EPThttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acupuncture
So I'm curious....
Has anyone ever tried it? What do you think about it? Does it actually work?
Acupuncture
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QuanticHawk
United States32080 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acupuncture So I'm curious.... Has anyone ever tried it? What do you think about it? Does it actually work? | ||
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
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JensOfSweden
Cameroon1767 Posts
At least it seems VERY safe. "combined studies in the UK of 66,229 acupuncture treatments yielded only 134 minor adverse events. (British Medical Journal 2001 Sep 1). The total of 121,520 treatments with acupuncture therapy were given with no major adverse incidents" Minor adverse effects being: Minor bleeding after removal of the needles (Holding a cotton ball for about one minute over the site of puncture is usually sufficient to stop the bleeding.) Hematoma, which manifests as bruises. These usually go away after a few days. Dizziness, Some patients have a conscious or unconscious fear of needles which can produce dizziness and other symptoms of anxiety. Patients are usually treated lying down in order to reduce likelihood of fainting. I think people should give alternative medical treatment a chance | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On February 09 2008 03:16 d1v wrote: I've had medical treatment with acupuncture, because I had some sort of eating disorder (physically, not mentally) and it worked great. It's somewhat uncomfortable at first, but as soon as you'll get used to the needles, you'll fall asleep very likely. From the outside this could be interpreted as the equivalent of "as soon as you get used to the anal penetration, you'll fall asleep very easily." What I'm trying to say is, do the needles hurt or not lol. | ||
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JensOfSweden
Cameroon1767 Posts
On February 09 2008 03:18 fanatacist wrote: From the outside this could be interpreted as the equivalent of "as soon as you get used to the anal penetration, you'll fall asleep very easily." What I'm trying to say is, do the needles hurt or not lol. LOL unconscious desire to talk about homosexual acts? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32080 Posts
Im wondering if anyone has had any postive from it? Most of the reserarch I read said it seemed to work for back pain, somewhat for should pain, and everything else was kinda gray. I think jens found the same link as me. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On February 09 2008 03:26 JensOfSweden wrote: LOL unconscious desire to talk about homosexual acts? STFU T_T Don't hijack this thread by riding on my stoned attempts at humor. | ||
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JensOfSweden
Cameroon1767 Posts
It's commonly used for pain yeah Fana, I found the part about falling asleep to anal sex quite funny | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Bub
United States3518 Posts
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Asta
Germany3491 Posts
But studies proved that correct Acupuncture works fine, but not better than needles inserted at random points over your body or fake-needles which retract upon contact with your skin. It's all a matter of believing and positive thinking. Maybe this kinda ruined it for you, maybe it didn't. Actually I hope you will get over your problems without treatment. In so many cases your diseases are just in your head (google 'Nocebo'). Human senses often fail to see the truth when it doesn't appeal to you. This goes for your outer senses as well as your inner senses. In other words, if you want to feel sick, you will feel sick, and if feel sick, you will become sick. | ||
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unsoundlogic
United States391 Posts
From what I hear from some of her patients, it's pretty effective. They come back quite often. I've never had it done on me, because needles scare me -_-;;. She has this electic thingy that she attaches to the needles and gives some kind of light shock to her patients as well. I think it's pretty much a placebo effect, but I know my mom strongly believes in it. She also uses a few herbal medicines as well, so that might have some effect. She's had patients with back pain, arthritis, a broken ankle... some of her patients are those new age people that like work in communal gardens and grow a lot of their own herbs, so I guess the placebo effect is stronger for them. | ||
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defenestrate
United States579 Posts
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rpf
United States2705 Posts
On February 09 2008 03:52 Asta wrote: It's only a strong Placebo effect but that doesn't mean it's bad. Placebo effects can be as strong as morphia or similar drugs. It depends on the patient really. But studies proved that correct Acupuncture works fine, but not better than needles inserted at random points over your body or fake-needles which retract upon contact with your skin. It's all a matter of believing and positive thinking. And your source is what, exactly? I know what you're getting at, but if you're going to "debunk" a specific type of unconventional, or alternative medicinal practice, at least cite some reputable sources. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
When I played soccer a lot more actively in the past I would get some nasty ankle sprains. I went to the same acupuncturist every time and usually a day or two after the treatment it would be completely healed. She would use the needles that came in pre-packaged bags and then use a heat lamp over the needles for about 10-15 minutes. They weren't just ordinary needles though, they had coils on the top so I guess the heat made them vibrate a bit. Sad thing is, she was a certified doctor in China, but had yet to be certified after moving to America, so all patients that wanted to receive acupuncture had to sign a waiver etc. Other acupuncturists that I've visited don't work, because they didn't use the method that the first one I mentioned did. It releases stress in the area for a bit, but the pain comes back. As for pain, it doesn't really hurt...although it depends where you get it. Obviously treatment on your inner thigh or something would hurt more than your arm. But seriously, be a man it's like pricking yourself with the end of a safety pin. If I had to compare it to something, it hurts about half as bad as getting a vaccine shot, although it's more than just one prick. | ||
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
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JensOfSweden
Cameroon1767 Posts
On February 09 2008 03:52 Asta wrote: It's only a strong Placebo effect but that doesn't mean it's bad. Placebo effects can be as strong as morphia or similar drugs. It depends on the patient really. But studies proved that correct Acupuncture works fine, but not better than needles inserted at random points over your body or fake-needles which retract upon contact with your skin. It's all a matter of believing and positive thinking. Maybe this kinda ruined it for you, maybe it didn't. Actually I hope you will get over your problems without treatment. In so many cases your diseases are just in your head (google 'Nocebo'). Human senses often fail to see the truth when it doesn't appeal to you. This goes for your outer senses as well as your inner senses. In other words, if you want to feel sick, you will feel sick, and if feel sick, you will become sick. Whether it's placebo or not doesn't matter at all. Seriously it doesn't matter at all! Besides you honestly don't have an idea whether or not it is placebo or not, so don't try to say it is. It's whether it works that matters, and if it obviously works, how is it not as good or better than western medicine? I bet you jerk off to Richard Dawkins too Oh and when you say "studies proved", do link to those studies please! Your word doesn't matter, proof does....right? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32080 Posts
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
Health is a condition of balance of yin and yang within the body. Particularly important in acupuncture is the free flow of Qi From wikipedia ^, you guys are totally gullible. I don't see any reason to believe that it does anything but a placebo effect. Whether it's placebo or not doesn't matter at all. Seriously it doesn't matter at all! Except proving that it actually does nothing and that you might as well have a nice talk with someone? What do you mean it doesn't matter. It's whether it works that matters, and if it obviously works, how is it not as good or better than western medicine? Western medicine is made from chemicals that have certain effects on your body while putting pins in your body does nothing but give you the illusion that you're being healed, resulting in less stress or something probably, which can take away stuff like nausea etc. These are not even diseases, acupuncture does not treat diseases, just minor complaints. And it doesn't "obviously work" as you like to put it, what a bunch of bullshit, it even says on the wiki page that it's a controversial subject. I've seen absolutely no scientific reasoning on the wiki page, just a bunch of made up stuff which is the same with homeopathy and spiritual healing. Ying and Yang? Give me a fucking break. I can't believe how people fall for this crap. The only reason this kind of stuff exists is because the majority of all people are dumb and gullible. | ||
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
Except proving that it actually does nothing and that you might as well have a nice talk with someone? What do you mean it doesn't matter. The nice talking would not cure you, as you don't expect it to cure you. You actually have to believe in the applied methods in order to make a placebo work. | ||
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Aepplet
Sweden2908 Posts
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Specialist
United States803 Posts
Twice, I had random red spots and stuff all over body, she poked a needle into my hands arms and neck for 20 minutes and the next day I got better. Effective? Maybe. Coincidence? Maybe. I've also seen her for neck pains, and I can't really tell if it worked. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
I think acupuncture only works if you believe it will work. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
On February 09 2008 05:34 d1v wrote: I too have yet to discover how it works. But as a matter of fact, it relieved me of my illness and therefore I actually don't care so much, because it worked for me. And even if it is a placebo, it seems to be useful. The nice talking would not cure you, as you don't expect it to cure you. You actually have to believe in the applied methods in order to make a placebo work. The fact that you think you get cured might take away stress, like a nice talk would, or any case in which a person spends time on you. Like I said, there is no actual healing effect in this, you just feel a little better in general. What you imply is that there is some kind of magical healing effect because you believe in it, this is not the case. You make it sound like stuff as acupuncture is necessary to relieve people, while what we need to do is inform people properly so that instead of wasting their money they just take a nice relaxing bath or whatever instead. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
I hope none of you believe the yin/yang stuff behind acupuncture;( | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not at all trying to make acupuncture look like a magic remedy. In fact, I think that it's some sort of placebo, too. But a placebo is far more effective than a "nice talk", that's sure. If you believe, that the medicaments you've been given are helping you, you can be healed even though the medicaments don't do shit. A nice talk on the other hand is not commonly seen as a medicament against ailmenst, afaik. Therefore, it won't do the placebo-trick. | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
Also from what I heard about it, it relies on these meriedians - energy channels running through the body. They aren't physically there, you can't see them in a microscope, and the energy they are talking about is not energy in the usual sense of the word. So it's more based on thousands of years old Chineese myths than on science. But as long as it makes people feel better and doesn't harm anyone, I don't have much against the practice of it really. | ||
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BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
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Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
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Binky1842
United States2599 Posts
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On February 09 2008 05:26 Frits wrote: Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. From wikipedia ^, you guys are totally gullible. I don't see any reason to believe that it does anything but a placebo effect. Except proving that it actually does nothing and that you might as well have a nice talk with someone? What do you mean it doesn't matter. Western medicine is made from chemicals that have certain effects on your body while putting pins in your body does nothing but give you the illusion that you're being healed, resulting in less stress or something probably, which can take away stuff like nausea etc. These are not even diseases, acupuncture does not treat diseases, just minor complaints. And it doesn't "obviously work" as you like to put it, what a bunch of bullshit, it even says on the wiki page that it's a controversial subject. I've seen absolutely no scientific reasoning on the wiki page, just a bunch of made up stuff which is the same with homeopathy and spiritual healing. Ying and Yang? Give me a fucking break. I can't believe how people fall for this crap. The only reason this kind of stuff exists is because the majority of all people are dumb and gullible. Did you read any of the subjective experiences here? You do realize that there are connections all throughout the body. If you look up a factual nervous system chart it's plain to see. I mean, heck, haven't you sometimes felt pain somewhere else in your body when you push upon a completely separate part? I'm with you on the western/modern medicine, I'm so glad that medicine has advanced so far. But acupuncture really worked for me on numerous occasions and it wasn't some stupid shit reason like ' Oh these needles are in my body so now I'm better ' I actually didn't even look the first time I got acupuncture[covered foot with blanket] because I was really young and the acupuncturist suggested it. Imo, you went overboard. | ||
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FrEaK[S.sIR]
2373 Posts
On February 09 2008 05:26 Frits wrote: Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. From wikipedia ^, you guys are totally gullible. I don't see any reason to believe that it does anything but a placebo effect. Except proving that it actually does nothing and that you might as well have a nice talk with someone? What do you mean it doesn't matter. Western medicine is made from chemicals that have certain effects on your body while putting pins in your body does nothing but give you the illusion that you're being healed, resulting in less stress or something probably, which can take away stuff like nausea etc. These are not even diseases, acupuncture does not treat diseases, just minor complaints. And it doesn't "obviously work" as you like to put it, what a bunch of bullshit, it even says on the wiki page that it's a controversial subject. I've seen absolutely no scientific reasoning on the wiki page, just a bunch of made up stuff which is the same with homeopathy and spiritual healing. Ying and Yang? Give me a fucking break. I can't believe how people fall for this crap. The only reason this kind of stuff exists is because the majority of all people are dumb and gullible. The WHO accepts acupuncture as legitimate treatment of several ailments. But I guess the great Frits of Teamliquid.net knows more than the World Health Organization, right? You do realize how much of an arrogant cuntbag you sound like in so many topics, don't you? Does it please you to act like a twat when confronted with any topic that you don't agree with? So much so that you must make such definite, not to mention completely assinine and misinformed, statements. You do it a lot. Perhaps you should stop. It makes you terribly unpleasant to talk to on anything that we aren't already agreeing on. | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
Remember how they test for placebo effects? Double blind tests. Right. How are you going to do a double blind test with acupuncture? Acupuncture is in a unique class of ideas that are (currently) unfalsifiable, but must have some set, unchanging truth value. | ||
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