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On June 29 2026 05:03 Yurie wrote:
Seems like a non-issue. Ukraine did it because it deemed it worthwhile for internal morale/PR reasons. Poland did not like it due to historical reasons. Poland did a diplomatic rebuke towards Ukraine. Ukraine accepted it and things moves on as before.
It is a bit of an issue in a sense that it's part of a Russian psy-op to have Poland view Ukraine as an enemy. I believe someone is deliberately fanning the flames by railing up "patriots" on both sides. It's a rather sensitive topic and it's been causing a rift between our countries for quite a while.
Kinda hard to reconcile because an organization that is viewed as heroic and crucial for their freedom in Ukraine is also one responsible for mass murder on Polish citizens there (and we're talking like 100k civilians killed so it's not a small number).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
It's been a topic for diplomacy for decades now, but to broach it now with such blatant open hostility is suspicious at the least.
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There are people on both sides who want to fix the problems between the two countries but pushing for that doesn't get you easy votes. It would be unwise to play the blame game now and the only real option is to just move on. The logistical support from our side won't change but I think we can forget about new joint initiatives, maybe except of those that have already been agreed on but haven't been announced yet.
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As someone from a country weighted down by these ideological ancient grudges where one quarter of the public is completely subsumed by these nationalistic arguments I can deeply sympathize, even tho I honestly don't understand why would anyone living today give a flying fuck about what happened 70 years ago.
All these kind of topics are useful to bring out the worse out of people and make them look back instead of forward, I totally get why it's a big deal in Ukraine since war naturally pumps up nationalism, but why do Poles still find this something to blow up into a big deal despite Ukrainians and them having a much more important and pressing issues where Ukrainians are dying every day and by that making Poland a safer place.
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On June 30 2026 00:22 Jankisa wrote:
As someone from a country weighted down by these ideological ancient grudges where one quarter of the public is completely subsumed by these nationalistic arguments I can deeply sympathize, even tho I honestly don't understand why would anyone living today give a flying fuck about what happened 70 years ago.
All these kind of topics are useful to bring out the worse out of people and make them look back instead of forward, I totally get why it's a big deal in Ukraine since war naturally pumps up nationalism, but why do Poles still find this something to blow up into a big deal despite Ukrainians and them having a much more important and pressing issues where Ukrainians are dying every day and by that making Poland a safer place.
For Poland it's an unfortunate byproduct of our culture where martyrdom was romanticized for centuries. We also have kinda tragic history of our neighbors annexing parts of our territory and doing some horrible atrocities to the population. This stuff runs deep.
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On June 30 2026 00:22 Jankisa wrote:
why would anyone living today give a flying fuck about what happened 70 years ago. If I understood it correctly, Zelensky wanted to name a special forces unit after an organization that killed about 100k of Polish civilians, mostly women and children. Is this correct?
That organization also colloborated with Nazi Germany - not always but eventually - but maybe this is not as relevant here.
I can see why people in Poland are not happy about it.
Some of them might have had grandparents or even parents killed in that tragedic event.
I wonder if Zelensky could have chosen a better option that is still connected to freedom fighters but not the ones responsible for genocide / ethnic cleansing?
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Yes, it was an unforced error. But that doesn’t make all of this performative.
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On June 30 2026 22:28 ZeroByte13 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2026 00:22 Jankisa wrote:
why would anyone living today give a flying fuck about what happened 70 years ago. If I understood it correctly, Zelensky wanted to name a special forces unit after an organization that killed about 100k of Polish civilians, mostly women and children. Is this correct? That organization also colloborated with Nazi Germany - not always but eventually - but maybe this is not as relevant here. I can see why people in Poland are not happy about it. Some of them might have had grandparents or even parents killed in that tragedic event. I wonder if Zelensky could have chosen a better option that is still connected to freedom fighters but not the ones responsible for genocide / ethnic cleansing?
I can see both sides, but I would lean towards Ukraine because they, and Zelenskyy himself are in an impossible situation.
This unit choose a name for themselves, they seem to be very good at what they do and Zelenskyy knows that if he refuses to let them name themselves like this it could cause issues with other units with similar shitty views on their own history.
You don't get to, as a commander of the army decide to piss off units that are holding the line and putting their lives on the line every day just because some guys in suits in Poland will get angry.
Again, those units are saving lives of people who are alive today, and their morale and fighting ability is somewhat contingent on them having a name of a unit that killed people 70 years ago (which I agree is dumb, but so are most right wing nationalists), I will every time side with the modern living instead of the historical dead.
Why I lean towards Ukraine is because it seems like an obvious play by right wingers in Poland (and I'm sure this is being signal boosted by Russians as well) to worsen the relations between the countries, and if you have some shitty historical revisionism that can't really be justified other then saying "well, Ukraine really needs those guys even if they are pieces of shit" it's easy to get people riled up.
My stance would always be that this shit can be hashed out in peace time.
When my country was occupied even the biggest lefties were pretty much silent about units and insignias from our 1942 collaborationist regime being used because we were in a desperate situation and those were some of our best units, so I think it's easy for people who aren't being bombed on a daily basis to condemn them and create drama out of it because, again, they aren't getting Iskanders and Shaheds hitting their cities on daily basis.
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On June 30 2026 23:14 Billyboy wrote:
Yes, it was an unforced error. But that doesn’t make all of this performative.
I disagree. It absolutely was deliberate. They are well aware of how this issue is viewed in Poland.
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My take on the point. Poles should never tolerate praising group that was better in looting and killing civilians than actual fight. Volhyn massacres were a genocidal purge, and calling it anything else is spitting in face. Taking back some state decoration is justified, proportional and mostly symbolic. Nobody dies from it.
The more worrysome news is the tentions are starting to leak into arming the ukrainian armed force, like that annuled mig exchange. This one is dangerous developement, hitting ukrainian war effort, and I think we should not go that far. Ukrainians also could do some minor concessions if they are affraid of leaking technological know-how to their enemies. Either way, sending plans on scrapyard instead would be just foolish. This can bite both sides in long term, and is biting ukrainian side in short term. That should NOT make to happen.
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On July 01 2026 22:37 hitthat wrote:
My take on the point. Poles should never tolerate praising group that was better in looting and killing civilians than actual fight. Volhyn massacres were a genocidal purge, and calling it anything else is spitting in face. Taking back some state decoration is justified, proportional and mostly symbolic. Nobody dies from it.
The more worrysome news is the tentions are starting to leak into arming the ukrainian armed force, like that annuled mig exchange. This one is dangerous developement, hitting ukrainian war effort, and I think we should not go that far. Ukrainians also could do some minor concessions if they are affraid of leaking technological know-how to their enemies. This can bite both sides in long term, and is biting ukrainian side in short term. That should NOT make to happen.
I wonder how the hell diplomacy does not manage the "could you not?(call it that)"-call and sort it out. Seems like everybody win and things go on. Seems stupid to do that to your closest ally.
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On July 01 2026 22:40 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2026 22:37 hitthat wrote:
My take on the point. Poles should never tolerate praising group that was better in looting and killing civilians than actual fight. Volhyn massacres were a genocidal purge, and calling it anything else is spitting in face. Taking back some state decoration is justified, proportional and mostly symbolic. Nobody dies from it.
The more worrysome news is the tentions are starting to leak into arming the ukrainian armed force, like that annuled mig exchange. This one is dangerous developement, hitting ukrainian war effort, and I think we should not go that far. Ukrainians also could do some minor concessions if they are affraid of leaking technological know-how to their enemies. This can bite both sides in long term, and is biting ukrainian side in short term. That should NOT make to happen. I wonder how the hell diplomacy does not manage the "could you not?(call it that)"-call and sort it out. Seems like everybody win and things go on. Seems stupid to do that to your closest ally.
Poland tried diplomacy and gave Ukraine two weeks to change course.
You also need to keep in mind that this issue has been festering ever since Ukraine gained independence. For decades, Ukraine has been blocking exhumations of the victims.
Their historical narrative about the events was also highly biased. They would make it seem like a genocide was a justified response to the anti-Ukrainian repressions in the interwar period, completely ignoring the fact that the repressions were a response to the terrorism and sabotage campaign by the Ukrainian nationalists who tried to inflame the Polish-Ukrainian relationships. Those same Ukrainian nationalists also murdered several high profile politicians, both Polish and Ukrainian, who were working towards the emancipation of Ukrainians in interwar Poland. They did that because they considered Poles and Ukrainians living peacefully in one state as antithetical to their goal of creating a Ukrainian ethnostate.
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United States44398 Posts
Just put it in a box marked unresolved and open that box when the war is over.
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On July 02 2026 04:50 KwarK wrote:
Just put it in a box marked unresolved and open that box when the war is over.
Let's not act like Ukraine has no agency in this matter. They keep stirring shit.
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Japan PM always visits the yasukuni shrine, a lot of "deep regret" from Korea and other Asian countries but thats about it.
Ukraine needs its soldiers, what do we expect them to do? Recall and suspend them?
I understand the Poland stance, but until they join in the war effort with boots on ground, I think it's fair to say all these should all be just a "deep regret" statement.
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On July 02 2026 12:01 ETisME wrote:
Japan PM always visits the yasukuni shrine, a lot of "deep regret" from Korea and other Asian countries but thats about it.
Ukraine needs its soldiers, what do we expect them to do? Recall and suspend them?
I understand the Poland stance, but until they join in the war effort with boots on ground, I think it's fair to say all these should all be just a "deep regret" statement.
What Japan is doing is equally stupid.
So far the fallout is limited to diplomacy, but if Ukraine refuses to come clean, Poland is likely to veto their EU accession. There is speculation that corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs are inflaming the tensions precisely for that reason. Joining the EU would entail severely limiting their power, and by pushing Poland to veto Ukraine's accession, they would have a nice scapegoat.
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United States44398 Posts
If they put a bunch of Ukrainian ultranationalists on the front lines isn’t there a chance the problem just goes away?
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On July 02 2026 15:14 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2026 12:01 ETisME wrote:
Japan PM always visits the yasukuni shrine, a lot of "deep regret" from Korea and other Asian countries but thats about it.
Ukraine needs its soldiers, what do we expect them to do? Recall and suspend them?
I understand the Poland stance, but until they join in the war effort with boots on ground, I think it's fair to say all these should all be just a "deep regret" statement. What Japan is doing is equally stupid. So far the fallout is limited to diplomacy, but if Ukraine refuses to come clean, Poland is likely to veto their EU accession. There is speculation that corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs are inflaming the tensions precisely for that reason. Joining the EU would entail severely limiting their power, and by pushing Poland to veto Ukraine's accession, they would have a nice scapegoat.
As someone from Asia, I can tell you most of us think EU should be begging Ukraine to join it, not the other way around.
Frankly what more credentials do Ukraine need to prove it is worthy to join?
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United States44398 Posts
On July 02 2026 16:58 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2026 15:14 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2026 12:01 ETisME wrote:
Japan PM always visits the yasukuni shrine, a lot of "deep regret" from Korea and other Asian countries but thats about it.
Ukraine needs its soldiers, what do we expect them to do? Recall and suspend them?
I understand the Poland stance, but until they join in the war effort with boots on ground, I think it's fair to say all these should all be just a "deep regret" statement. What Japan is doing is equally stupid. So far the fallout is limited to diplomacy, but if Ukraine refuses to come clean, Poland is likely to veto their EU accession. There is speculation that corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs are inflaming the tensions precisely for that reason. Joining the EU would entail severely limiting their power, and by pushing Poland to veto Ukraine's accession, they would have a nice scapegoat. As someone from Asia, I can tell you most of us think EU should be begging Ukraine to join it, not the other way around. Frankly what more credentials do Ukraine need to prove it is worthy to join?
I mean there's all the actual EU requirements that they don't meet. This isn't pulling a sword from a stone. Did you not know that?
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On July 02 2026 17:12 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2026 16:58 ETisME wrote:On July 02 2026 15:14 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2026 12:01 ETisME wrote:
Japan PM always visits the yasukuni shrine, a lot of "deep regret" from Korea and other Asian countries but thats about it.
Ukraine needs its soldiers, what do we expect them to do? Recall and suspend them?
I understand the Poland stance, but until they join in the war effort with boots on ground, I think it's fair to say all these should all be just a "deep regret" statement. What Japan is doing is equally stupid. So far the fallout is limited to diplomacy, but if Ukraine refuses to come clean, Poland is likely to veto their EU accession. There is speculation that corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs are inflaming the tensions precisely for that reason. Joining the EU would entail severely limiting their power, and by pushing Poland to veto Ukraine's accession, they would have a nice scapegoat. As someone from Asia, I can tell you most of us think EU should be begging Ukraine to join it, not the other way around. Frankly what more credentials do Ukraine need to prove it is worthy to join? I mean there's all the actual EU requirements that they don't meet. This isn't pulling a sword from a stone. Did you not know that?
If this was under normal circumstances, sure.
What do you think EU-Ukraine Association Agreement is? Why do you think it exists?
the EU should be helping Ukraine to get in because it should want Ukraine to be in.
It's literally fighting Russia and has the best drone tech and military experience on the field.
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EPT
