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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
On August 19 2023 16:57 Magic Powers wrote:
I still remember when zeo was throwing truth bombs about the casualties of the Russian army when Bakhmut was under siege for six months. Oh indeed I remember how we all had to read countless comments from him about Russian lies and deceit. It was truly a time.
Oh wait, that never happened? Well color me surprised that the Last Man defending the Bastion of Impartiality and Nuance is dragging only one side of the conflict. Why would that be?
I still remember when you said the VBIED attack on the Crimean bridge last year was 'certainly not a truck'. No one knows you proclaimed.
On July 18 2023 19:12 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2023 17:29 zeo wrote:On July 18 2023 11:04 Gahlo wrote:
I haven't looked too far into the recent happenings with the bridge, but how does his contrast with the previous attack on it that makes it a much bigger issue? 2022 was a suicide bombing that killed 5 people. This one has less victims and damage but whats interesting is the way the bridge was attacked, with a drone deployed from who knows where. From a military perspective its very insignificant, though we see from a civilian standpoint its the final nail in the grain deal coffin which brings about its own media circus. No one knows how the Kerch bridge was destroyed last year, but it was certainly not a truck. It could've been a remote-controlled boat. So no, it was not a suicide bombing. Calling the most recent attack "militarily insignificant" is also fairly absurd. The Kerch bridge is a very important supply route. It's not the only route that exists, but that doesn't make it insignificant. Just the fact alone that Ukraine can even touch the bridge is of great relevance. Two successful strikes roughly 9 months apart means there are very serious safety issues. Just one more strike and the bridge could be rendered invalid.
Well..
In total, 21 tons of RDX high explosives were plastic wrapped in palletized cylinders to avoid detection.
SBU employees specially selected such a thickness of the film that the scanners at the checkpoints would not notice the explosives. In addition, the SBU stated they bypassed Russian jammers on the Kerch bridge.
The driver of the truck had no idea apparently and it was detonated remotely by GPS. EDIT: Technically I dont know if it can be labeled a suicide bombing with this new info. Though most certainly a VBIED
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You don't seem to understand how to quote stuff. You need to actually give the source of that statement for it to have any more value than something just written by you.
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I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo.
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Russian Federation240 Posts
On August 19 2023 17:59 Magic Powers wrote:
I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo.
-there is a video of the truck explosion; there is the interview with the head of Ukrainian intelligence unit saying "we did it"; there is a ton of indirect evidence like the extent of the damage to the bridge.
I suppose some guys are really numb... Imagine that your favorite newspaper says that your neighbor is devil itself, and that he has to be killed whatever the cost. What would you do?
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On August 19 2023 18:18 a_ch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2023 17:59 Magic Powers wrote:
I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo. -there is a video of the truck explosion; there is the interview with the head of Ukrainian intelligence unit saying "we did it"; there is a ton of indirect evidence like the extent of the damage to the bridge. I suppose some guys are really numb... Imagine that your favorite newspaper says that your neighbor is devil itself, and that he has to be killed whatever the cost. What would you do?
There is no video showing a truck exploding. The truck is a pure guess, there are various other possibilities. Could you please stop acting like you know everything?
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Russian Federation240 Posts
On August 19 2023 18:24 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2023 18:18 a_ch wrote:On August 19 2023 17:59 Magic Powers wrote:
I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo. -there is a video of the truck explosion; there is the interview with the head of Ukrainian intelligence unit saying "we did it"; there is a ton of indirect evidence like the extent of the damage to the bridge. I suppose some guys are really numb... Imagine that your favorite newspaper says that your neighbor is devil itself, and that he has to be killed whatever the cost. What would you do? There is no video showing a truck exploding. The truck is a pure guess, there are various other possibilities. Could you please stop acting like you know everything?
There is a number of them. Look timecode 3:50-3:53 in the attached video for example - it could be seen that the truck catches fire and continues moving.
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/6341c7f32bfaaf1e06366999?f=d2d
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Russian Federation609 Posts
On August 19 2023 17:59 Magic Powers wrote:
I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo.
Why are you so strongly objecting the truck version?
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On August 19 2023 17:59 Magic Powers wrote:
I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo.
Why would you stand by something you said before the information came out? The people that planned the operation know what caused the explosion. The head of the SBU confirming it and providing photos is sufficient evidence.
I get being skeptical of zeo's links but those are indeed pro-Ukraine sources and they're just reporting on an interview with Malyuk that the New Voice of Ukraine magazine published today (but isn't on their English version yet).
https://nv.ua/ukr/ukraine/events/krimskiy-mist-yak-sbu-dvichi-pidirvalo-simvol-velichi-putina-interv-yu-z-malyukom-novini-ukrajini-50347244.html
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On August 19 2023 19:20 Ardias wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2023 17:59 Magic Powers wrote:
I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo. Why are you so strongly objecting the truck version?
That's the wrong question. Why are people so strongly claiming that the truck version is correct? There's no definitive proof, and the evidence is flimsy.
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On August 19 2023 20:23 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2023 19:20 Ardias wrote:On August 19 2023 17:59 Magic Powers wrote:
I stand by my statement. No one knows what caused the explosion. There's absolutely no sufficient evidence that it was a truck.
But I also don't care to have this argument again. I'm not going to invest any time into that, and especially not for someone who's literally never honest like zeo. Why are you so strongly objecting the truck version? That's the wrong question. Why are people so strongly claiming that the truck version is correct? There's no definitive proof, and the evidence is flimsy.
Why do you think the Head of the Security Service of Ukraine is lying about it?
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It's called cherry picking guys. When you pick the bits of Ukrainian propaganda that you like and dismiss others.
I don't even see why it matters how the bridge was blown?
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On August 20 2023 02:25 0x64 wrote:
It's called cherry picking guys. When you pick the bits of Ukrainian propaganda that you like and dismiss others.
I don't even see why it matters how the bridge was blown?
I could accept the idea it's one of many pieces of Ukrainian propaganda, but I don't understand why people think Ukraine would lie and say they used a suicide truck bomb when they didn't, especially if it purportedly doesn't matter how they did it anyway. It just seems irrationally obstinate from my perspective.
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There is a group of people who refuse to believe it was a suicide truck because they have this weird image of Ukrainians being righteous knights of freedom and tolerance who would never do anything that's morally questionable.
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On August 20 2023 02:48 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2023 02:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 20 2023 02:25 0x64 wrote:
It's called cherry picking guys. When you pick the bits of Ukrainian propaganda that you like and dismiss others.
I don't even see why it matters how the bridge was blown? I could accept the idea it's one of many pieces of Ukrainian propaganda, but I don't understand why people think Ukraine would lie and say they used a suicide truck bomb when they didn't, especially if it purportedly doesn't matter how they did it anyway. It just seems irrationally obstinate from my perspective. I have no horse in this race, but the reason to say it was something different than it was would be to keep the Russians guessing and hope they do not defend it so you can use something similar there or somewhere else. But I’m with the others on the who cares how. Will be interesting to know someday but by no means do we need to know right now.
That's not plausible because only the public were kept guessing. Russian authorities obviously had enough to determine the cause very quickly, you can't teleport explosives with no trace. But we only had a couple of inconclusive videos, no access to their investigation, and a long history of lies as reason to not simply take their word for it.
Malyuk is basically bragging about a successful operation that he was personally involved in planning. Given how much time has passed since then, how unlikely a repeat of the same method always was, and how much circumstances have changed in regards to Ukraine's long range capabilities, it makes zero strategic sense for him to lie about this now.
My horse in this race is that I have higher expectations of the non-trolls here. If we can't discern between what's true and what we want to be true, and if we refuse to update our opinions when reliable new information that counters them is revealed, are we any better than someone guzzling on Russian propaganda?
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On August 20 2023 02:56 Sent. wrote:
There is a group of people who refuse to believe it was a suicide truck because they have this weird image of Ukrainians being righteous knights of freedom and tolerance who would never do anything that's morally questionable.
I fail to see how it matters. A missile or a drone exploding a bridge and killing some civilians is the exact same level of morally questionable as putting bombs in a truck. It's a valid military target, and as much as it sucks, sometimes military targets comes with expected civilians casualties.
Let's flip it on its head: Is it more ok for Russia to bomb hospitals with missiles than if they had put C4 on a truck and ran it into the building? I'd say absolutely not. Your method shouldn't dictate the morality of the results
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Someone had to drive that truck and that certain death is what makes it morally gray.
No one gives a fuck about what Russia does because everyone got used to them bombing hospitals and train stations. It is of course important to keep reminding people that Rusisa is that bad because if you don't then sooner or later we'll have to deal with significant amout of imbeciles urging both sides to "cease the hostilities", like they're even remotely comparable in what they do to civilians.
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On August 20 2023 06:25 Sent. wrote:
Someone had to drive that truck and that certain death is what makes it morally gray.
No one gives a fuck about what Russia does because everyone got used to them bombing hospitals and train stations. It is of course important to keep reminding people that Rusisa is that bad because if you don't then sooner or later we'll have to deal with significant amout of imbeciles urging both sides to "cease the hostilities", like they're even remotely comparable in what they do to civilians.
They could have just shipped it with a GPS detonator. Sure you know the random guy driving the truck is 100 % collateral damage if it goes off. But it's an infrastructure target so that is to be expected. The last strike killed two people I don't see how that is different.
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Russian Federation609 Posts
On August 11 2023 08:16 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2023 06:51 ZeroByte13 wrote:On August 11 2023 06:42 Ardias wrote:
All in all - for me and my surrounding there is little that actually changed in day-to-day life. But that's a perspective of a non-consumerist Russian from a provincial city, others could have different opinions. I can second this from what I hear from people I know. If you liked to travel to EU - it's worse. If you were well-integrated into global sphere in general - subscriptions to western services, working with western customers - it's worse, of course. If you have specific serious problems with health - it's worse now. If you want to buy an appartment or a car - they're significantly more expensive now from what I heard. Most people didn't travel to EU anyway and didn't work with foreign customers, and of course most don't have these specific health issues that are affected the most. Significantly increased appartment and car prices are probably the most noticeable changes but even then people don't buy cars every year and especially appartments. Crisises when everything got more expensive happened in Russia at least 3-4 times in last 20-25 years, so people are more used to it, I guess, it doesn't feel like a shock to them. E.g. if you ask my parents, they'd say that not much changed for them, they have more reasons for worries, but that's it more or less. If you ask a young professional with good English who worked or planned to work for European company... well, it's different. Thanks for the perspective both of you. I would be in the camp where medication and pet food/medication costs rising would be unintentional negative but I could see others thinking that it was “good” as to put pressure on people to put pressure on the government. I’m a big good guy, both cooking myself and getting snacks. Has that changed? Do you have the ability to get all the ingredients as before? How about finished snacks? I have no concept of grocery in Russia before but here even in small cities you have access to basically everything and multiple brands, this includes all sorts of international foods and ingredients. It is even pretty decent selections in towns but you tend to lose some of the selection and much of the international selections. I would say this type of restriction is what I would expect from the sanctions. That people could get the basics they need but lose a lot of the variety that comes from working together and getting along. (Not trying to be a dick just trying to be honest in what I think about when I hear sanctions. Basically I want luxury foreign goods hard to get, as well as travel restrictions to make it hard on the rich and elite as I would think they have the most influence and then have everyone feel some crunch as to also lower the popularity of invading other borders). Edit: produce as well. My other question that is probably harder and more charged is I notice a lot of the pro Russian posters really dislike the western democracies. I’m not a huge fan of the US’s system but when you look at some of say the Scandinavian countries that are close to you like Finland for example. What is it about their system that is worse than the Russian one? For me when I look at their “package”(can not think of a better word). Everything seems better, from healthcare to education to freedom.
Couldn't properly reply before due to the lack of time, will do so now.
1) It's a bit hard to compare groceries, but I would say that at least in local groceries the diversity of different stuff didn't change much, only prices on some imported stuff did. I wouldn't say that we have all the worldwide stuff in each grocery store (I've never saw sweet potato here, for example), but there is still a lot of variety of different products. Also basically every store here has a stand with Asian foods and spices, I guess it's quite popular around. I'll probably post or PM you few photos later.
You do lose a lot of variety if you go in villages/small settlements, though there is still a bit of everything.
Where it probably hits harder is in terms of exclusive luxury goods somewhere in Moscow/SPB, or big malls in other big cities. Stuff like original imported parmegano cheese, premium Swiss/Belgian chocolate etc. is probably much harder to come by. But it's not a regular meal for most of the Russians anyway.
As for my personal preferences in cooking - I didn't feel much change, but I'm not too much into exotic cuisine, mainly cooking regular Russian/Eastern European/Caucasian dishes, as well as some local replicas of Italian (pasta/pizza) or French (simple stuff like gratin or onion soup) ones. Same ingridents are still here, though prices on some went up, that's true.
2) That's an interesting question.
1. First of all, Russia does not have such deep traditions of democracy as many Western countries do. There was Novgorod republic (which I partially draw inheritage from), but it was squashed in 15th century by Moscow's monarchy. In the meantime many European cities, especially in the north, maintained their freedoms ("Magdeburg Law" and such) which, I believe, later led to further developments in terms of countrywide freedoms as well as civil rights. Russia abolsihed it's slavery only in 1861, basically in the same time as US, and far later than other European countries (except Portugal, I believe), for example.
2. Many European countries changed to democratic or more democratic form due to some kind of revolution (French, Polish, Hungarian, etc.). Russia also had one, in February 1917. However, it remained in WW1 after that, and people back then were so tired of the war and poverty, that they eagerly flocked behind Lenin and communists, who promised peace and land for everyone. And the history turned differently than for Turkey, for example.
3. If we are talking not about historical tendencies but the opinions of current population - well, first of all there is Soviet habit for many of the older part of the people, that state has an obligation to care for it's people and thus people aren't obliged to do anything, beside following laws and paying taxes. USSR, while not making people very prosperous, at it's peak (1970-1985) at least was making sure that everyone had roof over their head and food on the table, as long as you work properly and don't go into political matters. A lot of elderly people still follow that pattern, believing that if they obey the law and pay their taxes and expenses, authorities should provide the rest.
And they are very hard to move even if you simply need their signature for something, I encountered that a lot while working as head of the apartment complex community. They generally say - "we pay you, provide the services". And explanations that I'm merely an elected official, and they are the decision-makers (since they are part of the apartment community by owning a property) often simply do not go through.
Second, and maybe most important - the 90's. People here still seem not to grasp what was that for Russia (as well as for many CIS countries, especially in Caucasus and Middle Asia). Within months from the strong state with governmental control on almost everything it changed to the ghost of the state barely keeping it's territories from further falling apart, while newcoming market economy went into it crushing down all social security system previously existing.
I was born in the early 90's and didn't experienced most of these hardships since my father, being at time young, smart and ambitious, placed himself well in newly forming banking system of Russian Federation. But I know other stories.
One of my friends almost drowned in his childhood, because he went to winter fishing before the ice set in properly on the river. When I asked why he had done that, he replied - "I had nothing to eat".
My wife told me that when she was little, her father was going back from the construction and woodcutting jobs around our region bringing home frozen fish and vodka instead of money. Because it's how salary was given to people, there was no money to give out. Many people literally survived thanks to their dachas (small house with piece of land about 6 to 10 ares (600 to 1000 sq meters) to grow food on, were common in Soviet times) which many Russian families had.
Adding to life expentancy on the level of Zimbabwe, there was giant surge of organized crime, up to the level of Mexican drug cartels, with regular shootings and car/apartment bombings. And speaking of drugs - drug abuse, especially heroine, was so rampant, that my mother had to constantly look for me playing in the yard, so I wouldn't accidently sting myself with used syringe lying around, since they were literally everywhere.
And these were 90's, times of democracy and freedom in Russia. However, ability to speak out and choose a governing person in the city/region/country was not leading to the improvements of people's lives, and 1998's default was like a nail in the coffin. So people believed that whoever they will choose, would be a scumbag anyway, and thus it makes no difference, if there is a choice or nor.
Hence in the eyes of many people who lived through it (and for villages and small towns it applies often even for younger population) democracy and compliance to the West still means hunger and poverty. And Putin still has a lot of credit among people, since it's under his rule that Russia was pulled from this deep shit into a relative prosperity. And collective West, due to Cold war and aforementioned reasons, is still easy for many Russians to be considered an enemy and source of their trouble. Even in the cases when it isn't.
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EPT
