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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 792

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12889 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-10 12:27:06
March 10 2025 12:26 GMT
#15821
On March 10 2025 21:06 0x64 wrote:
The only deal that would had worked, would have been that the USA get right on ressources of territory occupied by Russia.
But Putin and Trump being BFFs, we know the plan is to take half for Russia, Half for USA.

We are back to "freeing Iraq"

What would the US offer in an exchange for the territory?
Tbh I don't even think the US has that much bargaining power to offer on the table, except for lifting sanctions.
Even the EU might have more to offer, given they got that frozen Russia assets.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22646 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-10 12:44:02
March 10 2025 12:43 GMT
#15822
On March 10 2025 21:26 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2025 21:06 0x64 wrote:
The only deal that would had worked, would have been that the USA get right on ressources of territory occupied by Russia.
But Putin and Trump being BFFs, we know the plan is to take half for Russia, Half for USA.

We are back to "freeing Iraq"

What would the US offer in an exchange for the territory?
more support for Ukraine.

The idea would be the US helps Ukraine actually win the war and push Russia out. Then the US gets part of the resources from those area's they helped liberate and it puts US interests directly in front of Russia to further incentivise the US to protect Ukraine in the future.

You don't negotiate with Russia because you can't. Russia wants to control and oppress everyone around them and their word is with absolute shit.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Nezgar
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany535 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-10 13:04:44
March 10 2025 13:03 GMT
#15823
On March 10 2025 20:37 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2025 18:03 sertas wrote:
On March 10 2025 11:13 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 10:01 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 09:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 05:03 Yurie wrote:
On March 10 2025 03:40 KwarK wrote:
On March 09 2025 13:00 ETisME wrote:
On March 08 2025 16:11 pmp10 wrote:
It seems Ukrainian troops in Kursk might be in trouble.
Predictably Russia is pushing hard to make gains before any negotiations.

I wonder if they timed it just now to make use of US intelligence sharing freeze.
Assuming it even mattered.

I think both Russia and Ukraine knew this year will be when negotiation starts and ends, even before Trump got into power.
Russia did their huge recruitment effort last year, and Ukraine wanted the Kursk to be a bargaining chip.

If you only followed mainstream media, you would have thought Kursk showed Ukraine still got some fierce in them.
When they failed to encirclement/ capture the strategically important spots like the powerplants, this was a failure more than anything else.

They made it worse by choosing to stand ground instead of retreating, this became a meatgrinder on both sides.
Ukraine is throwing new recruits with 50-70% survival rate, reported by some of the Ukrainians commanders.
The reason why they wanted to stand ground is hoping for a territory swap, which Russia already rejected, hardly a surprise since Russia had been recapturing it consistently.

-
Ukraine might just land one of the worst position possible on the negotiation table.
It started too late, and it has been losing for too long, and is still losing.

The worst outcome is if the negotiation drags on long enough to the point where Ukraine's army breaks spirit.
Ukraine is not getting enough recruits and some of their armies had been fighting since the invasion began, and no rotation means their spirit are going to collapse sooner or later.

Deserters number have reached over 100,000 and this is just the public figure.


With all the investments and loans send to Ukraine, it's really time to go all in or just cut loss.
France is at least being pro-active (in fact it was the only nation to propose sending troops to aid Ukraine a couple months back).
All the big fancy number aids being announced by other nations, unless they can deliver immediately and solve manpower issue, to me it's all PR stunts.

Their negotiating positions are irreconcilable. No negotiations any time soon.


Russia not accepting peace keeping forces or Ukraine joining defensive alliances is the most critical point. The rest I think they could hammer out in a negotiation.

Russia requires that Ukraine surrender national sovereignty because they don’t believe that Ukraine can be allowed sovereignty. Ukraine believes that it has sovereignty and, like any free people, will never give it up willingly. There is no room for compromise, it’s not like they can be sovereign every other day.

The official demands are:
1. no NATO membership for Ukraine;
2. Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
3. Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
4. the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

i don't think both sides are seeing this as end all be all for Ukraine. Or else we wouldn't have a peace talk that almost went through in 2022.

So in your world Russia wants Ukraine disarmed and restrained because it doesn’t want to assault it? Kinda like how Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia to cede their defensive lines in the Sudetenland because of how much he wasn’t planning to invade.

These are literally Russia's demands for the peace deal.
I have only added a remark that BOTH sides don't see it as end all be all, which is how you see it.
Especially the "no room to comprises", which is just silly when they were already thinking about exchanging territory and Ukraine would have to pick which land to exchange and which land they would have to forego


Russia would never accept the current lines to be frozen, they want a lot more to even consider peace, this is already an unacceptable position to start negotiating from

Ukraine asked for return for Crimea as well, that's never going to happen.
There's more effort to escalate than negotiation last year, and now the deal has to be made in the worst position.
The only bargaining chip Ukraine has left is the Russian's frozen assets. (that is still pending legal matters)


I know that you are a bit stuck in a disinformation bubble, but the biggest bargaining chip is that Ukraine can hold out for longer than Russia can keep up their invasion, barring the USA officially taking sides and supporting Russia itself.

Russia cannot accept any kind of peacekeepers in or security guaranteed for Ukraine because any peace deal or ceasefire is just a break for them to gather and replenish their forces, and then go again later. If a peace deal means that they cannot go again later, it is not a viable peace deal for them.
Russia will continue their invasion(s) against anyone who isn't part of a defensive alliance or has other security measures in place, or until it physically cannot do so anymore.

This is why sending additional diplomats does nothing and why sending more ammunition and other hardware is the fastest way to peace. Russia understands no other language. The only reason why Russia is even "entertaining" the thought of peace talks is to look more reasonable in the eyes of the Western world, hoping that this will erode the support for Ukraine.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7421 Posts
March 10 2025 13:31 GMT
#15824
On March 10 2025 21:43 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2025 21:26 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 21:06 0x64 wrote:
The only deal that would had worked, would have been that the USA get right on ressources of territory occupied by Russia.
But Putin and Trump being BFFs, we know the plan is to take half for Russia, Half for USA.

We are back to "freeing Iraq"

What would the US offer in an exchange for the territory?
more support for Ukraine.

The idea would be the US helps Ukraine actually win the war and push Russia out. Then the US gets part of the resources from those area's they helped liberate and it puts US interests directly in front of Russia to further incentivise the US to protect Ukraine in the future.

You don't negotiate with Russia because you can't. Russia wants to control and oppress everyone around them and their word is with absolute shit.


I guess it would be more like US gets allowed access to minerals in russia occupied territory right now and act as a buffer. If the minerals deal is coupled with a win condition first then US will never go for it.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12889 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-10 13:57:56
March 10 2025 13:53 GMT
#15825
On March 10 2025 22:03 Nezgar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2025 20:37 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 18:03 sertas wrote:
On March 10 2025 11:13 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 10:01 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 09:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 05:03 Yurie wrote:
On March 10 2025 03:40 KwarK wrote:
On March 09 2025 13:00 ETisME wrote:
[quote]
I think both Russia and Ukraine knew this year will be when negotiation starts and ends, even before Trump got into power.
Russia did their huge recruitment effort last year, and Ukraine wanted the Kursk to be a bargaining chip.

If you only followed mainstream media, you would have thought Kursk showed Ukraine still got some fierce in them.
When they failed to encirclement/ capture the strategically important spots like the powerplants, this was a failure more than anything else.

They made it worse by choosing to stand ground instead of retreating, this became a meatgrinder on both sides.
Ukraine is throwing new recruits with 50-70% survival rate, reported by some of the Ukrainians commanders.
The reason why they wanted to stand ground is hoping for a territory swap, which Russia already rejected, hardly a surprise since Russia had been recapturing it consistently.

-
Ukraine might just land one of the worst position possible on the negotiation table.
It started too late, and it has been losing for too long, and is still losing.

The worst outcome is if the negotiation drags on long enough to the point where Ukraine's army breaks spirit.
Ukraine is not getting enough recruits and some of their armies had been fighting since the invasion began, and no rotation means their spirit are going to collapse sooner or later.

Deserters number have reached over 100,000 and this is just the public figure.


With all the investments and loans send to Ukraine, it's really time to go all in or just cut loss.
France is at least being pro-active (in fact it was the only nation to propose sending troops to aid Ukraine a couple months back).
All the big fancy number aids being announced by other nations, unless they can deliver immediately and solve manpower issue, to me it's all PR stunts.

Their negotiating positions are irreconcilable. No negotiations any time soon.


Russia not accepting peace keeping forces or Ukraine joining defensive alliances is the most critical point. The rest I think they could hammer out in a negotiation.

Russia requires that Ukraine surrender national sovereignty because they don’t believe that Ukraine can be allowed sovereignty. Ukraine believes that it has sovereignty and, like any free people, will never give it up willingly. There is no room for compromise, it’s not like they can be sovereign every other day.

The official demands are:
1. no NATO membership for Ukraine;
2. Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
3. Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
4. the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

i don't think both sides are seeing this as end all be all for Ukraine. Or else we wouldn't have a peace talk that almost went through in 2022.

So in your world Russia wants Ukraine disarmed and restrained because it doesn’t want to assault it? Kinda like how Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia to cede their defensive lines in the Sudetenland because of how much he wasn’t planning to invade.

These are literally Russia's demands for the peace deal.
I have only added a remark that BOTH sides don't see it as end all be all, which is how you see it.
Especially the "no room to comprises", which is just silly when they were already thinking about exchanging territory and Ukraine would have to pick which land to exchange and which land they would have to forego


Russia would never accept the current lines to be frozen, they want a lot more to even consider peace, this is already an unacceptable position to start negotiating from

Ukraine asked for return for Crimea as well, that's never going to happen.
There's more effort to escalate than negotiation last year, and now the deal has to be made in the worst position.
The only bargaining chip Ukraine has left is the Russian's frozen assets. (that is still pending legal matters)


I know that you are a bit stuck in a disinformation bubble, but the biggest bargaining chip is that Ukraine can hold out for longer than Russia can keep up their invasion, barring the USA officially taking sides and supporting Russia itself.

Russia cannot accept any kind of peacekeepers in or security guaranteed for Ukraine because any peace deal or ceasefire is just a break for them to gather and replenish their forces, and then go again later. If a peace deal means that they cannot go again later, it is not a viable peace deal for them.
Russia will continue their invasion(s) against anyone who isn't part of a defensive alliance or has other security measures in place, or until it physically cannot do so anymore.

This is why sending additional diplomats does nothing and why sending more ammunition and other hardware is the fastest way to peace. Russia understands no other language. The only reason why Russia is even "entertaining" the thought of peace talks is to look more reasonable in the eyes of the Western world, hoping that this will erode the support for Ukraine.

Disinformation bubble?
I have given plenty of sources to back up my claims. be it morality rate, mass desertion, recruitment issues, the poll numbers. None of these are hidden secrets and have been reported even on mainstream media.

Even Ukraine is in negotiation for peace now, so is this all pointless to you then?
If you think all thee diplomatic solution don't matter at all, then you are essentially saying the entire Russia to be taken down.

There's no way you think this is being seriously considered?

Even if Russia slows down for whatever reason, there's no way Ukraine can ever recapture seized lands, Russia has total defender advantages in those area by now.

Well unless the EU or a few European nations deploy troops, and with more foreign volunteers like yourself join the war effort.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
March 10 2025 15:10 GMT
#15826
On March 10 2025 20:54 KT_Elwood wrote:
Russia can't be trusted and (like the US) won't tolerate any ruling body that isn't ruling in their interest.

The only fear that politicans have, is that their donors might have money in russia which then gets seized and they get cut off (as many companies of the west still are doing business in russia).

Seize the assets, buy Grippen.


The same Grippen that has an American engine?
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17850 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-10 15:32:09
March 10 2025 15:30 GMT
#15827
On March 10 2025 22:53 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2025 22:03 Nezgar wrote:
On March 10 2025 20:37 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 18:03 sertas wrote:
On March 10 2025 11:13 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 10:01 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 09:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 05:03 Yurie wrote:
On March 10 2025 03:40 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Their negotiating positions are irreconcilable. No negotiations any time soon.


Russia not accepting peace keeping forces or Ukraine joining defensive alliances is the most critical point. The rest I think they could hammer out in a negotiation.

Russia requires that Ukraine surrender national sovereignty because they don’t believe that Ukraine can be allowed sovereignty. Ukraine believes that it has sovereignty and, like any free people, will never give it up willingly. There is no room for compromise, it’s not like they can be sovereign every other day.

The official demands are:
1. no NATO membership for Ukraine;
2. Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
3. Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
4. the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

i don't think both sides are seeing this as end all be all for Ukraine. Or else we wouldn't have a peace talk that almost went through in 2022.

So in your world Russia wants Ukraine disarmed and restrained because it doesn’t want to assault it? Kinda like how Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia to cede their defensive lines in the Sudetenland because of how much he wasn’t planning to invade.

These are literally Russia's demands for the peace deal.
I have only added a remark that BOTH sides don't see it as end all be all, which is how you see it.
Especially the "no room to comprises", which is just silly when they were already thinking about exchanging territory and Ukraine would have to pick which land to exchange and which land they would have to forego


Russia would never accept the current lines to be frozen, they want a lot more to even consider peace, this is already an unacceptable position to start negotiating from

Ukraine asked for return for Crimea as well, that's never going to happen.
There's more effort to escalate than negotiation last year, and now the deal has to be made in the worst position.
The only bargaining chip Ukraine has left is the Russian's frozen assets. (that is still pending legal matters)


I know that you are a bit stuck in a disinformation bubble, but the biggest bargaining chip is that Ukraine can hold out for longer than Russia can keep up their invasion, barring the USA officially taking sides and supporting Russia itself.

Russia cannot accept any kind of peacekeepers in or security guaranteed for Ukraine because any peace deal or ceasefire is just a break for them to gather and replenish their forces, and then go again later. If a peace deal means that they cannot go again later, it is not a viable peace deal for them.
Russia will continue their invasion(s) against anyone who isn't part of a defensive alliance or has other security measures in place, or until it physically cannot do so anymore.

This is why sending additional diplomats does nothing and why sending more ammunition and other hardware is the fastest way to peace. Russia understands no other language. The only reason why Russia is even "entertaining" the thought of peace talks is to look more reasonable in the eyes of the Western world, hoping that this will erode the support for Ukraine.

Disinformation bubble?
I have given plenty of sources to back up my claims. be it morality rate, mass desertion, recruitment issues, the poll numbers. None of these are hidden secrets and have been reported even on mainstream media.

Even Ukraine is in negotiation for peace now, so is this all pointless to you then?
If you think all thee diplomatic solution don't matter at all, then you are essentially saying the entire Russia to be taken down.

There's no way you think this is being seriously considered?

Even if Russia slows down for whatever reason, there's no way Ukraine can ever recapture seized lands, Russia has total defender advantages in those area by now.

Well unless the EU or a few European nations deploy troops, and with more foreign volunteers like yourself join the war effort.


There really can't be any peace deals IMO because neither side is going to compromise on their goals.

UKR wants:
  • Full sovereignty
  • Return to pre-2014 borders
  • Guarantees that Russia will not invade ever again


RU wants:
  • Ukraine to not exist as a country any more pretty much
  • If above can't be achieved it wants to make sure Ukraine is never able to field an army and defend itself again (so they can take it easier in the future)


Those goals are not really compatible.

The biggest problem for Russia is that they're running out of assets and at the rate they're going now they'll be able to capture Ukraine in about 100 years or so (and I don't think they have enough steam in the tank to go beyond 2025). The biggest problem for Ukraine is that they're willing to withstand this as long as is necessary but this hinges on Western support.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4647 Posts
March 10 2025 15:49 GMT
#15828
[image loading]


I know we know how this works, but I like when an idea is well illustrated.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium5231 Posts
March 10 2025 16:55 GMT
#15829
The construction of the misinformation post itself and the amplification process are also very interesting to understand.
Taxes are for Terrans
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12889 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-10 21:24:53
March 10 2025 21:21 GMT
#15830
On March 11 2025 00:30 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2025 22:53 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 22:03 Nezgar wrote:
On March 10 2025 20:37 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 18:03 sertas wrote:
On March 10 2025 11:13 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 10:01 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 09:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 05:03 Yurie wrote:
[quote]

Russia not accepting peace keeping forces or Ukraine joining defensive alliances is the most critical point. The rest I think they could hammer out in a negotiation.

Russia requires that Ukraine surrender national sovereignty because they don’t believe that Ukraine can be allowed sovereignty. Ukraine believes that it has sovereignty and, like any free people, will never give it up willingly. There is no room for compromise, it’s not like they can be sovereign every other day.

The official demands are:
1. no NATO membership for Ukraine;
2. Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
3. Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
4. the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

i don't think both sides are seeing this as end all be all for Ukraine. Or else we wouldn't have a peace talk that almost went through in 2022.

So in your world Russia wants Ukraine disarmed and restrained because it doesn’t want to assault it? Kinda like how Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia to cede their defensive lines in the Sudetenland because of how much he wasn’t planning to invade.

These are literally Russia's demands for the peace deal.
I have only added a remark that BOTH sides don't see it as end all be all, which is how you see it.
Especially the "no room to comprises", which is just silly when they were already thinking about exchanging territory and Ukraine would have to pick which land to exchange and which land they would have to forego


Russia would never accept the current lines to be frozen, they want a lot more to even consider peace, this is already an unacceptable position to start negotiating from

Ukraine asked for return for Crimea as well, that's never going to happen.
There's more effort to escalate than negotiation last year, and now the deal has to be made in the worst position.
The only bargaining chip Ukraine has left is the Russian's frozen assets. (that is still pending legal matters)


I know that you are a bit stuck in a disinformation bubble, but the biggest bargaining chip is that Ukraine can hold out for longer than Russia can keep up their invasion, barring the USA officially taking sides and supporting Russia itself.

Russia cannot accept any kind of peacekeepers in or security guaranteed for Ukraine because any peace deal or ceasefire is just a break for them to gather and replenish their forces, and then go again later. If a peace deal means that they cannot go again later, it is not a viable peace deal for them.
Russia will continue their invasion(s) against anyone who isn't part of a defensive alliance or has other security measures in place, or until it physically cannot do so anymore.

This is why sending additional diplomats does nothing and why sending more ammunition and other hardware is the fastest way to peace. Russia understands no other language. The only reason why Russia is even "entertaining" the thought of peace talks is to look more reasonable in the eyes of the Western world, hoping that this will erode the support for Ukraine.

Disinformation bubble?
I have given plenty of sources to back up my claims. be it morality rate, mass desertion, recruitment issues, the poll numbers. None of these are hidden secrets and have been reported even on mainstream media.

Even Ukraine is in negotiation for peace now, so is this all pointless to you then?
If you think all thee diplomatic solution don't matter at all, then you are essentially saying the entire Russia to be taken down.

There's no way you think this is being seriously considered?

Even if Russia slows down for whatever reason, there's no way Ukraine can ever recapture seized lands, Russia has total defender advantages in those area by now.

Well unless the EU or a few European nations deploy troops, and with more foreign volunteers like yourself join the war effort.


There really can't be any peace deals IMO because neither side is going to compromise on their goals.

UKR wants:
  • Full sovereignty
  • Return to pre-2014 borders
  • Guarantees that Russia will not invade ever again


RU wants:
  • Ukraine to not exist as a country any more pretty much
  • If above can't be achieved it wants to make sure Ukraine is never able to field an army and defend itself again (so they can take it easier in the future)


Those goals are not really compatible.

The biggest problem for Russia is that they're running out of assets and at the rate they're going now they'll be able to capture Ukraine in about 100 years or so (and I don't think they have enough steam in the tank to go beyond 2025). The biggest problem for Ukraine is that they're willing to withstand this as long as is necessary but this hinges on Western support.

It isn't, but that's why negotiation is for.
When you raised the stake higher and committed to it, the losing side will always be the one taking the biggest losses.

War is always slow until it isn't.
Russia is still on the offensive, hence the heavier losses.
As soon as they fortify seized territory, the losses will flip around and then we will see how attrition war plays out.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 10 2025 22:47 GMT
#15831
On March 11 2025 06:21 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2025 00:30 Manit0u wrote:
On March 10 2025 22:53 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 22:03 Nezgar wrote:
On March 10 2025 20:37 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 18:03 sertas wrote:
On March 10 2025 11:13 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 10:01 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 09:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 07:30 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Russia requires that Ukraine surrender national sovereignty because they don’t believe that Ukraine can be allowed sovereignty. Ukraine believes that it has sovereignty and, like any free people, will never give it up willingly. There is no room for compromise, it’s not like they can be sovereign every other day.

The official demands are:
1. no NATO membership for Ukraine;
2. Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
3. Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
4. the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

i don't think both sides are seeing this as end all be all for Ukraine. Or else we wouldn't have a peace talk that almost went through in 2022.

So in your world Russia wants Ukraine disarmed and restrained because it doesn’t want to assault it? Kinda like how Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia to cede their defensive lines in the Sudetenland because of how much he wasn’t planning to invade.

These are literally Russia's demands for the peace deal.
I have only added a remark that BOTH sides don't see it as end all be all, which is how you see it.
Especially the "no room to comprises", which is just silly when they were already thinking about exchanging territory and Ukraine would have to pick which land to exchange and which land they would have to forego


Russia would never accept the current lines to be frozen, they want a lot more to even consider peace, this is already an unacceptable position to start negotiating from

Ukraine asked for return for Crimea as well, that's never going to happen.
There's more effort to escalate than negotiation last year, and now the deal has to be made in the worst position.
The only bargaining chip Ukraine has left is the Russian's frozen assets. (that is still pending legal matters)


I know that you are a bit stuck in a disinformation bubble, but the biggest bargaining chip is that Ukraine can hold out for longer than Russia can keep up their invasion, barring the USA officially taking sides and supporting Russia itself.

Russia cannot accept any kind of peacekeepers in or security guaranteed for Ukraine because any peace deal or ceasefire is just a break for them to gather and replenish their forces, and then go again later. If a peace deal means that they cannot go again later, it is not a viable peace deal for them.
Russia will continue their invasion(s) against anyone who isn't part of a defensive alliance or has other security measures in place, or until it physically cannot do so anymore.

This is why sending additional diplomats does nothing and why sending more ammunition and other hardware is the fastest way to peace. Russia understands no other language. The only reason why Russia is even "entertaining" the thought of peace talks is to look more reasonable in the eyes of the Western world, hoping that this will erode the support for Ukraine.

Disinformation bubble?
I have given plenty of sources to back up my claims. be it morality rate, mass desertion, recruitment issues, the poll numbers. None of these are hidden secrets and have been reported even on mainstream media.

Even Ukraine is in negotiation for peace now, so is this all pointless to you then?
If you think all thee diplomatic solution don't matter at all, then you are essentially saying the entire Russia to be taken down.

There's no way you think this is being seriously considered?

Even if Russia slows down for whatever reason, there's no way Ukraine can ever recapture seized lands, Russia has total defender advantages in those area by now.

Well unless the EU or a few European nations deploy troops, and with more foreign volunteers like yourself join the war effort.


There really can't be any peace deals IMO because neither side is going to compromise on their goals.

UKR wants:
  • Full sovereignty
  • Return to pre-2014 borders
  • Guarantees that Russia will not invade ever again


RU wants:
  • Ukraine to not exist as a country any more pretty much
  • If above can't be achieved it wants to make sure Ukraine is never able to field an army and defend itself again (so they can take it easier in the future)


Those goals are not really compatible.

The biggest problem for Russia is that they're running out of assets and at the rate they're going now they'll be able to capture Ukraine in about 100 years or so (and I don't think they have enough steam in the tank to go beyond 2025). The biggest problem for Ukraine is that they're willing to withstand this as long as is necessary but this hinges on Western support.

It isn't, but that's why negotiation is for.
When you raised the stake higher and committed to it, the losing side will always be the one taking the biggest losses.

War is always slow until it isn't.
Russia is still on the offensive, hence the heavier losses.
As soon as they fortify seized territory, the losses will flip around and then we will see how attrition war plays out.

We're about a year past Russia digging in.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2892 Posts
March 11 2025 05:52 GMT
#15832
On March 11 2025 06:21 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2025 00:30 Manit0u wrote:
On March 10 2025 22:53 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 22:03 Nezgar wrote:
On March 10 2025 20:37 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 18:03 sertas wrote:
On March 10 2025 11:13 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 10:01 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 09:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 07:30 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Russia requires that Ukraine surrender national sovereignty because they don’t believe that Ukraine can be allowed sovereignty. Ukraine believes that it has sovereignty and, like any free people, will never give it up willingly. There is no room for compromise, it’s not like they can be sovereign every other day.

The official demands are:
1. no NATO membership for Ukraine;
2. Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
3. Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
4. the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

i don't think both sides are seeing this as end all be all for Ukraine. Or else we wouldn't have a peace talk that almost went through in 2022.

So in your world Russia wants Ukraine disarmed and restrained because it doesn’t want to assault it? Kinda like how Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia to cede their defensive lines in the Sudetenland because of how much he wasn’t planning to invade.

These are literally Russia's demands for the peace deal.
I have only added a remark that BOTH sides don't see it as end all be all, which is how you see it.
Especially the "no room to comprises", which is just silly when they were already thinking about exchanging territory and Ukraine would have to pick which land to exchange and which land they would have to forego


Russia would never accept the current lines to be frozen, they want a lot more to even consider peace, this is already an unacceptable position to start negotiating from

Ukraine asked for return for Crimea as well, that's never going to happen.
There's more effort to escalate than negotiation last year, and now the deal has to be made in the worst position.
The only bargaining chip Ukraine has left is the Russian's frozen assets. (that is still pending legal matters)


I know that you are a bit stuck in a disinformation bubble, but the biggest bargaining chip is that Ukraine can hold out for longer than Russia can keep up their invasion, barring the USA officially taking sides and supporting Russia itself.

Russia cannot accept any kind of peacekeepers in or security guaranteed for Ukraine because any peace deal or ceasefire is just a break for them to gather and replenish their forces, and then go again later. If a peace deal means that they cannot go again later, it is not a viable peace deal for them.
Russia will continue their invasion(s) against anyone who isn't part of a defensive alliance or has other security measures in place, or until it physically cannot do so anymore.

This is why sending additional diplomats does nothing and why sending more ammunition and other hardware is the fastest way to peace. Russia understands no other language. The only reason why Russia is even "entertaining" the thought of peace talks is to look more reasonable in the eyes of the Western world, hoping that this will erode the support for Ukraine.

Disinformation bubble?
I have given plenty of sources to back up my claims. be it morality rate, mass desertion, recruitment issues, the poll numbers. None of these are hidden secrets and have been reported even on mainstream media.

Even Ukraine is in negotiation for peace now, so is this all pointless to you then?
If you think all thee diplomatic solution don't matter at all, then you are essentially saying the entire Russia to be taken down.

There's no way you think this is being seriously considered?

Even if Russia slows down for whatever reason, there's no way Ukraine can ever recapture seized lands, Russia has total defender advantages in those area by now.

Well unless the EU or a few European nations deploy troops, and with more foreign volunteers like yourself join the war effort.


There really can't be any peace deals IMO because neither side is going to compromise on their goals.

UKR wants:
  • Full sovereignty
  • Return to pre-2014 borders
  • Guarantees that Russia will not invade ever again


RU wants:
  • Ukraine to not exist as a country any more pretty much
  • If above can't be achieved it wants to make sure Ukraine is never able to field an army and defend itself again (so they can take it easier in the future)


Those goals are not really compatible.

The biggest problem for Russia is that they're running out of assets and at the rate they're going now they'll be able to capture Ukraine in about 100 years or so (and I don't think they have enough steam in the tank to go beyond 2025). The biggest problem for Ukraine is that they're willing to withstand this as long as is necessary but this hinges on Western support.

It isn't, but that's why negotiation is for.
When you raised the stake higher and committed to it, the losing side will always be the one taking the biggest losses.

War is always slow until it isn't.
Russia is still on the offensive, hence the heavier losses.
As soon as they fortify seized territory, the losses will flip around and then we will see how attrition war plays out.


There are two big problems for Russias offensive.

1) their forces are too weak and tired for a breakthrough. They don't have enough tanks and IFVs and the average age or their soldiers is very high (50-60). They have trouble exploiting breakthroughs because of this unless all there is a complete collapse.
2) Russia is forcing a war off attrition by destroying the weak Ukrainian manpower. Ukraine is trying to tank the Russian economy.
If you are not under attack you can hold a trench with 1 person. If the attacks stop Ukrainian manpower needs and losses both drop. Sure, Russian losses also get much better but logistics and backline targets will still be hit on both sides. But more importantly the war and its drain on the economy does not stop.
Simply put, if not under assault Ukraine can just wait Russia out with EU money alone (as long as Trump doesn't drop sanctions).
Unity, support, family, and kneecapping bitches.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7421 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-11 08:20:50
March 11 2025 08:19 GMT
#15833
On March 10 2025 22:53 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2025 22:03 Nezgar wrote:
On March 10 2025 20:37 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 18:03 sertas wrote:
On March 10 2025 11:13 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 10:01 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 09:03 ETisME wrote:
On March 10 2025 07:30 KwarK wrote:
On March 10 2025 05:03 Yurie wrote:
On March 10 2025 03:40 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Their negotiating positions are irreconcilable. No negotiations any time soon.


Russia not accepting peace keeping forces or Ukraine joining defensive alliances is the most critical point. The rest I think they could hammer out in a negotiation.

Russia requires that Ukraine surrender national sovereignty because they don’t believe that Ukraine can be allowed sovereignty. Ukraine believes that it has sovereignty and, like any free people, will never give it up willingly. There is no room for compromise, it’s not like they can be sovereign every other day.

The official demands are:
1. no NATO membership for Ukraine;
2. Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian provinces (even though Russia does not physically control all the territory of three of them);
3. Ukraine’s demilitarization and denazification (code for the installation of a pro-Russia puppet in Kyiv); and
4. the lifting of anti-Russia sanctions.

i don't think both sides are seeing this as end all be all for Ukraine. Or else we wouldn't have a peace talk that almost went through in 2022.

So in your world Russia wants Ukraine disarmed and restrained because it doesn’t want to assault it? Kinda like how Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia to cede their defensive lines in the Sudetenland because of how much he wasn’t planning to invade.

These are literally Russia's demands for the peace deal.
I have only added a remark that BOTH sides don't see it as end all be all, which is how you see it.
Especially the "no room to comprises", which is just silly when they were already thinking about exchanging territory and Ukraine would have to pick which land to exchange and which land they would have to forego


Russia would never accept the current lines to be frozen, they want a lot more to even consider peace, this is already an unacceptable position to start negotiating from

Ukraine asked for return for Crimea as well, that's never going to happen.
There's more effort to escalate than negotiation last year, and now the deal has to be made in the worst position.
The only bargaining chip Ukraine has left is the Russian's frozen assets. (that is still pending legal matters)


I know that you are a bit stuck in a disinformation bubble, but the biggest bargaining chip is that Ukraine can hold out for longer than Russia can keep up their invasion, barring the USA officially taking sides and supporting Russia itself.

Russia cannot accept any kind of peacekeepers in or security guaranteed for Ukraine because any peace deal or ceasefire is just a break for them to gather and replenish their forces, and then go again later. If a peace deal means that they cannot go again later, it is not a viable peace deal for them.
Russia will continue their invasion(s) against anyone who isn't part of a defensive alliance or has other security measures in place, or until it physically cannot do so anymore.

This is why sending additional diplomats does nothing and why sending more ammunition and other hardware is the fastest way to peace. Russia understands no other language. The only reason why Russia is even "entertaining" the thought of peace talks is to look more reasonable in the eyes of the Western world, hoping that this will erode the support for Ukraine.


Even Ukraine is in negotiation for peace now, so is this all pointless to you then?
If you think all thee diplomatic solution don't matter at all, then you are essentially saying the entire Russia to be taken down.


Of course they are. They don't want to be seen as the assholes who don't want peace!
I don't see an actual peace deal made any time soon. Earliest in winter when it gets cold again and the conflict would be frozen anyway. Lets see what happens until then
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-11 12:28:16
March 11 2025 12:10 GMT
#15834
First reports and images comming in of Russian units entering central Sudza. Remains to be seen how far into Ukraine the rout will go but for certain the pipe operation will go down as one of the great military operations in human history.

Its difficult to comprehend in our modern times that we, as a species, are decendants of those that pulled off the heroic and epic feats from Gilgamesh and the Iliad through the chivalry of the middle ages and both World Wars. Yet here we are, the Trojan Horse in real life and on camera. Eight hundred men traversing for four days through 16km of a pipeline 1.4m in diameter caused the collapse of the Sudza pocket in days.

Watching the footage and the post interviews maybe Achilles and Odysseus are not so far removed from us after all. The human spirit is an incredible thing.

edit: here is a video with a good general insight into the pipe operation:
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44361 Posts
March 11 2025 13:46 GMT
#15835
The Kursk salient has been compressing for months and in recent weeks the road in has been under Russian fire control. Ukraine has been steadily pulling back.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7196 Posts
March 11 2025 14:06 GMT
#15836
On March 11 2025 21:10 zeo wrote:
First reports and images comming in of Russian units entering central Sudza. Remains to be seen how far into Ukraine the rout will go but for certain the pipe operation will go down as one of the great military operations in human history.

Its difficult to comprehend in our modern times that we, as a species, are decendants of those that pulled off the heroic and epic feats from Gilgamesh and the Iliad through the chivalry of the middle ages and both World Wars. Yet here we are, the Trojan Horse in real life and on camera. Eight hundred men traversing for four days through 16km of a pipeline 1.4m in diameter caused the collapse of the Sudza pocket in days.

Watching the footage and the post interviews maybe Achilles and Odysseus are not so far removed from us after all. The human spirit is an incredible thing.

edit: here is a video with a good general insight into the pipe operation:
https://youtu.be/U9PXPZ95h6A?si=B05RmARh7i_5j8Ac

I hope all those Russians get turned into paste. Wastes of life.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4647 Posts
March 11 2025 14:11 GMT
#15837
On March 11 2025 23:06 Luolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2025 21:10 zeo wrote:
First reports and images comming in of Russian units entering central Sudza. Remains to be seen how far into Ukraine the rout will go but for certain the pipe operation will go down as one of the great military operations in human history.

Its difficult to comprehend in our modern times that we, as a species, are decendants of those that pulled off the heroic and epic feats from Gilgamesh and the Iliad through the chivalry of the middle ages and both World Wars. Yet here we are, the Trojan Horse in real life and on camera. Eight hundred men traversing for four days through 16km of a pipeline 1.4m in diameter caused the collapse of the Sudza pocket in days.

Watching the footage and the post interviews maybe Achilles and Odysseus are not so far removed from us after all. The human spirit is an incredible thing.

edit: here is a video with a good general insight into the pipe operation:
https://youtu.be/U9PXPZ95h6A?si=B05RmARh7i_5j8Ac

I hope all those Russians get turned into paste. Wastes of life.


Remember that homophobic Russia call their heros Gay-Roy :D, probably easier to sacrifice them that way.

Zeo sounded totally unhinged on this one, like he was masturbating while writing that post. I hope I get warned for my post or banned, my brain can't take it anymore.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10961 Posts
March 11 2025 14:13 GMT
#15838
16 KM in 4 days.
At this pace they can race an actual Snail and come out barely ahead.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
March 11 2025 14:28 GMT
#15839
On March 11 2025 23:06 Luolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2025 21:10 zeo wrote:
First reports and images comming in of Russian units entering central Sudza. Remains to be seen how far into Ukraine the rout will go but for certain the pipe operation will go down as one of the great military operations in human history.

Its difficult to comprehend in our modern times that we, as a species, are decendants of those that pulled off the heroic and epic feats from Gilgamesh and the Iliad through the chivalry of the middle ages and both World Wars. Yet here we are, the Trojan Horse in real life and on camera. Eight hundred men traversing for four days through 16km of a pipeline 1.4m in diameter caused the collapse of the Sudza pocket in days.

Watching the footage and the post interviews maybe Achilles and Odysseus are not so far removed from us after all. The human spirit is an incredible thing.

edit: here is a video with a good general insight into the pipe operation:
https://youtu.be/U9PXPZ95h6A?si=B05RmARh7i_5j8Ac

I hope all those Russians get turned into paste. Wastes of life.

Same fate as the 60.000 dead North Koreans, not a trace they were even there. RIP

On March 11 2025 23:11 0x64 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2025 23:06 Luolis wrote:
On March 11 2025 21:10 zeo wrote:
First reports and images comming in of Russian units entering central Sudza. Remains to be seen how far into Ukraine the rout will go but for certain the pipe operation will go down as one of the great military operations in human history.

Its difficult to comprehend in our modern times that we, as a species, are decendants of those that pulled off the heroic and epic feats from Gilgamesh and the Iliad through the chivalry of the middle ages and both World Wars. Yet here we are, the Trojan Horse in real life and on camera. Eight hundred men traversing for four days through 16km of a pipeline 1.4m in diameter caused the collapse of the Sudza pocket in days.

Watching the footage and the post interviews maybe Achilles and Odysseus are not so far removed from us after all. The human spirit is an incredible thing.

edit: here is a video with a good general insight into the pipe operation:
https://youtu.be/U9PXPZ95h6A?si=B05RmARh7i_5j8Ac

I hope all those Russians get turned into paste. Wastes of life.


Remember that homophobic Russia call their heros Gay-Roy :D, probably easier to sacrifice them that way.

Zeo sounded totally unhinged on this one, like he was masturbating while writing that post. I hope I get warned for my post or banned, my brain can't take it anymore.

And to think its only going to get worse for you as the hugbox walls start closing in. lol
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3400 Posts
March 11 2025 16:19 GMT
#15840
Apparently Ukraine has hit Moscow with a massive drone raid.
Their strategic gain is nil so it's almost certainly a sign of defiance to Trump.
Still a big waste of war material.
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