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On November 11 2008 01:20 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2008 01:03 alffla wrote:
how do they dupe frmo nothing though? say a new ladder season and everyone's chars are empty o_O
maybe they bot like 8 player games rush to hell in classic then convert to LoD then do hellforges like crazy? haha then transmute up to high runes then dupe :S I guess they do hell forge and get like an ist or something and just dupe that. They probably only need one.
Exactly, they usually just find one mid-level rune and continually dupe it. 1 turns to 2, then 4, and so on. Eventually you have characters full of Ists and all you need to do is transmute them into a higher rune so they don't poof. You have "legit" runes.
Unique items is all about botting (since you really can't dupe them without poofing), back when I used to play a few months ago I used to bot 5 characters at once. Last ladder season I had 12 Hammerdins running the same bosses over and over again ~_~
Same goes with white and blue items.
I have no idea how they dupe the runes, it's an incredibly well kept secret from what I've been hearing. I've tried multiple methods and all came up short.
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On November 11 2008 00:36 Lemonwalrus wrote:
Do they deliver right away? It is possible they just know that they will get whatever items they need in a short amount of time so they just sell everything and get it later. That would explain how they sell even at the start of the season.
The big websites (Lewt and all of its sister sites [even though they don't say it, almost EVERY website is connected to Lewt]) deliver in a few minutes, they e-mail you with the account and password with characters that have all the items you ordered on it.
edit: Now thinking about it, my previous post (which came from d2jsp and other such websites) seems invalid. The items probably ARE botted. There is no explanation why high runes on ladder would be so incredibly expensive if the dupers already are duping hundreds of them at a time. (Honestly, it doesn't take long for 1 Ist to turn into 1000 provided this "dupe" method works)
If such dupers DID exist, the d2jsp prices for HRs would deflated a LONG time ago. When ladder started Bers and Jahs went for 3k, now look at these prices.
Vex = 30-40
Ohm = 30-40
Ber = 30-40
Jah = 30-40
Lo = 30-40
Cham = 30-40
Sur = 30-40
Zod = 30-40
Went down to 1% of its original value in ... five months? If there was no botting and/or duping, these prices would stay the same.
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I remember someone on this d2 site started collecting el runes only thinking he would transmute them to zod if he collected enough and than this other guy calculated the time it would take to transmute els to a zod and found it was like over 100+ years and that was just transmuting them. Poor guy disappeared after
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On November 11 2008 01:32 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I remember someone on this d2 site started collecting el runes only thinking he would transmute them to zod if he collected enough and than this other guy calculated the time it would take to transmute els to a zod and found it was like over 100+ years and that was just transmuting them. Poor guy disappeared after
ROFL
Yeah I actually thought about that and then I realized I needed like 10,000 El runes. 
I was quite sad that day when I figured it out.
Edit: Also, if anybody wants free shit on East ladder, just let me know; I have a couple of accounts filled with items that I will never use or sell.
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+ Show Spoiler +sorry people, don't listen to garmule2. he is wrong.
the sites are all different, of course. and the items aren't all botted.
firstly, duping still exists. i know this because ive had items poof, and that only happens when its a dupe. so its safe to assume some sites dupe. to make their uber runewords, they dupe runes, and keep rerolling the runeword until its high stats, or perfect.
the odds of botting high runes and certain perfect uniques are simply too low to be botted in the amounts required. there are limits to botting - cd keys, connections per IP address, and the fact that each character has to be levelled and equipped.
summary:
-- small shops would probably buy/trade duped items from other people, or perhaps run a few bots. basically a small extension of the normal d2 player.
-- large shops would have a reliable dupe method going, or else they can pay someone else to do it, and would dupe staple items, like runes, 40-15s, pcombs with life, etc.
-- no there's no "inside job" from blizzard. why would they bother? as a big corporation, the corporate image is very valuable. if news got out that a blizz employee was selling d2 items, it would suffer.
-- no there's not a single source. many people can dupe and do dupe. the flaw in the d2 servers is that they aren't equipped to deal with lag between servers. then they can get out of synch, resulting in the same character being in 2 different games. and of course, there would be a few bugs still left in the server code.
your use of maths on zod runes is pretty poor. the average player does NOT find a zod. and if you run 38 bots, 24/7, you will still be waiting DECADES to find 456 zods, or whatever the huge number was you came up with.
First point I'll make that concerns questions about scale: I run 38 bots. The scale of the D2 bot operation is far, far larger. Why do you think there is a market for CD keys? Individual players who were banned or lost their CD could simply go buy D2 in a store, right? Yet, people are selling thousands of CD keys. There's a reason for that. Additionally, the number of computers and IPs can be arbitrarily large because computers are mostly a fixed cost, and can be used for other things later. There's nothing to stop a successful item-selling business from renting some cheap warehouse space and stuffing it with stock computers that run D2 bots on a good business connection. D2 is not an intensive game to begin with, so minimize the client or remove the graphics with some modification and bots can run purely on memory and packets - lowering CPU useage dramatically. I did something like this for my own bots on my game, so I know it works.
My second point: I told you that they incorporated any hacks or exploits they could. Runes are duped then converted to higher Runes to make them legit, I'm sure - but limitless amounts of uniques with random stats can't be duped. I once bought ten unid gladiator's banes that each had random stats until I got a perfect one. Clear sign that bots are at work.
But I'm not here to convince anyone. I just like talking about it to get people's reactions because I'm doing something similar.
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Offtopic: D2 lod is like fucking crack when you first start with nothing because you want to get rich but eventually it starts getting boring when you have overpowered items /hdins
/grushing /chaos /uber leveling. I spent more time on this game than like anything. The most annoying thing is trying to xfer/rush your items/chars when none of your friends are on -_-;; Yeah i know theres d2loader and the switch user thing but still annoying. I had mad fun though
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D2 is such a shitty game if you think about it. To clear the game you need some godly gear or you're not going to clear hell mode. If people played legitly without botting or duping only about one player would be able to do jack shit in Hell per ladder season. Summoner and hammerdin would be the only viable builds...
So thank god for botters and dupes!
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On November 11 2008 01:57 garmule2 wrote:
D2 is not an intensive game to begin with, so minimize the client or remove the graphics with some modification and bots can run purely on memory and packets - lowering CPU useage dramatically. I did something like this for my own bots on my game, so I know it works.
Aren't there clientless bots where you just input tons of CD keys and account info and it'll run the bots without even opening D2? (Obviously you'd need the game)
Your point about the warehouses makes me wonder, does the income that you get from selling these items > cost of internet connection + computers + warehouse?
edit: I just checked my 97 Hammerdin, I am sad. He is decked out but I never use him.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 11 2008 00:37 garmule2 wrote:Is it ethical? I think so. If a game has players that want to buy items and money to skip boring parts, that means the game is poorly designed, as proven by the fact that it has boring parts.
Disregarding whether or not its ethical or not, I personally don't believe that a game is poorly designed just because it has boring parts. Look at real world sports that have been enjoyed for decades. A lot of people don't enjoy running, but that doesn't make football, baseball, or basketball bad games. Its not a game if you're trying to get "fun" out of every second. Its a drug.
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I hate this stuff. Its extremely unethical imho.
It shatters the economy of these games, which can be a very important part.
It ruins the game for a lot of people if you ask me.
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On November 11 2008 02:13 village_idiot wrote:
D2 is such a shitty game if you think about it. To clear the game you need some godly gear or you're not going to clear hell mode. If people played legitly without botting or duping only about one player would be able to do jack shit in Hell per ladder season. Summoner and hammerdin would be the only viable builds...
So thank god for botters and dupes!
Lots of people beat hell on single player untwinked with all sorts of characters. Its much easier beating the game with twinked/godly items but its definently not impossible. Its justs that all these idiots dont know how to really play d2 lod because they're spoonfed with godly items.
Duping and botting ruined the game imo.
And it really feels like blizzard is encouraging duping -_-.
Theres like a 1 in a billion chance for a jah to drop and blizzard makes runewords like lastwish with 3 jahs needed. The ability to imbue runes into higher one was a good idea because you can make legit hrs but it actually helped duping. I like spirit because its actually possible to find a high res 4 socket elite pala shield, insights pretty cool too. Treachery is awesome for prebuffing.
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On November 11 2008 02:36 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2008 02:13 village_idiot wrote:
D2 is such a shitty game if you think about it. To clear the game you need some godly gear or you're not going to clear hell mode. If people played legitly without botting or duping only about one player would be able to do jack shit in Hell per ladder season. Summoner and hammerdin would be the only viable builds...
So thank god for botters and dupes! Lots of people beat hell on single player untwinked with all sorts of characters. Its much easier beating the game with twinked/godly items but its definently not impossible. Its justs that all these idiots dont know how to really play d2 lod because they're spoonfed with godly items. Duping and botting ruined the game imo. And it really feels like blizzard is encouraging duping -_-. Theres like a 1 in a billion chance for a jah to drop and blizzard makes runewords like lastwish with 3 jahs needed. The ability to imbue runes into higher one was a good idea because you can make legit hrs but it actually helped duping. I like spirit because its actually possible to find a high res 4 socket elite pala shield, insights pretty cool too. Treachery is awesome for prebuffing.
Well, they're not encouraging botting, this is just their way of trying to get a challenge into D2: their original intent was not for exploiters to get tons of these items, it was for one person to get it and everybody would be like, "omfg that guy has a last wish"
And for Hell being "impossible" without twinked items, nah. I beat Single Player Hell with /setplayers 8 on a Bowazon (I admit it took forever but yeah, I eventually got it -_-)
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The odds of getting a Zod by transmuting all the runes you find are a lot better than just the odds of killing a monster dropping Zod.
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i was bored and rich and bought a bunch of the most ridiculous stuff in d2(like 2 or 3 years ago)
so I equip it all on like my lvl 90 wolf druid and go pvp
and get RAPED
hahaha
played for like 2 days and then gave all the crap away. I paid like $200 for it
anyways, i too wondered how they get this stuff. probably are just sold it by other players?
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i paid for items a while ago, i think garmule is right. if you do a google search on item buying sites, two different domains could have the same exact payment methods/prices/etc. that really they're just the same business.
also delivery is usually really, really quick, fwiw.
additionally not everything is duped because they still have items with variable statistics (such as low end variables, unid'ed items, of course they have perfect variables as well though). but none of my shit has poofed yet so who knows. the means of acquiring these items though definitely aren't legitimate so in a way these are "dirty" items but really who on ladder has a legit ebotd?
but yeah that's my experience from it. I figure I'd rather spend the 8 bucks or w/e to pay for something i would otherwise have to spend months either finding it or gathering shit to trade for it, seemed like a fair trade of time and money to me ez
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someone should confiscate garmule2's life ... this is far beyond some lowlife hacker in SC, you fuck with people on multiple levels, from the game devs to the people who try to enjoy it casually to the people who want to play competetively . you suck gameplay out the window, affecting every single player in the game, you're like a parasite, overwhelmingly self-righteous, at least low life hackers do it for fun and will eventually grow up and be apologetic once they realise how much misery they can cause. especially in an mmo where the whole spirit of the game is harmless fun and adventure
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On November 11 2008 01:57 garmule2 wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +sorry people, don't listen to garmule2. he is wrong.
the sites are all different, of course. and the items aren't all botted.
firstly, duping still exists. i know this because ive had items poof, and that only happens when its a dupe. so its safe to assume some sites dupe. to make their uber runewords, they dupe runes, and keep rerolling the runeword until its high stats, or perfect.
the odds of botting high runes and certain perfect uniques are simply too low to be botted in the amounts required. there are limits to botting - cd keys, connections per IP address, and the fact that each character has to be levelled and equipped.
summary:
-- small shops would probably buy/trade duped items from other people, or perhaps run a few bots. basically a small extension of the normal d2 player.
-- large shops would have a reliable dupe method going, or else they can pay someone else to do it, and would dupe staple items, like runes, 40-15s, pcombs with life, etc.
-- no there's no "inside job" from blizzard. why would they bother? as a big corporation, the corporate image is very valuable. if news got out that a blizz employee was selling d2 items, it would suffer.
-- no there's not a single source. many people can dupe and do dupe. the flaw in the d2 servers is that they aren't equipped to deal with lag between servers. then they can get out of synch, resulting in the same character being in 2 different games. and of course, there would be a few bugs still left in the server code.
your use of maths on zod runes is pretty poor. the average player does NOT find a zod. and if you run 38 bots, 24/7, you will still be waiting DECADES to find 456 zods, or whatever the huge number was you came up with. First point I'll make that concerns questions about scale: I run 38 bots. The scale of the D2 bot operation is far, far larger. Why do you think there is a market for CD keys? Individual players who were banned or lost their CD could simply go buy D2 in a store, right? Yet, people are selling thousands of CD keys. There's a reason for that. Additionally, the number of computers and IPs can be arbitrarily large because computers are mostly a fixed cost, and can be used for other things later. There's nothing to stop a successful item-selling business from renting some cheap warehouse space and stuffing it with stock computers that run D2 bots on a good business connection. D2 is not an intensive game to begin with, so minimize the client or remove the graphics with some modification and bots can run purely on memory and packets - lowering CPU useage dramatically. I did something like this for my own bots on my game, so I know it works. My second point: I told you that they incorporated any hacks or exploits they could. Runes are duped then converted to higher Runes to make them legit, I'm sure - but limitless amounts of uniques with random stats can't be duped. I once bought ten unid gladiator's banes that each had random stats until I got a perfect one. Clear sign that bots are at work. But I'm not here to convince anyone. I just like talking about it to get people's reactions because I'm doing something similar.
I read both your posts, they are very informative. A lot of WOW sites that guarantee level up in certain amount of days all belong to one or two companies, they have same website lay out, payment methods etc...
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On November 11 2008 03:24 tika wrote:
someone should confiscate garmule2's life ... this is far beyond some lowlife hacker in SC, you fuck with people on multiple levels, from the game devs to the people who try to enjoy it casually to the people who want to play competetively . you suck gameplay out the window, affecting every single player in the game, you're like a parasite, overwhelmingly self-righteous, at least low life hackers do it for fun and will eventually grow up and be apologetic once they realise how much misery they can cause. especially in an mmo where the whole spirit of the game is harmless fun and adventure
dude, it's diablo 2
it's not even a directly competitive game. there isn't even an end goal
not to say that justifies it but I hardly think it is that big of a deal
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From what I know, the duping and or desynching is like making 99 valkyries all attack at once, except instead of them not doing any damage, it desynchs the game with the server so then a second character can join who is already in the game. This is done by doing things that are very graphic or overall resource intensive I think, such as a javazon and bone necro making tons of bone walls and throwing low level poison javalins into them over and over, or I believe by casting tons of golems of all sorts, and then another bone wall trick with necro (don't remember it, maybe poison nova while constantly getting bone prison'd). The game will slow down, then suddenly everything on the screen will disapear except for the ground, and thats when the second person tries getting in, if it fails they will usually get dc'd for like 5 minutes so it takes a while. Thats how it was done like 2 years ago atleast, or attempted to be done  .
Another thing, you can dupe anything, including unid's. There was a huge string of Unid COA's that would come out perfect everytime you identified that were mass duped and you could never tell if it was legit or not without doing some lame "tests" that i don't think anyone was sure if they worked or not.
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Reminds me when D2: LOD came out and Windforce went for 10k on EBay.
Can you image?
Anyway, i just started playing again like last week and made it to hell mode pretty easy with summoner solo. I found a Sur rune doing a countess run off a champion wraith!
Amazing since i played so much D2 a long time ago and never found higher than Pul (not counting forge runes).
Anyway, i traded the sur to some rich guy who was desperate for one to make his last wish. I got Ber, 3 pul and crappy ntorch and some other stuff..
I put the ber in my stash... When i went to go find it to make my Enigma, it was gone. Gone... poof
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EPT
