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Lol, "the Ultimate Hammer" what a joke.
More people fired from ActiBlizz,
McCree was one of the Cosby Suite people so thats not surprise, I dont recall hearing about Barriga or LeCraft before so they probably had racked up shitty records over their careers.
https://wccftech.com/diablo-iv-world-of-warcraft-director-lead-designers-fired-blizzard/
According to an insider report from Kotaku, Diablo IV director Luis Barriga, Diablo IV lead designer Jesse McCree, and World of Warcraft senior designer Jonathan LeCraft were let go today. All three men have a long history at Blizzard – Luis Barriga worked on WoW, Diablo III, and Overwatch before taking over Diablo IV, and Jonathan LeCraft has been working on WoW since almost the beginning. Perhaps the most prominent of the three men is Jesse McCree, who’s been with Blizzard since the mid-2000s and is the namesake of the Overwatch character McCree.
When will we see executive firings, its good that they're cutting people still but I find it pretty unacceptable that we're not seeing more higher level firings. Blizzard was not the sole part of ActiBlizz engaged in sexual harassment and worse.
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On August 13 2021 21:37 Zambrah wrote:
Lol, "the Ultimate Hammer" what a joke.
my jurisdiction "got tough" with business. GM left and the entire auto sector minimized its operations. 10s of thousands of middle class level paying jobs were lost. All of a sudden the "get tough" approach stopped. These are multinational corps that just move where ever they get the best deal.
what do you think Gearbox is doing in Quebec City? Is it some kind of hotspot? Oh right, its because some nothing town 3 hours north east of Montreal is close to Texas. LOL. Gearbox got a sweetheart deal from the province. The minute that deal ends Gearbox-Quebec disappears.
On August 13 2021 21:37 Zambrah wrote:
When will we see executive firings, its good that they're cutting people still but I find it pretty unacceptable that we're not seeing more higher level firings. Blizzard was not the sole part of ActiBlizz engaged in sexual harassment and worse.
Is there direct evidence Activision employees committed any criminal acts?
Bobby fired the Prez and the HR leader. He is signalling that anyone at Blizzard is expendable. Something worse, in ATVI's is going on though. Blizzard is not making new games or IP as its revenue, profits, and player base are all in decline. The rest of ATVI is running along smoothly. So their jobs are a lot safer than anyone at Blizz.
Adham must be "on the clock" now. He is the leader of several "incubation" teams. I say some new stuff must come out very soon and be very good or Adham gets fired.
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California would survive Activision Blizzard moving, and if it truly thinks it can do whatever it wants by threatening to move away then good fuckin' riddance. See if California, the world's fifth biggest economy gives a shit.
If it was that simple for companies to up and leave their enfranchised historied HQs Blizzard would have already moved the rest of it's operations into places like Texas.
Yes, non-Blizzard Activision participated in sexual harassment. The woman who took her own life was not from Blizzard, that was Activision. Treyarch and Activision publishing are areas of Activision's not-Blizzard-places that did the sexual harassment. "CoD makes money so sexual harassers are safe if they work adjacent to it" is gross and I find the mentality that making money absolves one of harassing people 'til the fucking kill themselves to be abhorrent and disgusting.
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening.
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Northern Ireland26629 Posts
On August 13 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
California would survive Activision Blizzard moving, and if it truly thinks it can do whatever it wants by threatening to move away then good fuckin' riddance. See if California, the world's fifth biggest economy gives a shit.
If it was that simple for companies to up and leave their enfranchised historied HQs Blizzard would have already moved the rest of it's operations into places like Texas.
Yes, non-Blizzard Activision participated in sexual harassment. The woman who took her own life was not from Blizzard, that was Activision. Treyarch and Activision publishing are areas of Activision's not-Blizzard-places that did the sexual harassment. "CoD makes money so sexual harassers are safe if they work adjacent to it" is gross and I find the mentality that making money absolves one of harassing people 'til the fucking kill themselves to be abhorrent and disgusting.
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening.
You seem to be forgetting Jimmy’s many shrines to Bobby Kotick that may cloud his commentary.
I’m not sure why Blizzard would move. They’re liable for this lawsuit anyway. They’ve got to suck that up regardless, and they may have to institute changes regardless.
They’ll have to do that anyway, take the (seemingly deserved) hit and get on with it. Outside of an exceedingly generous tax offer in another state
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the threat of leaving is a negotiation tactic. That said it is not always a tactic: some giant companies leave. GM left Ontario after many decades.
https://observer.com/2000/06/the-vancouver-solution-what-if-microsoft-tried-to-flee/
There is nothing tying Blizzard to southern california any longer.
On August 13 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening.
i asked what evidence there was of criminal activity within Activision proper. I guess you have none?
On August 14 2021 02:09 WombaT wrote:
You seem to be forgetting Jimmy’s many shrines to Bobby Kotick that may cloud his commentary.
The above comment isn't even polemics.
if you have a specific criticism of Kotick ... it can be discussed. However, the quoted comment adds nothing to the convo.
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Oh so now we're at the "show me criminal evidence that's admissible in court or else I win" fallacy. Because people don't have the right to judge for themselves and make a decision as to whether their behavior was shitty, toxic and dangerous, no, we need to wait for a fucking Supreme Court justice to weigh in before we can have feelings and opinions. Don't you want people to be able to vote with their wallets? Let the free market run true, my boy.
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i'm looking for any evidence of criminal activity. its not have to be admissible in court.
On August 14 2021 12:14 NewSunshine wrote:Don't you want people to be able to vote with their wallets? Let the free market run true, my boy.
yes, i want people to vote with their wallets.
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And I'm saying nobody else cares about criminal evidence. That's incredibly specific to the point of being a distraction to even bring it up.
On August 14 2021 12:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 12:14 NewSunshine wrote:Don't you want people to be able to vote with their wallets? Let the free market run true, my boy. yes, i want people to vote with their wallets.
...
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On August 14 2021 12:17 NewSunshine wrote:
And I'm saying nobody else cares about criminal evidence. That's incredibly specific to the point of being a distraction to even bring it up.
i know lots of people who care about evidence of criminal activity. it makes a huge difference. i'd say many current and former employees of Blizzard are averse to even the possibility of having a criminal record.
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They're also averse to people knowing that they're misogynistic pieces of shit. So, good for you.
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On August 14 2021 12:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:the threat of leaving is a negotiation tactic. That said it is not always a tactic: some giant companies leave. GM left Ontario after many decades. https://observer.com/2000/06/the-vancouver-solution-what-if-microsoft-tried-to-flee/There is nothing tying Blizzard to southern california any longer. Show nested quote +On August 13 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening. i asked what evidence there was of criminal activity within Activision proper. I guess you have none? Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 02:09 WombaT wrote:
You seem to be forgetting Jimmy’s many shrines to Bobby Kotick that may cloud his commentary.
The above comment isn't even polemics. if you have a specific criticism of Kotick ... it can be discussed. However, the quoted comment adds nothing to the convo.
12. Defendant Activision Publishing, Inc. ("Activision Publishing") is now and was, at all times relevant to this complaint, a Delaware Corporation operating in and under the laws of the State of California and conducting business in Los Angeles, California. Activision Publishing's corporate headquarters are located in Santa Monica, California. At all times relevant to this complaint, Activision Publishing was an "employer" subject to FEHA and all other applicable statues.
The legal document by the state of California firmly delineates Blizzard and Activision here. What proof do you have that Blizzard and Blizzard exclusively is the target of the sexual harassment allegations? I guess you have none?
Doesnt even change the fact that Bobby Kotick is the one in charge, he oversaw these systematic failures, its partially on him for being a hilariously incompetent manager of people or an evil garbage person.
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On August 14 2021 12:25 Zambrah wrote:
Doesnt even change the fact that Bobby Kotick is the one in charge, he oversaw these systematic failures, its partially on him for being a hilariously incompetent manager of people or an evil garbage person.
i think he has done a good job. when you are in charge of 10,000 people some of them will be criminals. Therefore, I do not think criminal activity amongst 10,000 people you are in charge of automatically makes you responsible for their actions.
Likewise, I don't think Bob Iger should be fired due to a very small # of Disney employees who were caught preying on children. I posted that source earlier in this thread.
A person in charge of thousands might be directly responsible, indirectly responsible or not responsible at all for the actions of any very small group of employees. I'd say Kotick and Iger are very indirectly responsible for the problems at Disney and Blizz face due to the low pay levels and penchant for looking for employees who "love the game/product". This creates an atmosphere where the lines are blurred between work and non-work. IMO, that's on both Iger and Kotick.
I'd like to contrast Iger and Kotick with leaders like Harold Ballard and Vince Mcmahon. I'd say Ballard and Mcmahon were directly responsible for the really bad decades long criminal behaviours of their employees. Kotick and Iger.. nah ... for me... they get a pass. Now, I am open to be swayed in my opinions of Iger and Kotick based on whatever evidence surfaces in the future.
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Are we still trying to gloss over the fact that it was the top level executives doing the harassment, Jimmy? Because I know I at the very least have corrected you on this already. Quit mentioning that there's this many employees in the company so they can't be held responsible when they literally couldn't have not known what was happening at Blizzard because they were doing it themselves. That's your trickle-down. They 10000% knew and could've done something if they cared to.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 14 2021 12:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:the threat of leaving is a negotiation tactic. That said it is not always a tactic: some giant companies leave. GM left Ontario after many decades. https://observer.com/2000/06/the-vancouver-solution-what-if-microsoft-tried-to-flee/There is nothing tying Blizzard to southern california any longer. Show nested quote +On August 13 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening. i asked what evidence there was of criminal activity within Activision proper. I guess you have none? Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 02:09 WombaT wrote:
You seem to be forgetting Jimmy’s many shrines to Bobby Kotick that may cloud his commentary.
The above comment isn't even polemics. if you have a specific criticism of Kotick ... it can be discussed. However, the quoted comment adds nothing to the convo.
What does California lose when ATVI moves away? THey're not Microsoft, they're not manufacturer(so e.g. tied business goes down) and they tax in Netherlands IIRC. So what exactly will California lose if ATVI decides to move away?
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On August 14 2021 19:26 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 12:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:the threat of leaving is a negotiation tactic. That said it is not always a tactic: some giant companies leave. GM left Ontario after many decades. https://observer.com/2000/06/the-vancouver-solution-what-if-microsoft-tried-to-flee/There is nothing tying Blizzard to southern california any longer. On August 13 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening. i asked what evidence there was of criminal activity within Activision proper. I guess you have none? On August 14 2021 02:09 WombaT wrote:
You seem to be forgetting Jimmy’s many shrines to Bobby Kotick that may cloud his commentary.
The above comment isn't even polemics. if you have a specific criticism of Kotick ... it can be discussed. However, the quoted comment adds nothing to the convo. What does California lose when ATVI moves away? THey're not Microsoft, they're not manufacturer(so e.g. tied business goes down) and they tax in Netherlands IIRC. So what exactly will California lose if ATVI decides to move away?
Income tax and consumption of all the employees? A high profile employer attracting young talents from all over the world? The possibilities of spin-off companies settling down in the state as well?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 14 2021 22:58 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 19:26 deacon.frost wrote:On August 14 2021 12:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:the threat of leaving is a negotiation tactic. That said it is not always a tactic: some giant companies leave. GM left Ontario after many decades. https://observer.com/2000/06/the-vancouver-solution-what-if-microsoft-tried-to-flee/There is nothing tying Blizzard to southern california any longer. On August 13 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening. i asked what evidence there was of criminal activity within Activision proper. I guess you have none? On August 14 2021 02:09 WombaT wrote:
You seem to be forgetting Jimmy’s many shrines to Bobby Kotick that may cloud his commentary.
The above comment isn't even polemics. if you have a specific criticism of Kotick ... it can be discussed. However, the quoted comment adds nothing to the convo. What does California lose when ATVI moves away? THey're not Microsoft, they're not manufacturer(so e.g. tied business goes down) and they tax in Netherlands IIRC. So what exactly will California lose if ATVI decides to move away? Income tax and consumption of all the employees? A high profile employer attracting young talents from all over the world? The possibilities of spin-off companies settling down in the state as well?
OTOH they lose a toxic employer who was known for underpaying their employees and abusing them. Don't know, not sure if this applies to a full truth here. Also since they're there for a while do we have examples of this ever happening?
California has 40m population, I believe they can survive ATVI leaving without noticing. (local authorities may differ, but Ca?)
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On August 14 2021 12:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 12:25 Zambrah wrote:
Doesnt even change the fact that Bobby Kotick is the one in charge, he oversaw these systematic failures, its partially on him for being a hilariously incompetent manager of people or an evil garbage person. i think he has done a good job. when you are in charge of 10,000 people some of them will be criminals. Therefore, I do not think criminal activity amongst 10,000 people you are in charge of automatically makes you responsible for their actions. Likewise, I don't think Bob Iger should be fired due to a very small # of Disney employees who were caught preying on children. I posted that source earlier in this thread. A person in charge of thousands might be directly responsible, indirectly responsible or not responsible at all for the actions of any very small group of employees. I'd say Kotick and Iger are very indirectly responsible for the problems at Disney and Blizz face due to the low pay levels and penchant for looking for employees who "love the game/product". This creates an atmosphere where the lines are blurred between work and non-work. IMO, that's on both Iger and Kotick. I'd like to contrast Iger and Kotick with leaders like Harold Ballard and Vince Mcmahon. I'd say Ballard and Mcmahon were directly responsible for the really bad decades long criminal behaviours of their employees. Kotick and Iger.. nah ... for me... they get a pass. Now, I am open to be swayed in my opinions of Iger and Kotick based on whatever evidence surfaces in the future.
Any CEO or executive who doesnt hear about a suicide on a company trip caused by sexual harassment is a fucking massive dumbass and is so far disconnected from the goings on of their company that they don't serve any meaningful purpose in working there.
There is no world in which there is a reasonable justification for the leaders of a company to not know when someone fucking kills themselves at work because of a serious pattern of behavior cultivated in the work place. You're either daft beyond mortal comprehension or don't care, either way you're fuck awful at being a leader.
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If we're gonna start arguing with the excuse that companies of a certain size can't be expected to behave responsibly, so it's "just the way it is" that they engage in predatory behavior in the workplace, then I think that's a fantastic case for making it so no single company can ever be that large in the first place.
Or maybe the fact that there are companies which are incredibly large that manage to not have rampant sexual assault and harassment problems means it's a bullshit excuse, and always has been.
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is there a tldr or some up to date summary of the scandal so far? for people like me who havent followed the case and only heard about the headline
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On August 14 2021 22:58 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 19:26 deacon.frost wrote:On August 14 2021 12:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:the threat of leaving is a negotiation tactic. That said it is not always a tactic: some giant companies leave. GM left Ontario after many decades. https://observer.com/2000/06/the-vancouver-solution-what-if-microsoft-tried-to-flee/There is nothing tying Blizzard to southern california any longer. On August 13 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
Activision can try and pretend Blizzard was the only problem, but they werent. I'm sure once more incompetent executives will skate free of consequences from overseeing dens of fuckery and being either too evil to do anything or too deeply incompetent to know what was happening. i asked what evidence there was of criminal activity within Activision proper. I guess you have none? On August 14 2021 02:09 WombaT wrote:
You seem to be forgetting Jimmy’s many shrines to Bobby Kotick that may cloud his commentary.
The above comment isn't even polemics. if you have a specific criticism of Kotick ... it can be discussed. However, the quoted comment adds nothing to the convo. What does California lose when ATVI moves away? THey're not Microsoft, they're not manufacturer(so e.g. tied business goes down) and they tax in Netherlands IIRC. So what exactly will California lose if ATVI decides to move away? Income tax and consumption of all the employees? A high profile employer attracting young talents from all over the world? The possibilities of spin-off companies settling down in the state as well?
Income tax and consumption from Activision/Blizzard employees is likely fairly small compared to the rest of the industry in California. They’re also probably not attracting the brightest talent, the games industry pays absolute shithouse compared to typical corporate IT service jobs. The brightest are going elsewhere like Facebook not working at Blizzard for wages like 20+% less than the competition.
There’s also a huge amount of games industry still in California that develop way more prestigious products like a whole chunk of Sony’s first party if you want to go that route. The conditions still suck but they seem better than Blizzard, who has a huge reputation of pitching jobs with "YOU'RE GOING TO BE WORKING ON WARCRAFT, LIVE YOUR CHILDHOOD DREAM AND ACCEPT $20,000 LESS!"
If anyone is going to get made an example of by a state, it’s the games industry.
On August 15 2021 02:05 evilfatsh1t wrote:
is there a tldr or some up to date summary of the scandal so far? for people like me who havent followed the case and only heard about the headline
There's no real tl;dr because not much has happened beyond the reports that keep coming out. They're getting hit by California for widespread abuse and workplace toxicity. It isn't just general sexual harassment but also intentionally paying women less and freezing them from upper management positions because of a culture of a nerdy old boys club.
In the meantime, some companies like Coca Cola have pulled advertising for Blizzard eSports and some games news sites are refusing to report on Blizzard products as a stand against widespread abuse. In the meantime, Activision Blizzard is hiring some union busting law firm but to be fair big law firms end up taking up a whole host of nasty jobs because not every job is going to be sunshine and rainbows. But here is a list of articles detailing Blizzard's workplace problems:
Activision Blizzard accused of routinely deadnaming trans staff, ignoring & making fun of a non-binary employee's pronouns - Pink News
At Blizzard, groping, free-flowing booze and fear of retaliation tainted ‘magical’ workplace - WaPo
Inside Blizzard Developers' Infamous 'Bill Cosby Suite' - Kotaku
Blizzard Turned Game Developers Into Rock Stars. Misbehavior Followed - Bloomberg
Men would walk into breastfeeding room and just stare - IGN
Blizzard Recruiters asked hacker if she liked being penetrated at job fair - Vice/Waypoint
Activision Blizzard Gender-Bias Suit Shows Videogame Culture Remains a Flashpoint - WSJ
That's just some of the major reports. This is not a normal workplace or toxicity remotely close to a typical big company and anyone using that excuse to dismiss these problems is a humungous asshole purposely dancing around semantics or being intentionally obtuse sorry. You get toxicity in big companies and big company HR departments often exist to protect corporate interests, yes. This is toxicity turned up to 11. How you don't know and/or refuse to deal with this is mindboggling.
These nerds would get beat up in my company without question if they pulled half the shit they did and I work in STEM where casual sexist jokes are still common. Just a few years ago one guy at work got lightly beat up for being under the influence and groping a secretary. Misogyny and sociopathy in the most pathetic ways because its skin crawlingly creepy and pathetic in ways that only nerds can be.
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