On December 24 2008 20:34 Liquid`Drone wrote: there never exists a moment through a childs upbringing where hitting your child is necessary and where it is not possible to deal with the issues through talking (at least not unless the parent has fucked up prior to this, in which case the child might not respect him or her )
I still think my above post made a couple good points. For example, how does a child have the concept of respect? (btw, are you a parent? I'm not)
I am 16 but even I can remember when "beating" children for discipline was an ok thing to do... I also see that children are getting worse every year, Im not sure if its linked but physical disciplining children definetly doesnt bring any mental harm for them in the future.
On December 24 2008 20:34 Liquid`Drone wrote: there never exists a moment through a childs upbringing where hitting your child is necessary and where it is not possible to deal with the issues through talking (at least not unless the parent has fucked up prior to this, in which case the child might not respect him or her )
I still think my above post made a couple good points. For example, how does a child have the concept of respect? (btw, are you a parent? I'm not)
a child learns the concept of respect like it learns anything else. it also needs to be allowed to get the concept of respect wrong, like it is allowed to get everything else wrong - this is part of the learning process. if a child does not understand something, this is because it has not been explained it adequately - not because it is "bad", thus hitting the child because you did an inadequate job explaining something is just cruel and horrible.
and I mean like, if you're arguing that "but the child is too young to understand words" and "thus is needs to be told what it cannot do in other ways" then this is just downright retarded. you're expecting the child to understand that you are hitting him or her because you love him or her (a truly necessary part of physical punishment IF it should take place) but not to understand other concepts explained through words?
All mental processes develop through stimulation so that the innate ability grows and blooms to it's full potential and the a certain specific way.
You can see this clearly with langauge. There is a sensitive period where the organ needs to be stimulated. If not, it will never develop. Morality has a similar period.
Then you can be very skilled and refined and there are different languages. Same with morality.
If you want a hard-working child you need to influence how that child thinks how hard a person is supposed to work. If it has hardworking parents then it will view this as normal and adopt this lifestyle.
'Right' and 'wrong' has nothing to do with it. Neither has any reasoning. That all comes afterwards.
People here that support corporal punishment do so because that's what their parents did or that's what the norm in the society they grew up in was. The arguments they make are fabricated afterwards.
Hell, you can even see this in how they mix up the two, turning their reason for supporting it into a fallacy (I turned out right).
Same with all those silly comments about a child having to endure hardship and pain so not to be a pussy. Just have some primitive manhoodright instead and stop mixing it up with proper 21th century parenting and especially with morality. I understand that certain societies have differet virtues and certain macho cultures have different views on manhood. But why do we need to endure pain anyway? And what is the link with sex? It's so strange.
Go study some psychology before you chime in with your fucked up views.
Actually, I was just thinking about something the other day. Maybe it started from a quote I heard in some TV series or something a long time ago...
...but how come people don't need to do tests, have a licence etc. to raise kids? I mean, we do need a driver's licence to drive a card - which is significantly less harder. This thread alone shows how some people are simply not qualified to have kids. We should make them do some simple psychology tests before earning the right to have children - I'd bet that would decrease (not cease - I'm not that much of an optimist) child abuse ratios.
I guess it's too bad that would violate or freedom of rights or something like that, huh?
*hides from the shitstorm of CharlieMurphy-like people*
On December 24 2008 20:41 Klogon wrote: Talking doesn't solve everything. Otherwise we wouldn't have wars.
That statement is just amazing !
Everyone who learnt / read / studied psychology and has a insight knows: Beating children is never the best way to solve problems. And in most cases it doesnt solve problems, at all.
When a child is crying because it wants something and you give in it will forever be crying because it realized that it get's what it wants this way. So you have as soon as possible the duty to not give in if your child is using this '' Cry & thus get what it wants '' strategy. Im witnessing this so often with my girlfriends sister and her parents who are just not capable of properly educating that cute little human being.
I know this has nothing to do with beating your children but its also wrong..
It all depends on what you know about child education and psychology and stuff like that.
I can just say: Never beat your kid. And IF you feel u have to at least do it in a way that the child realizes that you dont want to harm it but just want to show how serious it is to you..
But getting regularly beaten by parents -/- getting a little , light slap on your ass once a year when you do something very bad..
And the first one is DEFINITELY WRONG,BAD AND NOT GOOD FOR YOUR CHILD WHAT SO EVER..
important edit: To all this videos and stuff where we see children behaving like shit. Thats exactly when its basicaly too late to really change something. THAT is exactly what happens when education went wrong and we see the outcome. So its as everyone with a little insight might now, VERY IMPORTANT to educate properly and correctly from 0-6 years because thats where most things are developed..
On December 24 2008 10:50 MoltkeWarding wrote: Beating your children is a bad control mechanism.
Either it will control them or it won't, but if it succeeds, your children will grow up spineless cowards and if it fails, your children will grow up seething with resentment.
a choke chain on a dog works because the dog gets hurt when it tries to not listen or run out of his bounds. Eventually the dog (depending on how smart) will learn to listen and obey commands associated with the pain. Then you can remove the choke chain and use a regular leash.
PS- I am not a spineless coward, nor do I resent my parents.
Here's a tiny little difference: You can't explain something verbally to a dog and expect it to work. You can with a human.
there never exists a moment through a childs upbringing where hitting your child is necessary and where it is not possible to deal with the issues through talking (at least not unless the parent has fucked up prior to this, in which case the child might not respect him or her )
hard to believe, but sometimes there's a language barrier between kids and parents. i have a lot of asian friends whose parents weren't born in America and speak hardly any English. It might not always be possible to talk things out with this obstacle. you cant blame the parents either.
that's when the stick comes in. probably why it still happens in asian families today.
On December 24 2008 10:50 MoltkeWarding wrote: Beating your children is a bad control mechanism.
Either it will control them or it won't, but if it succeeds, your children will grow up spineless cowards and if it fails, your children will grow up seething with resentment.
a choke chain on a dog works because the dog gets hurt when it tries to not listen or run out of his bounds. Eventually the dog (depending on how smart) will learn to listen and obey commands associated with the pain. Then you can remove the choke chain and use a regular leash.
PS- I am not a spineless coward, nor do I resent my parents.
Here's a tiny little difference: You can't explain something verbally to a dog and expect it to work. You can with a human.
I think he was joking. At least I hope he is.
On December 24 2008 12:57 CharlieMurphy wrote: When My 1 year old acts out I smother him with a pillow. Little shit, always crying for milk.
I'm amazed at how people won't change their obviously wrong opinions on spanking children, even when studies have been CITED (this does not happen often in discussions on the internet). It just shows how futile arguing on the internet can be. At least in a conversation you can establish a non-dominant way of 'investigating the issue together', so it's not a competition and minds can be swayed. On the internet, it always seems to be about winning. Child spankers: bow before science and admit your defeat.
He already was. Otherwise he wouldn't behave like that. He already learned might makes right. Hell, he's even hitting his mother already at that age.
You first want to learn the child might makes right and then when he starts to employ it you just want to break his win through torture so he won't?
I don't know wtf that argument is all about. But maybe the kid is actually right. Who knows. And then suddenly spanking is not ok anymore? If you support adults spanking children if the child is wrong then surely you would support children spanking adults if the adults are wrong, right?
On December 24 2008 21:06 Liquid`Drone wrote: and I mean like, if you're arguing that "but the child is too young to understand words" and "thus is needs to be told what it cannot do in other ways" then this is just downright retarded. you're expecting the child to understand that you are hitting him or her because you love him or her (a truly necessary part of physical punishment IF it should take place) but not to understand other concepts explained through words?
What? Hitting child sole purpose is to punish wrong doings. Downright retarded is thinking that there's something else behind it. With such logic, for parent just looking at child with angry expression is wrong. Fast, harmless but annoying spanking here is just to reinforce meaning of such expression.
EPT
