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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On October 27 2008 03:35 fusionsdf wrote: the ironic part is this post smacks so hard of seventeenism.... We made our voices heard throut the media like never before, we are lifting the left, and the pacifists, and destroying division in the world thro boards and words, but i guess you and your limited mind wouldnt understand how someone can make a difference posting on the internet. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On October 27 2008 00:18 D10 wrote: Limiting peoples choice is always a step backwards The issue with abortion is that one person's actions affect another (the baby). You certainly wouldn't argue that removing the legal restrictions against murdering anyone is a step forward. The only real issue is if you see the unborn child as a human being or not. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On October 27 2008 02:04 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: In the politics of the western powers some seem to see abortion and gay marriage as "moral issues" subject to the most absolute of constraints (often claimed to come from God) while at the same time being happy to indulge in the most chilling, objectionable consequentialist calculations when it comes to killing dark people in far away lands. You could flip that around and say that people who view the Iraq war as morally wrong are happy to indulge in the chilling, objectionable consequetialist calculation when it comes to killing babies. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
I believe people should avoid undesired preagnancys so that abortions never happened, but I also believe, its the moms and no one elses problem to deal with it, unborn babies are a burden to the mother and it should be her choice, and not any ideology or philosophy, she should be free to decide if she has the will to carry it or not. The fact that the baby is a person is irrelevant, because I believe the mothers right to make a mistake is righter than the kids right to live. Just look at how many people end up living miserable lifes, that led to crimes and drugs and whoring because they were born in an enviroment that was completely horrible to them, but i guess you think they all had a chance, even if theyr fathers abandoned them, or hated them. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:25 D10 wrote: We made our voices heard throut the media like never before, we are lifting the left, and the pacifists, and destroying division in the world thro boards and words, but i guess you and your limited mind wouldnt understand how someone can make a difference posting on the internet. that wasnt addressed to you or what your defending if you dont understand what someone said, dont post useless insults | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:39 fusionsdf wrote: that wasnt addressed to you or what your defending if you dont understand what someone said, dont post useless insults Im a keyboard warrior. edit: maybe i shouldnt have quoted your post, sorry if that caused confusion, my post wasant adressed to you | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
There is a group of people in the US who think the war in Iraq is OK, but it is wrong to kill unborn babies. There is another one (most of you here) who argue that that isn't consistent. Yet most of these think the Iraq War is morally wrong, but that it is OK for a woman to kill her unborn baby. It could be argued that both sides are inconsistent, but the Catholic Church, actually opposes BOTH abortion and the Iraq War (correct me if I am wrong here). For all the bashing of the Catholic Church I have heard here, it seems like they are the only ones who have a consistent argument. I am not Catholic but I have a lot of respect for the Church and especially its leaders. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
Plus, people wont stop aborting, like people wont stop using drugs, in the end prohibition is just another segregationist policy for electrify the base. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
How can you ever trivialize genocide? ![[image loading]](http://www.nrlc.org/ABORTION/facts/abortionstats_files/image002.gif) Just food for thought. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:32 Savio wrote: The only real issue is if you see the unborn child as a human being or not. That is not true. Even if embryos and fetuses had personhood, it wouldn't matter. The womb is the woman's and the woman's alone and any occupant of the womb can only remain an occupant if she consents to that occupation. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On October 27 2008 03:40 boghat wrote: I'm going to ignore gay marriage for now because I agree that it's just absurd to argue about and also doesn't have much to do with this issue. The issue that people who don't support abortion but support wars is pretty complex and only seems hypocritical on the surface. To pro-life people all the fetuses/babies are innocent and you are killing millions of innocent lives every year in your own country. Wars they support on the other hand they see as necessary and ultimately good. I've heard from religious people many times making the argument that the commandment is "thou shall not murder", not "thou shall not kill". They see abortion as murder, they see war as killing enemies. I don't think any of these people like that innocent civilians die but that's a consquence of a war they think is just. I'm sure some of these people are so blinded that they think even the civilians are the enemy but this is not the majority. Furthermore, a lot of the most advocate proponents of war are those people that have family members fighting in the war, so there are plenty of people that are not completely emotionally removed. And unless you being emotionally involved in a far away war makes you help out the effort somehow, not sure what you would do, it's emotionally healthy and normal to disconnect from the war and live your day to day life. /increases respect for boghat for trying to see both sides | ||
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OGzan
United States289 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:25 D10 wrote: We made our voices heard throut the media like never before, we are lifting the left, and the pacifists, and destroying division in the world thro boards and words, but i guess you and your limited mind wouldnt understand how someone can make a difference posting on the internet. This sounds like sarcasm and i hope it is. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:38 D10 wrote: In my opinion, the mother should be entitled to make the mistake. Non matter my opinion about it, forcing the preagnancy upon her is a violation of the sovereignty and integrity of her body and mind. In other words rape is bad. I agree. Forcing pregnancy on someone is wrong and in that instance I support abortion as a choice. I also believe, its the moms and no one elses problem to deal with it, unborn babies are a burden to the mother and it should be her choice, and not any ideology or philosophy, she should be free to decide if she has the will to carry it or not. A born child is also a burden to the mother. If you are a parent you know just how much of a burden a born child is. So....is ending the baby's like ok in these instances too? (I'm not suggesting you think that, but I am presenting the question from another point of view) The fact that the baby is a person is irrelevant, because I believe the mothers right to make a mistake is righter than the kids right to live. wow. Just.....wow. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:51 Mindcrime wrote: That is not true. Even if embryos and fetuses had personhood, it wouldn't matter. The womb is the woman's and the woman's alone and any occupant of the womb can only remain an occupant if she consents to that occupation. So you can kill your own child as long as he lives under your roof? | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:55 Rygasm wrote: abortion should be a choice of the individual not the government, besides it keeps the population down anyways. We have too many people running around already Wrong. Population control should be done by letting sick people die not by murdering kids. We're keeping people in coma on life support for ages ffs. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:48 D10 wrote: Plus, people wont stop aborting, like people wont stop using drugs, in the end prohibition is just another segregationist policy for electrify the base. Just wanted to point out that people will never stop stealing, fighting, killing, or doing anything else bad. Opposing bad things is not necessarily a "segregationist policy to electrify the base". | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On October 27 2008 05:00 Sfydjklm wrote: So you can kill your own child as long as he lives under your roof? No, but you can evict said child. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
On October 27 2008 04:44 Savio wrote: I would like to point out 1 thing. There is a group of people in the US who think the war in Iraq is OK, but it is wrong to kill unborn babies. There is another one (most of you here) who argue that that isn't consistent. Yet most of these think the Iraq War is morally wrong, but that it is OK for a woman to kill her unborn baby. It could be argued that both sides are inconsistent, but the Catholic Church, actually opposes BOTH abortion and the Iraq War (correct me if I am wrong here). For all the bashing of the Catholic Church I have heard here, it seems like they are the only ones who have a consistent argument. I am not Catholic but I have a lot of respect for the Church and especially its leaders. That's probably why the Church was always supporting the wrong sides. Catholic Church has been supporting right side bourgeois order since ever. They supported all the XIX century kings and dictators. They supported Franco. They supported Mussolini. They supported the Versaillais against the Communard in 1870. They were against Dreifus in France in 1901. They supported all the dictatures in Central and South America: they supported Pinochet, Videla etc etc etc. Their campaign against condom is directly responsible of the death of countless Africans and South Americans theses last 20 years, places were they are very established and people often uneducated. They fought against the distribution of contraceptive pills to raped women in ex Yougoslavia during the civil war. etc etc etc etc etc etc Catholic Church sucks. Catholic Church is a structure of power, always supporting the strongest and the established order. What I notice is that in America, the one who fight so much against abortion (sorry, but a 6 weeks foeutus is smaller than half your little finger, so calling it "baby" is a bit exagerated) are also the one defending death penalty. Imo death penalty is an assassination. A criminal is a human being, whetevr he has done. "Killing" a 5 weeks foeutus is not. A 5 weeks foeutus can't be considered as a human being yet. Especially when the justice system is completely fucked up. So yeah, republican lack coherence. We knew that already. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
you can not evict an underage child | ||
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