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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
Zelensky bent changed his mind about Steinmeier.
The German president and Chancellor Olaf Scholz have both been invited to Kyiv, according to Frank-Walter Steinmeier's office. He had planned to go to Kyiv in April, but was told not to come on the eve of his trip. German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier spoke by phone with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Thursday, following friction which Chancellor Olaf Scholz had said would likely prevent him from visiting the war-torn country until it was resolved. Zelenskyy said he had a "good, constructive, important conversation" with Steinmeier. "Thanked for strong support for Ukraine," Zelenskyy wrote in his tweet. "Expect it to be intensified. German leadership is important to counter Russian aggression." https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-conflict-steinmeier-and-zelenskyy-have-good-constructive-important-conversation/a-61696571
Did not expect it to end with phrases like "German leadership" so fast.
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On May 06 2022 03:05 Sent. wrote:Zelensky bent changed his mind about Steinmeier. Show nested quote +The German president and Chancellor Olaf Scholz have both been invited to Kyiv, according to Frank-Walter Steinmeier's office. He had planned to go to Kyiv in April, but was told not to come on the eve of his trip. German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier spoke by phone with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Thursday, following friction which Chancellor Olaf Scholz had said would likely prevent him from visiting the war-torn country until it was resolved. Zelenskyy said he had a "good, constructive, important conversation" with Steinmeier. "Thanked for strong support for Ukraine," Zelenskyy wrote in his tweet. "Expect it to be intensified. German leadership is important to counter Russian aggression." https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-conflict-steinmeier-and-zelenskyy-have-good-constructive-important-conversation/a-61696571 Did not expect it to end with phrases like "German leadership" so fast.
Yeah I am very glad this is finally behind us. The german foreign minister is supposed to visit kiev soon(TM)
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On May 06 2022 03:05 Sent. wrote:Zelensky bent changed his mind about Steinmeier. Show nested quote +The German president and Chancellor Olaf Scholz have both been invited to Kyiv, according to Frank-Walter Steinmeier's office. He had planned to go to Kyiv in April, but was told not to come on the eve of his trip. German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier spoke by phone with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Thursday, following friction which Chancellor Olaf Scholz had said would likely prevent him from visiting the war-torn country until it was resolved. Zelenskyy said he had a "good, constructive, important conversation" with Steinmeier. "Thanked for strong support for Ukraine," Zelenskyy wrote in his tweet. "Expect it to be intensified. German leadership is important to counter Russian aggression." https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-conflict-steinmeier-and-zelenskyy-have-good-constructive-important-conversation/a-61696571 Did not expect it to end with phrases like "German leadership" so fast.
Well, Germany is/was the de facto leader in Europe. For what UA needs, Germany needs to lead. Without Germany, this war will remain protracted and ugly.
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This is reliable, our most senior FP MP.
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The international donors conference hosted by PL and SE raised 6.5bn of humanitarian aid for UA.
The conference, aimed at helping Ukraine deal with the economic and humanitarian fallout of Russia’s invasion, was hosted by Poland and Sweden, in cooperation with the Presidents of the European Commission and the European Council. Countries such as France, Finland, the Czech Republic, Croatia and others pledged millions of euros to support humanitarian and military efforts in Ukraine. The European Commission also pledged 200 million euros in aid for displaced people in Ukraine, it said in a statement. Council President Charles Michel said Ukraine needs significant funding to keep the state running, mentioning the figure of roughly 5 billion euro per month, according to IMF estimates. “We must do much more to deliver practical support now […] to make sure that nurses, doctors, and teachers can be paid on time and Ukraine can continue to function, he said. Source
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Russian Federation618 Posts
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He meant Ukraine joining the EU.
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Looks like the PzH2000 armored artillery deal has been slightly altered.
It is now Germany sending 7 of them + providing training in Germany. Training is supposed to take 40 days, but a shortening of that isn't ruled out.
Those 7 PzH were taken out of the maintenance cycle, so are not directly weakening the Bundeswehr (but obviously, now the maintenance rotation is broken) Anyway, they are, unlike most other heavy systems in discussion absolute state-of-the-art.
There is no decision yet on the delivery of more PzH2000 from the Dutch forces. From my reading it looks like they were initially planning to send their reserve artillery pieces, but are now debating if sending those conflicts with their own intended force capability expansion.
Additionally, the delivery of more artillery ammo has been decided. For now those PzH can be used with the ammo delivered by the Americans lately, but more ammo will be manufactured and delivered from Germany. Sadly I couldn't figure out from the German media articles on the topic if it will be the default ammo (range 30km) or the range extended one (40km).
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Russian Federation618 Posts
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Seven howitzers is nice and better than nothing, but that is enough for what, a company sized unit? Are those same guns in use elsewhere, so could they get more interoperable pieces from elsewhere? (apart from the mentioned Netherlands)
The numbers just seem very low, especially if Ukraine is preparing for offensives against the positions in the Luhansk/Donestk regions.
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Zurich15365 Posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerhaubitze_2000
They are operated by a number of countries, yes.
I would love to see more of them delivered to Ukraine too. But don't underestimate them, the PzH 2000 is an absolute beast and with the mobility and high rate of fire even a handful provide incredible firepower.
I worry though that training and integrating them in a command and control system will be a big challenge. Without which they are, well, just really expensive regular artillery. I read on German media that NATO isn't even fully standardized on artillery control yet. These will be difficult for Ukraine to operate to their full potential.
Regarding ammunition, this should not be a problem since they use the same NATO standard ammunition the US is delivering 150000 shells of to Ukraine.
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On May 06 2022 16:55 zatic wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerhaubitze_2000They are operated by a number of countries, yes. I would love to see more of them delivered to Ukraine too. But don't underestimate them, the PzH 2000 is an absolute beast and with the mobility and high rate of fire even a handful provide incredible firepower. I worry though that training and integrating them in a command and control system will be a big challenge. Without which they are, well, just really expensive regular artillery. I read on German media that NATO isn't even fully standardized on artillery control yet. These will be difficult for Ukraine to operate to their full potential.
Looking at the list of operators it's pretty much Italy who might have capacity to sell/donate some. Others can maybe give an individual piece from here and there. Ideally there'd be some international coordination on that, few countries together pledging to give some guns and shipping them asap and figuring out how to share the burden afterwards. Obviously not very likely, but still.
And for the command & control stuff, I'm sure using them just as regular artillery pieces is plenty good. But they will also need pure numbers, regardless of the performance as there will be breakages, need for dispersion or operating to multiple directions etc etc.
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Good (long) thread debunking some of the vulgar realist positions on the war from a historian. Also nice insights as to nukes, and the role of the West.
Also, EU barometer on the war came out. Some interesting tidbits:
EU policies are popular:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/xGXiusx.png)
This is not always true in each country. I wonder why Cyprus doesn't want sanctions against RU oligarchs 
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/hRm5lnT.png)
There's broad support for common gas purchases (something that was unthinkable a few months ago).
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/FJQbWU6.png)
For some inexplicable reason, Italians are super-engaged in following the news of the war.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6JIXFLS.png)
Edit:
P.S. No Rainer Saks translation today. He essentially said that the news is making prior assessments more certain, but there's still no new information, especially regarding what's happening near Izyum. Only real bit of info: about 500 civilians evacuated from Mariupol Azovstal yesterday.
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On May 06 2022 17:18 Oukka wrote:
And for the command & control stuff, I'm sure using them just as regular artillery pieces is plenty good. But they will also need pure numbers, regardless of the performance as there will be breakages, need for dispersion or operating to multiple directions etc etc.
They are still effective ofc, but its like getting a fat gaming PC to play tetris, might as well have gotten a cheap office pc then. It is a real challenge that has been acknowledged, but due to the heavy training with US and UK forces, there is a slight chance that ukraine already has some compatibility with NATO command & control. And if this war goes long and nato support doesn't stop, the integration of nato equipment will be inevitable. As long as they don't lose all of them until then, it would still be good.
Since they still have to train some soldiers on them, it will take a while for that deal to take effect anyway, so maybe some more can be found or made available through other nations promising to substitute the lost capability for the donating nation.
EDIT: Italy has to keep an close eye on the situation to know when its time to switch sides
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On May 06 2022 17:27 Artesimo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2022 17:18 Oukka wrote:
And for the command & control stuff, I'm sure using them just as regular artillery pieces is plenty good. But they will also need pure numbers, regardless of the performance as there will be breakages, need for dispersion or operating to multiple directions etc etc. They are still effective ofc, but its like getting a fat gaming PC to play tetris, might as well have gotten a cheap office pc then. It is a real challenge that has been acknowledged, but due to the heavy training with US and UK forces, there is a slight chance that ukraine already has some compatibility with NATO command & control. And if this war goes long and nato support doesn't stop, the integration of nato equipment will be inevitable. As long as they don't lose all of them until then, it would still be good. Since they still have to train some soldiers on them, it will take a while for that deal to take effect anyway, so maybe some more can be found or made available through other nations promising to substitute the lost capability for the donating nation.
That's also probably a doctrinal thing. The western (NATO) arms are more likely to be designed and intended for a different type of combat, more limited and operated from position of superiority whereas Ukrainian army has to use them in a situation where the enemy has similar or even superior capabilities.
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Zurich15365 Posts
On May 06 2022 17:37 Oukka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2022 17:27 Artesimo wrote:On May 06 2022 17:18 Oukka wrote:
And for the command & control stuff, I'm sure using them just as regular artillery pieces is plenty good. But they will also need pure numbers, regardless of the performance as there will be breakages, need for dispersion or operating to multiple directions etc etc. They are still effective ofc, but its like getting a fat gaming PC to play tetris, might as well have gotten a cheap office pc then. It is a real challenge that has been acknowledged, but due to the heavy training with US and UK forces, there is a slight chance that ukraine already has some compatibility with NATO command & control. And if this war goes long and nato support doesn't stop, the integration of nato equipment will be inevitable. As long as they don't lose all of them until then, it would still be good. Since they still have to train some soldiers on them, it will take a while for that deal to take effect anyway, so maybe some more can be found or made available through other nations promising to substitute the lost capability for the donating nation. That's also probably a doctrinal thing. The western (NATO) arms are more likely to be designed and intended for a different type of combat, more limited and operated from position of superiority whereas Ukrainian army has to use them in a situation where the enemy has similar or even superior capabilities.
There is truth to this, but we should remember that most NATO equipment has been designed specifically to fight the Soviet/Russian army. The PzH 2000 is a great example, the mobility, armor, and integration into wider fire control systems are all meant to address advanced counter battery fire. Something you wouldn't expect to face from any foe but the Russian army.
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Russian Federation618 Posts
Regarding PzH2000 - there is also issue of maintenance (as with all NATO equipment sent to Ukraine). I guess that's part of the reasons why US sent a big bunch (last time I checked it was 90) of towed howitzers - they are simpler by design, have less elemnts to replace during repair, and you can equip 2-3 brigades with them, while still leaving something in reserve to resupply the losses in combat units,
But training and maintaining units with 20 DANAs, 12 CAESARs, 13 PzH 2000 and 20 M109A3 - now that would be a logistical challenge. I guess they would be allocated to separate artillery battalions, but still.
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Zelenskyy just launched a much simpler way to donate to UA. You get to choose between one of:
- defence and demining
- medical aid
- rebuild ukraine
Lots of different ways to make payments. Worked like a charm, took me less than 30 seconds.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/dWhH2xb.jpg)
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I think "Rebuild Ukraine" fund doesn't make much sense at the moment unless it's for cities like Kyiv. Shelling from Russia is still largely unpredictable. On the other hand, defense and medical aid are perfectly good aims. 
At company level we have donations that are matched, so I used that earlier to donate for Ukraine. I think I donated like $20-25, so it became $40-50 in total. I remember donating to Nova Ukraine and a combo fund (Nova Ukraine and a few others).
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EPT
