state laws that deem medical marijuana legal and are stopping raids and arrests for possession of marijuana (which were happening in spite of what the state laws said). Also since getting a prescription for medical marijuana is simply a matter of finding a doctor willing to give it to you (in most cases anyways), it seems safe to say that it's legal for all intents and purposes...in those 13 states anyways.
I don't really care much for weed, but I'm actually kind of glad this law passed since I've never seen any problem with it when compared to say alcohol, tobacco, or other common over the counter medications. Hopefully I didn't read these articles inaccurately, but if I made some major error with this then I apologize for getting your hopes up.
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it should be legalized, there is no real reason not to.
Actually almost all the problems caused by cannabis is caused by the fact that it is illegal. Even the mental problems, since sometimes people start getting scary of getting caught and stuff.
This is progress at least
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This is really great, people need to see that weed IS NOT a problem drug, especially if its used for medical reasons. Obama +2
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Isn't California talking about legalizing pot in order to tax it?
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United States22883 Posts
I suppose this is an indirect way to decriminalize weed without taking it to Congress, but the idea of the federal government giving sway to state governments seems unbelievable.
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pretty sweet news, now New York needs to enact some medical marijuana policy. I hear Connecticut will have medicinal marijuana available in October of this year.
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So, this might help the med marij provider / user guys, but does it help a normal pot smoker? Unless I'm misreading, it doesn't.
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Great news, but please change the title.
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On March 01 2009 07:01 -_- wrote: So, this might help the med marij provider / user guys, but does it help a normal pot smoker? Unless I'm misreading, it doesn't.
the more states that enact medicinal marijuana programs the easier it will be to receive marijuana on a much safer basis.
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16987 Posts
WAIT GUYS!
MARIJUANA IS A GATEWAY DRUG!!!
<_<
It looks like all those drug education videos students have to watch in junior high school are gonna need to be scrapped ;D
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On March 01 2009 07:01 -_- wrote: So, this might help the med marij provider / user guys, but does it help a normal pot smoker? Unless I'm misreading, it doesn't. Supposedly getting a prescription for weed is ridiculously easy. So while it's a pretty indirect way, normal guys will probably still be able to get it.
On March 01 2009 07:01 Koldblooded wrote: Great news, but please change the title. lol yeah, at first I thought it was kind of clever, but after I submitted it I realized how some people might be annoyed at being mislead.
I kind of like how the whole title fits in the side bar though, but if a mod wants to they can change it to "Medical marijuana mostly legalized in 13 states" or something like that.
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Yes, it's in my state lol
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how about 'mostly tolerated' instead? that seems more accurate, considering 13 states out of 50 isnt most
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On March 01 2009 07:02 Empyrean wrote: WAIT GUYS!
MARIJUANA IS A GATEWAY DRUG!!!
<_<
It looks like all those drug education videos students have to watch in junior high school are gonna need to be scrapped ;D
either that or they'll have to actually be educational instead
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if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it
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why would you want it heavily taxed? you'll just have illegal weed dealers making even more money than now.
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You should put Medical in Tittle kind of misleading but good that there letting it for medical reasons.
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z(<.<Z) woot! lol can't wait to see if florida makes it :D
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On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it
If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. Especially when growers / sellers can give it away for much much cheaper. If anything, you would be making the problem worse that way.
The goal is to eliminate the illegal dealers etc, and the violence and crime that go along with it. The best way to do that, is to not only legalize it, but sell it at a cheaper price than it is on the streets. Currently most marijuana goes for $10 a gram. however, dealers can buy it for close to $3 dollars a gram from a grower. If the government dropped the price to $3-4 dollars per gram, then it just wouldn't be worth it for weed dealers to continue selling it.
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It is still illegal under federal law.
Attorney General Eric Holder’s statement this week that the Drug Enforcement Administration would end its raids on state-approved marijuana dispensaries.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29433708
Also this news does not specify individuals.
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They should tax it like they do cigarettes, maybe to a lesser degree. The amount of revenue they'd generate off of weed tax would be enormous. And most people wouldn't stop smoking it because it's illegal. I don't know a single person that smokes weed (and pretty much everyone I know smokes weed) because it's illegal; I've never seen a single post here from someone saying they smoke it purely because it's illegal. This is a good step in the right direction, though.
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On March 01 2009 07:32 Tuxedo.Bond wrote:It is still illegal under federal law. Show nested quote +Attorney General Eric Holder’s statement this week that the Drug Enforcement Administration would end its raids on state-approved marijuana dispensaries. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29433708Also this news does not specify individuals. shit, could've sworn I read that they were stopping arrests as well...
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
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On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. Especially when growers / sellers can give it away for much much cheaper. If anything, you would be making the problem worse that way. The goal is to eliminate the illegal dealers etc, and the violence and crime that go along with it. The best way to do that, is to not only legalize it, but sell it at a cheaper price than it is on the streets. Currently most marijuana goes for $10 a gram. however, dealers can buy it for close to $3 dollars a gram from a grower. If the government dropped the price to $3-4 dollars per gram, then it just wouldn't be worth it for weed dealers to continue selling it.
Let's look at the tobacco industry. There isn't much illegal tobacco trade entering the U.S. I think if we had something similar to that regulated industry it would bring tax revenue, stop the overflow of prisons, stop the three-strikes rule getting out of hand, and stop the criminalization of drug use just to name a few. With legalization, government regulation and taxation is a necessary component not to just scrape every dollar out from users as some cynics would put it but to set up a functioning bureaucracy to stop further black markets.
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and if usa starts doing it, europe and other countries are sure to follow. Since it was USA's fault that it got illegalized in european countries too :/ (they followed usa)
If home growing would be legal too, non lazy people could get their weed sooo cheap
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Tobacco is not a drug though - the comparison isn't so easy.
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Definitely a step in the right direction, though its not true legalization and its not in every state.
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
On March 01 2009 08:07 Ace wrote: Tobacco is not a drug though - the comparison isn't so easy.
uh yeah it is. it has nicotine
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United States24682 Posts
On March 01 2009 07:35 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: They should tax it like they do cigarettes, maybe to a lesser degree. The amount of revenue they'd generate off of weed tax would be enormous. And most people wouldn't stop smoking it because it's illegal. I don't know a single person that smokes weed (and pretty much everyone I know smokes weed) because it's illegal; I've never seen a single post here from someone saying they smoke it purely because it's illegal. This is a good step in the right direction, though. That's not necessarily something that people would be consciously aware of if it were true.
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it just went to class B here...That's 5-10 if i get caught with intent.....
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On March 01 2009 08:07 Ace wrote: Tobacco is not a drug though - the comparison isn't so easy.
rofl so all those people are just getting addicted to nicotine because... it is cool?
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The title should say: Medical marijuana legalized in some states. edit: a mod really should fix that.
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Either way the point is you can't just say "ok, they did it with Cigarettes so omg they can do it with weed too!".
The illegal weed industry is monstrously huge. It won't just go away because it's legalized in a few states.
edit: Actually nm. It's just semantics I guess.
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Hooray for Obama and congratulations to all US citizens! One step closer to freedom (:
As with any pleasurable matter, marijuana should not be used to any excess, and it is of course not a 'gateway' drug. There's no such thing.
I'm still hoping that here in the netherlands, marijuanna (in general) will be completely legalized. Poltics and public ignorant opinion are still in the way. City wide experiments were very close to happening recently. I don't use weed, but it would go a long way to show how backwards the war on drugs is and undo something that popularity politics has caused.
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I don't consider it legal until people can grow fields of the stuff. Including hemp for industrial purposes.
Also legalizing something by choosing not to prosecute is kind of a bad deal. Technically if they chose to, they could individually target someone they didn't like.
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On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. Especially when growers / sellers can give it away for much much cheaper. If anything, you would be making the problem worse that way. The goal is to eliminate the illegal dealers etc, and the violence and crime that go along with it. The best way to do that, is to not only legalize it, but sell it at a cheaper price than it is on the streets. Currently most marijuana goes for $10 a gram. however, dealers can buy it for close to $3 dollars a gram from a grower. If the government dropped the price to $3-4 dollars per gram, then it just wouldn't be worth it for weed dealers to continue selling it.
Agreed. I'd imagine that the major players in the market of legal US marijuana would be the tobacco companies. With steep taxes, if they felt they couldn't gain an edge over illegal street sold marijuana, why wouldn't they lobby the government for lower taxes on it?
But also, and more probable, is that if it were made legal, why wouldn't marijuana, with all it's trendy strains, become like micro-breweries, a unique one in every major town and city?
Simply compare buying street marijuana (in a legal environment) to buying your beer from someone's basement... it doesn't make sense. Everyone is going to want a brand name, because it will be better, probably cheaper and most importantly, convenient.
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For real though how leniant will doctors be in ,prescribing marijuana. I highly doubt a young-adult would be able to walk up and say "I'm neurotic gimme weed~" and walk away with a prescription. I'm sure you need proof of a painful medical illness.
I'm just pumped cause that means the weed from Michigan wont get seized. Non-seizures will make it easier for dealers to expand their enterprise :O~
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On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive.
I think "legal" would trump "cheaper" for most people. Not dealing with criminals is a plus.
Not like you see a lot of illegal cigarette dealers. Well, I was going to say that before I read this: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-468es.html . So I don't know. I guess a balance would need to be achieved.
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On March 01 2009 10:08 MamiyaOtaru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. I think "legal" would trump "cheaper" for most people. Not dealing with criminals is a plus. Not like you see a lot of illegal cigarette dealers. Well, I was going to say that before I read this: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-468es.html . So I don't know. I guess a balance would need to be achieved.
So what about what we have going on now? Not like all these criminals are savages. Colleges are loaded with kids ready to make deals.
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On March 01 2009 08:07 Ace wrote: Tobacco is not a drug though - the comparison isn't so easy.
Actually tobacco has one of the highest addiction rates of any drugs, much higher than weed, which you can hardly even call addictive at all... Also, due to the fact that tobacco smokers generally smoke much more than pot-heads (think one pack a day vs. a joint / day), it turns out tobacco is also more dangerous for people's health.
But i agree, tobacco isn't a drug. Neither is weed. They're plants.
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Question is how many people will smoke weed once it's legalized, seeing as how it won't be cool anymore
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
TX PLZ GET MMJ , OR I WILL ACTUALLY MOVE TO CALI!
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On March 01 2009 07:02 Empyrean wrote: WAIT GUYS!
MARIJUANA IS A GATEWAY DRUG!!!
<_<
It looks like all those drug education videos students have to watch in junior high school are gonna need to be scrapped ;D No it is not, nothing in the MJ makes you want to try cocaine. That's the dealers/
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title is extremly misleading
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On March 01 2009 10:12 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 10:08 MamiyaOtaru wrote:On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. I think "legal" would trump "cheaper" for most people. Not dealing with criminals is a plus. Not like you see a lot of illegal cigarette dealers. Well, I was going to say that before I read this: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-468es.html . So I don't know. I guess a balance would need to be achieved. So what about what we have going on now? Not like all these criminals are savages. Colleges are loaded with kids ready to make deals.
it's more about convenience in my opinion.
i'd much rather walk into a shop, be offered several legit strains, pay and be on my way instead of having to go through the hassle of calling people and setting it all up.
you'd also have the satisfaction of knowing you're getting what you pay for. i see people all the time saying "ohh yeah i'm smoking some OG kush right now". oh, who told you it's kush? your dealer? k.
but still, all of that aside, the prices wouldn't change much if at all with taxes. take California for example, an 8th of some top of the line chronic runs for the same prices as it would on the street. weed is very cheap to grow.
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When i was in LA last year. I paid $75 for a 3 month license to relieve my "back pain". then walked down the beach to the "dispensary" and bought the fattest, cheapest 4 grams of cheese ever. Sadly I had to get on a plane the next day and was unable to finish the bag. luckily my buddy who I was staying with in LA was happy to oblige.
weed is only illegal because tobacco and alchohol companies lobby to keep it that way. Also the CIA sells most of the weed bought on the black market in the US. If you don't understand these concepts then you don't have a place in the legalization discussion.
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50% TAX!!!
Lol wow paying 30$ for 1 gram would suck. But what how would they sell it. Like would they sell it in like gas stations or would they still go with dealer system. And what would they do with all the organizations and the underaged dealers?
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I don't wanna read this thread just for the fact Texas is not included. /me afk
Edit:
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The government doesn't want to legalize weed because they are getting paid by taxes through cigarette sales. The cigarette companies don't want any competition.
At least that's what my history teacher from Berkeley says.
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4492 Posts
Yeah, I just saw the news too.
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On March 01 2009 12:11 Mynock wrote:Yeah, I just saw the news too. Shoped? lol
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2004 called and asked what you doing with its footage...
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not good imo shouldn't be legalize, just imagine like 70% of peple are stoners, that would be awesome and sad at the same time, yeah gonna get flamed.
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If weed were to ever be legalized in America it would be taxed to hell, just like cigarettes and alcohol. Once it's legal there will be no reason for drug dealers to deal weed. They will either move up to a new drug, or have insufficient funds to move up to the harder more expensive drugs. I honestly believe if we treat pot like the way we treat alcohol in this country(USA), with the same laws but the punishments lessened(ex. 21, not in public, don't drive under influence, etc.) this would be a great way for non smokers to digest the fact that weed is legal. Also,
On March 01 2009 10:37 omninmo wrote: weed is only illegal because tobacco and alchohol companies lobby to keep it that way. Also the CIA sells most of the weed bought on the black market in the US. If you don't understand these concepts then you don't have a place in the legalization discussion. The CIA doesn't care about something as minuscule as weed. They are too busy supplying the crack, cocaine, heroin and meth. That's where the real money is at.
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Sorry wont work it's been illegal too long has a stong base for illegal selling so legalizing it for money wont work.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 01 2009 13:13 IzzyCraft wrote: Sorry wont work it's been illegal too long has a stong base for illegal selling so legalizing it for money wont work. The generation moving into their 60s now are mostly familiar with marijuana, and the strong base for illegal selling is actually a reason to do it. Drug/people trafficking has become a MAJOR problem on the Mexican border and both governments need to find a solution to it. One way it to weaken their market by lessening restrictions on immigration and restrictions on the drugs they provide.
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On March 01 2009 12:17 eatmyshorts5 wrote:Shoped? lol
rofl
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On March 01 2009 12:27 ilj.psa wrote: not good imo shouldn't be legalize, just imagine like 70% of peple are stoners, that would be awesome and sad at the same time, yeah gonna get flamed. You could at least try to justify your outrageous claims.
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On March 01 2009 12:11 Mynock wrote:Yeah, I just saw the news too.
That's not photoshopped.
It's from 9/11.
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On March 01 2009 08:50 PhorClayton wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. Especially when growers / sellers can give it away for much much cheaper. If anything, you would be making the problem worse that way. The goal is to eliminate the illegal dealers etc, and the violence and crime that go along with it. The best way to do that, is to not only legalize it, but sell it at a cheaper price than it is on the streets. Currently most marijuana goes for $10 a gram. however, dealers can buy it for close to $3 dollars a gram from a grower. If the government dropped the price to $3-4 dollars per gram, then it just wouldn't be worth it for weed dealers to continue selling it. Agreed. I'd imagine that the major players in the market of legal US marijuana would be the tobacco companies. With steep taxes, if they felt they couldn't gain an edge over illegal street sold marijuana, why wouldn't they lobby the government for lower taxes on it? But also, and more probable, is that if it were made legal, why wouldn't marijuana, with all it's trendy strains, become like micro-breweries, a unique one in every major town and city?
Simply compare buying street marijuana (in a legal environment) to buying your beer from someone's basement... it doesn't make sense. Everyone is going to want a brand name, because it will be better, probably cheaper and most importantly, convenient.
Tooth Paste For Dinner, good timing:
![[image loading]](http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/030109/home-brewed-beer.gif)
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On March 01 2009 16:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Nor is it funny.
I laughed a bit to be honest.
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On March 01 2009 12:19 Kennelie wrote: 2004 called and asked what you doing with its footage...
i would guess 2001 was calling..
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On March 01 2009 08:20 Piy wrote: it just went to class B here...That's 5-10 if i get caught with intent..... I know a guy who just got caught with definite intent and things don't look good for him.
I'm glad to hear about this, progress is being made and hopefully the government here will change their tune.
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On March 01 2009 14:24 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 12:27 ilj.psa wrote: not good imo shouldn't be legalize, just imagine like 70% of peple are stoners, that would be awesome and sad at the same time, yeah gonna get flamed. You could at least try to justify your outrageous claims. why is it outrageouus?, the number of stoners will indeed go up, i was joking about "70%". But legalizing marijuana in a whole state/country isn't a good preposition in terms of morals and health IMO. * expecting some response that theres a study that marijuana doesn't affect your health *
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well.. The stoners will be at least more "accepted" and stuff. And stoners are better than wifebeater alcoholics.
Legalizing weed would probably lower alcohol use.
Because alcohol nor weed fits everyone :p
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Valhalla18444 Posts
thread title changed to actually reflect what happened -_-
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On March 02 2009 01:09 ilj.psa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 14:24 Mastermind wrote:On March 01 2009 12:27 ilj.psa wrote: not good imo shouldn't be legalize, just imagine like 70% of peple are stoners, that would be awesome and sad at the same time, yeah gonna get flamed. You could at least try to justify your outrageous claims. why is it outrageouus?, the number of stoners will indeed go up, i was joking about "70%". But legalizing marijuana in a whole state/country isn't a good preposition in terms of morals and health IMO. * expecting some response that theres a study that marijuana doesn't affect your health * I think the general argument is that while marijuana does affect your health, it doesn't affect it any worse than alcohol or tobacco. Can't make an argument against it affecting morals, since that's purely subjective.
Edit: thanks FS, I was kind of regretting the title I put up originally =/
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On March 02 2009 01:09 ilj.psa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 14:24 Mastermind wrote:On March 01 2009 12:27 ilj.psa wrote: not good imo shouldn't be legalize, just imagine like 70% of peple are stoners, that would be awesome and sad at the same time, yeah gonna get flamed. You could at least try to justify your outrageous claims. why is it outrageouus?, the number of stoners will indeed go up, i was joking about "70%". But legalizing marijuana in a whole state/country isn't a good preposition in terms of morals and health IMO. * expecting some response that theres a study that marijuana doesn't affect your health *
Yeah, forget that the majority of drug related death and crime is violence over the right to sell illegal drugs, and competition between cartels.
Forget that the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness involves ingesting whichever chemicals may or may not please you.
Forget that 70% is an outrageous and idiotic number.
Who cares if more people get stoned? Jesus, half the people who run this country are probably coke addicts anyway. Plenty of people do drugs and succeed.
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wow this is huge
DEA fucking with the state laws has always been such a pain in the ass, now that's going to stop it's pretty much weed everywhere. all you need is to know someone who can buy medical MJ, and how difficult is that?
weed isn't illegal because it fucks you up. it has never fucked anyone up. it's only illegal because pharmaceutical companies, alchohol and tobac companies are against it.
natural plant = no patent = no ridiculously overpriced good with inelastic demand for 20 years
and alcohol and tobac? well... recreative drug with no hangover the next day (maybe a little slow and a little high still) and no fucked up lungs and addiction and cancer.... hm....
though... i only see it as a pain reliever and not really the panacea it's hyped up to be by the people fighting for it to be legalized. I see it as a recreational drug that should be legalized and taxed pretty heavily.
my god the price difference will not make a difference! those of you saying if it's 50% more expensive people will go back to their dealers is talking right out of their asses! haven't you learned anything? people buy stuff because of brands! people are WILLING to shell out enormous amounts of cash for Levis, Nike, Smirnoff, Marlboro its ridiculous... and now something like weed gets legalized and you know that it will be top quality bud with a name? I've never heard any of my friends buy their alcohol from homebrewers or anyone that smokes get their smoke from tobac growers. only as a one time thing if a friend made some wine or something they would get it as a gift, but otherwise nothing big.
to people saying that people will pop up at their jobs all high and there will be traffic accidents all over... I don't see drunk people walking the streets, going to work, crashing their cars so much that it turns into a serious problem. of course there will be idiots, but those are the same idiots that are irresponsible regardless what substance abuse they're having.
MJ is cheap, easy to grow, has no serious health effects, has no hangover. Hell, it's about time the govt stepped in and tried to regulate the inflated prices and cashed in on this huge business.
and let's not forget alcohol used to be illegal, what a shitstorm that was.
the next/real question is cocaine and heroine. legalize and tax? I think -that- is a more discussion worthy topic. it's going to be around anyway. aggregate demand will always be present. but i'm really split on coke and smack.
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In general in countries where drugs have been legalized, drug abuse has gone down. Everything should be legal; it's your own body and health and if you want to abuse it so be it.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On March 02 2009 01:09 ilj.psa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 14:24 Mastermind wrote:On March 01 2009 12:27 ilj.psa wrote: not good imo shouldn't be legalize, just imagine like 70% of peple are stoners, that would be awesome and sad at the same time, yeah gonna get flamed. You could at least try to justify your outrageous claims. why is it outrageouus?, the number of stoners will indeed go up, i was joking about "70%". But legalizing marijuana in a whole state/country isn't a good preposition in terms of morals and health IMO. * expecting some response that theres a study that marijuana doesn't affect your health *
Dude, it really isn't bad for your health.
On another note : Marijuana is pretty much legal in all north South American countries exept Venezuela.
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I hope tax exempt status for churches is next to go.
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Your DEA is busy doing cocaine, opium and heroin business. For your information that is the product that comes mostly from Afghanistan. You can guess how the drug industry has grown over there since the anti terrorist guys stepped in. Wohoo
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8748 Posts
On March 01 2009 16:08 PhorClayton wrote:That's not photoshopped. It's from 9/11. The text at the bottom is photoshopped :o
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United States22883 Posts
On March 02 2009 02:46 eStoniaNBoY wrote: Your DEA is busy doing cocaine, opium and heroin business. For your information that is the product that comes mostly from Afghanistan. You can guess how the drug industry has grown over there since the anti terrorist guys stepped in. Wohoo Estonia fucking sucks.
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4492 Posts
On March 01 2009 16:27 choboPEon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 12:19 Kennelie wrote: 2004 called and asked what you doing with its footage... i would guess 2001 was calling..
Are you saying that waiting 8 years to post a picture is... unreasonable?
The relief is mesmerizing!
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Jibba:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium
"After regularly producing 70% of the world's opium, Afghanistan decreased production to 74 tons per year under a ban by the Taliban in 2000, a move which cut production by 94 per cent. A year later, after American and British troops invaded Afghanistan, removed the Taliban and installed the interim government, the land under cultivation leapt back to 285 square miles, with Afghanistan supplanting Burma to become the world's largest opium producer once more. Opium production in that country has increased rapidly since, reaching an all-time high in 2006. According to DEA statistics, Afghanistan's production of oven-dried opium increased to 1,278 tons in 2002, more than doubled by 2003, and nearly doubled again during 2004"
In 2006 its 82% of world supply. In 2009 its how much?
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On March 02 2009 03:29 eStoniaNBoY wrote:Jibba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium "After regularly producing 70% of the world's opium, Afghanistan decreased production to 74 tons per year under a ban by the Taliban in 2000, a move which cut production by 94 per cent. A year later, after American and British troops invaded Afghanistan, removed the Taliban and installed the interim government, the land under cultivation leapt back to 285 square miles, with Afghanistan supplanting Burma to become the world's largest opium producer once more. Opium production in that country has increased rapidly since, reaching an all-time high in 2006. According to DEA statistics, Afghanistan's production of oven-dried opium increased to 1,278 tons in 2002, more than doubled by 2003, and nearly doubled again during 2004" In 2006 its 82% of world supply. In 2009 its how much? Do you have something against Afghanistan?
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United States22883 Posts
On March 02 2009 03:29 eStoniaNBoY wrote:Jibba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium "After regularly producing 70% of the world's opium, Afghanistan decreased production to 74 tons per year under a ban by the Taliban in 2000, a move which cut production by 94 per cent. A year later, after American and British troops invaded Afghanistan, removed the Taliban and installed the interim government, the land under cultivation leapt back to 285 square miles, with Afghanistan supplanting Burma to become the world's largest opium producer once more. Opium production in that country has increased rapidly since, reaching an all-time high in 2006. According to DEA statistics, Afghanistan's production of oven-dried opium increased to 1,278 tons in 2002, more than doubled by 2003, and nearly doubled again during 2004" In 2006 its 82% of world supply. In 2009 its how much? There's no citation on most of that, and it provides absolutely zero form of causation. The obvious correlation is that the Taliban used oppressive means to ban production (for 1 year out of 20+ of their reign), and by removing that oppressive force, it was allowed to grow again. It still has no relevance to 99% of what your first post said.
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Nice, if it gets fully legalized that'll be pretty cool.
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On March 01 2009 10:13 exeprime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 08:07 Ace wrote: Tobacco is not a drug though - the comparison isn't so easy. Actually tobacco has one of the highest addiction rates of any drugs, much higher than weed, which you can hardly even call addictive at all... Also, due to the fact that tobacco smokers generally smoke much more than pot-heads (think one pack a day vs. a joint / day), it turns out tobacco is also more dangerous for people's health. But i agree, tobacco isn't a drug. Neither is weed. They're plants.
semantics, plants secrete hormones.
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United States4471 Posts
On March 01 2009 08:07 Ace wrote: Tobacco is not a drug though - the comparison isn't so easy.
On March 01 2009 10:13 exeprime wrote:But i agree, tobacco isn't a drug. Neither is weed. They're plants.
Really? I mean, c'mon, really? All you have to do is use google or do any minimal amounts of research to show how stupid it is to claim that tobacco isn't a drug, and that something being a plant somehow makes it not a drug.
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I dont really get why ppl are so hyped about medicinal marijuana being legal. I mean isnt the only thing its gonna be used for if you have some pain with your eyes, and stuff like that? Imo I dont think it's gonna be very easy to get, or even find someone who can get it for you.
Also I never understood ppl, who says weed doesnt fuck ppl up. They obviously havent smoked weed for very long. I've seen ppl getting pretty fucked up the first time they smoke it. I havent with alcohol. Also there is a chance of getting a severe psychosis. I understand why it's illegal.
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On March 02 2009 01:09 ilj.psa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 14:24 Mastermind wrote:On March 01 2009 12:27 ilj.psa wrote: not good imo shouldn't be legalize, just imagine like 70% of peple are stoners, that would be awesome and sad at the same time, yeah gonna get flamed. You could at least try to justify your outrageous claims. why is it outrageouus?, the number of stoners will indeed go up, i was joking about "70%". But legalizing marijuana in a whole state/country isn't a good preposition in terms of morals and health IMO. * expecting some response that theres a study that marijuana doesn't affect your health *
I don't smoke but I'm all for legalization.
Yes marijuana is not good for your health in heavy excess, neither is alcohol, neither is fat, neither is pepsi or red meats. But aside from that, weed is very low on dependency and toxicity levels.
An Overdose on cannabis is unheard of because the body can tolerate high amounts of THC.
Cannabis is safer than alcohol
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On March 02 2009 03:34 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 03:29 eStoniaNBoY wrote:Jibba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium "After regularly producing 70% of the world's opium, Afghanistan decreased production to 74 tons per year under a ban by the Taliban in 2000, a move which cut production by 94 per cent. A year later, after American and British troops invaded Afghanistan, removed the Taliban and installed the interim government, the land under cultivation leapt back to 285 square miles, with Afghanistan supplanting Burma to become the world's largest opium producer once more. Opium production in that country has increased rapidly since, reaching an all-time high in 2006. According to DEA statistics, Afghanistan's production of oven-dried opium increased to 1,278 tons in 2002, more than doubled by 2003, and nearly doubled again during 2004" In 2006 its 82% of world supply. In 2009 its how much? Do you have something against Afghanistan?
He has something against US policy on drugs.
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United States4471 Posts
On March 02 2009 04:35 Rev0lution wrote:I don't smoke but I'm all for legalization. Yes marijuana is not good for your health in heavy excess, neither is alcohol, neither is fat, neither is pepsi or red meats. But aside from that, weed is very low on dependency and toxicity levels. An Overdose on cannabis is unheard of because the body can tolerate high amounts of THC. Cannabis is safer than alcohol
This really is the key. Obviously, marijuana can be harmful in several ways if not used responsibly. But the same is true for alcohol and tobacco, and the fact is that both of those substances aren't illegal. You can't really condemn marijuana, while at the same time supporting or approving alcohol and/or tobacco.
Personally, I think that all three are harmful, and that people should generally be discouraged from using it if at all possible. However, I'm also well aware that you're never going to get everyone to not use it, and that it's not so dangerous that we have to make it illegal to possess it or use it reasonably. Just as with sex and the prevention of STD's, the trick is not to tell people to abstain completely, but to just be responsible and take appropriate steps to be as safe as possible.
As to this particular action by Obama, I support it since it's basically clearing up an inconsistency in the letter of the law and its enforcement (legalized by the states, but treated as illegal by DEA). However, I would like to see some steps taken to improve the process by which people can obtain prescriptions, because it really does appear to be too easy to get it now. I anticipate that this will be the next step, because Obama's not going to want to be seen as completely legalizing marijuana, which he would be seen as doing if he allowed people to own and use "medicinal marijuana" without taking any steps to make sure it's only being distributed for medicinal purposes. He's said it's okay to own and use it for medicinal purposes, so he's now got to make sure it's clear that he's taking steps to make sure it's ONLY being used for that purpose. The complete legalization of marijuana as recreational, as well as medical, uses isn't here yet.
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On March 02 2009 04:33 MadNeSs wrote: I dont really get why ppl are so hyped about medicinal marijuana being legal. I mean isnt the only thing its gonna be used for if you have some pain with your eyes, and stuff like that? Imo I dont think it's gonna be very easy to get, or even find someone who can get it for you.
Also I never understood ppl, who says weed doesnt fuck ppl up. They obviously havent smoked weed for very long. I've seen ppl getting pretty fucked up the first time they smoke it. I havent with alcohol. Also there is a chance of getting a severe psychosis. I understand why it's illegal.
How fucked up have you seen people get from smoking pot? Unless you smoke an incredible amount, you're not going to be that fucked up. The worst I've ever seen anyone get it a little freaked out (which is probably partially due it being illegal), somewhat uncontrollable muscle contractions in arms/legs, along with severe dizzyness, vomiting and then falling asleep.
But I've seen much worse for alcohol. I've never seen anyone throw up all night because of marijuana, at most usually once or twice. I've seen people basically vomiting for an hour straight after a night of heavy drinking. I've also seen people black out and not remember anything for several hours from alcohol. I've never personally seen it, but I'm sure people have died the first time they drink, whereas nobody has ever died from smoking. What effects have people gotten from pot that are worse than these things?
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Isn't this like the perfectly normal thing to do? Since it's already legalized by the state and all... Not sure how U S and A works, but the situation before this change sounds a little absurd.
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On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. Especially when growers / sellers can give it away for much much cheaper. If anything, you would be making the problem worse that way. The goal is to eliminate the illegal dealers etc, and the violence and crime that go along with it. The best way to do that, is to not only legalize it, but sell it at a cheaper price than it is on the streets. Currently most marijuana goes for $10 a gram. however, dealers can buy it for close to $3 dollars a gram from a grower. If the government dropped the price to $3-4 dollars per gram, then it just wouldn't be worth it for weed dealers to continue selling it. holy shit 10 bucks a gram? for regular weed u get about 7-8g for 10 dollars where i live
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The original idea that the DEA did not respect the statewide laws is not as absurd as everyone seems to try to make it out, we all know that the U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
Anyway I'm glad there is some headway being made in marijuana legalization, and anyone who is insinuating that this will not affect the non-medicinal users have not visited Oaksterdam, California.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam
+ Show Spoiler +Measure Z Clubs are businesses that sells cannabis to people over the age of 18. One private club in Oaksterdam sells cannabis and food containing cannabis to adults who do not hold valid physician recommendations for medical marijuana, which are needed to obtain county issued patient identification cards in California. One such club is named after Oakland's Measure Z, a city ballot initiative which makes the private sales, cultivation, and possession of cannabis the lowest police priority and mandates that the City of Oakland tax and regulate cannabis as soon as possible under state law.
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On March 01 2009 10:22 Osmoses wrote:Question is how many people will smoke weed once it's legalized, seeing as how it won't be cool anymore  whoever smokes weed to be "cool" is a retard .....
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weed keeps the news interesting Even though I dont use any, it still is entertaining
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=083128310F3EBD4A Thats to all of you who think weed is bad. Gosh, I still can't belive people think it will " hurt you " in the long run. My friends great grandpa was smoking weed for 50 years, he was the healthiest and wisest/smartest man I know. He even lived till he was 96 so beat that. Lol I sound like a 10 year old.
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On March 02 2009 06:01 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 04:33 MadNeSs wrote: I dont really get why ppl are so hyped about medicinal marijuana being legal. I mean isnt the only thing its gonna be used for if you have some pain with your eyes, and stuff like that? Imo I dont think it's gonna be very easy to get, or even find someone who can get it for you.
Also I never understood ppl, who says weed doesnt fuck ppl up. They obviously havent smoked weed for very long. I've seen ppl getting pretty fucked up the first time they smoke it. I havent with alcohol. Also there is a chance of getting a severe psychosis. I understand why it's illegal. How fucked up have you seen people get from smoking pot? Unless you smoke an incredible amount, you're not going to be that fucked up. The worst I've ever seen anyone get it a little freaked out (which is probably partially due it being illegal), somewhat uncontrollable muscle contractions in arms/legs, along with severe dizzyness, vomiting and then falling asleep. But I've seen much worse for alcohol. I've never seen anyone throw up all night because of marijuana, at most usually once or twice. I've seen people basically vomiting for an hour straight after a night of heavy drinking. I've also seen people black out and not remember anything for several hours from alcohol. I've never personally seen it, but I'm sure people have died the first time they drink, whereas nobody has ever died from smoking. What effects have people gotten from pot that are worse than these things?
Well, I had a periode where I was smoking basically everyday, and there always came new ppl everyday, some who hadnt ever tried it.
Once there was this girl, who smoked one head (dont know what ppl call it in english), and I swear she got completely fucked up, she didnt understand shit, and all she said didnt make any sense, and when you asked her something she only said jibberish. It's hard to really explain, but I've never seen anyone getting that fucked up, from smoking weed before. Also their was a lady friend of mine, who always got fucking fucked up, and got totally fucked up. I once asked her (hope this makes sense in english): "Bettina, is your name spelled with one or two t's?" and she said: "What...!? Tennis racket?" - WTF?
Also there is the paranoia stuff. I remember one of my friend some years ago, when we were smoking some weed at his apartment. Then suddenly he was just convinced that the cops had planted microphones all over his apartment no matter what we said he still believed it. Then someone ringed the door bell,and he hurried into the bedroom and jumped into the bed, because he thought it was the cops.
That being said. I dont mind weed at all, but comparing it to alcohol is just stupid, it is pretty dangerous. However I'm pretty sure alot of ppl can smoke it every weekend for at alot of years, without having ant psychotic episodes or anything. But seriously saying, that weed should be legal, is just a sign of ignorance.
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On March 02 2009 06:45 Murk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 10:22 Osmoses wrote:Question is how many people will smoke weed once it's legalized, seeing as how it won't be cool anymore  whoever smokes weed to be "cool" is a retard .....
Then the average IQ of my school just dropped to about a 65.
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Man, I'm so happy Obama is our president!
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
Awesome. I cought it in time <3
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On March 02 2009 09:05 Clasic wrote:Awesome. I cought it in time <3 sick as hell haha ee han timing
fuck that, pot should be legal for recreational use too
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United States22883 Posts
On March 02 2009 09:05 soybomb wrote: Man, I'm so happy Obama is our president! To be perfectly honest, it's not tied that deeply into Obama's ideology. We know he smoked, but given the circumstances most possible presidents (probably even McCain) would have done this too.
Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. DEA has to cut their budget.
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
On March 01 2009 07:02 Empyrean wrote: WAIT GUYS!
MARIJUANA IS A GATEWAY DRUG!!!
<_<
It looks like all those drug education videos students have to watch in junior high school are gonna need to be scrapped ;D
Because it is illegal is the only reason its a gateway drug imo.
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I have to think that legalizing marijuana would probably contribute to our growing obesity problem. I mean it basically encourages laying about and eating alot, the two main reasons Americans are fat to begin with.
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That's a pretty good argument, GeneralStan. I was thinking that legalizing it would be a pretty good idea because of the extra tax dollars. I suppose if the revenue was used for weight loss programs...
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Isnt it kinda paradoxal that the republicans are the party of individual responsability but are against a shitload of personal liberties ?
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...I don't like weed....personally hate being high. I'd rather be drunk. And I only enjoy being high WHILE I'm drunk. Kinda pisses me off.
Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being a felony charge. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Raise the fine, or offer the option of 2 months jail time. Stiffer penalties is my philosophy. That argument that it's not addictive is retarded in my opinion.
Like I said. I despise being high.
But that's just how I feel.
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A felony charge? We are in this position because of stiffer penalties, state prisons are over crowding and there are ridiculous future projections on the prison population's for the near future and the amount of prisons that we need to build to occupy new incoming offenders. Housing inmates is super expensive, it cost A LOT to build just a single cell, things have to be made special so that prisoners can't turn their environment into weapons etc..Stiffer penalties often have adverse affects, this is one of those situations. There are already drastically harsh penalties when considering repeat offender statues and California's 3 strike laws. Harsher penalties is a ridiculous idea in my opinion and have not heard any suggestion from any of my crj professors or law enforcement individuals I've met. Drug use is an educational/health problem, there is no solution the criminal justice system can offer that can help, the justice system is only reactive when we need a proactive solution.
Edit: In terms of marihuana being addictive, I don't know anyone personally that smokes everyday, I know people who smoke on the weekend or on occasion, or in other words very rarely. It may be slightly addictive but I know people who smoke cigarettes everyday, packs a day, for years, a lifetime. I think it's safe to say relative to many other substances marihuana is at the bottom of the barrel. Anyway, I don't think what the issue should be is addictiveness or even the consequences to a person's body, I think at issue is if we should have the right to put whatever we want into our bodies.
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On March 05 2009 05:58 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...I don't like weed....personally hate being high. I'd rather be drunk. And I only enjoy being high WHILE I'm drunk. Kinda pisses me off.
Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being a felony charge. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Raise the fine, or offer the option of 2 months jail time. Stiffer penalties is my philosophy. That argument that it's not addictive is retarded in my opinion.
Like I said. I despise being high.
But that's just how I feel.
...I don't like alcohol....personally I hate being drunk. I'd rather be high. And I have never managed to enjoy being drunk ever, it even activates my migraine and i become this really anoying person that curses everyone talks really loud and pass out on my vomit.
Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being completely legalized. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Get some tax going and fix some of the fucking HEALTH problems your country has.
Like I said. I despise being drunk, and I can be as biased as you.
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On March 01 2009 07:32 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:10 radiumz0rz wrote: if it gets heavily, heavily taxed and regulated, i'm for it If you put heavy taxes on weed then you are not solving the problem at all. Legalizing it with a severely steep tax on top would only make illegal weed dealers more prosperous because no one is going to buy something alot more expensive. Especially when growers / sellers can give it away for much much cheaper. If anything, you would be making the problem worse that way. The goal is to eliminate the illegal dealers etc, and the violence and crime that go along with it. The best way to do that, is to not only legalize it, but sell it at a cheaper price than it is on the streets. Currently most marijuana goes for $10 a gram. however, dealers can buy it for close to $3 dollars a gram from a grower. If the government dropped the price to $3-4 dollars per gram, then it just wouldn't be worth it for weed dealers to continue selling it.
Truth!
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On March 05 2009 07:27 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2009 05:58 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...I don't like weed....personally hate being high. I'd rather be drunk. And I only enjoy being high WHILE I'm drunk. Kinda pisses me off.
Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being a felony charge. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Raise the fine, or offer the option of 2 months jail time. Stiffer penalties is my philosophy. That argument that it's not addictive is retarded in my opinion.
Like I said. I despise being high.
But that's just how I feel. ...I don't like alcohol....personally I hate being drunk. I'd rather be high. And I have never managed to enjoy being drunk ever, it even activates my migraine and i become this really anoying person that curses everyone talks really loud and pass out on my vomit. Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being completely legalized. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Get some tax going and fix some of the fucking HEALTH problems your country has. Like I said. I despise being drunk, and I can be as biased as you.
As I stated, that was "just how I feel."
I ADMITTED I was biased.
It's how I feel. I'm fairly more conservative in that respect.
Yea, revoke the right to vote and eligibility for government programs. Generally those are consequences of felony charges.
But thanks for attacking me and "health" problems my country has. I don't give two shits about that. I didn't make my post about health. It's not an issue I'm discussing right now. Plz ignore it and focus on what I said. I didn't attack anyone else. I feel addiction is a retarded argument because the argument is more about the definition of addiction. I stated how I feel about an issue I have to deal with daily. My gf, and several of my best friends, spend quite an amount of time stoned. (And for the guy who said he doesn't know anyone who smokes everyday, I have seen my gf and one of my best friend, and his gf at the time smoke almost every day over the summer. Of course more than once on most days too.)
I stated rather specific things for making it a felony. Not all felonies = Jail time. Just the penalties of having a felony on your record come of it. Thats the bigger consequence of my idea of stiffer penalties. But I really don't care. I won't enjoy smoking, so it doesn't matter. I was just annoyed I added that little disclaimer of "its just how I feel" and the idiot still had to attack my statement like I was actually doing something to enforce it.
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Apparently how much you personally enjoy something is a valid argument for its legality now? K.
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On March 05 2009 01:46 GeneralStan wrote: I have to think that legalizing marijuana would probably contribute to our growing obesity problem. I mean it basically encourages laying about and eating alot, the two main reasons Americans are fat to begin with.
Ever seen a fat junkie?
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On March 05 2009 05:58 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...I don't like weed....personally hate being high. I'd rather be drunk. And I only enjoy being high WHILE I'm drunk. Kinda pisses me off.
Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being a felony charge. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Raise the fine, or offer the option of 2 months jail time. Stiffer penalties is my philosophy. That argument that it's not addictive is retarded in my opinion.
Like I said. I despise being high.
But that's just how I feel.
On March 05 2009 05:58 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I stated rather specific things for making it a felony. Not all felonies = Jail time. Just the penalties of having a felony on your record come of it. Thats the bigger consequence of my idea of stiffer penalties. But I really don't care. I won't enjoy smoking, so it doesn't matter. I was just annoyed I added that little disclaimer of "its just how I feel" and the idiot still had to attack my statement like I was actually doing something to enforce it.
You didn't state any good reasons to stiff these penalties. Your post was biased, and not giving any reasons for what you are proposing besided 'I hate weed cause I dont like getting high' and comes off as really arrogant and self-centered.
On topic, legalizing the stuff is probably the best solution long-term, as the government can control both the quality (stuff you buy on the street poses much more health risks) and the quantity of avaible weed, prevent teenagers from getting the stuff, and marginalize criminals. Weed itself is much less harmfull than alcohol, so I don't see why it can't be legal. Government can make money on it and save money on policework.
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On March 05 2009 01:46 GeneralStan wrote: I have to think that legalizing marijuana would probably contribute to our growing obesity problem. I mean it basically encourages laying about and eating alot, the two main reasons Americans are fat to begin with. I'd say 90% of stoners are skinny bastards, myself included. This is a ridiculous fear.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
Fuck, druglords won this round ((
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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On March 05 2009 14:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2009 07:27 D10 wrote:On March 05 2009 05:58 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...I don't like weed....personally hate being high. I'd rather be drunk. And I only enjoy being high WHILE I'm drunk. Kinda pisses me off.
Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being a felony charge. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Raise the fine, or offer the option of 2 months jail time. Stiffer penalties is my philosophy. That argument that it's not addictive is retarded in my opinion.
Like I said. I despise being high.
But that's just how I feel. ...I don't like alcohol....personally I hate being drunk. I'd rather be high. And I have never managed to enjoy being drunk ever, it even activates my migraine and i become this really anoying person that curses everyone talks really loud and pass out on my vomit. Personally I prefer the method of having possession and sale of Marijuana being completely legalized. Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs. Get some tax going and fix some of the fucking HEALTH problems your country has. Like I said. I despise being drunk, and I can be as biased as you. As I stated, that was "just how I feel." I ADMITTED I was biased. It's how I feel. I'm fairly more conservative in that respect. Yea, revoke the right to vote and eligibility for government programs. Generally those are consequences of felony charges. But thanks for attacking me and "health" problems my country has. I don't give two shits about that. I didn't make my post about health. It's not an issue I'm discussing right now. Plz ignore it and focus on what I said. I didn't attack anyone else. I feel addiction is a retarded argument because the argument is more about the definition of addiction. I stated how I feel about an issue I have to deal with daily. My gf, and several of my best friends, spend quite an amount of time stoned. (And for the guy who said he doesn't know anyone who smokes everyday, I have seen my gf and one of my best friend, and his gf at the time smoke almost every day over the summer. Of course more than once on most days too.) I stated rather specific things for making it a felony. Not all felonies = Jail time. Just the penalties of having a felony on your record come of it. Thats the bigger consequence of my idea of stiffer penalties. But I really don't care. I won't enjoy smoking, so it doesn't matter. I was just annoyed I added that little disclaimer of "its just how I feel" and the idiot still had to attack my statement like I was actually doing something to enforce it.
Oh well, what I meant with your phrase "Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs" was, say enough is enough, remove all freedom of choosing in this matter from the people, legalize it completely and disregard all other solutions.
And Weed is a health problem, thats what people dont get.
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On March 02 2009 07:36 MadNeSs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 06:01 PJA wrote:On March 02 2009 04:33 MadNeSs wrote: I dont really get why ppl are so hyped about medicinal marijuana being legal. I mean isnt the only thing its gonna be used for if you have some pain with your eyes, and stuff like that? Imo I dont think it's gonna be very easy to get, or even find someone who can get it for you.
Also I never understood ppl, who says weed doesnt fuck ppl up. They obviously havent smoked weed for very long. I've seen ppl getting pretty fucked up the first time they smoke it. I havent with alcohol. Also there is a chance of getting a severe psychosis. I understand why it's illegal. How fucked up have you seen people get from smoking pot? Unless you smoke an incredible amount, you're not going to be that fucked up. The worst I've ever seen anyone get it a little freaked out (which is probably partially due it being illegal), somewhat uncontrollable muscle contractions in arms/legs, along with severe dizzyness, vomiting and then falling asleep. But I've seen much worse for alcohol. I've never seen anyone throw up all night because of marijuana, at most usually once or twice. I've seen people basically vomiting for an hour straight after a night of heavy drinking. I've also seen people black out and not remember anything for several hours from alcohol. I've never personally seen it, but I'm sure people have died the first time they drink, whereas nobody has ever died from smoking. What effects have people gotten from pot that are worse than these things? Well, I had a periode where I was smoking basically everyday, and there always came new ppl everyday, some who hadnt ever tried it. Once there was this girl, who smoked one head (dont know what ppl call it in english), and I swear she got completely fucked up, she didnt understand shit, and all she said didnt make any sense, and when you asked her something she only said jibberish. It's hard to really explain, but I've never seen anyone getting that fucked up, from smoking weed before. Also their was a lady friend of mine, who always got fucking fucked up, and got totally fucked up. I once asked her (hope this makes sense in english): "Bettina, is your name spelled with one or two t's?" and she said: "What...!? Tennis racket?" - WTF? Also there is the paranoia stuff. I remember one of my friend some years ago, when we were smoking some weed at his apartment. Then suddenly he was just convinced that the cops had planted microphones all over his apartment no matter what we said he still believed it. Then someone ringed the door bell,and he hurried into the bedroom and jumped into the bed, because he thought it was the cops. That being said. I dont mind weed at all, but comparing it to alcohol is just stupid, it is pretty dangerous. However I'm pretty sure alot of ppl can smoke it every weekend for at alot of years, without having ant psychotic episodes or anything. But seriously saying, that weed should be legal, is just a sign of ignorance.
Everything you say about this general subject is a sign of ignorance. Please go absorb facts and use them instead of using RIDICULOUS and irrelevant personal experiences.
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shit happens sometimes. not too often, but it does.
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On March 05 2009 17:34 Piretes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2009 01:46 GeneralStan wrote: I have to think that legalizing marijuana would probably contribute to our growing obesity problem. I mean it basically encourages laying about and eating alot, the two main reasons Americans are fat to begin with. Ever seen a fat junkie?
well... hello ?
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On March 05 2009 19:30 Bifur wrote:Fuck, druglords won this round  ((
this shows how little you know how the world works... actually this is terrible news for drug lords.
Ultimately the ONLY way to defeat drug lords is to legalize drugs, there is no other way.
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Finally people start to realize it's just a herb. Great news.
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On March 07 2009 17:29 Bub wrote: Finally people start to realize it's just a herb. Great news.
this is a dumb way too justify its legality ffs...
there are herbs who will fuck you up and lab chemicals that are totally harmless, its simply that marihuana/THC is a very safe drug.
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nobody said all "herbs" should be legal. mj is just one of those drugs that can truly be classified as a herb clean and out, without the bs. It is a harmless drug throughout. the positives mj has far outweights the negatives it has. It had to become legal sooner or later. It's just been a slow progress because of ignorants.
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Obama just wants people to blaze so they'll forget about the economy
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[/QUOTE]
Oh well, what I meant with your phrase "Revoke right to vote and eligibility for other government programs" was, say enough is enough, remove all freedom of choosing in this matter from the people, legalize it completely and disregard all other solutions.
And Weed is a health problem, thats what people dont get. [/QUOTE]
So is obesity. and its a much (no pun intended) bigger problem. Anyway, thc is a very safe drug with a high theraputic index and has realitivly few side effects; most of which are mild. The real ignorance in this debate centers around peoples view of 'proper' drugs (those which are accepted like caffine or perscribed by a doctor) verses those which have negitive sterotypes assioated with them, be them racial, geographical, or social. A drug is alot like a gun, its not really a bad thing by itself and it often depends on the intent of the user to determine if it is a harmfull substance.
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Marijuana should be decriminalized at the very least. It's incredible how some people get 15+ years in prison for just plants. It's a waste of resources trying to keep out such a frequently used and generally harmless drug.
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On March 01 2009 06:45 Falcynn wrote:Only in the 13 states where medical marijuana is allowed by state law however. + Show Spoiler +We don't want to over-excite anyone out there on the West Coast who may currently be engaged in wake-and-bake, but marijuana is now, for all practical purposes, legal in 13 states. Thanks to Obama!
Our new US attorney general, Eric "Loves Marijuana" Holder, said this past week that the federal government is no longer going to raid medical marijuana distributors, if medical marijuana is legal in the state. Under the Bush administration, it was nice and everything to live somewhere like, oh, California, where medical marijuana could be easily had, but it wasn't completely nice, because the US govt. officially considered marijuana illegal still, so federal types would come in and raid medical marijuana places, being all like, fuck your state laws! But Holder said the federal government is scrapping all that, and going by what Barack "Marijuana is Good" Obama said during the campaign:
"My attitude is if the science and the doctors suggest that the best palliative care and the way to relieve pain and suffering is medical marijuana, then that's something I'm open to," Obama said in November 2007 at a campaign stop in Audubon, Iowa. "There's no difference between that and morphine when it comes to just giving people relief from pain."
And since getting a medical marijuana prescription in Cali is as easy as telling some weedhead doctor "I have stress," weed is basically legal there now, as well as in many other states.
Dude http://gawker.com/5162010/obama-pretty-much-legalizes-marijuana+ Show Spoiler + Supporters of programs to provide legal marijuana to patients with painful medical conditions are celebrating Attorney General Eric Holder’s statement this week that the Drug Enforcement Administration would end its raids on state-approved marijuana dispensaries.
Federal raids on medical marijuana distributors continued at least into the second week of Barack Obama’s presidency, when federal agents shut down at least two dispensaries in California on Feb. 3.
Holder was asked about those raids Wednesday in Santa Ana, Calif., at a news conference that was called to announce the arrests of 755 people in a nationwide crackdown on the U.S. operations of Mexican drug cartels. He said such operations would no longer be conducted.
“What the president said during the campaign ... will be consistent with what we will be doing here in law enforcement,” he said. “What (Obama) said during the campaign ... is now American policy.”
Obama indicated during the presidential campaign that he supported the controlled use of marijuana for medical purposes, saying he saw no difference between medical marijuana and other pain-control drugs.
“My attitude is if the science and the doctors suggest that the best palliative care and the way to relieve pain and suffering is medical marijuana, then that’s something I’m open to,” Obama said in November 2007 at a campaign stop in Audubon, Iowa. “There’s no difference between that and morphine when it comes to just giving people relief from pain.”
White House spokesman Nick Shapiro hinted at the policy shift shortly after the California raids, telling The Washington Times that the dispensaries were legal in California and that the Obama administration’s stance was that “federal resources should not be used to circumvent state laws.”
The new policy represents a significant turnabout for the federal government. During the Bush administration, DEA agents shut down 30 to 40 marijuana dispensaries, the agency said.
The Web site of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy had yet to catch up to the policy shift as of Friday afternoon, and was still prominently featuring a “ Medical Marijuana Reality Check” declaring that “marijuana is not considered modern medicine” and arguing that “no animal or human data support the safety or efficacy of smoked marijuana for general medical use.”
Holder’s comments received little notice Wednesday, overshadowed by the news of the drug arrests. But supporters of legalized marijuana seized on them as an important sign of progress in their campaign.
“Holder’s statement marks a dramatic shift in U.S. drug policy and is a major victory for the 72 million Americans who reside in states where the use of medical cannabis is legal,” said Paul Armentano, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said in a statement.
Thirteen states allow the cultivation, sale and use of medical marijuana.
Armentano said the shift would add momentum to campaigns in states that are considering their own medical marijuana laws. The New Jersey Senate approved such a bill Monday, and Gov. Jon Corzine said he would sign it if it cleared the state Assembly.
Charles Lynch, who operated a state-approved dispensary in Morro Bay, Calif., before it was raided in 2007, also welcomed the new policy.
“It’s a good thing for California. It’s a good thing for the other 12 states that have medical marijuana laws,” said Lynch, who was convicted in August of federal drug charges.
Lynch could face five years in prison when he is sentenced late next month, but in light of the new federal policy, he said he would appeal his conviction and seek a presidential pardon.
Lynch contended that dispensaries like his were vital for patients in the last stages of a painful illness.
“Having one in your community, wherever that may be, is a good thing because it helps these people that need relief,” he said. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29433708Not sure about gawker, but msnbc seems pretty legit. Anyways, for the tl;dr crowd, marijuana isn't officially legal, but Obama's administration is basically recognizing state laws that deem medical marijuana legal and are stopping raids and arrests for possession of marijuana (which were happening in spite of what the state laws said). Also since getting a prescription for medical marijuana is simply a matter of finding a doctor willing to give it to you (in most cases anyways), it seems safe to say that it's legal for all intents and purposes...in those 13 states anyways. I don't really care much for weed, but I'm actually kind of glad this law passed since I've never seen any problem with it when compared to say alcohol, tobacco, or other common over the counter medications. Hopefully I didn't read these articles inaccurately, but if I made some major error with this then I apologize for getting your hopes up.
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Marijuana has been one of the major border problems for Arizona, Texas, and California. These states are border neighbors to Mexico. California is the only state with approved Medical Marijuana Laws. Has anyone considered that people migrate to other states which may not have such laws? Suppose marijuana was legalized across the country. Do you think our people will readily accept low grade marijuana from across the border? We will grow our own. Go figure!
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On March 05 2009 01:46 GeneralStan wrote: I have to think that legalizing marijuana would probably contribute to our growing obesity problem. I mean it basically encourages laying about and eating alot, the two main reasons Americans are fat to begin with.
Whenever I smoke I don't lay down and eat tons of food.. I think that lack of discipline/lack of caring is the main contributing factor in obesity.
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In Calif., Medical Marijuana Laws Are Moving Pot Into Mainstream
With little notice and even less controversy, marijuana is now available as a medical treatment in California to almost anyone who tells a willing physician he would feel better if he smoked.
Pot is now retailed over the counter in hundreds of storefronts across Los Angeles and is credited with reviving a section of downtown Oakland, where an entrepreneur sells out classes offering "quality training for the cannabis industry." The tabloid LA Journal of Education for Medical Marijuana is fat with ads for Magic Purple, Strawberry Cough and other offerings in more than 400 "dispensaries" operating in the city. + Show Spoiler [Rest of Article] + In Calif., Medical Marijuana Laws Are Moving Pot Into Mainstream
LOS ANGELES -- With little notice and even less controversy, marijuana is now available as a medical treatment in California to almost anyone who tells a willing physician he would feel better if he smoked.
Pot is now retailed over the counter in hundreds of storefronts across Los Angeles and is credited with reviving a section of downtown Oakland, where an entrepreneur sells out classes offering "quality training for the cannabis industry." The tabloid LA Journal of Education for Medical Marijuana is fat with ads for Magic Purple, Strawberry Cough and other offerings in more than 400 "dispensaries" operating in the city.
Los Angeles officials say applications for retail outlets surged after Feb. 26, when U.S. Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. announced that the Drug Enforcement Administration will no longer raid such stores. Those pressing for change in drug laws regard the announcement as a watershed in a 40-year battle against marijuana's official listing as a dangerous drug -- a legal fight that, in California, is being waged on ground that has shifted dramatically toward acceptance.
All told, 13 states have legalized medical marijuana, a trend advocates credit in part to growing openness to alternative healing. As a "Schedule 1" drug under the 1970 federal narcotics act, marijuana officially has "no currently accepted medical use." But doctors have found it effective in reducing nausea, easing glaucoma and improving appetite and sleep in AIDS patients.
Marijuana use is widespread -- government surveys show that 100 million Americans have smoked pot or its resin, hashish, in their lifetimes, and 25 million have done so in the past year. Yet polls show that the public is still wary of legalization. As President Obama recently chuckled when asked about legalizing marijuana, "I don't think that's a good strategy to grow our economy."
But in California, pot is such a booming growth industry that lawmakers are being asked to consider its potential as a salve to the state's financial woes. Betty Yee, chair of the California State Board of Equalization, endorsed a bill in February to regulate the estimated $14 billion marijuana market, citing the state's budget problems. California currently collects $18 million in sales taxes from marijuana dispensaries, and Yee said a regulated pot trade would bring in $1.3 billion.
"I think the tide is starting to turn in terms of marijuana being part of the mainstream," she said. "The pieces seem to be falling into place."
In Los Angeles, Councilman Dennis Zine warned that half the city's sales outlets might be forced to close, but only to control the growth of what the city now regards as an accepted business. "We're not getting complaints about people smoking marijuana," said the retired motorcycle policeman. "We're seeing complaints about the proliferation of facilities. They opened up right down the street from my district office, in the same complex as a liquor store. Got the big green leaf in front."
The new reality can be disorienting. In Mendocino County, the heart of Northern California's "Emerald Triangle," marijuana farming has been openly tolerated since the arrival of counterculture refugees in the late 1960s. But elected officials say they are being forced to crack down on growers who offended neighbors with aggressive farming after medical marijuana laws hastened pot's shift from the black market to a gray zone.
"Prop. 215 opened up a new world for people who had been underground," said Scott Zeramby, referencing the 1996 ballot proposition that legalized pot for medical users. By 2007, Zeramby's garden supply business in Fort Bragg was doing $2.5 million in business amid a land rush by new growers eager to cash in.
"Things were getting a little crazy, even out of hand," Zeramby said. "What happened? A critical mass."
At the other end of the supply chain, some 200 dispensaries have opened using a legal loophole in an L.A. moratorium on such outlets, some making only the thinnest pretense of operating as "caregivers," the legal justification for providing cannabis directly.
"Medical marijuana, right here, right now," chants a barker on the Venice Beach Boardwalk, outside the doorway of the Medical Kush Beach Club. "Get legal, right now."
It really is that easy, the barker explains. Before being allowed to enter the upstairs dispensary and "smoking lounge," new customers are directed first to the physician's waiting room, presided over by two young women in low-cut tops. After proving state residence and minimum age (21), customers see a doctor in a white lab coat who for $150 produces a "physician's recommendation."
Valid for one year, it is all that California law requires to purchase and smoke eight ounces legally.
"I told him I had problems with my knee," said Joe Rizzo, 31, emerging from an examination recently with a knowing grin and a renewed card.
Outside the Blue Sky Coffee Shop in Oakland, Ritz Gayo clutched an eighth of Blue Dream ($44) and tried to remember the nature of his complaint.
"Um, my back," said Gayo, 20. He went on to recite a partial list of symptoms suggested in newspaper ads: "Chronic back pain and the rest, like everyone else," he said. "Non-sleeping. Can't eat very much.
"That, and I love pot."
Sean Manzanares, 41, a hardware store manager who had no previous experience with weed, parsed the advantages of sativa strains for night smoking and an indica for morning. "It got me off some really intense painkillers that were screwing with my liver and all kinds of stuff," he said.
Ben Core, 41, an HIV-positive commercial insurance agent, said, "The usage effects are overtaking the political and cultural effects that have suppressed it."
In the Venice branch of Farmacy, an upscale dispensary chain, clerks wear hemp lab coats and direct customers to an array of products, including herbal drops for teething pain. "We refer to it as a gateway herb," said JoAnna LaForce, a trained pharmacist.
Oakland allows anyone with a medical card to cultivate 72 plants -- 12 times the number the state legislature suggested in SB 420, which passed in 2003. (Even the title of the bill could be taken for a knowing wink, "420" being subculture code for enjoying marijuana). The bill generously interpreted the ballot initiative, which allowed pot to be dispensed for "any illness for which marijuana provides relief."
Entrepreneur Richard Lee said he took the hint, building an downtown Oakland empire that includes two "coffee shops," a glass-blowing school, a gift shop, a studio union and, last year, Oaksterdam University. Hundreds of graduates now have diplomas certifying passage of "credible examinations in politics, legal issues, horticulture, cooking and budtending."
The neighborhood is cheerfully busy, with foot traffic heaviest around the Blue Sky dispensary.
"They blend in quite well. It's not what you would expect," said Gertha Hays, who owns a boutique next door. "You might think it's going to be drug dealers, all this and that. It's not like that. And there's no particular stereotype of who's a cannabis smoker. It's all types."
Some customers walk over from the Alameda County Public Health Department. There, for $103 ($51.50 if on Medi-Cal), residents can upgrade from a simple physician's recommendation to an official medical marijuana identification card, widely regarded as stronger protection against prosecution.
"The one thing that's really caused it to go from medical to pretty much all-out legalization is the doctors," Lee said. "They have realized you can't over-prescribe it. They've really taken the lead. Alcohol -- frat boys drop dead by the hundred every year. You really can't kill yourself with marijuana."
You can, however, disappear into yourself. In South Central L.A., two dispensaries stand on the block between the mayor's constituent services office and the Blessed Day Drug and Alcohol Treatment Center.
"They're stunting their growth. I'm not talking about height," said Andrew Brown, 60, a drug treatment counselor. "They're in a Rip van Winkle state. They don't even know it. . . .
"Legal? Okay, but they still going to come to us. Alcohol is legal." I don't even smoke but I thought it was a good article so I thought I'd put it into this thread
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