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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
Except proving that it actually does nothing and that you might as well have a nice talk with someone? What do you mean it doesn't matter. The nice talking would not cure you, as you don't expect it to cure you. You actually have to believe in the applied methods in order to make a placebo work. | ||
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Aepplet
Sweden2908 Posts
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Specialist
United States803 Posts
Twice, I had random red spots and stuff all over body, she poked a needle into my hands arms and neck for 20 minutes and the next day I got better. Effective? Maybe. Coincidence? Maybe. I've also seen her for neck pains, and I can't really tell if it worked. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
I think acupuncture only works if you believe it will work. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
On February 09 2008 05:34 d1v wrote: I too have yet to discover how it works. But as a matter of fact, it relieved me of my illness and therefore I actually don't care so much, because it worked for me. And even if it is a placebo, it seems to be useful. The nice talking would not cure you, as you don't expect it to cure you. You actually have to believe in the applied methods in order to make a placebo work. The fact that you think you get cured might take away stress, like a nice talk would, or any case in which a person spends time on you. Like I said, there is no actual healing effect in this, you just feel a little better in general. What you imply is that there is some kind of magical healing effect because you believe in it, this is not the case. You make it sound like stuff as acupuncture is necessary to relieve people, while what we need to do is inform people properly so that instead of wasting their money they just take a nice relaxing bath or whatever instead. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
I hope none of you believe the yin/yang stuff behind acupuncture;( | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not at all trying to make acupuncture look like a magic remedy. In fact, I think that it's some sort of placebo, too. But a placebo is far more effective than a "nice talk", that's sure. If you believe, that the medicaments you've been given are helping you, you can be healed even though the medicaments don't do shit. A nice talk on the other hand is not commonly seen as a medicament against ailmenst, afaik. Therefore, it won't do the placebo-trick. | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
Also from what I heard about it, it relies on these meriedians - energy channels running through the body. They aren't physically there, you can't see them in a microscope, and the energy they are talking about is not energy in the usual sense of the word. So it's more based on thousands of years old Chineese myths than on science. But as long as it makes people feel better and doesn't harm anyone, I don't have much against the practice of it really. | ||
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BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
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Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
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Binky1842
United States2599 Posts
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On February 09 2008 05:26 Frits wrote: Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. From wikipedia ^, you guys are totally gullible. I don't see any reason to believe that it does anything but a placebo effect. Except proving that it actually does nothing and that you might as well have a nice talk with someone? What do you mean it doesn't matter. Western medicine is made from chemicals that have certain effects on your body while putting pins in your body does nothing but give you the illusion that you're being healed, resulting in less stress or something probably, which can take away stuff like nausea etc. These are not even diseases, acupuncture does not treat diseases, just minor complaints. And it doesn't "obviously work" as you like to put it, what a bunch of bullshit, it even says on the wiki page that it's a controversial subject. I've seen absolutely no scientific reasoning on the wiki page, just a bunch of made up stuff which is the same with homeopathy and spiritual healing. Ying and Yang? Give me a fucking break. I can't believe how people fall for this crap. The only reason this kind of stuff exists is because the majority of all people are dumb and gullible. Did you read any of the subjective experiences here? You do realize that there are connections all throughout the body. If you look up a factual nervous system chart it's plain to see. I mean, heck, haven't you sometimes felt pain somewhere else in your body when you push upon a completely separate part? I'm with you on the western/modern medicine, I'm so glad that medicine has advanced so far. But acupuncture really worked for me on numerous occasions and it wasn't some stupid shit reason like ' Oh these needles are in my body so now I'm better ' I actually didn't even look the first time I got acupuncture[covered foot with blanket] because I was really young and the acupuncturist suggested it. Imo, you went overboard. | ||
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FrEaK[S.sIR]
2373 Posts
On February 09 2008 05:26 Frits wrote: Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. From wikipedia ^, you guys are totally gullible. I don't see any reason to believe that it does anything but a placebo effect. Except proving that it actually does nothing and that you might as well have a nice talk with someone? What do you mean it doesn't matter. Western medicine is made from chemicals that have certain effects on your body while putting pins in your body does nothing but give you the illusion that you're being healed, resulting in less stress or something probably, which can take away stuff like nausea etc. These are not even diseases, acupuncture does not treat diseases, just minor complaints. And it doesn't "obviously work" as you like to put it, what a bunch of bullshit, it even says on the wiki page that it's a controversial subject. I've seen absolutely no scientific reasoning on the wiki page, just a bunch of made up stuff which is the same with homeopathy and spiritual healing. Ying and Yang? Give me a fucking break. I can't believe how people fall for this crap. The only reason this kind of stuff exists is because the majority of all people are dumb and gullible. The WHO accepts acupuncture as legitimate treatment of several ailments. But I guess the great Frits of Teamliquid.net knows more than the World Health Organization, right? You do realize how much of an arrogant cuntbag you sound like in so many topics, don't you? Does it please you to act like a twat when confronted with any topic that you don't agree with? So much so that you must make such definite, not to mention completely assinine and misinformed, statements. You do it a lot. Perhaps you should stop. It makes you terribly unpleasant to talk to on anything that we aren't already agreeing on. | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
Remember how they test for placebo effects? Double blind tests. Right. How are you going to do a double blind test with acupuncture? Acupuncture is in a unique class of ideas that are (currently) unfalsifiable, but must have some set, unchanging truth value. | ||
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