|
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
Finland965 Posts
Several newspapers reporting that Zelensky has said that the first Abrams tanks have arrived in Ukraine.
From France24:
"Good news from Minister (of Defence) Umerov. Abrams are already in Ukraine and are being prepared to reinforce our brigades," he said on Telegram messaging app.
No mention when/if they'll be deployed to the front.
Looking forward to watching 7238 variations of the same clip over the next 6 months when one of them gets destroyed by enemy action.
|
|
|
On September 26 2023 01:21 hexhaven wrote:Several newspapers reporting that Zelensky has said that the first Abrams tanks have arrived in Ukraine. From France24: Show nested quote + "Good news from Minister (of Defence) Umerov. Abrams are already in Ukraine and are being prepared to reinforce our brigades," he said on Telegram messaging app. No mention when/if they'll be deployed to the front. Looking forward to watching 7238 variations of the same clip over the next 6 months when one of them gets destroyed by enemy action.
I'm super confused. Haven't Abrams M1A2 been in Ukraine, fighting on the front for months now?
|
On September 26 2023 00:16 JimmiC wrote:Russia has claimed one soldier died, Ukraine is now saying they did kill the Black Sea fleets commander and 34 officers. Based on past contradictions of reports and that Russia moved its fleet out of the port Id bet the truth lies much much closer to the Ukrainian numbers . Show nested quote + Ukraine has claimed that the commander of Russia's Black Sea Feet, Admiral Viktor Sokolov, has been killed in the Ukrainian attack in Sevastopol on Friday.
"After the hit of the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, 34 officers were killed, including the commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet," the Ukrainian Special Operations Forces said in an update Monday, adding that more than 100 other Russian servicemen were wounded.
Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet headquarters, is one of the largest cities on the Crimean peninsula and was illegally annexed by Moscow’s forces in 2014.
CNN cannot independently confirm Ukraine's claims about Solokov or the number of casualties.
CNN has reached out to the Russian Ministry of Defense for comment.
Moscow has said that one serviceman is missing as a result of Ukraine's attack on Sevastopol.
This would the first Russian fleet commander killed since the Russo-Japanese war in 1904... not counting the other 34 officers they say were killed. One has to wonder what disarray the Russian Black Sea navy is in right now.
|
United States44289 Posts
How would you tell if the Russian navy is in disarray?
|
On September 26 2023 02:41 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2023 01:21 hexhaven wrote:Several newspapers reporting that Zelensky has said that the first Abrams tanks have arrived in Ukraine. From France24: "Good news from Minister (of Defence) Umerov. Abrams are already in Ukraine and are being prepared to reinforce our brigades," he said on Telegram messaging app. No mention when/if they'll be deployed to the front. Looking forward to watching 7238 variations of the same clip over the next 6 months when one of them gets destroyed by enemy action. I'm super confused. Haven't Abrams M1A2 been in Ukraine, fighting on the front for months now?
Are you confusing it with the Leopard?
|
On September 26 2023 03:16 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2023 02:41 Acrofales wrote:On September 26 2023 01:21 hexhaven wrote:Several newspapers reporting that Zelensky has said that the first Abrams tanks have arrived in Ukraine. From France24: "Good news from Minister (of Defence) Umerov. Abrams are already in Ukraine and are being prepared to reinforce our brigades," he said on Telegram messaging app. No mention when/if they'll be deployed to the front. Looking forward to watching 7238 variations of the same clip over the next 6 months when one of them gets destroyed by enemy action. I'm super confused. Haven't Abrams M1A2 been in Ukraine, fighting on the front for months now? Are you confusing it with the Leopard?
Or M2A3 Bradley? Or Challenger 2?
|
On September 26 2023 03:35 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2023 03:16 Excludos wrote:On September 26 2023 02:41 Acrofales wrote:On September 26 2023 01:21 hexhaven wrote:Several newspapers reporting that Zelensky has said that the first Abrams tanks have arrived in Ukraine. From France24: "Good news from Minister (of Defence) Umerov. Abrams are already in Ukraine and are being prepared to reinforce our brigades," he said on Telegram messaging app. No mention when/if they'll be deployed to the front. Looking forward to watching 7238 variations of the same clip over the next 6 months when one of them gets destroyed by enemy action. I'm super confused. Haven't Abrams M1A2 been in Ukraine, fighting on the front for months now? Are you confusing it with the Leopard? Or M2A3 Bradley? Or Challenger 2?
Clearly I was just confused. But how come it took so much longer to get the Abrams there than Leopards or Challengers? I somehow doubt shipping them across the Atlantic was the big holdup.
|
Those are newly manufactured ones of the export variant... because the US doesn't want to part with any of their like 8k stored ones, for no specified reasons, but suspected due to not wanting to give insight in their non-export version with its upgraded armor...
|
The lesson, pay your troops... especially your officers:
After missing their anticipated salary payments, Russian officers decided to leak sensitive information about Moscow's Black Sea Fleet to a Ukrainian partisan movement. The intelligence later paved the way for a devastating missile strike on the fleet's headquarters in the occupied Crimean peninsula, Ukrainian media reported.
Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post in a recent interview that they managed to gather information about high-ranking Russian commanders from officers who were frustrated by Moscow's failure to pay their salaries on time. The officers were financially compensated in exchange for the information, which was then passed along to state agencies and reportedly used to plan last week's attack on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters.
"Delays in payments alone do not force the military armed forces of the Russian Federation to go against the Russian authorities," a spokesperson for the partisan movement of Ukrainians and Tatars in Crimea (ATESH) told the Kyiv Post, which revealed details of the arrangement in a Monday report. "But the financial reward only helps them to decide on cooperation with the ATESH movement, it serves as an additional incentive."
Kyiv's forces on Friday bombarded the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters in Sevastopol, located on the southwestern edge of Crimea, with several Western-made Storm Shadow long-range cruise missiles. Videos and photographs of the attack showed the moment one of the missiles slammed into the building, as well as the major structural damage that the facility suffered as a result.
The Ukrainian military later said that it timed the strike to coincide with a meeting of Russia's naval leadership. On Monday, Kyiv's Special Operations Forces said 34 people were killed — including Adm. Viktor Sokolov, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet — and another 105 were injured. Insider was unable to immediately and independently confirm the claims.
It is not clear how much money was offered to the Russian officers, nor are the identities of these officers known. ATESH said they had access to activities of the Black Sea Fleet's leadership though. The group said information was passed to state agencies like the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Ukrainian Main Directorate of Intelligence (HUR), the latter of which confirmed to the Kyiv Post that it has worked with partisans to help target Russian positions around Crimea.
"The Russian military is well aware of the existence of the partisan movement and throw all their forces and means to suppress it and identify our agents," the ATESH spokesperson said. "The growing resistance among the Crimeans confuses them very much."
The strike on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters marked the latest in a string of Ukrainian attacks over the past few weeks targeting high-value Russian positions and assets around Crimea, which Kyiv has vowed to liberate from nearly a decade under Russian occupation.
These incursions include the destruction of multiple S-400 air-defense systems, attacks on an air base and on a command post belonging to the Black Sea Fleet, and a massive missile strike on a shipyard in Sevastopol. Western intelligence assessed that the assault damaged two ships while also delivering a long-term blow to Moscow's maritime logistics and operations, and Ukraine's military claimed dozens of Russian sailors were killed.
"Crimea will definitely be demilitarized and liberated," Mykhailo Podolyak, an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, wrote on social media after the Friday strikes on the headquarters. "Merchant ships will return to the Black Sea. And the Russian warships will eventually take their rightful place, turning into an iconic underwater museum for divers that will attract tourists from all over the world. To a free Ukrainian Crimea."
Source
|
On September 26 2023 06:19 mahrgell wrote:
Those are newly manufactured ones of the export variant... because the US doesn't want to part with any of their like 8k stored ones, for no specified reasons, but suspected due to not wanting to give insight in their non-export version with its upgraded armor...
Yep... Unfortunately the armor is baked into the tank, it's not an add-on. On the plus side, Ukraine is getting brand new, off the line ones which hopefully will have less mechanical problems. Aside from GMLRS rockets and 155mm artillery, it's the newest (most recently manufactured) stuff on the battlefield.
I would hope that the US would give more Bradleys though, there's no reason to not send more of them given how many the USA has in storage.
|
On September 26 2023 11:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:The lesson, pay your troops... especially your officers: Show nested quote +After missing their anticipated salary payments, Russian officers decided to leak sensitive information about Moscow's Black Sea Fleet to a Ukrainian partisan movement. The intelligence later paved the way for a devastating missile strike on the fleet's headquarters in the occupied Crimean peninsula, Ukrainian media reported.
Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post in a recent interview that they managed to gather information about high-ranking Russian commanders from officers who were frustrated by Moscow's failure to pay their salaries on time. The officers were financially compensated in exchange for the information, which was then passed along to state agencies and reportedly used to plan last week's attack on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters.
"Delays in payments alone do not force the military armed forces of the Russian Federation to go against the Russian authorities," a spokesperson for the partisan movement of Ukrainians and Tatars in Crimea (ATESH) told the Kyiv Post, which revealed details of the arrangement in a Monday report. "But the financial reward only helps them to decide on cooperation with the ATESH movement, it serves as an additional incentive."
Kyiv's forces on Friday bombarded the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters in Sevastopol, located on the southwestern edge of Crimea, with several Western-made Storm Shadow long-range cruise missiles. Videos and photographs of the attack showed the moment one of the missiles slammed into the building, as well as the major structural damage that the facility suffered as a result.
The Ukrainian military later said that it timed the strike to coincide with a meeting of Russia's naval leadership. On Monday, Kyiv's Special Operations Forces said 34 people were killed — including Adm. Viktor Sokolov, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet — and another 105 were injured. Insider was unable to immediately and independently confirm the claims.
It is not clear how much money was offered to the Russian officers, nor are the identities of these officers known. ATESH said they had access to activities of the Black Sea Fleet's leadership though. The group said information was passed to state agencies like the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Ukrainian Main Directorate of Intelligence (HUR), the latter of which confirmed to the Kyiv Post that it has worked with partisans to help target Russian positions around Crimea.
"The Russian military is well aware of the existence of the partisan movement and throw all their forces and means to suppress it and identify our agents," the ATESH spokesperson said. "The growing resistance among the Crimeans confuses them very much."
The strike on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters marked the latest in a string of Ukrainian attacks over the past few weeks targeting high-value Russian positions and assets around Crimea, which Kyiv has vowed to liberate from nearly a decade under Russian occupation.
These incursions include the destruction of multiple S-400 air-defense systems, attacks on an air base and on a command post belonging to the Black Sea Fleet, and a massive missile strike on a shipyard in Sevastopol. Western intelligence assessed that the assault damaged two ships while also delivering a long-term blow to Moscow's maritime logistics and operations, and Ukraine's military claimed dozens of Russian sailors were killed.
"Crimea will definitely be demilitarized and liberated," Mykhailo Podolyak, an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, wrote on social media after the Friday strikes on the headquarters. "Merchant ships will return to the Black Sea. And the Russian warships will eventually take their rightful place, turning into an iconic underwater museum for divers that will attract tourists from all over the world. To a free Ukrainian Crimea." Source
Source: Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post.
I always have a good chuckle whenever anyone mentions ATESH. They are basically a comedy prop at this point and I know the article is going to be hillarious amature hour propaganda from the get go. Great to read over my morning coffee
|
On September 26 2023 16:01 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2023 11:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:The lesson, pay your troops... especially your officers: After missing their anticipated salary payments, Russian officers decided to leak sensitive information about Moscow's Black Sea Fleet to a Ukrainian partisan movement. The intelligence later paved the way for a devastating missile strike on the fleet's headquarters in the occupied Crimean peninsula, Ukrainian media reported.
Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post in a recent interview that they managed to gather information about high-ranking Russian commanders from officers who were frustrated by Moscow's failure to pay their salaries on time. The officers were financially compensated in exchange for the information, which was then passed along to state agencies and reportedly used to plan last week's attack on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters.
"Delays in payments alone do not force the military armed forces of the Russian Federation to go against the Russian authorities," a spokesperson for the partisan movement of Ukrainians and Tatars in Crimea (ATESH) told the Kyiv Post, which revealed details of the arrangement in a Monday report. "But the financial reward only helps them to decide on cooperation with the ATESH movement, it serves as an additional incentive."
Kyiv's forces on Friday bombarded the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters in Sevastopol, located on the southwestern edge of Crimea, with several Western-made Storm Shadow long-range cruise missiles. Videos and photographs of the attack showed the moment one of the missiles slammed into the building, as well as the major structural damage that the facility suffered as a result.
The Ukrainian military later said that it timed the strike to coincide with a meeting of Russia's naval leadership. On Monday, Kyiv's Special Operations Forces said 34 people were killed — including Adm. Viktor Sokolov, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet — and another 105 were injured. Insider was unable to immediately and independently confirm the claims.
It is not clear how much money was offered to the Russian officers, nor are the identities of these officers known. ATESH said they had access to activities of the Black Sea Fleet's leadership though. The group said information was passed to state agencies like the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Ukrainian Main Directorate of Intelligence (HUR), the latter of which confirmed to the Kyiv Post that it has worked with partisans to help target Russian positions around Crimea.
"The Russian military is well aware of the existence of the partisan movement and throw all their forces and means to suppress it and identify our agents," the ATESH spokesperson said. "The growing resistance among the Crimeans confuses them very much."
The strike on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters marked the latest in a string of Ukrainian attacks over the past few weeks targeting high-value Russian positions and assets around Crimea, which Kyiv has vowed to liberate from nearly a decade under Russian occupation.
These incursions include the destruction of multiple S-400 air-defense systems, attacks on an air base and on a command post belonging to the Black Sea Fleet, and a massive missile strike on a shipyard in Sevastopol. Western intelligence assessed that the assault damaged two ships while also delivering a long-term blow to Moscow's maritime logistics and operations, and Ukraine's military claimed dozens of Russian sailors were killed.
"Crimea will definitely be demilitarized and liberated," Mykhailo Podolyak, an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, wrote on social media after the Friday strikes on the headquarters. "Merchant ships will return to the Black Sea. And the Russian warships will eventually take their rightful place, turning into an iconic underwater museum for divers that will attract tourists from all over the world. To a free Ukrainian Crimea." Source Source: Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post. I always have a good chuckle whenever anyone mentions ATESH. They are basically a comedy prop at this point and I know the article is going to be hillarious amature hour propaganda from the get go. Great to read over my morning coffee
As a fellow comedian you are the best to judge.
|
Finland965 Posts
Source: Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post. I always have a good chuckle whenever anyone mentions ATESH. They are basically a comedy prop at this point and I know the article is going to be hillarious amature hour propaganda from the get go. Great to read over my morning coffee
Some months back you were taking Wagner's statements completely at face value, so what exactly is different this time around?
e: holy BBCode shenanigans, Batman
|
On September 26 2023 17:22 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2023 16:01 zeo wrote:On September 26 2023 11:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:The lesson, pay your troops... especially your officers: After missing their anticipated salary payments, Russian officers decided to leak sensitive information about Moscow's Black Sea Fleet to a Ukrainian partisan movement. The intelligence later paved the way for a devastating missile strike on the fleet's headquarters in the occupied Crimean peninsula, Ukrainian media reported.
Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post in a recent interview that they managed to gather information about high-ranking Russian commanders from officers who were frustrated by Moscow's failure to pay their salaries on time. The officers were financially compensated in exchange for the information, which was then passed along to state agencies and reportedly used to plan last week's attack on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters.
"Delays in payments alone do not force the military armed forces of the Russian Federation to go against the Russian authorities," a spokesperson for the partisan movement of Ukrainians and Tatars in Crimea (ATESH) told the Kyiv Post, which revealed details of the arrangement in a Monday report. "But the financial reward only helps them to decide on cooperation with the ATESH movement, it serves as an additional incentive."
Kyiv's forces on Friday bombarded the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters in Sevastopol, located on the southwestern edge of Crimea, with several Western-made Storm Shadow long-range cruise missiles. Videos and photographs of the attack showed the moment one of the missiles slammed into the building, as well as the major structural damage that the facility suffered as a result.
The Ukrainian military later said that it timed the strike to coincide with a meeting of Russia's naval leadership. On Monday, Kyiv's Special Operations Forces said 34 people were killed — including Adm. Viktor Sokolov, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet — and another 105 were injured. Insider was unable to immediately and independently confirm the claims.
It is not clear how much money was offered to the Russian officers, nor are the identities of these officers known. ATESH said they had access to activities of the Black Sea Fleet's leadership though. The group said information was passed to state agencies like the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Ukrainian Main Directorate of Intelligence (HUR), the latter of which confirmed to the Kyiv Post that it has worked with partisans to help target Russian positions around Crimea.
"The Russian military is well aware of the existence of the partisan movement and throw all their forces and means to suppress it and identify our agents," the ATESH spokesperson said. "The growing resistance among the Crimeans confuses them very much."
The strike on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters marked the latest in a string of Ukrainian attacks over the past few weeks targeting high-value Russian positions and assets around Crimea, which Kyiv has vowed to liberate from nearly a decade under Russian occupation.
These incursions include the destruction of multiple S-400 air-defense systems, attacks on an air base and on a command post belonging to the Black Sea Fleet, and a massive missile strike on a shipyard in Sevastopol. Western intelligence assessed that the assault damaged two ships while also delivering a long-term blow to Moscow's maritime logistics and operations, and Ukraine's military claimed dozens of Russian sailors were killed.
"Crimea will definitely be demilitarized and liberated," Mykhailo Podolyak, an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, wrote on social media after the Friday strikes on the headquarters. "Merchant ships will return to the Black Sea. And the Russian warships will eventually take their rightful place, turning into an iconic underwater museum for divers that will attract tourists from all over the world. To a free Ukrainian Crimea." Source Source: Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post. I always have a good chuckle whenever anyone mentions ATESH. They are basically a comedy prop at this point and I know the article is going to be hillarious amature hour propaganda from the get go. Great to read over my morning coffee As a fellow comedian you are the best to judge.
You never know, I might become the next president of Ukraine after my comic career is over. You are all invited to my future villas in Monaco, free cuban cigars and a luxary yacht tour to anyone that mentions TL.net
|
So you think Ukraine will win the war and need another president?
|
On September 26 2023 20:07 Velr wrote:
So you think Ukraine will win the war and need another president?
Why wouldnt Ukraine need a new president if they lose? Zelensky banned future elections in any case so it might be the only way in
On September 26 2023 18:54 hexhaven wrote:
Some months back you were taking Wagner's statements completely at face value, so what exactly is different this time around?
The source of the article above is a quasi state controlled propaganda outlet covering claims made by larpers based in Kiev that write fanfiction for money. Dont know why you are mentioning Wagner. Its like you read a hand written note by a homeless junkie and compare it to something said by the British Foreign Office. Both are statements and both can be wrong but eh... one is more credible than the other.
Edit: on second thought the junkie might be more credible my comparison is bad.
|
Sokolov has made an appearance.
|
Dunno. 50:50 that he is either alive and well or this video is fabricated. Really can't believe anything these days
|
United States44289 Posts
If I wanted to make a proof of life video I would include signs of life and today’s newspaper. That said, if he was dead I wouldn’t release any kind of video because that’d just make me look dumb. Either the Russians are bad at proving life or they’re dumb. A previously recorded clip with obvious editing and no movement from the living admiral is so bad that you wonder if they were deliberately making a fake video as some kind of triple bluff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
90
25
EPT
