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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 671

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22578 Posts
March 28 2024 22:52 GMT
#13401
On March 29 2024 07:41 0x64 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2024 07:36 Simberto wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:14 Sent. wrote:
On March 29 2024 06:39 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 28 2024 19:51 Sent. wrote:
I disagree with the claim that giving Ukraine more weapons counts as "escalation". We're just giving them stuff to help them do what they are already doing. Escalation would be something that opens a new aspect of the conflict, like a deep invasion into Russia or giving Ukraine nuclear weapons (which in my opinion is an absurd idea by the way).

The last two years, ulraine got just enough to stay even. Or reconquer important positions with a slight edge at most.
The never got overwhelming firepower to actually defeat russian forces convincingly.

Which is what that near-sighted PR letter from 31 nobel laureats is asking for. More military support, so ukraine can defeat russia.
Doesn't matter how you label it. That is escalating the arms conflict.
Ukraine convincingly reconquering donbass is escalation.
As is retaking crimea.
Any military success on ukraine side, will force russia to escalate.
Any time you strengthen ukraine, russia has to escalate.

Goes to show that a nobel prize in physics doesn't make anyone a good stregist, tactitian or statesman.


I think Ukraine would continue using its manpower to defend itself regardless of whether it had only T-72s, 10 extra Leopards or 200 extra Leopards. If Ukrainians didn't receive any weapons, they would still try to defend Bakhmut, Avdiivka and whatever town Russia would target next. I wouldn't say it's an escalation if the sides will continue to fight for south eastern Ukraine and the only thing that changes is the side making progress.toward their goal.

I find the belief that Russia is happy with what it took and has no desire to keep attacking very naive. The only reason they're not pushing forward more aggressively is that they're unable replenish their losses fast enough to maintain a higher pace of combat.


Exactly. Putin would push for Kiev if he could, and either annex Ukraine, or annex some parts and set up a puppet regime in the rest. That was what Russia has attempted in the beginning of the war, and there is no reason to assume that given the chance, they wouldn't do that now.

This escalation talk is silly. Putin has exactly one card he hasn't played yet, and that is nuclear weapons. He won't use those (except as a threat) because that would be suicidal and not actually help achieve any goals. Russia is sending as many men and weapons into Ukraine as it can muster.

The goal for the west should be to make Russia lose, make them return all of the occupied parts of Ukraine. We should not do that for Ukraine, but for our selves. A world order where countries randomly attack their neighbours because they feel stronger is fucking scary. We should do anything we can to prevent that from being established as normal. Making Russia lose hard here is the only way to make sure no one else tries for a while.

The clear message to any imperialist dictator should be that if you attack your weaker neighbour, they will get supplied, and you will lose.
He does have full mobilisation, which might be the only thing that Russians are scared the crazy man could do.
What use is full mobilisation if you can't supply them? And runs a risk of the country actually revolting (tho a slim chance at best)
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
freepanel76
Profile Joined March 2024
1 Post
Last Edited: 2024-03-29 07:49:15
March 29 2024 07:49 GMT
#13402
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 29 2024 13:51 GMT
#13403
--- Nuked ---
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
March 29 2024 14:46 GMT
#13404
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68656853

They're trying to blame everyone but their own incompetence, so they can add it on to the pile of the rest of their lackluster excuses for continuing the invasion of Ukraine. The best ones are the ones blaming NATO and "The West", despite "The West" literally warning them about it. This might be modus operandi for Russia, but "The West" isn't in the habit of warning their opponents about an imminent terrorist attack they themselves orchestrated.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-03-29 19:46:32
March 29 2024 19:43 GMT
#13405
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russia-security-services-knew-isis-093158876.html

Well that's pretty embarrassing..

What's more embarrassing are people still beliving this was an Ukrainian attack, even after all this. At this point,the only options left are that Russia are completely incompetent, or they let it happen so they could try to blame it on Ukraine. Either way isn't a particularly good look
barcelias
Profile Joined March 2024
1 Post
April 01 2024 07:54 GMT
#13406
--- Nuked ---
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5864 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-04-01 18:11:01
April 01 2024 17:45 GMT
#13407


https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425

A joint investigation by The Insider, Der Spiegel and CBS has linked the so-called Havana syndrome to Russian intelligence. It looks like for years Russia has been targeting US and other Western officials and agents with a weapon causing brain damage, among other symptoms.

Do you think this could force the Republicans' hand and stop them from aiding the enemy? Is this case blowing up in the US?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22578 Posts
April 01 2024 18:00 GMT
#13408
On April 02 2024 02:45 maybenexttime wrote:
https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425

A joint investigation by The Insider, Der Spiegel and CBS has linked the so-called Havana syndrome to Russian intelligence. It looks like for years Russia has been targeting US and other Western officials and agents with a weapon causing brain damage, among other symptoms.

Do you think this could force the Republicans' hand and stop them from aiding the enemy? Is this case blowing up in the US?
something something, act of war, something something.

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Branch.AUT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Austria853 Posts
April 01 2024 18:33 GMT
#13409
On March 29 2024 07:52 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2024 07:41 0x64 wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:36 Simberto wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:14 Sent. wrote:
On March 29 2024 06:39 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 28 2024 19:51 Sent. wrote:
I disagree with the claim that giving Ukraine more weapons counts as "escalation". We're just giving them stuff to help them do what they are already doing. Escalation would be something that opens a new aspect of the conflict, like a deep invasion into Russia or giving Ukraine nuclear weapons (which in my opinion is an absurd idea by the way).

The last two years, ulraine got just enough to stay even. Or reconquer important positions with a slight edge at most.
The never got overwhelming firepower to actually defeat russian forces convincingly.

Which is what that near-sighted PR letter from 31 nobel laureats is asking for. More military support, so ukraine can defeat russia.
Doesn't matter how you label it. That is escalating the arms conflict.
Ukraine convincingly reconquering donbass is escalation.
As is retaking crimea.
Any military success on ukraine side, will force russia to escalate.
Any time you strengthen ukraine, russia has to escalate.

Goes to show that a nobel prize in physics doesn't make anyone a good stregist, tactitian or statesman.


I think Ukraine would continue using its manpower to defend itself regardless of whether it had only T-72s, 10 extra Leopards or 200 extra Leopards. If Ukrainians didn't receive any weapons, they would still try to defend Bakhmut, Avdiivka and whatever town Russia would target next. I wouldn't say it's an escalation if the sides will continue to fight for south eastern Ukraine and the only thing that changes is the side making progress.toward their goal.

I find the belief that Russia is happy with what it took and has no desire to keep attacking very naive. The only reason they're not pushing forward more aggressively is that they're unable replenish their losses fast enough to maintain a higher pace of combat.


Exactly. Putin would push for Kiev if he could, and either annex Ukraine, or annex some parts and set up a puppet regime in the rest. That was what Russia has attempted in the beginning of the war, and there is no reason to assume that given the chance, they wouldn't do that now.

This escalation talk is silly. Putin has exactly one card he hasn't played yet, and that is nuclear weapons. He won't use those (except as a threat) because that would be suicidal and not actually help achieve any goals. Russia is sending as many men and weapons into Ukraine as it can muster.

The goal for the west should be to make Russia lose, make them return all of the occupied parts of Ukraine. We should not do that for Ukraine, but for our selves. A world order where countries randomly attack their neighbours because they feel stronger is fucking scary. We should do anything we can to prevent that from being established as normal. Making Russia lose hard here is the only way to make sure no one else tries for a while.

The clear message to any imperialist dictator should be that if you attack your weaker neighbour, they will get supplied, and you will lose.
He does have full mobilisation, which might be the only thing that Russians are scared the crazy man could do.
What use is full mobilisation if you can't supply them? And runs a risk of the country actually revolting (tho a slim chance at best)

Russia in their own view of the world are not at war. The possibilities for siezing production, forcing labour, drafting soldiers will get increased immensly if they turn their "special military operation" into full scale war effort. The majority of the population and economy is not at full scale war operation.

To think that russia is almost beat, or incapable of upping their efforts, or has no cards left to play is underestimating your opponent. Rts enthusiasts of all people should know where that leads.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
April 01 2024 18:44 GMT
#13410
On April 02 2024 02:45 maybenexttime wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY

https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425

A joint investigation by The Insider, Der Spiegel and CBS has linked the so-called Havana syndrome to Russian intelligence. It looks like for years Russia has been targeting US and other Western officials and agents with a weapon causing brain damage, among other symptoms.

Do you think this could force the Republicans' hand and stop them from aiding the enemy? Is this case blowing up in the US?

I find the conspiracy theory that the CIA (and several other agencies) are lying to help Russia cover this up for agency recruitment purposes amusing albeit rather incredible.

For most people in the US they stopped paying attention to "Havana Syndrome" stuff after this:

Beginning in 2022, several major studies were published, and none of them found any evidence of involvement by a hostile power. In January 2022, the Central Intelligence Agency issued an interim assessment concluding that the syndrome is not the result of "a sustained global campaign by a hostile power".

and

In March 2023, seven U.S. intelligence agencies completed a review of the proposed cases of Havana syndrome and released an unclassified report with the consensus that "available intelligence consistently points against the involvement of US adversaries in causing the reported incidents".


en.wikipedia.org
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22578 Posts
April 01 2024 18:58 GMT
#13411
On April 02 2024 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2024 02:45 maybenexttime wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY

https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425

A joint investigation by The Insider, Der Spiegel and CBS has linked the so-called Havana syndrome to Russian intelligence. It looks like for years Russia has been targeting US and other Western officials and agents with a weapon causing brain damage, among other symptoms.

Do you think this could force the Republicans' hand and stop them from aiding the enemy? Is this case blowing up in the US?

I find the conspiracy theory that the CIA (and several other agencies) are lying to help Russia cover this up for agency recruitment purposes amusing albeit rather incredible.

For most people in the US they stopped paying attention to "Havana Syndrome" stuff after this:

Show nested quote +
Beginning in 2022, several major studies were published, and none of them found any evidence of involvement by a hostile power. In January 2022, the Central Intelligence Agency issued an interim assessment concluding that the syndrome is not the result of "a sustained global campaign by a hostile power".

and

Show nested quote +
In March 2023, seven U.S. intelligence agencies completed a review of the proposed cases of Havana syndrome and released an unclassified report with the consensus that "available intelligence consistently points against the involvement of US adversaries in causing the reported incidents".


en.wikipedia.org
Or a coordinated global attack on US personal is a serious thing and the government doesn't want to acknowledge it out of fear of being 'forced' into an escalation by public pressure.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5864 Posts
April 01 2024 19:32 GMT
#13412
On April 02 2024 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2024 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 02 2024 02:45 maybenexttime wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY

https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425

A joint investigation by The Insider, Der Spiegel and CBS has linked the so-called Havana syndrome to Russian intelligence. It looks like for years Russia has been targeting US and other Western officials and agents with a weapon causing brain damage, among other symptoms.

Do you think this could force the Republicans' hand and stop them from aiding the enemy? Is this case blowing up in the US?

I find the conspiracy theory that the CIA (and several other agencies) are lying to help Russia cover this up for agency recruitment purposes amusing albeit rather incredible.

For most people in the US they stopped paying attention to "Havana Syndrome" stuff after this:

Beginning in 2022, several major studies were published, and none of them found any evidence of involvement by a hostile power. In January 2022, the Central Intelligence Agency issued an interim assessment concluding that the syndrome is not the result of "a sustained global campaign by a hostile power".

and

In March 2023, seven U.S. intelligence agencies completed a review of the proposed cases of Havana syndrome and released an unclassified report with the consensus that "available intelligence consistently points against the involvement of US adversaries in causing the reported incidents".


en.wikipedia.org
Or a coordinated global attack on US personal is a serious thing and the government doesn't want to acknowledge it out of fear of being 'forced' into an escalation by public pressure.

That's what I'm thinking. The article gives too many details that can't be a coincidence. Numerous traces leading to a specific military unit whose members were present during the alleged attacks. Not to mention the track record of the investigative journalists involved.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
April 01 2024 19:44 GMT
#13413
On April 02 2024 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2024 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 02 2024 02:45 maybenexttime wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY

https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425

A joint investigation by The Insider, Der Spiegel and CBS has linked the so-called Havana syndrome to Russian intelligence. It looks like for years Russia has been targeting US and other Western officials and agents with a weapon causing brain damage, among other symptoms.

Do you think this could force the Republicans' hand and stop them from aiding the enemy? Is this case blowing up in the US?

I find the conspiracy theory that the CIA (and several other agencies) are lying to help Russia cover this up for agency recruitment purposes amusing albeit rather incredible.

For most people in the US they stopped paying attention to "Havana Syndrome" stuff after this:

Beginning in 2022, several major studies were published, and none of them found any evidence of involvement by a hostile power. In January 2022, the Central Intelligence Agency issued an interim assessment concluding that the syndrome is not the result of "a sustained global campaign by a hostile power".

and

In March 2023, seven U.S. intelligence agencies completed a review of the proposed cases of Havana syndrome and released an unclassified report with the consensus that "available intelligence consistently points against the involvement of US adversaries in causing the reported incidents".


en.wikipedia.org
Or a coordinated global attack on US personal is a serious thing and the government doesn't want to acknowledge it out of fear of being 'forced' into an escalation by public pressure.

Except the US government were among the first to say it was an attack on US personnel

U.S. State Department officials contended Cuba staged a sonic attack on employees of the American embassy, causing a variety of neurological symptoms.


www.scientificamerican.com (2018)
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17843 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-04-01 19:55:31
April 01 2024 19:55 GMT
#13414
https://www.facebook.com/PortalMilitarny/videos/ukraińska-25-brygada-powietrznodesantowa-udostępniła-film-przedstawiający-odparc/1723540884849383

A video was released of Ukrainians repelling the largest mechanized attack since Avdiivka. 36 tanks and 12 IFVs. 12 tanks and 8 IFVs were destroyed.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44288 Posts
April 01 2024 20:01 GMT
#13415
On April 02 2024 03:33 Branch.AUT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2024 07:52 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:41 0x64 wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:36 Simberto wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:14 Sent. wrote:
On March 29 2024 06:39 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 28 2024 19:51 Sent. wrote:
I disagree with the claim that giving Ukraine more weapons counts as "escalation". We're just giving them stuff to help them do what they are already doing. Escalation would be something that opens a new aspect of the conflict, like a deep invasion into Russia or giving Ukraine nuclear weapons (which in my opinion is an absurd idea by the way).

The last two years, ulraine got just enough to stay even. Or reconquer important positions with a slight edge at most.
The never got overwhelming firepower to actually defeat russian forces convincingly.

Which is what that near-sighted PR letter from 31 nobel laureats is asking for. More military support, so ukraine can defeat russia.
Doesn't matter how you label it. That is escalating the arms conflict.
Ukraine convincingly reconquering donbass is escalation.
As is retaking crimea.
Any military success on ukraine side, will force russia to escalate.
Any time you strengthen ukraine, russia has to escalate.

Goes to show that a nobel prize in physics doesn't make anyone a good stregist, tactitian or statesman.


I think Ukraine would continue using its manpower to defend itself regardless of whether it had only T-72s, 10 extra Leopards or 200 extra Leopards. If Ukrainians didn't receive any weapons, they would still try to defend Bakhmut, Avdiivka and whatever town Russia would target next. I wouldn't say it's an escalation if the sides will continue to fight for south eastern Ukraine and the only thing that changes is the side making progress.toward their goal.

I find the belief that Russia is happy with what it took and has no desire to keep attacking very naive. The only reason they're not pushing forward more aggressively is that they're unable replenish their losses fast enough to maintain a higher pace of combat.


Exactly. Putin would push for Kiev if he could, and either annex Ukraine, or annex some parts and set up a puppet regime in the rest. That was what Russia has attempted in the beginning of the war, and there is no reason to assume that given the chance, they wouldn't do that now.

This escalation talk is silly. Putin has exactly one card he hasn't played yet, and that is nuclear weapons. He won't use those (except as a threat) because that would be suicidal and not actually help achieve any goals. Russia is sending as many men and weapons into Ukraine as it can muster.

The goal for the west should be to make Russia lose, make them return all of the occupied parts of Ukraine. We should not do that for Ukraine, but for our selves. A world order where countries randomly attack their neighbours because they feel stronger is fucking scary. We should do anything we can to prevent that from being established as normal. Making Russia lose hard here is the only way to make sure no one else tries for a while.

The clear message to any imperialist dictator should be that if you attack your weaker neighbour, they will get supplied, and you will lose.
He does have full mobilisation, which might be the only thing that Russians are scared the crazy man could do.
What use is full mobilisation if you can't supply them? And runs a risk of the country actually revolting (tho a slim chance at best)

Russia in their own view of the world are not at war. The possibilities for siezing production, forcing labour, drafting soldiers will get increased immensly if they turn their "special military operation" into full scale war effort. The majority of the population and economy is not at full scale war operation.

To think that russia is almost beat, or incapable of upping their efforts, or has no cards left to play is underestimating your opponent. Rts enthusiasts of all people should know where that leads.

Their leaders literally say that they’re at war nightly on tv.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Branch.AUT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Austria853 Posts
April 01 2024 20:17 GMT
#13416
On April 02 2024 05:01 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2024 03:33 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:52 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:41 0x64 wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:36 Simberto wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:14 Sent. wrote:
On March 29 2024 06:39 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 28 2024 19:51 Sent. wrote:
I disagree with the claim that giving Ukraine more weapons counts as "escalation". We're just giving them stuff to help them do what they are already doing. Escalation would be something that opens a new aspect of the conflict, like a deep invasion into Russia or giving Ukraine nuclear weapons (which in my opinion is an absurd idea by the way).

The last two years, ulraine got just enough to stay even. Or reconquer important positions with a slight edge at most.
The never got overwhelming firepower to actually defeat russian forces convincingly.

Which is what that near-sighted PR letter from 31 nobel laureats is asking for. More military support, so ukraine can defeat russia.
Doesn't matter how you label it. That is escalating the arms conflict.
Ukraine convincingly reconquering donbass is escalation.
As is retaking crimea.
Any military success on ukraine side, will force russia to escalate.
Any time you strengthen ukraine, russia has to escalate.

Goes to show that a nobel prize in physics doesn't make anyone a good stregist, tactitian or statesman.


I think Ukraine would continue using its manpower to defend itself regardless of whether it had only T-72s, 10 extra Leopards or 200 extra Leopards. If Ukrainians didn't receive any weapons, they would still try to defend Bakhmut, Avdiivka and whatever town Russia would target next. I wouldn't say it's an escalation if the sides will continue to fight for south eastern Ukraine and the only thing that changes is the side making progress.toward their goal.

I find the belief that Russia is happy with what it took and has no desire to keep attacking very naive. The only reason they're not pushing forward more aggressively is that they're unable replenish their losses fast enough to maintain a higher pace of combat.


Exactly. Putin would push for Kiev if he could, and either annex Ukraine, or annex some parts and set up a puppet regime in the rest. That was what Russia has attempted in the beginning of the war, and there is no reason to assume that given the chance, they wouldn't do that now.

This escalation talk is silly. Putin has exactly one card he hasn't played yet, and that is nuclear weapons. He won't use those (except as a threat) because that would be suicidal and not actually help achieve any goals. Russia is sending as many men and weapons into Ukraine as it can muster.

The goal for the west should be to make Russia lose, make them return all of the occupied parts of Ukraine. We should not do that for Ukraine, but for our selves. A world order where countries randomly attack their neighbours because they feel stronger is fucking scary. We should do anything we can to prevent that from being established as normal. Making Russia lose hard here is the only way to make sure no one else tries for a while.

The clear message to any imperialist dictator should be that if you attack your weaker neighbour, they will get supplied, and you will lose.
He does have full mobilisation, which might be the only thing that Russians are scared the crazy man could do.
What use is full mobilisation if you can't supply them? And runs a risk of the country actually revolting (tho a slim chance at best)

Russia in their own view of the world are not at war. The possibilities for siezing production, forcing labour, drafting soldiers will get increased immensly if they turn their "special military operation" into full scale war effort. The majority of the population and economy is not at full scale war operation.

To think that russia is almost beat, or incapable of upping their efforts, or has no cards left to play is underestimating your opponent. Rts enthusiasts of all people should know where that leads.

Their leaders literally say that they’re at war nightly on tv.

Might want to recheck your translation on that.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 01 2024 20:43 GMT
#13417
--- Nuked ---
Branch.AUT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Austria853 Posts
April 02 2024 07:56 GMT
#13418
On April 02 2024 05:43 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2024 05:17 Branch.AUT wrote:
On April 02 2024 05:01 KwarK wrote:
On April 02 2024 03:33 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:52 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:41 0x64 wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:36 Simberto wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:14 Sent. wrote:
On March 29 2024 06:39 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 28 2024 19:51 Sent. wrote:
I disagree with the claim that giving Ukraine more weapons counts as "escalation". We're just giving them stuff to help them do what they are already doing. Escalation would be something that opens a new aspect of the conflict, like a deep invasion into Russia or giving Ukraine nuclear weapons (which in my opinion is an absurd idea by the way).

The last two years, ulraine got just enough to stay even. Or reconquer important positions with a slight edge at most.
The never got overwhelming firepower to actually defeat russian forces convincingly.

Which is what that near-sighted PR letter from 31 nobel laureats is asking for. More military support, so ukraine can defeat russia.
Doesn't matter how you label it. That is escalating the arms conflict.
Ukraine convincingly reconquering donbass is escalation.
As is retaking crimea.
Any military success on ukraine side, will force russia to escalate.
Any time you strengthen ukraine, russia has to escalate.

Goes to show that a nobel prize in physics doesn't make anyone a good stregist, tactitian or statesman.


I think Ukraine would continue using its manpower to defend itself regardless of whether it had only T-72s, 10 extra Leopards or 200 extra Leopards. If Ukrainians didn't receive any weapons, they would still try to defend Bakhmut, Avdiivka and whatever town Russia would target next. I wouldn't say it's an escalation if the sides will continue to fight for south eastern Ukraine and the only thing that changes is the side making progress.toward their goal.

I find the belief that Russia is happy with what it took and has no desire to keep attacking very naive. The only reason they're not pushing forward more aggressively is that they're unable replenish their losses fast enough to maintain a higher pace of combat.


Exactly. Putin would push for Kiev if he could, and either annex Ukraine, or annex some parts and set up a puppet regime in the rest. That was what Russia has attempted in the beginning of the war, and there is no reason to assume that given the chance, they wouldn't do that now.

This escalation talk is silly. Putin has exactly one card he hasn't played yet, and that is nuclear weapons. He won't use those (except as a threat) because that would be suicidal and not actually help achieve any goals. Russia is sending as many men and weapons into Ukraine as it can muster.

The goal for the west should be to make Russia lose, make them return all of the occupied parts of Ukraine. We should not do that for Ukraine, but for our selves. A world order where countries randomly attack their neighbours because they feel stronger is fucking scary. We should do anything we can to prevent that from being established as normal. Making Russia lose hard here is the only way to make sure no one else tries for a while.

The clear message to any imperialist dictator should be that if you attack your weaker neighbour, they will get supplied, and you will lose.
He does have full mobilisation, which might be the only thing that Russians are scared the crazy man could do.
What use is full mobilisation if you can't supply them? And runs a risk of the country actually revolting (tho a slim chance at best)

Russia in their own view of the world are not at war. The possibilities for siezing production, forcing labour, drafting soldiers will get increased immensly if they turn their "special military operation" into full scale war effort. The majority of the population and economy is not at full scale war operation.

To think that russia is almost beat, or incapable of upping their efforts, or has no cards left to play is underestimating your opponent. Rts enthusiasts of all people should know where that leads.

Their leaders literally say that they’re at war nightly on tv.

Might want to recheck your translation on that.

It has not been long but they have stopped pretending it’s not a war.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/for-the-first-time-since-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-the-kremlin-says-it-is-at-war/

Thanks for pointing it out. I missed that.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7403 Posts
April 02 2024 11:58 GMT
#13419
On April 02 2024 05:43 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2024 05:17 Branch.AUT wrote:
On April 02 2024 05:01 KwarK wrote:
On April 02 2024 03:33 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:52 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:41 0x64 wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:36 Simberto wrote:
On March 29 2024 07:14 Sent. wrote:
On March 29 2024 06:39 Branch.AUT wrote:
On March 28 2024 19:51 Sent. wrote:
I disagree with the claim that giving Ukraine more weapons counts as "escalation". We're just giving them stuff to help them do what they are already doing. Escalation would be something that opens a new aspect of the conflict, like a deep invasion into Russia or giving Ukraine nuclear weapons (which in my opinion is an absurd idea by the way).

The last two years, ulraine got just enough to stay even. Or reconquer important positions with a slight edge at most.
The never got overwhelming firepower to actually defeat russian forces convincingly.

Which is what that near-sighted PR letter from 31 nobel laureats is asking for. More military support, so ukraine can defeat russia.
Doesn't matter how you label it. That is escalating the arms conflict.
Ukraine convincingly reconquering donbass is escalation.
As is retaking crimea.
Any military success on ukraine side, will force russia to escalate.
Any time you strengthen ukraine, russia has to escalate.

Goes to show that a nobel prize in physics doesn't make anyone a good stregist, tactitian or statesman.


I think Ukraine would continue using its manpower to defend itself regardless of whether it had only T-72s, 10 extra Leopards or 200 extra Leopards. If Ukrainians didn't receive any weapons, they would still try to defend Bakhmut, Avdiivka and whatever town Russia would target next. I wouldn't say it's an escalation if the sides will continue to fight for south eastern Ukraine and the only thing that changes is the side making progress.toward their goal.

I find the belief that Russia is happy with what it took and has no desire to keep attacking very naive. The only reason they're not pushing forward more aggressively is that they're unable replenish their losses fast enough to maintain a higher pace of combat.


Exactly. Putin would push for Kiev if he could, and either annex Ukraine, or annex some parts and set up a puppet regime in the rest. That was what Russia has attempted in the beginning of the war, and there is no reason to assume that given the chance, they wouldn't do that now.

This escalation talk is silly. Putin has exactly one card he hasn't played yet, and that is nuclear weapons. He won't use those (except as a threat) because that would be suicidal and not actually help achieve any goals. Russia is sending as many men and weapons into Ukraine as it can muster.

The goal for the west should be to make Russia lose, make them return all of the occupied parts of Ukraine. We should not do that for Ukraine, but for our selves. A world order where countries randomly attack their neighbours because they feel stronger is fucking scary. We should do anything we can to prevent that from being established as normal. Making Russia lose hard here is the only way to make sure no one else tries for a while.

The clear message to any imperialist dictator should be that if you attack your weaker neighbour, they will get supplied, and you will lose.
He does have full mobilisation, which might be the only thing that Russians are scared the crazy man could do.
What use is full mobilisation if you can't supply them? And runs a risk of the country actually revolting (tho a slim chance at best)

Russia in their own view of the world are not at war. The possibilities for siezing production, forcing labour, drafting soldiers will get increased immensly if they turn their "special military operation" into full scale war effort. The majority of the population and economy is not at full scale war operation.

To think that russia is almost beat, or incapable of upping their efforts, or has no cards left to play is underestimating your opponent. Rts enthusiasts of all people should know where that leads.

Their leaders literally say that they’re at war nightly on tv.

Might want to recheck your translation on that.

It has not been long but they have stopped pretending it’s not a war.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/for-the-first-time-since-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-the-kremlin-says-it-is-at-war/


Did that change anything in the Russian population? Or is this meant as groundwork for new mobilisations? Why now? Why at all?
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 05 2024 18:10 GMT
#13420
--- Nuked ---
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