EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 165
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Deleted User 173346
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Deleted User 173346
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6272 Posts
On July 14 2022 02:21 GreenHorizons wrote: The US is functionally paying them. The US is paying for almost everything including things like their national pension system (which was in a precarious condition prior to the war). The US (and world bank) recently announced it's paying Ukraine's healthcare workers. In addition, the US is paying for Ukraine keeping gas and electricity running in hospitals/schools, while also paying salaries of civil servants and teachers. So in that aspect I'd say the threat is US politicians cutting Ukraine off for political expediency at home. That's too US centric. Aid is not just from the US. The EU and European countries give as much humanitarian and financial assistance. The US does give a lot more military assistance. But aid and lending from international financial instutitions only provided 40% of the funding in total. 39% is funded through QE and the rest via selling bonds to investors. sources: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/?cookieLevel=not-set https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-24/ukraine-budget-lifeline-at-risk-as-biggest-bond-buyer-gets-antsy | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23928 Posts
On July 14 2022 15:16 RvB wrote: That's too US centric. Aid is not just from the US. The EU and European countries give as much humanitarian and financial assistance. The US does give a lot more military assistance. But aid and lending from international financial instutitions only provided 40% of the funding in total. 39% is funded through QE and the rest via selling bonds to investors. sources: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/?cookieLevel=not-set https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-24/ukraine-budget-lifeline-at-risk-as-biggest-bond-buyer-gets-antsy I'm familiar with the US's aid so that's why I mentioned it (with specific examples of what they are funding) but the point applies across the West. My point is that Ukraine's economy already isn't paying their basic/essential bills, the West (with the US paying the lion's share when including military aid) is. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
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Deleted User 137586
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Silvanel
Poland4751 Posts
On July 14 2022 13:20 JimmiC wrote: I think Iran would be crazy to help RU, Israel/US is looking for any reason to hit inside of Iran (will do it now at times). I could see Iran arming RU and no western increase in Ukraine and many direct mission on Iran. Israel doesn't really need a reason to strike targets in Iran. They have done so in the past. But they won't go in this time. They have an understanding with Russia regarding the Middle East, why would they jeopardize that in an attempt to help Ukraine? And regarding the US: I have a hard time seeing US attacking Iran while being entangled in support for Ukraine and with China eyeing Taiwan. Doesn't really make sense to pick another fight. And isn't it better for US, that those drones will be used in Ukraine rather than against US/allied assets in the Middle East? Not to mention that US currently discussing restarting JCPOA with Iran. Attacking them would be an end to those negotiations and any prospect for peace or normalizing relations for the next 10-20 years. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On July 15 2022 00:18 plasmidghost wrote: Would any EU residents be able to provide some perspective on this potential deal? It seems like a decent temporary stopgap for gas shortages that would likely otherwise occur this winter Expect a lot of terrorist attacks and other forms of sabotage... | ||
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Sent.
Poland9296 Posts
I guess it sucks for the Armenians because they might be forced to trade their independence in exchange for Russian protection from Azerbaijan. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On July 13 2022 12:46 plasmidghost wrote: It depends. Anti-air defences aren't really made to prevent smaller artillery rockets. They are usually optimised for aircraft, though they may also be optimised for larger missiles. Some rocket artillery can be close to cruise missile sized in length but not in diameter and fin width which will be a different radar signature and mostly likely a reduced radar signature too. I doubt for instance that Luhansk is now bereft of air defences.I kind of assumed this was the case, but it's good that people way smarter and more knowledgeable are confirming (as much as confirming can be done in the war). I do have to wonder if Russia comes up with any ad hoc way to stop HIMARS and I honestly don't think they can. ____ I simply don't understand why Russia is using their limited and valuable cruise missiles to hit civilian targets. It makes no sense. In terms of civilian casualties, you need something apocalyptic to force a surrender onto a fighting nation, equivalent to dropping two nuclear bombs. As such strategic weapons, they would normally be only fired under the command of a high ranking officer, who would know of the pointlessness of striking such civilian targets, especially in such relaitive small amounts. The only other alternative is that an idiot who happens to hold power over military officers is ordering these pointless targets, the Russian command system is in poor discipline that lower ranks are firing at random targets of opportunity or the Russians are genuinely thinking they are striking military targets. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On July 15 2022 05:40 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It depends. Anti-air defences aren't really made to prevent smaller artillery rockets. They are usually optimised for aircraft, though they may also be optimised for larger missiles. Some rocket artillery can be close to cruise missile sized in length but not in diameter and fin width which will be a different radar signature and mostly likely a reduced radar signature too. I doubt for instance that Luhansk is now bereft of air defences. ____ I simply don't understand why Russia is using their limited and valuable cruise missiles to hit civilian targets. It makes no sense. In terms of civilian casualties, you need something apocalyptic to force a surrender onto a fighting nation, equivalent to dropping two nuclear bombs. As such strategic weapons, they would normally be only fired under the command of a high ranking officer, who would know of the pointlessness of striking such civilian targets, especially in such relaitive small amounts. The only other alternative is that an idiot who happens to hold power over military officers is ordering these pointless targets, the Russian command system is in poor discipline that lower ranks are firing at random targets of opportunity or the Russians are genuinely thinking they are striking military targets. Considering the fact, that Ukrainian security services stated that they arrested few dozen men suspected to coordinate the missile strike https://gordonua.com/news/war/v-vinnice-zaderzhali-neskolko-desyatkov-chelovek-pravoohraniteli-proveryayut-ih-na-prichastnost-k-korrektirovke-raketnogo-udara-monastyrskiy-1617141.html it wasn't just random hit on a civilian area, it was made based on some information given by locals. So those, who launched the strike, expected to hit something in particular. In fact, they did, at least one missile struck The House of Officers (cultural patriotic building honoring Armed Forces, was common in Soviet era, we have one here as well), which was just across the street. It was reportedly used for military purposes, which is indirectly confirmed by number of military personnel on site, even though Vinnitsa is in deep rear area. https://t.me/bbbreaking/129896 Though I agree that hitting such target at daylight in the middle of the city was made with complete disregard to collateral civilian damage. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6272 Posts
On July 14 2022 16:01 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm familiar with the US's aid so that's why I mentioned it (with specific examples of what they are funding) but the point applies across the West. My point is that Ukraine's economy already isn't paying their basic/essential bills, the West (with the US paying the lion's share when including military aid) is. Right, I agree with that. Ukraine relies on the west for aid and if it stops it'll be a huge problem for them. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4751 Posts
And this is only KH family. They also have Iskanders, Kalibr and Toczkas (which they say they dont have anymore, but videos show they do). I am pretty sure there are also other missile families they can use in this role. Many people underestimate how much weaponery Russia inherited from Soviet Union. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
On July 15 2022 18:05 Silvanel wrote: 'they build 3k missiles 30+ years ago" is why Russian missiles had a 60% failure rate, and those were the 'fresh' missiles they used at the start of the conflict.Russian stock of cruise and ballistic missiles is far larger than most people think. For example Soviet Union built around 3000 of KH-22 missille family (which is basicaly anti-carrier missile, but as we can see have also other uses). Noone outside of Russian military really knows how much they still have in stock (some were scrapped). I saw some estimates they have around 1000 of them still. And this is only KH family. They also have Iskanders, Kalibr and Toczkas (which they say they dont have anymore, but videos show they do). I am pretty sure there are also other missile families they can use in this role. You can't just throw a missile in storage for decades, ignore their maintenance because corruption and then expect them to work. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4751 Posts
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