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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 706

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation618 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 18:56:40
August 11 2024 18:56 GMT
#14101
On August 11 2024 18:29 2Pacalypse- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 17:29 Ardias wrote:
On August 10 2024 00:53 kornetka wrote:
On August 09 2024 19:04 0x64 wrote:
Now is the time where we would be extremely interested in A_CH's opinions. When the propaganda has no coherence formed yet.

Also reports of Youtube being blocked in Russia, is it still blocked?

TBH I would be much more interested in Ardias's take on it, but I don't think he posts much recently.

+ Show Spoiler +
Not much to post about in the majority of the discussions here.

About Kursk offensive - if we are talking about military aspect of it, then as was said above, it was probably the only possibility for Ukraine to return to mobile mechanized warfare. Both Russia and Ukraine attempted to organize a large mechanized breakthrough through heavily defended parts on the Donbass frontline (Ukraine with counteroffensive in June 2023, Russia with Avdeevka offensive in November 2023), and both failed to mines, drones and precision munitions. Now similar defensive concentration of Russian forces is everywhere from Kharkov to Kherson. Kursk border, however, is much less densely guarded as it was quiet for many months (besides few diversionary-recoinassance groups incursions here and there from both sides), plus there was probably a mindset that Ukraine would not attack Russia proper en masse since major Western powers were repeatedly declaring that their weaponry should not be used on Russian territory, and all previous Ukrainian attacks were under the guise of Legion Free Russia and Russian Volunteer Corps, so not too numerous as both these formations have just few hundred people.

Reason for the initial success, as I see it, is the aforementioned lack of forces and mindset of no major incursion there. Latter, I guess, contributed to the fact, that military defensive installations in Kursk were not completed in time. The location chosen is also make sense, as 1) there is a city of Sumy as staging point, where you can hide your soldiers and vehicles in industrial warehouses and installations 2) there is at least some road network, further to the north it becomes even more scarce, and surrounded by forests and swamps, which hinder down the logistics, especially if few FABs blow up the crucial bridges.

As for development of current situation - it is, of course, still unclear. But now that Russia is pulling air force and heavy artillery it would inevitable become harder to move large mechanized formations. Though in a span of next week Ukraine is most likely going to try anyway, maybe trying to expand foothold in some other border area, but I wouldn't expect some major success like Kursk nuclear plant captured or something.

My guess it would bog down to attritional warfare within two weeks or so and the main question will be where the frontline will be drawn in the region. Reason is - even if there are indeed 5-6 UA brigades in place, it's still not much in terms of defending the terrtiory already captured, much less expanding further, especially if Russia will move large reserves in the area. Soviet military regulations gave a defending battalion a 5 km frontline at most in combined arms operations, and this figure was fairly consistent for the duration of the war, with concentration of both Russian and Ukrainian troops on the frontline on average reflecting that. The perimeter of the Ukrainian held territory is already around 80-90 km and that's within Kursk region only, not including the border between Russia and Ukraine to the north and south. It will require 16-18 battalions to properly defend already, which is basically what they have there.

About Russian forces in the area - the largest currently known formation is 810th Naval Infantry brigade, plus a mix of different forces pulled into the area ("Hades" Akhmat group, "Tag" international brigade (battalion, in fact), units from former Wagner contractors, couple of territorial defence regiments, border guards, conscripts, etc) with large number of artillery and air assets provided to compensate for the lack of manpower (Iskander, Tornado, Pion, tons of UPABs etc.).

Now for the reasons for such offensive, as I see it, there could possible be four of them:

1) Military - Russian Army was slowly but steadily pushing the Donbass front, and whatever measures Ukraine was implementing, they were not able to stop it. Now it's very debatable, who is losing the attritional warfare, as both sides have different arguments for and against, but no one sees a real picture. However Russian command seemed consistent and content with that strategy, while Ukrainian seemed to be not. Hence this move could draw Russian support and reserve assets from other front, to ease pressure, especially on Pokrovsk direction, so Ukraine could entrench further lines of defence there to grind down Russian advance.

2) Internal politics - Ukraine did not see any major success in the war since the capture of Kherson in November 2022. Counteroffensive failed and basically any gains made in a year were made by the Russians. Mantras about millions of dead orcs and 1 to 7 kill ratio also do not work well when it's third year of war, Russian offensive doesn't stop, mobilization age go lower and lower (with hints that it could go down to 18 y/o), people are literally pulled off the streets to be thrown on frontlines and all the while there is no mobilization in Russia since October 2022 (which is supposed to be losing hundred thousands upon hundred thousands). It is already erupting in form of multiple conscription officer's cars burned, hundreds trying to flee the Ukraine through Moldavian border and even protests against mobilization in the city of Kovel . Even Ukrainian own polls show that majority of population (who even bothered to answer the poll) are pro-evading conscription. Ukraine does desperately need victory to gain back internal public support, and Kursk offensive could be used exactly for that.

3) Pressure on Russia - during the course of war Russian public grew accustomed to it, for majority of people it is going on somewhere on the background while they continue to live their lives (many people also had similar experience during Chechnya war, so it's nothing new to them). And Kremlin is working to keep it that way. However major attack on Russia proper isn't something that could be hushed down or overlooked. A lot of people are more attached to it than for the Donbass territory, and they feel that something should be done to prevent something like this. Thing is that this "something" could be either start of the peace talk, or doubling down on military efforts to defeat Ukraine, which also includes mobilization. Kremlin of course, wants to make former on their terms (about that in paragrapgh 4) and to avoid the latter, since Russia needs to sustain it's economy, it doesn't have indefinite cashflow like Ukraine, and mobilization is not only pulling active qualified workforce, but also scares out a lot more of such workforce, who try to flee the country or go undercover during the span of mobilization,
It also answers the question about Russian propaganda take on the Kursk offensive - downplay it as much as possible to not stir up the public. If Kremlin wanted a mobilization - it would be the best situation to spin out, drawing parallels with Citadel operation, showing burning Marders in Kursk region while calling to defend the Motherland, etc. But it's the contrary - small terrorist incursion, all is under control, etc. etc.

4) Negotiations - the most difficult reason to peceive. During most of 2024 there were a lot of talk about possible negotiations from both sides. Ukraine was even pulling back their demands somewhat about returning to 1991 borders (or rather shifting the responsibility for such deal on the population). However after the incursion rhetoric became much more hawkish (Arestovich (and yes, I know he is not an official anymore, but still a popular media figure), for example switched his tone 180 degrees in an instant).
Though Podolyak reportedly acknowledge that the main goal of the offensive is to have a leg in future peace talk by holding a chunk of Russia proper.
Problem is, Kremlin unlikely to go into negotiation from the position of weakness (at least without considerable efforts to fix the situation), and I don't think that Kursk offensive will be strong enough motivator to do so. I had a bet with a friend, who is also involved in political matters, and he was confident that the war would end by the end of 2024, or April 2025 at most (while my bet was at least the end of 2025 or longer). He was very confident up to the poing of incursion, now saying that this move is nail to the coffin of any negotiations in the recent future.

Thank you for the excellent post Ardias!

Recently I've watched a short analysis of the Ukraine's attack into the Kursk region by Anders Puck Nielsen, and he makes a couple of additional points that I was wondering what you think of them:

1) From the military perspective, he said that Russia was reaching the point of culmination in their continued offensive, or at least that Ukraine believes that to be happening in the next 6-8 weeks. So this incursion into the Russian territory was their way of ensuring that Russia can't take a break after they exhaust their offensive efforts, because they have to deal with this attack.

2) From the internal politics perspective, he said that this attack creates a dilemma for Putin about the role of conscripts in this war. He said, and please do correct this if it's wrong, that most of the Russian soldiers that are actually fighting in Ukraine are "volunteers" (or rather mercenaries since money is their main motivation for volunteering), as opposed to conscripts which are kept mostly rather protected in Russia. So now that the fighting is actually happening on the Russian soil itself, this falls under the protection of conscripts as well. Which means that Putin has to decide if he wants to keep the conscripts protected even further, or bring back the soldiers that are actually fighting in Ukraine and deteriorate their positions there.


1) Can't say anything about the Russian Army running out of offensive forces in 8 weeks, but what's true is that near October Ukraine will turn in a mudfest, which will definetly hinder any offensive operations by itself. Could be added to the point 1) of my post.

2) I had that in mind (and even posted about it here) when four regions were officially included into Russia, that it was a premise to legally use conscripts for the operations there (at least on secondary fronts as the defence force). Didn't happen. However conscripts were still serving on old border, and took part in the repelling all previous Ukraine incursions in Belgorod and Kursk regions. Their number was not too great in comparison with all conscript force in Russia and the scale of said incursions wasn't big, so it generally went unnoticed to both Russian and foreign public.

Will Kremlin be made to use conscripts now? Well, I think it will be preferred to mobilization, but both moves would be negatively perceived by Russian public opinion (former also due to trauma from Chechen wars). So probably Russian MoD will try to sit on two chairs, and use limited amount of conscripts from units already placed around Kursk, but it's unlikely to draw conscript forces from around all of Russia. In any case they will be bolstered with regular troops (or more likely, conscripts will support regulars' actions). 810th Naval Infantry was in Kherson area a month ago and was probably withdrawn in reserve for R&R some weeks before Kursk offensive. Hades group was in Volchansk, Tag" battalion in Chasov Yar, so they are already pulling some smaller formations from different parts of Donbass front.
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2914 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 19:54:52
August 11 2024 19:53 GMT
#14102
Can you imagine how much it would suck doing your mandatory military service and being sent to fight in Kursk. Not only are you facing troops much more experienced than you are (and probably better equipped to).
You also don't get paid compared to the volunteers and you had no say in the matter.

I understand why there's been a lot of conscripts just surrendering ASAP.

The analysis I saw prior to Ukraine getting them said no. They would likely have to be kept at low altitude to not get hit by ground based anti air platforms. Then they cannot shoot at other air planes easily since their air to air rockets would use a lot of their burn just to get to the right altitude.


Yes, but they can be used to intercept things like cruise missiles and drones on the home front so you can move ground based AA to Kursk. So indirectly it might help.
Unity, support, family, and kneecapping bitches.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9336 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 20:18:46
August 11 2024 20:08 GMT
#14103
They're surrendering because they were surprised, not because they fear the Ukrainian warrior. It's a failure of Russian mid-level leadership, not necessarily a result of poor quality/morale of the Russian troops in the area.
You're now breathing manually
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 11 2024 20:17 GMT
#14104
On August 12 2024 02:08 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 02:05 Mohdoo wrote:
I wonder if the F-16s are giving Ukraine a powerful defensive capability that’s letting them use a ton of resources on this push


The analysis I saw prior to Ukraine getting them said no. They would likely have to be kept at low altitude to not get hit by ground based anti air platforms. Then they cannot shoot at other air planes easily since their air to air rockets would use a lot of their burn just to get to the right altitude.

I won’t pretend I know enough to comment on the technical specifics or what you are saying.

From what I can tell, Ukraine sending a ton of stuff into this blitz has not been punished by Russia pushing into other fronts.

If Ukraine is pushing, and Russia is not forcing a “base race” of sorts, I guess that means Russia can’t push anywhere? If Russia can’t push anywhere, that means Ukraine was able to throw all of these resources into a huge push without being punished?
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9336 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 20:19:30
August 11 2024 20:18 GMT
#14105
Actually, I'm very curious about how Russians view the Ukrainian soldiers. I think they probably consider Ukrainian troops to be more or less the same people but less capable and only kept afloat by Western toys deployed in the deep rear, but that's just my guess. If Russians believe an average Ukrainian soldier is better equipped than their own guys, that has to have a terrible effect on the Russian morale.

On August 12 2024 05:17 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 02:08 Yurie wrote:
On August 12 2024 02:05 Mohdoo wrote:
I wonder if the F-16s are giving Ukraine a powerful defensive capability that’s letting them use a ton of resources on this push


The analysis I saw prior to Ukraine getting them said no. They would likely have to be kept at low altitude to not get hit by ground based anti air platforms. Then they cannot shoot at other air planes easily since their air to air rockets would use a lot of their burn just to get to the right altitude.

I won’t pretend I know enough to comment on the technical specifics or what you are saying.

From what I can tell, Ukraine sending a ton of stuff into this blitz has not been punished by Russia pushing into other fronts.

If Ukraine is pushing, and Russia is not forcing a “base race” of sorts, I guess that means Russia can’t push anywhere? If Russia can’t push anywhere, that means Ukraine was able to throw all of these resources into a huge push without being punished?


Russia is still making tiny gains in the south-east, the situation there hasn't changed afaik.
You're now breathing manually
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8281 Posts
August 11 2024 21:19 GMT
#14106
Russia have started a fire inside one of the cooling towers inside the occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-starts-fire-in-occupied-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant-zelenskyy-reports-1683

No clue what this is meant to achieve. The cooling towers carries no radiation, and the plant itself is shut down in any case since 2022. Possible some kind of posturing?
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4659 Posts
August 11 2024 22:01 GMT
#14107
On August 12 2024 06:19 Excludos wrote:
Russia have started a fire inside one of the cooling towers inside the occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-starts-fire-in-occupied-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant-zelenskyy-reports-1683

No clue what this is meant to achieve. The cooling towers carries no radiation, and the plant itself is shut down in any case since 2022. Possible some kind of posturing?


Seems pretty random, looks like panicking
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
a_ch
Profile Joined September 2022
Russian Federation240 Posts
August 12 2024 18:47 GMT
#14108
On August 12 2024 05:18 Sent. wrote:
Actually, I'm very curious about how Russians view the Ukrainian soldiers. I think they probably consider Ukrainian troops to be more or less the same people but less capable and only kept afloat by Western toys deployed in the deep rear, but that's just my guess. If Russians believe an average Ukrainian soldier is better equipped than their own guys, that has to have a terrible effect on the Russian morale.

Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 05:17 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 12 2024 02:08 Yurie wrote:
On August 12 2024 02:05 Mohdoo wrote:
I wonder if the F-16s are giving Ukraine a powerful defensive capability that’s letting them use a ton of resources on this push


The analysis I saw prior to Ukraine getting them said no. They would likely have to be kept at low altitude to not get hit by ground based anti air platforms. Then they cannot shoot at other air planes easily since their air to air rockets would use a lot of their burn just to get to the right altitude.

I won’t pretend I know enough to comment on the technical specifics or what you are saying.

From what I can tell, Ukraine sending a ton of stuff into this blitz has not been punished by Russia pushing into other fronts.

If Ukraine is pushing, and Russia is not forcing a “base race” of sorts, I guess that means Russia can’t push anywhere? If Russia can’t push anywhere, that means Ukraine was able to throw all of these resources into a huge push without being punished?


Russia is still making tiny gains in the south-east, the situation there hasn't changed afaik.


-imho, more or less the same people, except for the nationalistic squads.The quality of equipment varies a lot depending on the particular unit. Generally, Russian army is significantly better in terms of air support, Lancet drones, overall quality and amount of artillery; AFU is good with small aviation (FPV drones etc), communications equipment.
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
2027 Posts
August 12 2024 18:59 GMT
#14109
A nice, short breakdown of the tactics of the Kursk incursión:


This looks like a very crafty operation, and the Russians were caught with their pants down. Hat off to the initial squad of around 300 elite soldiers (number picked on purpose??
Buff the siegetank
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5913 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-12 21:56:38
August 12 2024 21:55 GMT
#14110
They didn't mention the most important aspect of the assault. Allegedly, the Russian forces in that area had outdated drone technology and the Ukrainian side was able to completely suppress them for some 72 hours. Here's an article discussing this: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/8/11/2262239/-Quick-Explainer-Ukrainian-CIC-Oleksandr-Syrskyi-is-Ruthless
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15366 Posts
August 14 2024 06:25 GMT
#14111
Update on the attack on NS2: German authorities apparently have now enough evidence to charge one identified Ukrainian diver.

I doubt much will come from it since Ukraine isn't going to extradite him and Poland (where he used to live) will likely also not help. Plus German prosecutors will get zero support from the (German) government in this as no one wants the incredibly inconvenient truth to come out.

German source:
https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2024-07/nordstream-anschlag-ermittlungen-festnahme/komplettansicht
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7459 Posts
August 14 2024 08:11 GMT
#14112
On August 14 2024 15:25 zatic wrote:
Update on the attack on NS2: German authorities apparently have now enough evidence to charge one identified Ukrainian diver.

I doubt much will come from it since Ukraine isn't going to extradite him and Poland (where he used to live) will likely also not help. Plus German prosecutors will get zero support from the (German) government in this as no one wants the incredibly inconvenient truth to come out.

German source:
https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2024-07/nordstream-anschlag-ermittlungen-festnahme/komplettansicht


They are sure with this one person have two others strongly suspected.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9336 Posts
August 14 2024 09:51 GMT
#14113
Polish prosecutors said Germany requested an arrest of the suspected Ukrainian but the man moved from Poland to Ukraine in july.
You're now breathing manually
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10990 Posts
August 14 2024 09:52 GMT
#14114
On August 13 2024 03:47 a_ch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 05:18 Sent. wrote:
Actually, I'm very curious about how Russians view the Ukrainian soldiers. I think they probably consider Ukrainian troops to be more or less the same people but less capable and only kept afloat by Western toys deployed in the deep rear, but that's just my guess. If Russians believe an average Ukrainian soldier is better equipped than their own guys, that has to have a terrible effect on the Russian morale.

On August 12 2024 05:17 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 12 2024 02:08 Yurie wrote:
On August 12 2024 02:05 Mohdoo wrote:
I wonder if the F-16s are giving Ukraine a powerful defensive capability that’s letting them use a ton of resources on this push


The analysis I saw prior to Ukraine getting them said no. They would likely have to be kept at low altitude to not get hit by ground based anti air platforms. Then they cannot shoot at other air planes easily since their air to air rockets would use a lot of their burn just to get to the right altitude.

I won’t pretend I know enough to comment on the technical specifics or what you are saying.

From what I can tell, Ukraine sending a ton of stuff into this blitz has not been punished by Russia pushing into other fronts.

If Ukraine is pushing, and Russia is not forcing a “base race” of sorts, I guess that means Russia can’t push anywhere? If Russia can’t push anywhere, that means Ukraine was able to throw all of these resources into a huge push without being punished?


Russia is still making tiny gains in the south-east, the situation there hasn't changed afaik.


-imho, more or less the same people, except for the nationalistic squads.The quality of equipment varies a lot depending on the particular unit. Generally, Russian army is significantly better in terms of air support, Lancet drones, overall quality and amount of artillery; AFU is good with small aviation (FPV drones etc), communications equipment.


Why haven't they just bombed the invading forces back to oblivion then?
a_ch
Profile Joined September 2022
Russian Federation240 Posts
August 14 2024 10:58 GMT
#14115
On August 14 2024 18:52 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2024 03:47 a_ch wrote:
On August 12 2024 05:18 Sent. wrote:
Actually, I'm very curious about how Russians view the Ukrainian soldiers. I think they probably consider Ukrainian troops to be more or less the same people but less capable and only kept afloat by Western toys deployed in the deep rear, but that's just my guess. If Russians believe an average Ukrainian soldier is better equipped than their own guys, that has to have a terrible effect on the Russian morale.

On August 12 2024 05:17 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 12 2024 02:08 Yurie wrote:
On August 12 2024 02:05 Mohdoo wrote:
I wonder if the F-16s are giving Ukraine a powerful defensive capability that’s letting them use a ton of resources on this push


The analysis I saw prior to Ukraine getting them said no. They would likely have to be kept at low altitude to not get hit by ground based anti air platforms. Then they cannot shoot at other air planes easily since their air to air rockets would use a lot of their burn just to get to the right altitude.

I won’t pretend I know enough to comment on the technical specifics or what you are saying.

From what I can tell, Ukraine sending a ton of stuff into this blitz has not been punished by Russia pushing into other fronts.

If Ukraine is pushing, and Russia is not forcing a “base race” of sorts, I guess that means Russia can’t push anywhere? If Russia can’t push anywhere, that means Ukraine was able to throw all of these resources into a huge push without being punished?


Russia is still making tiny gains in the south-east, the situation there hasn't changed afaik.


-imho, more or less the same people, except for the nationalistic squads.The quality of equipment varies a lot depending on the particular unit. Generally, Russian army is significantly better in terms of air support, Lancet drones, overall quality and amount of artillery; AFU is good with small aviation (FPV drones etc), communications equipment.


Why haven't they just bombed the invading forces back to oblivion then?


-basically the same as this https://tl.net/forum/general/587060-russo-ukrainian-war-thread?page=546#10906
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10990 Posts
August 14 2024 12:22 GMT
#14116
So, because mighty Russia plain can't?

It's so hilarious in retrospect that this was seen as the second strongest conventional army on the planet.
Ryzel
Profile Joined December 2012
United States568 Posts
August 14 2024 12:52 GMT
#14117
On August 14 2024 21:22 Velr wrote:
So, because mighty Russia plain can't?

It's so hilarious in retrospect that this was seen as the second strongest conventional army on the planet.


Logically, this isn’t sound. What other conventional armies have been tested in war recently that have performed better than Russia’s? Ukraine probably shouldn’t count because they’re so reliant on Western support.

You can be the national leaderboard’s second strongest conventional army on the planet and still be dogshit, until a third army starts something and shows it is better.
Hakuna Matata B*tches
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10990 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-14 15:04:52
August 14 2024 13:44 GMT
#14118
On August 14 2024 21:52 Ryzel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2024 21:22 Velr wrote:
So, because mighty Russia plain can't?

It's so hilarious in retrospect that this was seen as the second strongest conventional army on the planet.


Logically, this isn’t sound. What other conventional armies have been tested in war recently that have performed better than Russia’s? Ukraine probably shouldn’t count because they’re so reliant on Western support.

You can be the national leaderboard’s second strongest conventional army on the planet and still be dogshit, until a third army starts something and shows it is better.


They lost their Black-Sea fleet against a country whiteout a Navy.
They don't have full Air dominance, against a country with barely an Airforce.
They planned for a Blitz and executed it so horrible, it immediatly made anyone go "wtf, how do they fuck this up so bad? let's pump some arms into Ukraine", they obviously stand a chance/deserve it.

The US could obviously have done much better, but I firmly believe France and the UK, or basically any big western nation with a competent military, would have done much, much better in a similar conflict (which is a one sided offensive war 100% according to the terms of the attacker, it doen't get "nicer" than this).

Why? Because they are not utterly riddled with corruption consisting of yes men from bottom to top.
ZeroByte13
Profile Joined March 2022
801 Posts
August 14 2024 14:27 GMT
#14119
On August 14 2024 15:25 zatic wrote:
Update on the attack on NS2: German authorities apparently have now enough evidence to charge one identified Ukrainian diver.

I doubt much will come from it since Ukraine isn't going to extradite him and Poland (where he used to live) will likely also not help. Plus German prosecutors will get zero support from the (German) government in this as no one wants the incredibly inconvenient truth to come out.

German source:
https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2024-07/nordstream-anschlag-ermittlungen-festnahme/komplettansicht
I agree that probably not much will come from it - nor will it change already formed opinions for most people.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4463 Posts
August 14 2024 23:35 GMT
#14120
On October 02 2022 07:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2022 06:29 Taelshin wrote:
Thanks {CC}StealthBlue for keeping this thread, and others updated. I don't always agree with your sources but i appreciate how you consistently give them.

Now it's been a few days, Plasmidghost has made their stance clear, But I haven't heard a lot from the rest of the forum. besides the massive life loss of UK/RU in this war, That is frankly worrying. Who do you all think blew up the pipline?

Id bet against Russia on it but I'm open to hear others opinions.

Makes no sense for Russia to blow it up when they control the flow.They can turn it off and use it as a bargaining chip against Europe later in the winter, full gas flow resumption on lifting of sanctions etc.

I don’t see how it benefits them more to blow it up.

Germany seeking Ukrainian national over Nord Stream gas pipeline explosion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/14/germany-has-issued-arrest-warrant-for-diver-over-nord-stream-explosions-says-report


German authorities have issued an arrest warrant for a Ukrainian man on suspicion of being part of a team that blew up the Nord Stream gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea, according to local media reports.

The man, a diving instructor identified only as Volodymyr Z, is last believed to have lived in Poland, and is alleged to have dived 80 metres to the seabed at night to plant explosive devices on the pipelines, which ran from Russia to Germany, in September 2022.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
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