On December 26 2008 01:15 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Eri's post sums it up pretty well.
And I m surprised about the amount of shit that has been posted so far. Even by people i had high expectations from when it comes to discussing and cognitive abilities.
I d like to make a little overview and everyone here can decide with what he agrees so far:
(1) Beating or spanking your child regularly is bad and never the right thing to do (2) It is not entirely proven how much spanking/beating a child influences negative behaviour (3) Studies are not always perfectly true but they are more valid than your very own experience [ note: not for yourself but logically for a >general conclusion< ]
Who ever does not agree with those 3 statements please say so and explain why. Im interested to hear any logical approach to prove those wrong.
We shouldnt start argufing..
Thanks for summing the whole thread appropriately. I entirely agree with your 3 points. However, I think that subject could hardly be less controversial. Raising kids has been a huge concern for ages, and this debate has always been passionnate. I couldn't count the number of psychologists who are almost stars in France because they write books or make show on how to raise your kids "properly" (whatever that means). There are trends in psychology like everywhere else. These days, the most popular pedopsychologists seem to be leaning towards a "zero constrainst for the kid" behavior. I.e : don't force them to do them homework or eat spinach or tidy their room if they don't feel like it. Of course they are strongly against any kind of physical violence. I personnally think boundaries should be set. Just because you cannot live in a society without constrainsts. Some kids have obviously been raised this way and behave like assholes in public => FAILURE Then how to teach these boundaries? I think violence is NOT a good way, but I cannot blame the parents who occasionnally lose their temper (and by that I mean a light slapping, not a real beating which I think is wrong in every imaginable way and not justifiable) I think it is easy to criticize when you have never been a parent yourself. I hope I can raise my children without ever hitting them, but I don't say I will.
In my opinion, no punishment of kids should be done in order to satisfy the parents' need to communicate anger, whether it be yelling or spanking.
I don't think beating is ever right but I don't consider spanking a child or backhanding a teenage son who just did/said something REALLY bad/disrespectful is a "beating".
I plan on trying spanking on my young kids with this method:
1. They do something they KNOW is bad 2. You tell them to go to their room 3. You agree with your wife that spanking is best (if wife not home, you cool off, then decide) 4. You tell the kid what they did wrong, then spank with your hand on bare buttocks (use your hand so you know how hard you are hitting) 5. Hold the child while they cry until they are better. 6. Ask them to explain why they were spanked. 7. Tell them you love them and hope they don't do that bad thing again. 8. Be extra nice to them the next day.
There you go. My master plan. Hopefully it works. I also plan on using "timeouts". Depends on the kid and the offense.
On December 24 2008 10:23 shavingcream66 wrote: not to generalize or anything, but coming from an Asian household, I think its safe to say that almost all asian kids get physically disciplined. Negative reinforcement is preferred over positive reinforcement. Not being racist, just sharing my 2cents here
negative reinforcement- "if you don't get straight A's, then you get [a punishment]" positive reinforcement- "if you do get straight A's, then you get [a reward]
On a slight tangent... this is a common misunderstanding of what negative reinforcement is. Both positive and negative reinforcement increase the frequency of doing the acts. However, with negative reinforcement, the act is reinforced through removal of an aversive stimulus. For instance, many times I wake up a few minutes before my alarm is about to go off. Instead of letting the alarm go off, I'll shut off my alarm to avoid having to be bothered by its sound.
Positive and negative punishment both reduce the frequency of doing the acts. With positive, you add an aversive stimulus (such as beating kids), and with negative you remove a positive stimulus (such as grounding you, not allowing you to watch TV, etc).
On December 26 2008 17:16 Cambium wrote: There's nothing wrong with beating a kid. This shit is pretty normal by Chinese standards, and we all grew up fine... I think/hope
Something is wrong with you. You think there's nothing wrong with beating kids. That's something wrong and quite an anomaly. Maybe it was caused by you being beaten. Hey, copying your parents behavior and morality, that's exactly what one would expect if applying modern understanding of the development of personality. We know positive and negative reinforcement can't do anything beyond modifying genetic traits already present and is mostly harmful in trying to teach children.
On December 26 2008 17:16 Cambium wrote: There's nothing wrong with beating a kid. This shit is pretty normal by Chinese standards, and we all grew up fine... I think/hope
What are you kidding? They put people in prison there for speaking their mind.
No sorry, I'm just kidding; I don't think that has anything to do with spanking of children ;p.
there should always be a balance and it also varies with different kids. some kids "get it" and will do as they are told but some just need to be disciplined by actions. if the parent knows what he/she is doing then it is perfectly fine, but there is a fine line.
On December 26 2008 12:17 Savio wrote: In my opinion, no punishment of kids should be done in order to satisfy the parents' need to communicate anger, whether it be yelling or spanking.
I don't think beating is ever right but I don't consider spanking a child or backhanding a teenage son who just did/said something REALLY bad/disrespectful is a "beating".
I plan on trying spanking on my young kids with this method:
1. They do something they KNOW is bad 2. You tell them to go to their room 3. You agree with your wife that spanking is best (if wife not home, you cool off, then decide) 4. You tell the kid what they did wrong, then spank with your hand on bare buttocks (use your hand so you know how hard you are hitting) 5. Hold the child while they cry until they are better. 6. Ask them to explain why they were spanked. 7. Tell them you love them and hope they don't do that bad thing again. 8. Be extra nice to them the next day.
There you go. My master plan. Hopefully it works. I also plan on using "timeouts". Depends on the kid and the offense.
Yeah, it would be pretty stupid as a kid to get smacked and then wondering why the farg it happened. So I'm guessing physical discipline is your last resort?
On December 26 2008 20:16 BlackStar wrote: Something is wrong with you. You think there's nothing wrong with beating kids. That's something wrong and quite an anomaly. Maybe it was caused by you being beaten. Hey, copying your parents behavior and morality, that's exactly what one would expect if applying modern understanding of the development of personality. We know positive and negative reinforcement can't do anything beyond modifying genetic traits already present and is mostly harmful in trying to teach children.
Usually when you're making arguments in a thread you don't use the premise that you're already right as support for what you say.
On December 26 2008 12:17 Savio wrote: In my opinion, no punishment of kids should be done in order to satisfy the parents' need to communicate anger, whether it be yelling or spanking.
I don't think beating is ever right but I don't consider spanking a child or backhanding a teenage son who just did/said something REALLY bad/disrespectful is a "beating".
I plan on trying spanking on my young kids with this method:
1. They do something they KNOW is bad 2. You tell them to go to their room 3. You agree with your wife that spanking is best (if wife not home, you cool off, then decide) 4. You tell the kid what they did wrong, then spank with your hand on bare buttocks (use your hand so you know how hard you are hitting) 5. Hold the child while they cry until they are better. 6. Ask them to explain why they were spanked. 7. Tell them you love them and hope they don't do that bad thing again. 8. Be extra nice to them the next day.
There you go. My master plan. Hopefully it works. I also plan on using "timeouts". Depends on the kid and the offense.
Yeah, it would be pretty stupid as a kid to get smacked and then wondering why the farg it happened. So I'm guessing physical discipline is your last resort?
Yes, I would prefer to use "time-outs". But I would consider spanking if the child didn't think timeout was much of a punishment.
EPT
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