|
On December 27 2008 12:32 Mannequin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2008 11:15 Mastermind wrote:On December 24 2008 11:11 Frits wrote:On December 24 2008 11:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:On December 24 2008 11:03 Frits wrote:On December 24 2008 10:58 CharlieMurphy wrote:
No, you smack them on the spot and tell that that no one wants to hear their whining. If they keep whining you threaten to take them to the car and spank them further. If that doesn't work then you beat them.
You can't always blame the parents for shitty kids. No you just need to ignore it, beating your kids out of frustration isn't gonna do anything but turn him into the same person. When you ignore your kid when he cries and whines he will become more independant by himself, while you're just acknowledging him by beating him. It's not that hard to ignore, you just need some restraint and patience, I think those qualities are a lot more worthwhile in society than violence. you can't very well walk around ignoring a whining child or a screaming little shit throwing a fit for a toy. You need to discipline him on the spot, no words will shut this child up. Situation demands physical discipline. Why the hell not? It's gonna run out of energy sometime. The situation does not demand physical discipline at all. People like you should be smacked for not smacking your kids. I dont want to hear the little shits whining in public. Please learn to respect others. Letting your kid whine for an hour in public until it is too tired to whine is so wrong. I hope you never have kid if you call a baby a little shit for crying.
a kid crying because he doesn't get his way in public is a little shit.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
Just because he's a child does not make it acceptable behavior.
|
i just have a problem with physical discipline being called beating
beating is abusing kids for no reason, call it a spanking or something, beating just sounds bad
|
kid needs to learn about hierarchy, whether it be in the family or society. if beating the shit out of him is what it takes to teach him that, then thats what you must do.
|
On December 28 2008 19:29 Creationism wrote:
if beating the shit out of him is what it takes to teach him that, then thats what you must do.
Of course principles of psychology say that isn't possible.
|
Unfortunately, all "science" done in the behavioural "sciences" and related disciplines tend to be very much more biased than in the natural sciences. And as soon as there's a paradigm shift, everything changes and all previous "truth" is turned upside down.
For that reason I think it's useless to throw up studies. I'm not saying that the people who do these studies are stupid; just that they are dealing with an incredibly hard subject.
I would instead suggest we make it a political/ideological battle. My core belief, then, would be that no human should ever be physically abused (beaten, spanked etc.) against his or her will.
There's no need for studies. It's just as simple as that.
Besides, the general pattern for the pro-beating people seem to be something like: "Well, at first you should try to talk to them; but when it doesn't work you have to smack them". That's just a poor argument. "Well, at first you should try to study, but if that doesn't work just cheat."
|
On December 28 2008 19:31 BlackStar wrote:
Of course principles of psychology say that isn't possible.
"That isn't possible" is a blanket statement that can be empirically demonstrated to be false with one piece of anecdotal evidence "this one time my parents beat me when I was small and I learned my place," anywhere, at any time. Are you willing to assert that no-one, nowhere, can honestly say such a thing?
On December 28 2008 19:56 ParasitJonte wrote:
"Well, at first you should try to study, but if that doesn't work just cheat."
The inherent badness of spanking is presupposed in making this analogy.
|
Anecdotal evidence is an oxymoron.
|
On December 24 2008 10:12 mahnini wrote:
shitstorm incoming
/thread
|
United States24701 Posts
On December 28 2008 18:11 Yogurt wrote:
i just have a problem with physical discipline being called beating
beating is abusing kids for no reason, call it a spanking or something, beating just sounds bad
Obviously this biggest problem with discussions on this topic are how we define things like 'beating' and I also get frustrated.
|
I'd be interested to hear what the white v asian breakdown is in this thread. I think its something to wonder how Asian culture might influence obedience and Western culture might influence disobedience.
|
How is obedience even anywhere related to this?
Only cultural issue is if you want to teach your child to solve problems through force/violence or not. I mean, if you are 'strong' it works and morality may very well be irrelevant. Especially if you consider cultures since morality is often part of that.
|
On December 24 2008 10:23 shavingcream66 wrote:
not to generalize or anything, but coming from an Asian household, I think its safe to say that almost all asian kids get physically disciplined. Negative reinforcement is preferred over positive reinforcement. Not being racist, just sharing my 2cents here
negative reinforcement- "if you don't get straight A's, then you get [a punishment]"
positive reinforcement- "if you do get straight A's, then you get [a reward]
I used to get beat with sticks and my friends got beat with metal pipes (not too hard, doesn't shatter bones)
edit: haha i remember how sometimes my cousin would come to school with bruises down her arms but we were told to say that we "fell down" if someone asked
This is incorrect.
Negative reinforcement is taking away something to make a behavior stick (this is also the hardest to give an example of), but it would be something like taking an internet spying device off your kids computer if he's doing well.
Positive reinforcement is adding something that will make a behavior stay, like giving candy, or porn.
Positive punishment is adding something that will cause a behavior to become extinct, like a spanking.
Negative punishment removes something, like the use of a computer or a car.
Positive and negative punishment/reinforcement work equally, however punishment doesn't teach someone how to act, so while they won't behave in the way that would get them punished, they may act in a different way that gets them punished. In general, punishing a child doesn't teach them how to act, it teaches them how not to act.
|
But even both positive and negatve reinforcement are harmful to what they are intended to do.
|
On December 28 2008 11:37 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2008 12:32 Mannequin wrote:On December 24 2008 11:15 Mastermind wrote:On December 24 2008 11:11 Frits wrote:On December 24 2008 11:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:On December 24 2008 11:03 Frits wrote:On December 24 2008 10:58 CharlieMurphy wrote:
No, you smack them on the spot and tell that that no one wants to hear their whining. If they keep whining you threaten to take them to the car and spank them further. If that doesn't work then you beat them.
You can't always blame the parents for shitty kids. No you just need to ignore it, beating your kids out of frustration isn't gonna do anything but turn him into the same person. When you ignore your kid when he cries and whines he will become more independant by himself, while you're just acknowledging him by beating him. It's not that hard to ignore, you just need some restraint and patience, I think those qualities are a lot more worthwhile in society than violence. you can't very well walk around ignoring a whining child or a screaming little shit throwing a fit for a toy. You need to discipline him on the spot, no words will shut this child up. Situation demands physical discipline. Why the hell not? It's gonna run out of energy sometime. The situation does not demand physical discipline at all. People like you should be smacked for not smacking your kids. I dont want to hear the little shits whining in public. Please learn to respect others. Letting your kid whine for an hour in public until it is too tired to whine is so wrong. I hope you never have kid if you call a baby a little shit for crying. a kid crying because he doesn't get his way in public is a little shit.
Sheesh CM, I always knew that you were not too bright seeing your post history, but you took it to a whole new level with this thread. I feel sorry for your future wife (if there'd be any).
|
I suggest instead of beating we use shock therapy, whenever a child misbehaves, instead of beating them cruelly, give them a mild shock, most likely with a tazer or a shock rod.
|
On December 28 2008 18:06 Klogon wrote:
Just because he's a child does not make it acceptable behavior.
This man speaks the truth
|
On December 29 2008 09:45 Naib wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2008 11:37 CharlieMurphy wrote:On December 27 2008 12:32 Mannequin wrote:On December 24 2008 11:15 Mastermind wrote:On December 24 2008 11:11 Frits wrote:On December 24 2008 11:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:On December 24 2008 11:03 Frits wrote:On December 24 2008 10:58 CharlieMurphy wrote:
No, you smack them on the spot and tell that that no one wants to hear their whining. If they keep whining you threaten to take them to the car and spank them further. If that doesn't work then you beat them.
You can't always blame the parents for shitty kids. No you just need to ignore it, beating your kids out of frustration isn't gonna do anything but turn him into the same person. When you ignore your kid when he cries and whines he will become more independant by himself, while you're just acknowledging him by beating him. It's not that hard to ignore, you just need some restraint and patience, I think those qualities are a lot more worthwhile in society than violence. you can't very well walk around ignoring a whining child or a screaming little shit throwing a fit for a toy. You need to discipline him on the spot, no words will shut this child up. Situation demands physical discipline. Why the hell not? It's gonna run out of energy sometime. The situation does not demand physical discipline at all. People like you should be smacked for not smacking your kids. I dont want to hear the little shits whining in public. Please learn to respect others. Letting your kid whine for an hour in public until it is too tired to whine is so wrong. I hope you never have kid if you call a baby a little shit for crying. a kid crying because he doesn't get his way in public is a little shit. Sheesh CM, I always knew that you were not too bright seeing your post history, but you took it to a whole new level with this thread. I feel sorry for your future wife (if there'd be any).
I like how everyone always uses the same insult whenever they disagree with me.
I feel sorry for your wuss mentality.
|
How many of you even have children? Theorizing about how to raise a child and actually doing it are very different.
|
United States24701 Posts
On December 29 2008 10:22 TeCh)PsylO wrote:
How many of you even have children? Theorizing about how to raise a child and actually doing it are very different.
This is so true. Most people who argue about this topic don't realize what being a parent is actually like and are just talking big.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
