• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:28
CEST 20:28
KST 03:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy3uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event14Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple5SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments5[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event Rogue Talks: "Koreans could dominate again" Lambo Talks: The Future of SC2 and more... RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) ByuN vs TaeJa Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Global Tourney for College Students in September RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking! BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL Season 20 Ro24 Groups
Tourneys
KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gaming After Dark: Poor Slee…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 656 users

Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 64

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 62 63 64 65 66 834 Next
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
March 21 2022 19:34 GMT
#1261
Doesn't look good for the shopping mall story. This is supposed to be a video of a rocket launcher parking there after it launched its payload...

I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 21 2022 20:17 GMT
#1262
So basically a French military reaction force, for now. Can't see any other country in Europe being of such strength at this point in time, this also brings up a very dangerous scenario. Say Ukraine is victorious and joins the EU, Russia attacks again. And an EU soldier is killed, what is to stop said country from triggering article 5?

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42747 Posts
March 21 2022 20:33 GMT
#1263
The assumption is presumably that nobody would be stupid enough to attack a nuclear alliance. Europe doesn’t necessarily need NATO to have a credible defence vs Russia either. France is a nuclear power.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Chewbacca.
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-21 20:52:22
March 21 2022 20:45 GMT
#1264
I think article 5 can only be triggered if a member's forces were killed on NATO territory. So if Ukraine joined the EU, and EU forces were killed in Ukraine, you couldn't invoke article 5?

Edit: I guess here is the exact text:

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

1) on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

2) on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.

I guess I don't know if any of the original members of NATO had troops stationed in the area that is now Ukraine, or if that would even be deemed applicable since Ukraine wasn't independent at that time?
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9198 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-21 20:50:53
March 21 2022 20:50 GMT
#1265
First part of Article 6:
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
You're now breathing manually
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
March 21 2022 21:50 GMT
#1266
On March 22 2022 05:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So basically a French military reaction force, for now. Can't see any other country in Europe being of such strength at this point in time, this also brings up a very dangerous scenario. Say Ukraine is victorious and joins the EU, Russia attacks again. And an EU soldier is killed, what is to stop said country from triggering article 5?

https://twitter.com/edgarsrinkevics/status/1505923460110950401

This may actually be the worse thing for Ukraine as now Russia will be against them entering the EU either... (not that in their state it was much realistical)
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria818 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-21 22:23:59
March 21 2022 22:12 GMT
#1267
Not that I see 'Z' symbol in real life, but this gives me an idea how to counter Z followers. Simply say "пиZдец" or "piZdets" to mock their "special operation". Its English equivalent is "oh shit" or "things went south". :D

It makes you wonder though why they use a Latin letter when they're so keen on preserving Russian language in Ukraine! It really shows their true face...

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


And here is a perfect English word to describe them: Zealots. As in fanatic people.

Or, if you want to be even more useful than an internet battle, just donate to Ukrainian humanitarian fund
KaiserJohan
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1808 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-21 23:07:26
March 21 2022 23:07 GMT
#1268
I found this day-by-day reports quite useful: https://understandingwar.org/
Contains military movements, actions and analysis.
England will fight to the last American
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1920 Posts
March 22 2022 08:08 GMT
#1269
I was thinking of using Z for "Zelenskyj" too.

I was very impressed of how Trump was able to turn "Fake News" into his advantage. Hijacking "Z" to support Ukraine can probably be done too, but time might be running out as the symbol is quickly getting solidified as pro-war.
Buff the siegetank
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15328 Posts
March 22 2022 08:22 GMT
#1270
On March 22 2022 04:34 deacon.frost wrote:
Doesn't look good for the shopping mall story. This is supposed to be a video of a rocket launcher parking there after it launched its payload...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiVKzfaGKKo

I don't find it particularly hard to believe that there has been a military vehicle next to the mall. But holy shit that looks like some serious overkill. If this is the standard Russian approach to urban combat, nothing will be left of Kyiv.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
mounteast0
Profile Joined January 2020
59 Posts
March 22 2022 09:43 GMT
#1271
On March 22 2022 17:22 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2022 04:34 deacon.frost wrote:
Doesn't look good for the shopping mall story. This is supposed to be a video of a rocket launcher parking there after it launched its payload...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiVKzfaGKKo

I don't find it particularly hard to believe that there has been a military vehicle next to the mall. But holy shit that looks like some serious overkill. If this is the standard Russian approach to urban combat, nothing will be left of Kyiv.



I think the shopping mall story implied Russ Army indiscriminately bombing the town & civilian, at least that was my impression / perception I would have got if I take the report at face value.

If the video does show military presence next to the mall, then the context changes, may be a bit, may be significantly.

I think that is the point deacon.frost is trying to get to.
Lwerewolf
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria78 Posts
March 22 2022 09:51 GMT
#1272
It's by far not the only story that has implied this, even though the "indiscriminate bombing" tends to mostly be done with artillery (rocket & "conventional") and strikecraft/helicopters (yes, helicopters, tilting back and launching missiles for extra range).
calh
Profile Joined March 2013
537 Posts
March 22 2022 10:05 GMT
#1273
On March 22 2022 17:22 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2022 04:34 deacon.frost wrote:
Doesn't look good for the shopping mall story. This is supposed to be a video of a rocket launcher parking there after it launched its payload...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiVKzfaGKKo

I don't find it particularly hard to believe that there has been a military vehicle next to the mall. But holy shit that looks like some serious overkill. If this is the standard Russian approach to urban combat, nothing will be left of Kyiv.


I think they used a ballistic missile to get at the underground storage and part of the explosion was the stored ammunition. According to the Russian side anyway.
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
March 22 2022 10:15 GMT
#1274
All of that only matters if you can jump over the bit where the entire war is illegitimate.

If your timeline begins on feb 24th, then those trucks might make the mall a legitimate target for an act of war. But for the rest of us who do remember that world existed before the current invasion launched, the difference is between "the attack was an act of unjust war" and "the attack was an act of unjust war AND it was also against civilian infrastructure."
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-22 12:12:28
March 22 2022 12:09 GMT
#1275
On March 22 2022 17:22 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2022 04:34 deacon.frost wrote:
Doesn't look good for the shopping mall story. This is supposed to be a video of a rocket launcher parking there after it launched its payload...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiVKzfaGKKo

I don't find it particularly hard to believe that there has been a military vehicle next to the mall. But holy shit that looks like some serious overkill. If this is the standard Russian approach to urban combat, nothing will be left of Kyiv.

If there were rockets stored, part of the explosian can be that. According to the Russia that was an ammo depot. Which makes sense - that's why the rocket launcher went there after the attack.

Also if you use a civilian building as a shelter for the army how much civilian is it?

Also also that's why they hit it with a rocket and not a stupid bomb - so it was a precise hit. And they hit it at the night to limit the civilian casualties.

I mean you can't be more civil about this hit. It was a precise hit based on a proper scouting and it was done to limit the civilian casualties to the minimum. This was a US level hit.

At least once Russia did something properly in this stupid war. (well, at least what is confirmed)

On March 22 2022 19:15 Oukka wrote:
All of that only matters if you can jump over the bit where the entire war is illegitimate.

If your timeline begins on feb 24th, then those trucks might make the mall a legitimate target for an act of war. But for the rest of us who do remember that world existed before the current invasion launched, the difference is between "the attack was an act of unjust war" and "the attack was an act of unjust war AND it was also against civilian infrastructure."

But the fact is that Ukraine is at war with Russia and if they demand for Russia to use conventions they shall use them as well
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
March 22 2022 13:02 GMT
#1276
On March 22 2022 05:33 KwarK wrote:
The assumption is presumably that nobody would be stupid enough to attack a nuclear alliance. Europe doesn’t necessarily need NATO to have a credible defence vs Russia either. France is a nuclear power.

France is the only autonomous nuclear power in Europe as england cannot launch theirs without the US approval afaik.
Which makes the coming french elections crucial for Europe and for Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6214 Posts
March 22 2022 13:15 GMT
#1277
The UK can launch their nukes without permission from the US. It's just that the missiles are made in the US and there's joint maintenance. Turning over decision making for a nuclear launch to a foreign state (even when allied) makes no sense.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11519 Posts
March 22 2022 13:16 GMT
#1278
On March 22 2022 22:15 RvB wrote:
The UK can launch their nukes without permission from the US. It's just that the missiles are made in the US and there's joint maintenance. Turning over decision making for a nuclear launch to a foreign state (even when allied) makes no sense.


Maybe there is some confusion with the US nukes which are stationed in Germany, which obviously can only be launched by the US?
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6214 Posts
March 22 2022 13:51 GMT
#1279
On March 22 2022 22:16 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2022 22:15 RvB wrote:
The UK can launch their nukes without permission from the US. It's just that the missiles are made in the US and there's joint maintenance. Turning over decision making for a nuclear launch to a foreign state (even when allied) makes no sense.


Maybe there is some confusion with the US nukes which are stationed in Germany, which obviously can only be launched by the US?

I don't think so. Those are smaller nukes and there are more NATO allies which have them so that they have a stake in the nuclear programme as well without getting nukes (Netherlands ,Turkey and some other countries have them as well). The confusion comes from the fact that the UK programme relies on the US for many things. So while the UK can launch it's own nukes it wouldn't have a programme for long if cooperation with the US stopped.

The UK’s nuclear deterrent is operationally independent. Only the Prime Minister can authorise the use of our nuclear weapons even if deployed as part of a NATO response.

www.gov.uk

Without the cooperation of the US, says the report of the independent all-party Trident Commission, the life expectancy of the UK's nuclear capability could be measured in months.

The commission's high level panel says it agrees that Britain's deterrent is "a hostage to American goodwill".

"If the United States were to withdraw their cooperation completely, the UK nuclear capability would probably have a life expectancy measured in months rather than years".

Not only are Britain's Trident missiles in a common pool shared with the US and maintained in Kings Bay, Georgia, its nuclear warheads are designed and maintained at the Atomic Weapons Establishment at Aldermaston with the help of US know-how, as recently declassified documents on the UK-US Mutual Defence Agreement confirmed.

Tuesday's report noted: "The UK is dependent on the United States for many component parts of the guidance and re-entry vehicle, and for the Trident ballistic missile system itself".

www.theguardian.com
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
March 22 2022 13:57 GMT
#1280
My mistake, they can launch theirs but cannot maintain nor build new ones ?
If it's just building new ones nbd as the world will be glassed. Anyway, lots of french candidates are talking about withdrawing from NATO and/or the EU. Which would have dramatic effects on both of those entities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Prev 1 62 63 64 65 66 834 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
17:00
S2: Europe Server Qualifier
CranKy Ducklings512
iHatsuTV 16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .231
BRAT_OK 125
ProTech81
Rex 75
MindelVK 46
Stormgate
TKL 160
UpATreeSC121
Dota 2
Gorgc8447
Dendi1358
420jenkins301
Counter-Strike
fl0m2069
qojqva1874
pashabiceps571
Foxcn209
Other Games
Grubby731
ceh9618
Beastyqt473
B2W.Neo372
XaKoH 166
C9.Mang0152
ArmadaUGS150
Trikslyr53
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta14
• Reevou 5
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 2
• HerbMon 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis4850
League of Legends
• Jankos1702
• TFBlade618
Other Games
• imaqtpie1442
• Shiphtur325
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
5h 32m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
16h 32m
The PondCast
1d 15h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Online Event
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
SC Evo League
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
5 days
RotterdaM Event
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

StarCon 2025 Philadelphia
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.