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On March 24 2024 17:25 Manit0u wrote: An insight into why France is getting more involved:
France is diverting money and resources away from Africa because of the threat to its post colonial influence in Africa?
If they want to draw Russian resources away from Africa they need to put more pressure on Russia in Ukraine. To do that they need to drive more NATO resource into Ukraine, so Ukraine can pressure Russia more. And they can't get NATO to commit more without taking the lead on that themselves.
So yes France might be diverting resources away from Africa to force Russia to divert a multitude more away.
It doesn't pass any part of the common sense test. The size of the deployment required to stabilize French interests in North Africa vs Wagner is 1/100th of the size of the deployment required to stabilize Ukraine against the entire Russian army in Ukraine. Additionally North Africa doesn't have nukes, Russia does. Obviously Russia isn't making friends out of France by fucking with North Africa but take a second to think about the claim.
You're France and you're upset about a Wagner backed coup in North Africa. You can either: 1. Deploy 20k troops to North Africa to restore the previous French backed leader who will immediately legitimize your intervention. Your 20k expeditionary force will immediately win due to its overwhelming strength. ECOWAS will tell the world that it isn't colonialism. Your interests are protected. 2. Deploy 200k to Ukraine to fight the literal Russian army. You get bogged down in trench warfare and mines. You can't achieve any kind of victory due to the threat of nuclear redlines, only placing pressure on Russia through mutual attrition. Nothing in North Africa improves but you have a shitload of French troops in body bags and the cost is extremely high.
The argument that 2. is the best way to protect French interests in North Africa breaks down the moment you look at it. If France wanted to push Russia out of Africa they would send an expeditionary force to Africa.
A french intervention in Ukraine, would take the form of an air force support and never would involve infantry.
You can expect also some special ops as well.
All this is very unlikely, and as it has been stated before France has been very low in the list of donators, maybe they need to wiggle a bit. I am sure the French weapon industry is really craving to "test" those new toys they have been making.
20k professional solder would give a huge boost for the moral of the troops in Ukraine, but the logistics is unlikely to work.
France is diverting money and resources away from Africa because of the threat to its post colonial influence in Africa?
(1) France has enough resources and troops to keep their few thousand troops still in Africa stationed there and ALSO push for more direct involvement in Ukraine. (2) The point the video made wasn't really that the French had a choice on whether they kept troops in Mali or Niger. The coups happened and the new governments established themselves. Then told the French troops to fuck off. The French aren't voluntarily pulling out of the Sahel, they're being forced to.
And add the they told them to fuck off at the same time as hundreds of Wagner troops arrived. So France is slowly understanding that they can't be the stabilising force in Africa, and will have hard time to protect economical interest.
Of course, France can have the weight to change the balance of the conflict, Any modern army in Europe could. The price is just too high. Might as well just Nuke russia and be done with the shit world they want to create. May the cockroach win.
I think the goal they might want to achieve in Africa is to put pressure on Russia, have Wagner fail in Africa and let the fanatics roll over their former colonies so they can come back in force, "save them" and say "See? It wasn't so bad under our thumb. Wanna come back?"
This is pure speculation but I could definitely see it go like that.
On March 25 2024 05:05 0x64 wrote: A french intervention in Ukraine, would take the form of an air force support and never would involve infantry.
You can expect also some special ops as well.
All this is very unlikely, and as it has been stated before France has been very low in the list of donators, maybe they need to wiggle a bit. I am sure the French weapon industry is really craving to "test" those new toys they have been making.
20k professional solder would give a huge boost for the moral of the troops in Ukraine, but the logistics is unlikely to work.
Even if they deploy infantry it would be like deploy infantry on the border with Belarus to free up Ukrainian troops to go to the front line
On March 25 2024 13:28 iopq wrote: Even if they deploy infantry it would be like deploy infantry on the border with Belarus to free up Ukrainian troops to go to the front line
It's possible that Ukraine already sent their least combat-ready forces there because this direction is currently safe and Ukrainse needs all of their combat-fit forces on the eastern front. If this is correct, sending these troops to the front line might not bring a lot of value.
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
That chechens, tajiiks and islamists hate Russia so much that they travel to other peoples war in order to figth them is not the point you think you are making...
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland
It's not how irony works, you moron.
And yes, I deliberately, gladly and remorselessly call him a moron. It's the least harsh languege I have to guys like him. Gladly confess to OPEN hostility.
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
That chechens, tajiiks and islamists hate Russia so much that they travel to other peoples war in order to figth them is not the point you think you are making...
Contrary to popular belief, islamic fundamentalists, rapists and murderers should not love your country and enjoy the same rights as law abiding citizens. Harboring and aiding terrorists just because they currently are not murdering your citizens is also a negative
This time Zeo is right. That was a reason why NATO attacked Afganistan. If any of those ever were proven terrorist activity, they should be arrested no matter what.
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
That chechens, tajiiks and islamists hate Russia so much that they travel to other peoples war in order to figth them is not the point you think you are making...
Contrary to popular belief, islamic fundamentalists, rapists and murderers should not love your country and enjoy the same rights as law abiding citizens. Harboring and aiding terrorists just because they currently are not murdering your citizens is also a negative
Not sure who is harboring terrorists, but talking in abstract terms: there's also such a thing as the law, and the presumption of innocence. Just because some dude on the internet claims someone is a terrorist doesn't make it so.
Also, does this only go for islamic terrorists, or do you feel as strongly about other war criminals as well?
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
That chechens, tajiiks and islamists hate Russia so much that they travel to other peoples war in order to figth them is not the point you think you are making...
Contrary to popular belief, islamic fundamentalists, rapists and murderers should not love your country and enjoy the same rights as law abiding citizens. Harboring and aiding terrorists just because they currently are not murdering your citizens is also a negative
Kadyrov's Chechnya is an Islamist hellhole but that doesn't seem to bother you. ;-)
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
That chechens, tajiiks and islamists hate Russia so much that they travel to other peoples war in order to figth them is not the point you think you are making...
Contrary to popular belief, islamic fundamentalists, rapists and murderers should not love your country and enjoy the same rights as law abiding citizens. Harboring and aiding terrorists just because they currently are not murdering your citizens is also a negative
Not sure who is harboring terrorists, but talking in abstract terms: there's also such a thing as the law, and the presumption of innocence. Just because some dude on the internet claims someone is a terrorist doesn't make it so.
Also, does this only go for islamic terrorists, or do you feel as strongly about other war criminals as well?
War criminals are a very grey area. One mans war criminal is another mans nobel peace prize laureate.
Active and openly terrorist cells planning attacks against the civilian population of neighbouring countries should be destroyed by the state they are currently in. Dont care if they are communist, islamists, eco-terrorists, fascists whatever.
In this case the Tornado unit is litterally a gang of armed criminals and thugs that were useful to the Ukrainian governent in 2014-2015 before the UKR army got its shit together. The Kiev government then cracked down on them because they were as i mentioned a group of criminals that raped and looted during peace time.
All of the members of Tornado that were convicted of rape and murder where then released from jail and sent to the front in March 2022. They are quite litterally the bottom of the barrel of Ukrainian society and their incorporating of jihadists and terrorists is not ideological, rather a means to an end (chaos).
If these people enter your country there is no way your countries intelligence community does not know about them. Who they are and what they have done. If a British citizen was a jihadist volunteer in Syria, when that person enters France, the French know who he is, the French pay attention to what that person is doing.
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
That chechens, tajiiks and islamists hate Russia so much that they travel to other peoples war in order to figth them is not the point you think you are making...
Contrary to popular belief, islamic fundamentalists, rapists and murderers should not love your country and enjoy the same rights as law abiding citizens. Harboring and aiding terrorists just because they currently are not murdering your citizens is also a negative
Not sure who is harboring terrorists, but talking in abstract terms: there's also such a thing as the law, and the presumption of innocence. Just because some dude on the internet claims someone is a terrorist doesn't make it so.
Also, does this only go for islamic terrorists, or do you feel as strongly about other war criminals as well?
War criminals are a very grey area. One mans war criminal is another mans nobel peace prize laureate.
Active and openly terrorist cells planning attacks against the civilian population of neighbouring countries should be destroyed by the state they are currently in. Dont care if they are communist, islamists, eco-terrorists, fascists whatever.
In this case the Tornado unit is litterally a gang of armed criminals and thugs that were useful to the Ukrainian governent in 2014-2015 before the UKR army got its shit together. The Kiev government then cracked down on them because they were as i mentioned a group of criminals that raped and looted during peace time.
All of the members of Tornado that were convicted of rape and murder where then released from jail and sent to the front in March 2022. They are quite litterally the bottom of the barrel of Ukrainian society and their incorporating of jihadists and terrorists is not ideological, rather a means to an end (chaos).
If these people enter your country there is no way your countries intelligence community does not know about them. Who they are and what they have done. If a British citizen was a jihadist volunteer in Syria, when that person enters France, the French know who he is, the French pay attention to what that person is doing.
Isn't this the same as Russia did with sending prisoners to the Wagner unit as canonfodder for the frontline?
On March 24 2024 06:27 KwarK wrote: US: ISIS is planning an attack Russia: There will be no attack *ISIS attacks* ISIS: We claim responsibility Ukraine: We didn’t do it Russia: How could gay Ukrainian NATO do this to us?
Russia had no major terror attacks in nearly a decade and has an all-time high relations with Muslim world, and now suddenly ISIS (which barely even exists these days) decides to strike in a very specific and convenient time for Ukraine when its defenses and morale is collapsing, incursion into Russia failed, not to mention it wasn't ISIS style execution at all, when captured they were shitting their pants and didn't want to die
You're right. It looks like another false flag terrorist attack by Russia.
Ironic coming from Poland, guess you didn't know that Tajik extremist party (which is banned even in its homeland) is registered in your country. This was also nationality of perpetrators in Moscow shooting, who were also fleeing in the direction of Ukraine, funny how that works right? Tatar journalist did a deep dive into this.
That chechens, tajiiks and islamists hate Russia so much that they travel to other peoples war in order to figth them is not the point you think you are making...
Contrary to popular belief, islamic fundamentalists, rapists and murderers should not love your country and enjoy the same rights as law abiding citizens. Harboring and aiding terrorists just because they currently are not murdering your citizens is also a negative
Not sure who is harboring terrorists, but talking in abstract terms: there's also such a thing as the law, and the presumption of innocence. Just because some dude on the internet claims someone is a terrorist doesn't make it so.
Also, does this only go for islamic terrorists, or do you feel as strongly about other war criminals as well?
War criminals are a very grey area. One mans war criminal is another mans nobel peace prize laureate.
Active and openly terrorist cells planning attacks against the civilian population of neighbouring countries should be destroyed by the state they are currently in. Dont care if they are communist, islamists, eco-terrorists, fascists whatever.
In this case the Tornado unit is litterally a gang of armed criminals and thugs that were useful to the Ukrainian governent in 2014-2015 before the UKR army got its shit together. The Kiev government then cracked down on them because they were as i mentioned a group of criminals that raped and looted during peace time.
All of the members of Tornado that were convicted of rape and murder where then released from jail and sent to the front in March 2022. They are quite litterally the bottom of the barrel of Ukrainian society and their incorporating of jihadists and terrorists is not ideological, rather a means to an end (chaos).
If these people enter your country there is no way your countries intelligence community does not know about them. Who they are and what they have done. If a British citizen was a jihadist volunteer in Syria, when that person enters France, the French know who he is, the French pay attention to what that person is doing.
I'm glad you agree that the Russian military should be destroyed, finally some common ground!
"To drastically increase assistance to Ukraine. Ukraine must win, not just ‘not lose’. Timely aid will reduce the loss of human lives and help drive out the aggressor from the Ukrainian soil. Putin’s loss in the act of military aggression will be viewed as a moral win for millions of Russians, emboldening their hopes for a democratic future and mobilizing their anti-war movement.
To uphold human rights and support democratic opposition in Russia. The global community must unite to protect political prisoners currently undergoing torture in Russia. The lives of opposition leaders Vladimir Kara-Murza, Ilya Yashin, Lilia Chanysheva, and many others are in imminent danger.
To enhance support for Russian citizens who face the risk of repression due to their democratic and anti-war political beliefs and require asylum.
To back Russian democratic anti-Putin organizations, which includes supporting independent Russian media, whose role in driving regime change is critical.
To delegitimize Putin’s illegal hold on power in Russia. Despite its propaganda, Putin’s regime desperately seeks acknowledgment from the global community. Refusing to acknowledge Putin’s reelection by world leaders will send a powerful message that the world can no longer consider him a ‘partner’."
I'm with those guys. It maybe won't change anything, but apart from heroizing Nawalny a bit much it's a good statement. We cannot have this war going on for ever and Putin needs to loose.
"To drastically increase assistance to Ukraine. Ukraine must win, not just ‘not lose’. Timely aid will reduce the loss of human lives and help drive out the aggressor from the Ukrainian soil. Putin’s loss in the act of military aggression will be viewed as a moral win for millions of Russians, emboldening their hopes for a democratic future and mobilizing their anti-war movement.
To uphold human rights and support democratic opposition in Russia. The global community must unite to protect political prisoners currently undergoing torture in Russia. The lives of opposition leaders Vladimir Kara-Murza, Ilya Yashin, Lilia Chanysheva, and many others are in imminent danger.
To enhance support for Russian citizens who face the risk of repression due to their democratic and anti-war political beliefs and require asylum.
To back Russian democratic anti-Putin organizations, which includes supporting independent Russian media, whose role in driving regime change is critical.
To delegitimize Putin’s illegal hold on power in Russia. Despite its propaganda, Putin’s regime desperately seeks acknowledgment from the global community. Refusing to acknowledge Putin’s reelection by world leaders will send a powerful message that the world can no longer consider him a ‘partner’."
I'm with those guys. It maybe won't change anything, but apart from heroizing Nawalny a bit much it's a good statement. We cannot have this war going on for ever and Putin needs to loose.
While I agree with the sentiment that aggressive war is bad, this letter reads like a bunch of wishful thinking. It reeks of the like-tivism that plagued facebook ten years ago.
Putin cannot loose this war. Russia cannot loose this war. Not for some dumb patriotic explanation. But because they know they will always have the arms advantage
Escalating the arms race ends with nuclear weaponry. Of which russia has much, and the other weapons nations will give ukraine none. Escalating the conflict with more or better arms is the dumbest possible idea. I am astonished that renowned scientists on this list would so carelessly condemn the population of ukrainian cities to fiery death.
"To drastically increase assistance to Ukraine. Ukraine must win, not just ‘not lose’. Timely aid will reduce the loss of human lives and help drive out the aggressor from the Ukrainian soil. Putin’s loss in the act of military aggression will be viewed as a moral win for millions of Russians, emboldening their hopes for a democratic future and mobilizing their anti-war movement.
To uphold human rights and support democratic opposition in Russia. The global community must unite to protect political prisoners currently undergoing torture in Russia. The lives of opposition leaders Vladimir Kara-Murza, Ilya Yashin, Lilia Chanysheva, and many others are in imminent danger.
To enhance support for Russian citizens who face the risk of repression due to their democratic and anti-war political beliefs and require asylum.
To back Russian democratic anti-Putin organizations, which includes supporting independent Russian media, whose role in driving regime change is critical.
To delegitimize Putin’s illegal hold on power in Russia. Despite its propaganda, Putin’s regime desperately seeks acknowledgment from the global community. Refusing to acknowledge Putin’s reelection by world leaders will send a powerful message that the world can no longer consider him a ‘partner’."
I'm with those guys. It maybe won't change anything, but apart from heroizing Nawalny a bit much it's a good statement. We cannot have this war going on for ever and Putin needs to loose.
While I agree with the sentiment that aggressive war is bad, this letter reads like a bunch of wishful thinking. It reeks of the like-tivism that plagued facebook ten years ago.
Putin cannot loose this war. Russia cannot loose this war. Not for some dumb patriotic explanation. But because they know they will always have the arms advantage
Escalating the arms race ends with nuclear weaponry. Of which russia has much, and the other weapons nations will give ukraine none. Escalating the conflict with more or better arms is the dumbest possible idea. I am astonished that renowned scientists on this list would so carelessly condemn the population of ukrainian cities to fiery death.
There is no way Russia would escalate to the use of nukes to win in Ukraine, no one in the world is going to allow that Pandora's box to be opened (again).
Ukraine does not threaten Russia's sovereignty and continued existence. They are not going to march on Moscow. If Russia gets pushed out of Ukraine its going to be just another frozen conflict that never officially ended.
"To drastically increase assistance to Ukraine. Ukraine must win, not just ‘not lose’. Timely aid will reduce the loss of human lives and help drive out the aggressor from the Ukrainian soil. Putin’s loss in the act of military aggression will be viewed as a moral win for millions of Russians, emboldening their hopes for a democratic future and mobilizing their anti-war movement.
To uphold human rights and support democratic opposition in Russia. The global community must unite to protect political prisoners currently undergoing torture in Russia. The lives of opposition leaders Vladimir Kara-Murza, Ilya Yashin, Lilia Chanysheva, and many others are in imminent danger.
To enhance support for Russian citizens who face the risk of repression due to their democratic and anti-war political beliefs and require asylum.
To back Russian democratic anti-Putin organizations, which includes supporting independent Russian media, whose role in driving regime change is critical.
To delegitimize Putin’s illegal hold on power in Russia. Despite its propaganda, Putin’s regime desperately seeks acknowledgment from the global community. Refusing to acknowledge Putin’s reelection by world leaders will send a powerful message that the world can no longer consider him a ‘partner’."
I'm with those guys. It maybe won't change anything, but apart from heroizing Nawalny a bit much it's a good statement. We cannot have this war going on for ever and Putin needs to loose.
While I agree with the sentiment that aggressive war is bad, this letter reads like a bunch of wishful thinking. It reeks of the like-tivism that plagued facebook ten years ago.
Putin cannot loose this war. Russia cannot loose this war. Not for some dumb patriotic explanation. But because they know they will always have the arms advantage
Escalating the arms race ends with nuclear weaponry. Of which russia has much, and the other weapons nations will give ukraine none. Escalating the conflict with more or better arms is the dumbest possible idea. I am astonished that renowned scientists on this list would so carelessly condemn the population of ukrainian cities to fiery death.
Reminds me of the UN council meeting just a short while ago that voted to demand Israel to stop bombing Gaza. After the vote, the council chamber erupted in applause.. They did nothing but made some vague wishful thinking and then patted themselves on their back and applauded for a job well done. A bunch of absolutely worthless narcissists
Words are worthless. Ukraine isn't going to win this war on wishes and vague demands with zero ability to back it up. Either you do something, or you stfu. Your words are not important, and you are not important for saying them. Only your actions matters
Edit: By "you" I mean these self important people, not anyone here of course.
On a bit of a pedantic sidenote; "Lose" is what we all hope Putin is going to do. "Loose" is what my butthole is after a bowl of chilli
"To drastically increase assistance to Ukraine. Ukraine must win, not just ‘not lose’. Timely aid will reduce the loss of human lives and help drive out the aggressor from the Ukrainian soil. Putin’s loss in the act of military aggression will be viewed as a moral win for millions of Russians, emboldening their hopes for a democratic future and mobilizing their anti-war movement.
To uphold human rights and support democratic opposition in Russia. The global community must unite to protect political prisoners currently undergoing torture in Russia. The lives of opposition leaders Vladimir Kara-Murza, Ilya Yashin, Lilia Chanysheva, and many others are in imminent danger.
To enhance support for Russian citizens who face the risk of repression due to their democratic and anti-war political beliefs and require asylum.
To back Russian democratic anti-Putin organizations, which includes supporting independent Russian media, whose role in driving regime change is critical.
To delegitimize Putin’s illegal hold on power in Russia. Despite its propaganda, Putin’s regime desperately seeks acknowledgment from the global community. Refusing to acknowledge Putin’s reelection by world leaders will send a powerful message that the world can no longer consider him a ‘partner’."
I'm with those guys. It maybe won't change anything, but apart from heroizing Nawalny a bit much it's a good statement. We cannot have this war going on for ever and Putin needs to loose.
While I agree with the sentiment that aggressive war is bad, this letter reads like a bunch of wishful thinking. It reeks of the like-tivism that plagued facebook ten years ago.
Putin cannot loose this war. Russia cannot loose this war. Not for some dumb patriotic explanation. But because they know they will always have the arms advantage
Escalating the arms race ends with nuclear weaponry. Of which russia has much, and the other weapons nations will give ukraine none. Escalating the conflict with more or better arms is the dumbest possible idea. I am astonished that renowned scientists on this list would so carelessly condemn the population of ukrainian cities to fiery death.
I guess this is why they are Nobel Laureates and you aren't. The war is not going to escalate into using nuclear weaponry. No one can use them and the nuclear bluff has been called a lot of times already. Russia cannot escalate much further and they don't have an infinite weapon and ammunition glitch, nor do they have infinite industrial capacity. They are straining as-is and quite a few of their capabilities have been degraded to near uselessness over the course of the war.
Arming Ukraine further is the only feasible way to shortening the conflict short of Russia pulling out suddenly, simply by making the war all the more costly for Russia to the point where they cannot continue it anymore. The message to Russia needs to be clear and simple: You are not going to win the war no matter what. Ukraine is not going to keel over and surrender, it's a nation that is fighting to the death because that's what surrender means. NATO is not going to be content with that either because the last thing they want to do is give Russia the signal that they can continue their wars of conquest. Russian dreams of empire have to die in the fields of Ukraine. I wish they had done that earlier but if there is anything that we should have learned from the last 16 years or so is that you cannot appease Russia just as you couldn't appease Hitler.
This has been discussed to death a dozen times already, there are lengthy and well-researched videos on this topic and I hope that people who advocate for pacifism in the face of aggression educate themselves a little further.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/W7hJDyO.png)
