EPTThat said I think this is just a continuation of the previous claims. This is US piling on confirming the claims, rather than Ukraine accusing it alone
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 677
| Forum Index > General Forum |
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
|
Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
That said I think this is just a continuation of the previous claims. This is US piling on confirming the claims, rather than Ukraine accusing it alone | ||
|
maybenexttime
Poland5864 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/02/gazprom-first-annual-loss-in-20-years-trade-europe-gas-sales-russia-ukraine | ||
|
Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Seems like GPS denial really hurts the precision weapons from USA. Both glsdb and excalibur don't really work too well without GPS. Volume of fire is really the only solution for now it seems. I do wonder though, we have news of this: https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract/Article/3765102/ Home on jam for jdams, so apart from the obvious of putting them on aircraft, frankensteining a GLSDB with a home on jam seeker might give a budget friendly way of clearing a large swathe of Frontline from GPS jamming. | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2889 Posts
Need INS and some kind of terminal guidance system. Backup guidance gets you in the vicinity of the target and terminal gets you on it. Probably either optical image recognition or laser guidance from a drone. | ||
|
zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
Edit: in any case its forward groups for now and no sign of a general offensive, though it all depends on the goals. Most talk seems to be about creating a buffer zone | ||
|
ZeroByte13
799 Posts
| ||
|
Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
| ||
|
Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
| ||
|
ZeroByte13
799 Posts
On May 11 2024 04:40 Branch.AUT wrote: Last time I heard nobody wanted peace - Russia wanted Kiev to surrender, Ukraine wanted all of its territories back.Peace conference and new borders. What else? Has it changed recently? | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22578 Posts
| ||
|
Yurie
12163 Posts
On May 11 2024 04:57 Gorsameth wrote: Even if Ukraine was willing to accept their loses and go for peace, considering Russia broke the previous agreement not to invade Ukraine such an agreement would not be worth anything and would only serve as a timeout for Russia to rebuilt their army before going again. The only way for Ukraine to accept peace would be an EU or NATO entry instantly after. Basically joining a defense alliance. As far as I know that isn't offered even if they give up claims to currently occupied Ukraine. | ||
|
zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On May 11 2024 03:17 ZeroByte13 wrote: A buffer zone for what? There has always been talk of creating a buffer or sanitation zone as a response to the supply of long range missiles or weapons to the government in Kiev. Whatever the range of the missiles shipped, thats how far away their possible deployment from populations centers in pre-2022 Russia the buffer zone needs to be. There have also been a few PR border raid campaigns by proxy groups and indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas and something like this has been inevitable for quite some time now. It also lengthens the front, Russia at the end of 2022 was desperate to shorten the front line as much as possible due to manpower shortages but now if the active front line is lengthened by 20-30% its going to cause a lot more problems for Kiev than for Moscow. They don't have the manpower there to take Kharkov head on and that would be a bloody mess but by forcing a combat line filled with personnel that could have been of use elsewhere the attrition rates spike sharply. | ||
KwarK
United States44288 Posts
On May 11 2024 13:44 zeo wrote: There has always been talk of creating a buffer or sanitation zone as a response to the supply of long range missiles or weapons to the government in Kiev. Whatever the range of the missiles shipped, thats how far away their possible deployment from populations centers in pre-2022 Russia the buffer zone needs to be. There have also been a few PR border raid campaigns by proxy groups and indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas and something like this has been inevitable for quite some time now. It also lengthens the front, Russia at the end of 2022 was desperate to shorten the front line as much as possible due to manpower shortages but now if the active front line is lengthened by 20-30% its going to cause a lot more problems for Kiev than for Moscow. They don't have the manpower there to take Kharkov head on and that would be a bloody mess but by forcing a combat line filled with personnel that could have been of use elsewhere the attrition rates spike sharply. This is not a reasonable demand. You don’t get to demand that your neighbours surrender all land near your cities, you just have to try to not be the kind of neighbour who deserves missile strikes. That’s what Russia doesn’t understand. Everyone else seems to be able to get along without needing buffer zones because nobody else is attacking their neighbours. | ||
hexhaven
Finland965 Posts
On May 11 2024 15:52 KwarK wrote: This is not a reasonable demand. You don’t get to demand that your neighbours surrender all land near your cities, you just have to try to not be the kind of neighbour who deserves missile strikes. That’s what Russia doesn’t understand. Everyone else seems to be able to get along without needing buffer zones because nobody else is attacking their neighbours. Russia wants to create buffer zones within Ukraine because Western militaries have sent long range missiles to Ukraine... after Russia invaded Ukraine. It's just a coincidence that those proposed buffer zones should reach the Polish and Romanian borders, of course. Reminder that Russia could take tangible steps towards peace any time it wanted to, by moving troops away from the front. | ||
|
Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On May 11 2024 17:35 hexhaven wrote: Reminder that Russia could take tangible steps towards peace any time it wanted to, by moving troops away from the front. Considering their goal was to get rid of Nazism and corruption in Ukraine, one could even argue that they've achieved their goal! They have no reason not to pull out of the country now. | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11988 Posts
On May 11 2024 20:36 Excludos wrote: Considering their goal was to get rid of Nazism and corruption in Ukraine, one could even argue that they've achieved their goal! They have no reason not to pull out of the country now. In fact, if every Russian soldier left Ukraine, there would almost certainly be far fewer Nazis there. | ||
|
zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On May 11 2024 15:52 KwarK wrote: This is not a reasonable demand. You don’t get to demand that your neighbours surrender all land near your cities, you just have to try to not be the kind of neighbour who deserves missile strikes. That’s what Russia doesn’t understand. Everyone else seems to be able to get along without needing buffer zones because nobody else is attacking their neighbours. Random internet users don't get to decide what is reasonable or not. Countries don't care, they take whatever actions they want to take and justify it with whatever they want, they'll find a reason. Look at Isreal. In this case double down escalation rhetoric has led to a widening of the front. - If you don't pull out of Ukraine we will send missiles! - oh yeah? you do that and we will invade even more - sends missiles - invades even more - oh yeah? because you invaded even more we will do xyz next - ect. ect. The whole 'regions vote to become part of Russia' came about after negotiations failed and Ukraine started getting mass pumped with weapons. Again, its some people at the top weighing the pros and cons on both sides and being careful not to escalate too much. When you full send there is no going back and you lose any leverage you had. Take sanctions as an example, Russia had its arm twisted behind its back since 2014 with sanctions and the threat of being cut off. NATO immediately went all in with sanctions, Russia took the hit and didn't collapse. Now sanctions are rarely mentioned anymore unless as a meme used to laugh at how Europe shot itself in the foot with how impotent they are | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7194 Posts
On May 11 2024 21:43 zeo wrote: Random internet users don't get to decide what is reasonable or not. Countries don't care, they take whatever actions they want to take and justify it with whatever they want, they'll find a reason. Look at Isreal. In this case double down escalation rhetoric has led to a widening of the front. - If you don't pull out of Ukraine we will send missiles! - oh yeah? you do that and we will invade even more - sends missiles - invades even more - oh yeah? because you invaded even more we will do xyz next - ect. ect. The whole 'regions vote to become part of Russia' came about after negotiations failed and Ukraine started getting mass pumped with weapons. Again, its some people at the top weighing the pros and cons on both sides and being careful not to escalate too much. When you full send there is no going back and you lose any leverage you had. Take sanctions as an example, Russia had its arm twisted behind its back since 2014 with sanctions and the threat of being cut off. NATO immediately went all in with sanctions, Russia took the hit and didn't collapse. Now sanctions are rarely mentioned anymore unless as a meme used to laugh at how Europe shot itself in the foot with how impotent they are Sounds to me like we should just bomb the shit country of Russia then if they dont play with the rules. | ||
|
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
The Israel situation is not even remotely comparable unless there was an unending barrage of rocket attacks into Russia that I was not aware of prior to Feb 24, 2022 (or 2014 for that matter). https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel The Ukrainian's greatest fault is they had the temerity to not roll over when Russia invaded. What horrible neighbours, defending their own borders. The inhumanity! | ||
|
KwarK
United States44288 Posts
On May 12 2024 01:38 Falling wrote: Guess we have a modern day imperialist in our midst. The Israel situation is not even remotely comparable unless there was an unending barrage of rocket attacks into Russia that I was not aware of prior to Feb 24, 2022 (or 2014 for that matter). https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel The Ukrainian's greatest fault is they had the temerity to not roll over when Russia invaded. What horrible neighbours, defending their own borders. The inhumanity! In fairness they did also try rolling over when Russia invaded. That's what they did in 2014. It didn't help one bit, Russia just invaded again. The idea that Ukraine has been given any option other than resistance is absurd. They tried disarmament, they tried treaties of territorial recognition and integrity, they tried negotiated ceasefires, they tried appeasement. There was no violence in the Donbas in 2021. There was a peace until Russia broke it. | ||
| ||
