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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 705

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
August 10 2024 13:04 GMT
#14081
Seeing as this is an actual invasion of Russian territory (completely justified imo.) What is the current policy of Russia in the use of Nuclear Weapons in this scenario. Is this close to a point where Russia would feel justified in the their use?

We saw how easy Wagner traversed inside Russia up to Moscow, I imagine this has a chance of getting out of hand from a Russian point of view, assuming Ukraine doesn't try to take any urban areas.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22703 Posts
August 10 2024 13:36 GMT
#14082
On August 10 2024 22:04 Zaros wrote:
Seeing as this is an actual invasion of Russian territory (completely justified imo.) What is the current policy of Russia in the use of Nuclear Weapons in this scenario. Is this close to a point where Russia would feel justified in the their use?

We saw how easy Wagner traversed inside Russia up to Moscow, I imagine this has a chance of getting out of hand from a Russian point of view, assuming Ukraine doesn't try to take any urban areas.
No
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
a_ch
Profile Joined September 2022
Russian Federation240 Posts
August 10 2024 15:23 GMT
#14083
On August 10 2024 22:04 Zaros wrote:
Seeing as this is an actual invasion of Russian territory (completely justified imo.) What is the current policy of Russia in the use of Nuclear Weapons in this scenario. Is this close to a point where Russia would feel justified in the their use?

We saw how easy Wagner traversed inside Russia up to Moscow, I imagine this has a chance of getting out of hand from a Russian point of view, assuming Ukraine doesn't try to take any urban areas.


-it is unlikely, since currently the situation in Kursk region has stabilized. The current law on nuke using is defensive, something like "it can be used if there is an existential threat to the state", although there's an ongoing discussion to change it.
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
2027 Posts
August 10 2024 15:50 GMT
#14084
On August 11 2024 00:23 a_ch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2024 22:04 Zaros wrote:
Seeing as this is an actual invasion of Russian territory (completely justified imo.) What is the current policy of Russia in the use of Nuclear Weapons in this scenario. Is this close to a point where Russia would feel justified in the their use?

We saw how easy Wagner traversed inside Russia up to Moscow, I imagine this has a chance of getting out of hand from a Russian point of view, assuming Ukraine doesn't try to take any urban areas.


-it is unlikely, since currently the situation in Kursk region has stabilized. The current law on nuke using is defensive, something like "it can be used if there is an existential threat to the state", although there's an ongoing discussion to change it.


I don't think it is possible to claim that the "situation has stabilized" when the attack was launched only 5 days ago, and there is a shortage on reliable information.
Buff the siegetank
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22703 Posts
August 10 2024 17:12 GMT
#14085
But what can be claimed is that Russia itself is not facing an existential threat by this incursion.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
August 10 2024 17:27 GMT
#14086
On August 10 2024 22:04 Zaros wrote:
Seeing as this is an actual invasion of Russian territory (completely justified imo.) What is the current policy of Russia in the use of Nuclear Weapons in this scenario. Is this close to a point where Russia would feel justified in the their use?

We saw how easy Wagner traversed inside Russia up to Moscow, I imagine this has a chance of getting out of hand from a Russian point of view, assuming Ukraine doesn't try to take any urban areas.

Only if they felt the goal of the invasion force was to take out the nuclear capabilities of Russia or posed a serious existential threat to Russia as a state.
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4659 Posts
August 10 2024 17:32 GMT
#14087
On August 11 2024 00:23 a_ch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2024 22:04 Zaros wrote:
Seeing as this is an actual invasion of Russian territory (completely justified imo.) What is the current policy of Russia in the use of Nuclear Weapons in this scenario. Is this close to a point where Russia would feel justified in the their use?

We saw how easy Wagner traversed inside Russia up to Moscow, I imagine this has a chance of getting out of hand from a Russian point of view, assuming Ukraine doesn't try to take any urban areas.


-it is unlikely, since currently the situation in Kursk region has stabilized. The current law on nuke using is defensive, something like "it can be used if there is an existential threat to the state", although there's an ongoing discussion to change it.


Yeah, we can think of it as there is an existential threat to Putin and the generals that will pass down the order.
It is likely that even if Putin would try to interpret it. At some point, someone in Russia would think it is wrong to risk a global nuclear war.

We all know there is a world before and a world after. And I do believe that the state that today use a nuke, would cease to exist within a year. Even the US. So we are at the good old Mutual assured destruction.

Of course Ukraine doesn't have nukes, so there exists a gray area where nukes, of tactical nature will come to discussion.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8281 Posts
August 10 2024 18:58 GMT
#14088
On August 10 2024 21:46 Manit0u wrote:
Ukrainians have now also crossed into the Belogrod region.

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1822178777297777143?t=fBmpinATtLI0QVUmSM5l8w&s=19


I wonder if this is a direct result of Russia thinning out their lines by moving troops northwards to defend in the Kursk area
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9336 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-10 19:55:19
August 10 2024 19:55 GMT
#14089
Some Russians are blaming Lukashenko because he allegedly withdrew Belarusian troops from the border which allowed Ukraine to move some of their guys to the east.
You're now breathing manually
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17872 Posts
August 10 2024 20:35 GMT
#14090
On August 11 2024 03:58 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2024 21:46 Manit0u wrote:
Ukrainians have now also crossed into the Belogrod region.

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1822178777297777143?t=fBmpinATtLI0QVUmSM5l8w&s=19


I wonder if this is a direct result of Russia thinning out their lines by moving troops northwards to defend in the Kursk area


Allegedly Ukrainians are also shelling another border town now, possibly opening up a third incursion area to the north-west of Sumy.

So far there seems to be no response from Russia which is understandable given their doctrine which doesn't allow for much flexibility and mounting of rapid responses. This complicates things for them further since you're slow to respond to a single threat point and now you potentially have three of them and no idea if they're serious enough to warrant a big response which would involve even more slow processes of shifting troops and equipment around.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44448 Posts
August 10 2024 20:49 GMT
#14091
Lukashenko has been utterly useless to Putin this war and I’m all about that. However blaming him for Russia’s failures is amusing. The implication is that of course Russia is outmatched fighting Ukraine solo and therefore it’s not their fault. It’s the fault of the Belorussians for not doing more to assist the underdog Russia.

It’s an impressive tightrope he’s walked though. Putin has a long held and unstoppable policy of recreating the USSR and that threatens the sovereignty of every former SSR. Rather than oppose it Luka insists that he’s all about that annexation and he really wants to be part of Russia but the timing just isn’t right yet. Luka is somehow managing to be so supportive of Putin’s goals that he gets a free pass on providing any actual support to Putin.

Obviously he’s a dictator of a brutal police state but I wonder if any democratically elected leader could have walked that tightrope. Putin’s regime will one day crumble but Luka will likely still be there on that day.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22703 Posts
August 10 2024 21:51 GMT
#14092
On August 11 2024 05:49 KwarK wrote:
Lukashenko has been utterly useless to Putin this war and I’m all about that. However blaming him for Russia’s failures is amusing. The implication is that of course Russia is outmatched fighting Ukraine solo and therefore it’s not their fault. It’s the fault of the Belorussians for not doing more to assist the underdog Russia.

It’s an impressive tightrope he’s walked though. Putin has a long held and unstoppable policy of recreating the USSR and that threatens the sovereignty of every former SSR. Rather than oppose it Luka insists that he’s all about that annexation and he really wants to be part of Russia but the timing just isn’t right yet. Luka is somehow managing to be so supportive of Putin’s goals that he gets a free pass on providing any actual support to Putin.

Obviously he’s a dictator of a brutal police state but I wonder if any democratically elected leader could have walked that tightrope. Putin’s regime will one day crumble but Luka will likely still be there on that day.
I imagine a huge part of why Lukashenko can get away with this is because Russia is fully occupied by Ukraine and there is no army left for a punishment expedition to Belarus.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4659 Posts
August 10 2024 22:40 GMT
#14093
On August 11 2024 06:51 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2024 05:49 KwarK wrote:
Lukashenko has been utterly useless to Putin this war and I’m all about that. However blaming him for Russia’s failures is amusing. The implication is that of course Russia is outmatched fighting Ukraine solo and therefore it’s not their fault. It’s the fault of the Belorussians for not doing more to assist the underdog Russia.

It’s an impressive tightrope he’s walked though. Putin has a long held and unstoppable policy of recreating the USSR and that threatens the sovereignty of every former SSR. Rather than oppose it Luka insists that he’s all about that annexation and he really wants to be part of Russia but the timing just isn’t right yet. Luka is somehow managing to be so supportive of Putin’s goals that he gets a free pass on providing any actual support to Putin.

Obviously he’s a dictator of a brutal police state but I wonder if any democratically elected leader could have walked that tightrope. Putin’s regime will one day crumble but Luka will likely still be there on that day.
I imagine a huge part of why Lukashenko can get away with this is because Russia is fully occupied by Ukraine and there is no army left for a punishment expedition to Belarus.


I would disagree with this statement. There was quite a big opposition to take part in the war. With a lot of sabotage not seen in Russia. Lukashenko played his cards right to juggle internal tension with Russian pressure. While clearly no point in sending troops to Belarus, Russia's twisted messaged is that my allies are safe, be like Belarus.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17872 Posts
August 10 2024 22:52 GMT
#14094
https://istories.media/en/stories/2024/08/01/more-soldiers-at-all-costs/

It seems that Russia has exaggerated its recruitment exercises by about 1.5x if you compare it to actual payments being made.

The unreliability of the figures reported by the Defense Ministry is confirmed by other observations. Entire assault units made up of wounded and crippled soldiers have appeared at the front: “This has already taken such extreme forms when people on crutches and with Ilizarov apparatuses are sent to the front. We see this in all regions, from the Far East to border regions,” CIT experts note. Also, regions continue to increase payments for contracting in an attempt to attract new people, and Putin recommended that all regions raise this amount to at least 400 thousand rubles. This would not have happened if there were enough military recruits, analysts say.

The fact that the Defense Ministry’s plan to recruit contractors is not being fully implemented is confirmed by an IStories source at one of the contractors’ recruitment centers in the Russian Armed Forces (we do not specify its location for the safety of the interlocutor). According to him, in 2023 the regions managed to fulfill the plan only by 50-60%. This year, the rate of contract recruitment is higher, but they are still recruiting at a disadvantage because of the number of irreplaceable losses of the Russian Armed Forces, explains the IStories interlocutor.

In fact, some of the new contractors reported by the authorities do not increase the number of the warring group. “We do not physically see this number of new people at the front, because some of them were already at war, they just have changed their status. Both conscripts, mobilized and fighters of volunteer formations who have signed a contract are enrolled there, so that the region can report to the authorities about the fulfillment of the plan,” CIT explained. — “They do not care if they do not add more people to the front — the main thing is that the statistics should be fulfilled. But what matters is not the number of new contracts, but the number of new people in the army.”


I wonder if this has any influence on the Russian war plans. MoD thinking it has more soldiers available than they do have in reality.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation618 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 08:40:30
August 11 2024 08:29 GMT
#14095
On August 10 2024 00:53 kornetka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2024 19:04 0x64 wrote:
Now is the time where we would be extremely interested in A_CH's opinions. When the propaganda has no coherence formed yet.

Also reports of Youtube being blocked in Russia, is it still blocked?

TBH I would be much more interested in Ardias's take on it, but I don't think he posts much recently.

Not much to post about in the majority of the discussions here.

About Kursk offensive - if we are talking about military aspect of it, then as was said above, it was probably the only possibility for Ukraine to return to mobile mechanized warfare. Both Russia and Ukraine attempted to organize a large mechanized breakthrough through heavily defended parts on the Donbass frontline (Ukraine with counteroffensive in June 2023, Russia with Avdeevka offensive in November 2023), and both failed to mines, drones and precision munitions. Now similar defensive concentration of Russian forces is everywhere from Kharkov to Kherson. Kursk border, however, is much less densely guarded as it was quiet for many months (besides few diversionary-recoinassance groups incursions here and there from both sides), plus there was probably a mindset that Ukraine would not attack Russia proper en masse since major Western powers were repeatedly declaring that their weaponry should not be used on Russian territory, and all previous Ukrainian attacks were under the guise of Legion Free Russia and Russian Volunteer Corps, so not too numerous as both these formations have just few hundred people.

Reason for the initial success, as I see it, is the aforementioned lack of forces and mindset of no major incursion there. Latter, I guess, contributed to the fact, that military defensive installations in Kursk were not completed in time. The location chosen is also make sense, as 1) there is a city of Sumy as staging point, where you can hide your soldiers and vehicles in industrial warehouses and installations 2) there is at least some road network, further to the north it becomes even more scarce, and surrounded by forests and swamps, which hinder down the logistics, especially if few FABs blow up the crucial bridges.

As for development of current situation - it is, of course, still unclear. But now that Russia is pulling air force and heavy artillery it would inevitable become harder to move large mechanized formations. Though in a span of next week Ukraine is most likely going to try anyway, maybe trying to expand foothold in some other border area, but I wouldn't expect some major success like Kursk nuclear plant captured or something.

My guess it would bog down to attritional warfare within two weeks or so and the main question will be where the frontline will be drawn in the region. Reason is - even if there are indeed 5-6 UA brigades in place, it's still not much in terms of defending the terrtiory already captured, much less expanding further, especially if Russia will move large reserves in the area. Soviet military regulations gave a defending battalion a 5 km frontline at most in combined arms operations, and this figure was fairly consistent for the duration of the war, with concentration of both Russian and Ukrainian troops on the frontline on average reflecting that. The perimeter of the Ukrainian held territory is already around 80-90 km and that's within Kursk region only, not including the border between Russia and Ukraine to the north and south. It will require 16-18 battalions to properly defend already, which is basically what they have there.

About Russian forces in the area - the largest currently known formation is 810th Naval Infantry brigade, plus a mix of different forces pulled into the area ("Hades" Akhmat group, "Tag" international brigade (battalion, in fact), units from former Wagner contractors, couple of territorial defence regiments, border guards, conscripts, etc) with large number of artillery and air assets provided to compensate for the lack of manpower (Iskander, Tornado, Pion, tons of UPABs etc.).

Now for the reasons for such offensive, as I see it, there could possible be four of them:

1) Military - Russian Army was slowly but steadily pushing the Donbass front, and whatever measures Ukraine was implementing, they were not able to stop it. Now it's very debatable, who is losing the attritional warfare, as both sides have different arguments for and against, but no one sees a real picture. However Russian command seemed consistent and content with that strategy, while Ukrainian seemed to be not. Hence this move could draw Russian support and reserve assets from other front, to ease pressure, especially on Pokrovsk direction, so Ukraine could entrench further lines of defence there to grind down Russian advance.

2) Internal politics - Ukraine did not see any major success in the war since the capture of Kherson in November 2022. Counteroffensive failed and basically any gains made in a year were made by the Russians. Mantras about millions of dead orcs and 1 to 7 kill ratio also do not work well when it's third year of war, Russian offensive doesn't stop, mobilization age go lower and lower (with hints that it could go down to 18 y/o), people are literally pulled off the streets to be thrown on frontlines and all the while there is no mobilization in Russia since October 2022 (which is supposed to be losing hundred thousands upon hundred thousands). It is already erupting in form of multiple conscription officer's cars burned, hundreds trying to flee the Ukraine through Moldavian border and even protests against mobilization in the city of Kovel . Even Ukrainian own polls show that majority of population (who even bothered to answer the poll) are pro-evading conscription. Ukraine does desperately need victory to gain back internal public support, and Kursk offensive could be used exactly for that.

3) Pressure on Russia - during the course of war Russian public grew accustomed to it, for majority of people it is going on somewhere on the background while they continue to live their lives (many people also had similar experience during Chechnya war, so it's nothing new to them). And Kremlin is working to keep it that way. However major attack on Russia proper isn't something that could be hushed down or overlooked. A lot of people are more attached to it than for the Donbass territory, and they feel that something should be done to prevent something like this. Thing is that this "something" could be either start of the peace talk, or doubling down on military efforts to defeat Ukraine, which also includes mobilization. Kremlin of course, wants to make former on their terms (about that in paragrapgh 4) and to avoid the latter, since Russia needs to sustain it's economy, it doesn't have indefinite cashflow like Ukraine, and mobilization is not only pulling active qualified workforce, but also scares out a lot more of such workforce, who try to flee the country or go undercover during the span of mobilization,
It also answers the question about Russian propaganda take on the Kursk offensive - downplay it as much as possible to not stir up the public. If Kremlin wanted a mobilization - it would be the best situation to spin out, drawing parallels with Citadel operation, showing burning Marders in Kursk region while calling to defend the Motherland, etc. But it's the contrary - small terrorist incursion, all is under control, etc. etc.

4) Negotiations - the most difficult reason to peceive. During most of 2024 there were a lot of talk about possible negotiations from both sides. Ukraine was even pulling back their demands somewhat about returning to 1991 borders (or rather shifting the responsibility for such deal on the population). However after the incursion rhetoric became much more hawkish (Arestovich (and yes, I know he is not an official anymore, but still a popular media figure), for example switched his tone 180 degrees in an instant).
Though Podolyak reportedly acknowledge that the main goal of the offensive is to have a leg in future peace talk by holding a chunk of Russia proper.
Problem is, Kremlin unlikely to go into negotiation from the position of weakness (at least without considerable efforts to fix the situation), and I don't think that Kursk offensive will be strong enough motivator to do so. I had a bet with a friend, who is also involved in political matters, and he was confident that the war would end by the end of 2024, or April 2025 at most (while my bet was at least the end of 2025 or longer). He was very confident up to the poing of incursion, now saying that this move is nail to the coffin of any negotiations in the recent future.

Mess with the best or die like the rest.
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9571 Posts
August 11 2024 09:29 GMT
#14096
On August 11 2024 17:29 Ardias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2024 00:53 kornetka wrote:
On August 09 2024 19:04 0x64 wrote:
Now is the time where we would be extremely interested in A_CH's opinions. When the propaganda has no coherence formed yet.

Also reports of Youtube being blocked in Russia, is it still blocked?

TBH I would be much more interested in Ardias's take on it, but I don't think he posts much recently.

+ Show Spoiler +
Not much to post about in the majority of the discussions here.

About Kursk offensive - if we are talking about military aspect of it, then as was said above, it was probably the only possibility for Ukraine to return to mobile mechanized warfare. Both Russia and Ukraine attempted to organize a large mechanized breakthrough through heavily defended parts on the Donbass frontline (Ukraine with counteroffensive in June 2023, Russia with Avdeevka offensive in November 2023), and both failed to mines, drones and precision munitions. Now similar defensive concentration of Russian forces is everywhere from Kharkov to Kherson. Kursk border, however, is much less densely guarded as it was quiet for many months (besides few diversionary-recoinassance groups incursions here and there from both sides), plus there was probably a mindset that Ukraine would not attack Russia proper en masse since major Western powers were repeatedly declaring that their weaponry should not be used on Russian territory, and all previous Ukrainian attacks were under the guise of Legion Free Russia and Russian Volunteer Corps, so not too numerous as both these formations have just few hundred people.

Reason for the initial success, as I see it, is the aforementioned lack of forces and mindset of no major incursion there. Latter, I guess, contributed to the fact, that military defensive installations in Kursk were not completed in time. The location chosen is also make sense, as 1) there is a city of Sumy as staging point, where you can hide your soldiers and vehicles in industrial warehouses and installations 2) there is at least some road network, further to the north it becomes even more scarce, and surrounded by forests and swamps, which hinder down the logistics, especially if few FABs blow up the crucial bridges.

As for development of current situation - it is, of course, still unclear. But now that Russia is pulling air force and heavy artillery it would inevitable become harder to move large mechanized formations. Though in a span of next week Ukraine is most likely going to try anyway, maybe trying to expand foothold in some other border area, but I wouldn't expect some major success like Kursk nuclear plant captured or something.

My guess it would bog down to attritional warfare within two weeks or so and the main question will be where the frontline will be drawn in the region. Reason is - even if there are indeed 5-6 UA brigades in place, it's still not much in terms of defending the terrtiory already captured, much less expanding further, especially if Russia will move large reserves in the area. Soviet military regulations gave a defending battalion a 5 km frontline at most in combined arms operations, and this figure was fairly consistent for the duration of the war, with concentration of both Russian and Ukrainian troops on the frontline on average reflecting that. The perimeter of the Ukrainian held territory is already around 80-90 km and that's within Kursk region only, not including the border between Russia and Ukraine to the north and south. It will require 16-18 battalions to properly defend already, which is basically what they have there.

About Russian forces in the area - the largest currently known formation is 810th Naval Infantry brigade, plus a mix of different forces pulled into the area ("Hades" Akhmat group, "Tag" international brigade (battalion, in fact), units from former Wagner contractors, couple of territorial defence regiments, border guards, conscripts, etc) with large number of artillery and air assets provided to compensate for the lack of manpower (Iskander, Tornado, Pion, tons of UPABs etc.).

Now for the reasons for such offensive, as I see it, there could possible be four of them:

1) Military - Russian Army was slowly but steadily pushing the Donbass front, and whatever measures Ukraine was implementing, they were not able to stop it. Now it's very debatable, who is losing the attritional warfare, as both sides have different arguments for and against, but no one sees a real picture. However Russian command seemed consistent and content with that strategy, while Ukrainian seemed to be not. Hence this move could draw Russian support and reserve assets from other front, to ease pressure, especially on Pokrovsk direction, so Ukraine could entrench further lines of defence there to grind down Russian advance.

2) Internal politics - Ukraine did not see any major success in the war since the capture of Kherson in November 2022. Counteroffensive failed and basically any gains made in a year were made by the Russians. Mantras about millions of dead orcs and 1 to 7 kill ratio also do not work well when it's third year of war, Russian offensive doesn't stop, mobilization age go lower and lower (with hints that it could go down to 18 y/o), people are literally pulled off the streets to be thrown on frontlines and all the while there is no mobilization in Russia since October 2022 (which is supposed to be losing hundred thousands upon hundred thousands). It is already erupting in form of multiple conscription officer's cars burned, hundreds trying to flee the Ukraine through Moldavian border and even protests against mobilization in the city of Kovel . Even Ukrainian own polls show that majority of population (who even bothered to answer the poll) are pro-evading conscription. Ukraine does desperately need victory to gain back internal public support, and Kursk offensive could be used exactly for that.

3) Pressure on Russia - during the course of war Russian public grew accustomed to it, for majority of people it is going on somewhere on the background while they continue to live their lives (many people also had similar experience during Chechnya war, so it's nothing new to them). And Kremlin is working to keep it that way. However major attack on Russia proper isn't something that could be hushed down or overlooked. A lot of people are more attached to it than for the Donbass territory, and they feel that something should be done to prevent something like this. Thing is that this "something" could be either start of the peace talk, or doubling down on military efforts to defeat Ukraine, which also includes mobilization. Kremlin of course, wants to make former on their terms (about that in paragrapgh 4) and to avoid the latter, since Russia needs to sustain it's economy, it doesn't have indefinite cashflow like Ukraine, and mobilization is not only pulling active qualified workforce, but also scares out a lot more of such workforce, who try to flee the country or go undercover during the span of mobilization,
It also answers the question about Russian propaganda take on the Kursk offensive - downplay it as much as possible to not stir up the public. If Kremlin wanted a mobilization - it would be the best situation to spin out, drawing parallels with Citadel operation, showing burning Marders in Kursk region while calling to defend the Motherland, etc. But it's the contrary - small terrorist incursion, all is under control, etc. etc.

4) Negotiations - the most difficult reason to peceive. During most of 2024 there were a lot of talk about possible negotiations from both sides. Ukraine was even pulling back their demands somewhat about returning to 1991 borders (or rather shifting the responsibility for such deal on the population). However after the incursion rhetoric became much more hawkish (Arestovich (and yes, I know he is not an official anymore, but still a popular media figure), for example switched his tone 180 degrees in an instant).
Though Podolyak reportedly acknowledge that the main goal of the offensive is to have a leg in future peace talk by holding a chunk of Russia proper.
Problem is, Kremlin unlikely to go into negotiation from the position of weakness (at least without considerable efforts to fix the situation), and I don't think that Kursk offensive will be strong enough motivator to do so. I had a bet with a friend, who is also involved in political matters, and he was confident that the war would end by the end of 2024, or April 2025 at most (while my bet was at least the end of 2025 or longer). He was very confident up to the poing of incursion, now saying that this move is nail to the coffin of any negotiations in the recent future.

Thank you for the excellent post Ardias!

Recently I've watched a short analysis of the Ukraine's attack into the Kursk region by Anders Puck Nielsen, and he makes a couple of additional points that I was wondering what you think of them:

1) From the military perspective, he said that Russia was reaching the point of culmination in their continued offensive, or at least that Ukraine believes that to be happening in the next 6-8 weeks. So this incursion into the Russian territory was their way of ensuring that Russia can't take a break after they exhaust their offensive efforts, because they have to deal with this attack.

2) From the internal politics perspective, he said that this attack creates a dilemma for Putin about the role of conscripts in this war. He said, and please do correct this if it's wrong, that most of the Russian soldiers that are actually fighting in Ukraine are "volunteers" (or rather mercenaries since money is their main motivation for volunteering), as opposed to conscripts which are kept mostly rather protected in Russia. So now that the fighting is actually happening on the Russian soil itself, this falls under the protection of conscripts as well. Which means that Putin has to decide if he wants to keep the conscripts protected even further, or bring back the soldiers that are actually fighting in Ukraine and deteriorate their positions there.
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Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8281 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 10:27:18
August 11 2024 10:26 GMT
#14097
Ukrainian strike into Lipetsk airbase destroyed over 700 bombs. The ammo stock got absolutely obliterated https://map.ukrdailyupdate.com/kmz/2024-08-09/pic/lipetsklol.jpg

Airframes were stored on base as well, but the damages to them is unknown
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8281 Posts
August 11 2024 16:21 GMT
#14098
In a weird twist of events, Moscow is not only admitting to Ukraine pushing far inside Russia (rather than the previously "attempted border excursions that are easily twarted"), but also shedding some lights into how far in they are: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crkm08rv5m0o

30km now. Ukraine is pushing in at absolutely break-neck pace at the moment.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 11 2024 17:05 GMT
#14099
I wonder if the F-16s are giving Ukraine a powerful defensive capability that’s letting them use a ton of resources on this push
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12185 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-11 17:09:26
August 11 2024 17:08 GMT
#14100
On August 12 2024 02:05 Mohdoo wrote:
I wonder if the F-16s are giving Ukraine a powerful defensive capability that’s letting them use a ton of resources on this push


The analysis I saw prior to Ukraine getting them said no. They would likely have to be kept at low altitude to not get hit by ground based anti air platforms. Then they cannot shoot at other air planes easily since their air to air rockets would use a lot of their burn just to get to the right altitude.
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