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Beating Kids? - Page 17

Forum Index > General Forum
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Uraeus
Profile Joined February 2008
France1378 Posts
December 25 2008 22:55 GMT
#321
On December 26 2008 01:15 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
Eri's post sums it up pretty well.

And I m surprised about the amount of shit that has been posted so far. Even by people i had high expectations from when it comes to discussing and cognitive abilities.

I d like to make a little overview and everyone here can decide with what he agrees so far:


(1) Beating or spanking your child regularly is bad and never the right thing to do
(2) It is not entirely proven how much spanking/beating a child influences negative behaviour
(3) Studies are not always perfectly true but they are more valid than your very own experience
[ note: not for yourself but logically for a >general conclusion< ]

Who ever does not agree with those 3 statements please say so and explain why. Im interested to hear any logical approach to prove those wrong.

We shouldnt start argufing..



Thanks for summing the whole thread appropriately.
I entirely agree with your 3 points.
However, I think that subject could hardly be less controversial. Raising kids has been a huge concern for ages, and this debate has always been passionnate. I couldn't count the number of psychologists who are almost stars in France because they write books or make show on how to raise your kids "properly" (whatever that means).
There are trends in psychology like everywhere else. These days, the most popular pedopsychologists seem to be leaning towards a "zero constrainst for the kid" behavior. I.e : don't force them to do them homework or eat spinach or tidy their room if they don't feel like it.
Of course they are strongly against any kind of physical violence.
I personnally think boundaries should be set. Just because you cannot live in a society without constrainsts. Some kids have obviously been raised this way and behave like assholes in public => FAILURE
Then how to teach these boundaries? I think violence is NOT a good way, but I cannot blame the parents who occasionnally lose their temper (and by that I mean a light slapping, not a real beating which I think is wrong in every imaginable way and not justifiable)
I think it is easy to criticize when you have never been a parent yourself. I hope I can raise my children without ever hitting them, but I don't say I will.
You are lucky I don't have a banhammer
Sprite
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1015 Posts
December 25 2008 23:05 GMT
#322
Getting hit with a belt gives you discipline it hurts .
Firebathero is still the best!
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
December 26 2008 03:17 GMT
#323
In my opinion, no punishment of kids should be done in order to satisfy the parents' need to communicate anger, whether it be yelling or spanking.

I don't think beating is ever right but I don't consider spanking a child or backhanding a teenage son who just did/said something REALLY bad/disrespectful is a "beating".

I plan on trying spanking on my young kids with this method:

1. They do something they KNOW is bad
2. You tell them to go to their room
3. You agree with your wife that spanking is best (if wife not home, you cool off, then decide)
4. You tell the kid what they did wrong, then spank with your hand on bare buttocks (use your hand so you know how hard you are hitting)
5. Hold the child while they cry until they are better.
6. Ask them to explain why they were spanked.
7. Tell them you love them and hope they don't do that bad thing again.
8. Be extra nice to them the next day.

There you go. My master plan. Hopefully it works. I also plan on using "timeouts". Depends on the kid and the offense.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
December 26 2008 08:12 GMT
#324
On December 24 2008 10:23 shavingcream66 wrote:
not to generalize or anything, but coming from an Asian household, I think its safe to say that almost all asian kids get physically disciplined. Negative reinforcement is preferred over positive reinforcement. Not being racist, just sharing my 2cents here

negative reinforcement- "if you don't get straight A's, then you get [a punishment]"
positive reinforcement- "if you do get straight A's, then you get [a reward]



On a slight tangent... this is a common misunderstanding of what negative reinforcement is. Both positive and negative reinforcement increase the frequency of doing the acts. However, with negative reinforcement, the act is reinforced through removal of an aversive stimulus. For instance, many times I wake up a few minutes before my alarm is about to go off. Instead of letting the alarm go off, I'll shut off my alarm to avoid having to be bothered by its sound.

Positive and negative punishment both reduce the frequency of doing the acts. With positive, you add an aversive stimulus (such as beating kids), and with negative you remove a positive stimulus (such as grounding you, not allowing you to watch TV, etc).
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
December 26 2008 08:16 GMT
#325
There's nothing wrong with beating a kid. This shit is pretty normal by Chinese standards, and we all grew up fine... I think/hope
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
BlackStar
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Netherlands3029 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-26 11:18:22
December 26 2008 11:16 GMT
#326
On December 26 2008 17:16 Cambium wrote:
There's nothing wrong with beating a kid. This shit is pretty normal by Chinese standards, and we all grew up fine... I think/hope


Something is wrong with you. You think there's nothing wrong with beating kids. That's something wrong and quite an anomaly. Maybe it was caused by you being beaten. Hey, copying your parents behavior and morality, that's exactly what one would expect if applying modern understanding of the development of personality. We know positive and negative reinforcement can't do anything beyond modifying genetic traits already present and is mostly harmful in trying to teach children.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
December 26 2008 11:17 GMT
#327
On December 26 2008 17:16 Cambium wrote:
There's nothing wrong with beating a kid. This shit is pretty normal by Chinese standards, and we all grew up fine... I think/hope


What are you kidding? They put people in prison there for speaking their mind.

No sorry, I'm just kidding; I don't think that has anything to do with spanking of children ;p.
Hello=)
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5094 Posts
December 26 2008 13:43 GMT
#328
there should always be a balance and it also varies with different kids. some kids "get it" and will do as they are told but some just need to be disciplined by actions. if the parent knows what he/she is doing then it is perfectly fine, but there is a fine line.
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
ilistis
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States828 Posts
December 26 2008 13:47 GMT
#329
On December 26 2008 12:17 Savio wrote:
In my opinion, no punishment of kids should be done in order to satisfy the parents' need to communicate anger, whether it be yelling or spanking.

I don't think beating is ever right but I don't consider spanking a child or backhanding a teenage son who just did/said something REALLY bad/disrespectful is a "beating".

I plan on trying spanking on my young kids with this method:

1. They do something they KNOW is bad
2. You tell them to go to their room
3. You agree with your wife that spanking is best (if wife not home, you cool off, then decide)
4. You tell the kid what they did wrong, then spank with your hand on bare buttocks (use your hand so you know how hard you are hitting)
5. Hold the child while they cry until they are better.
6. Ask them to explain why they were spanked.
7. Tell them you love them and hope they don't do that bad thing again.
8. Be extra nice to them the next day.

There you go. My master plan. Hopefully it works. I also plan on using "timeouts". Depends on the kid and the offense.


Yeah, it would be pretty stupid as a kid to get smacked and then wondering why the farg it happened. So I'm guessing physical discipline is your last resort?
"The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones."-William Faulkner *_*_*_Kolll FAN_*_*_*
b3h47pte
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1317 Posts
December 26 2008 14:35 GMT
#330

Beat your kid they need it.
Hittegods
Profile Joined April 2007
Stockholm4641 Posts
December 26 2008 15:07 GMT
#331
Posting that shitty stand-up once again was however not needed.
This neo violence, pure self defiance
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
December 26 2008 15:12 GMT
#332
i got beat.

i will beat.

this is the path to success
manner
MuR)Ernu
Profile Joined September 2008
Finland768 Posts
December 26 2008 21:15 GMT
#333
I think you can like spank their ass or give them one of those fingerthingies on their forehead.
It works, it's not even supposed to hurt that much.

Then after that you don't even have to like ever discipline them that way again, if they learnt the lesson.

Though physical discipline is supposed to be the last resort
KizZBG
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
u gotta skate8152 Posts
December 26 2008 21:18 GMT
#334
On December 24 2008 12:24 Resonance wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2008 10:32 CharlieMurphy wrote:
If you don't beat your kids, they will be faggots.


And CharlieMurphy, that is by far the dumbest and ignorant comment I have ever read on this site.

Read a book.

WHOOOOSH!
eSTRO for life | #2 Sea.Really fan! | #1 GosI[Flying] fan! | Clide - best SC2 terran!
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
December 26 2008 21:41 GMT
#335
physical discipline is ok!
BlackStar
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Netherlands3029 Posts
December 26 2008 21:45 GMT
#336
On December 27 2008 06:41 Navane wrote:
physical discipline is ok!


Except it's against the law.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
December 27 2008 00:25 GMT
#337
I just keep coming back to how retarded it is to advocate violence just because we're talking about children.

We don't do it to animals, other adults or old people who've grown senile.

It's just flat out retarded.
Hello=)
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10541 Posts
December 27 2008 00:37 GMT
#338
id treat my children as individuals capable of reason, understanding and thought, not as animals who only respond by physical pain.
Im back, in pog form!
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
December 27 2008 00:41 GMT
#339
On December 26 2008 20:16 BlackStar wrote:
Something is wrong with you. You think there's nothing wrong with beating kids. That's something wrong and quite an anomaly. Maybe it was caused by you being beaten. Hey, copying your parents behavior and morality, that's exactly what one would expect if applying modern understanding of the development of personality. We know positive and negative reinforcement can't do anything beyond modifying genetic traits already present and is mostly harmful in trying to teach children.

Usually when you're making arguments in a thread you don't use the premise that you're already right as support for what you say.
But why?
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
December 27 2008 01:56 GMT
#340
On December 26 2008 22:47 ilistis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2008 12:17 Savio wrote:
In my opinion, no punishment of kids should be done in order to satisfy the parents' need to communicate anger, whether it be yelling or spanking.

I don't think beating is ever right but I don't consider spanking a child or backhanding a teenage son who just did/said something REALLY bad/disrespectful is a "beating".

I plan on trying spanking on my young kids with this method:

1. They do something they KNOW is bad
2. You tell them to go to their room
3. You agree with your wife that spanking is best (if wife not home, you cool off, then decide)
4. You tell the kid what they did wrong, then spank with your hand on bare buttocks (use your hand so you know how hard you are hitting)
5. Hold the child while they cry until they are better.
6. Ask them to explain why they were spanked.
7. Tell them you love them and hope they don't do that bad thing again.
8. Be extra nice to them the next day.

There you go. My master plan. Hopefully it works. I also plan on using "timeouts". Depends on the kid and the offense.


Yeah, it would be pretty stupid as a kid to get smacked and then wondering why the farg it happened. So I'm guessing physical discipline is your last resort?


Yes, I would prefer to use "time-outs". But I would consider spanking if the child didn't think timeout was much of a punishment.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
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