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On June 19 2025 21:48 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 21:13 Razyda wrote:
I think it is actually. It is very foundation of all the radicals, that they fighting evil. I would imagine it would be somewhat hard to go " they are quite okay, lets go kill them" and convince a lot of people. Narrative "this guys are pure evil" would be much more successful. Once you believe someone is full evil, then nothing makes one goodder than a little slaughter, look jihadis, nazi, inquisition.
To be a radical you just need to believe that a lot needs to change from how society currently is. You absolutely do not need to believe that you're fighting evil. Sometimes even the opposite is true, something that currently exists exists because people think they're fighting evil through it, and radicals react against that. Jimmi is not radical at all. Almost certainly less than you, definitely less than me.
At what point I called him radical? What I did was stating that world view expressed is the most dangerous one and explained why (you may disagree/question it, similarly as Kwark did, to whom I responded). I specifically mentioned that it is foundation (aka something you build on) for radicalism.
Closest I came to call him something was in my response to "WTF is wrong with you"
Radical:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/radical#:~:text=: very different from the usual,and policies of extreme change
a
: very different from the usual or traditional : extreme
b
: favoring extreme changes in existing views, habits, conditions, or institutions
c
: associated with political views, practices, and policies of extreme change
d
: advocating extreme measures to retain or restore a political state of affairs
bolded is the context in which I used the word.
"Sometimes even the opposite is true, something that currently exists exists because people think they're fighting evil through it, and radicals react against that."
And do the radicals reacting against that, believe they protect evil?
And yes I am way more radical than Jimmy, although my radicalism have nothing to do with things like politics, religion, or culture.
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On June 19 2025 14:39 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 04:18 pmp10 wrote:On June 19 2025 01:40 RvB wrote:On June 19 2025 00:58 pmp10 wrote:
Look at Bibi - he just got more Israelis killed than Hamas holds hostages and is now politically stronger then ever. Bibi is not strong at all. He's been far behind the opposition in polls since October 7 except for a little bump after the escalation against Hezbollah. The failure of October 7 will haunt his legacy forever no matter what he does. He's out with the next elections. That's a brave prediction. He still has a year to defeat Iran and crush Hamas. It's not a brave prediction. He's up 3 seats and his coalition is still far behind the opposition: Show nested quote +Netanyahu’s coalition bloc receives 50 seats, far short of a majority in the 120-seat Knesset. Opposition parties receive 60 seats, and the Arab-led parties have 10. Arab majority parties have traditionally shunned coalitions, though Islamist Ra’am broke that trend when it joined a Bennett-led coalition in 2021-2022.
www.timesofisrael.com
That may be the current situation but this war will definitely change that.
If Iran war ends with a major victory then so will Gaza.
I'd say then he can count on 4 more years.
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On June 20 2025 00:18 Razyda wrote:
At what point I called him radical? What I did was stating that world view expressed is the most dangerous one and explained why (you may disagree/question it, similarly as Kwark did, to whom I responded). I specifically mentioned that it is foundation (aka something you build on) for radicalism.
That's fine, I'm more interested in reacting against the idea that radicalism is dangerous than in your discussion with him. I think it's pretty obvious in 2025 that you ought to be radical, if society doesn't change drastically in the near future we're going off a cliff. I get the sense that most people are at least starting to realize that.
This is a political topic so clearly the definition you're after is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_politics
The conflation between extremism and radicalism is a tactic used by liberals to group all of their political enemies together, similar to the conflation between populism and far right politics. It particularly doesn't work because, for example, Trump carpet bombing Iran like Mohdoo has erotic dreams about would be an extreme act, but not a radical act at all.
"And do the radicals reacting against that, believe they protect evil?"
No, they might think they're fighting evil, or they might not. There is no correlation.
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My bodacious tubular radical self is not having a discussion with him. He is having it with himself.
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Sorta seems like he already made up his mind and they managed to explain he had to move some vulnerable assets first.
The U.S. military has moved some aircraft and ships from bases in the Middle East that may be vulnerable to any potential Iranian attack, two U.S. officials told Reuters on Wednesday.
www.reuters.com
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This isn't even the most shocking and out of touch thing a senior Israeli has said today!
Israel Katz, the defence minister who ordered every hospital in Gaza destroyed, all the irreplaceable hospital equipment inside them destroyed, and then ordered the IDS to prevent medical supplies getting to the population, has said that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei must die because Iran hit a hospital with a missile.
Like, yeah, I agree with the sentiment, but this is like Goebbels complaining that Churchill is a racist.
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Northern Ireland26028 Posts
He really is a special kind of cunt ain’t he?
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I am so confused, at one page, Iran and Israel have been at war for decades, then one attack on a hospital us suddenly a reason for a war... Then Iran is simultaneously so weak they should immediately tap out and also a credible thread to Israel so they are allowed to murder their scientists. And Iran is literally a week away from dropping a nuclear bomb at Israel, which they would definitely immediately do because they have stated so and also Israel is definitely not trying to genocide the people of Gaza despite declaring the intent of doing that by their ruling Ministers and shelling...hospitals.
I know no one here is pro Israel, so more venting about the stupidity of the world I have brought my daughter in. I actually believe the way Israel is conducting their war of aggression and u think it is their war of aggression, how fantasy solution broetchenholer would want to do it. kill military leaders until they run out of them. It's just frustrating to see Israel of all entities to use it in a war they have started.
And yeah, I understand that this forum is in alignment that Iran is to blame for all the shit every militant Shia fraction around Israel has done in the last 20 years is an attempt of murdering all Jews by Iran. If Hezbollah fires an anti tank missile at an Israeli tank, that's unsuccessful genocide by Iran. If arab Sunni sheiks give money to Hamas, they are rewarded by getting us missiles to kill Shia terrorists in Yemen, because they, unlike Iran, do not want to murder all Israelis, apparently. Iran is the only authoritarian country in the world where the propaganda apparently aligns perfectly with the state reasoning. So they have to go so that Israel can finally live in peace.
Here is the disclaimer, I do not support the Iranian regime, I think the Iranian people deserve much better and I hope they will get much better without being bombed by foreign nations for it or suffering a brutal civil war. I also think that Israel deserves a day to day without shitty rockets being fired into the general direction of population centers or suicide bombers or any other thread that I would never endure myself, ever. The Israeli people look at me claiming Hezbollah did only act after Israel started flattening Gaza with bewilderment, I am sure, the couple of casualties in the border skirmishes with Hezbollah in the first days after the Hamas attack are tragedies and meaningful on their own, even if the thread by Hezbollah or the huthis to the state of Israel is non existent.
It is understandable to want all of that to stop from the mind if an Israeli, and striking Iran directly is warranted if you want to live in peace. The issue is just, I can see a world where all of this did never happen when Israel had just stopped being fascist nationalist and religious extremist enabling assholes. And I apparently can't look over that fact. I have sympathy with individual Israelis, some of them did not chose any of that, I cannot however ignore that the political entity of Israel had the chance to remove the nourishing ground from around the seed of extremism in Gaza, in Iran in Lebanon and every time they decided to put fertilizer on it. Not because that was the only choice they had, but because they wanted to chose that way. Iran has agency in their foreign diplomacy and in their internal propaganda, they can chose to not project power and not try to exert influence around them. They are also murderous assholes. Israel, however, are also murderous assholes and they too could stop being murderous assholes.
It's just that they are our murderous assholes, using our weapons, having our values, our political system, have been formed by our mistakes. I have sympathy for Iran, for being pushed around for centuries. But they are also murderous assholes now, so the sympathy only goes so far.
Sorry for the rant, I hope I was able to convey my thoughts a little bit. For the most part we are all in agreement, we just remove a little bit more of agency from one party then the others.
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Northern Ireland26028 Posts
On June 20 2025 05:02 Broetchenholer wrote:
I am so confused, at one page, Iran and Israel have been at war for decades, then one attack on a hospital us suddenly a reason for a war... Then Iran is simultaneously so weak they should immediately tap out and also a credible thread to Israel so they are allowed to murder their scientists. And Iran is literally a week away from dropping a nuclear bomb at Israel, which they would definitely immediately do because they have stated so and also Israel is definitely not trying to genocide the people of Gaza despite declaring the intent of doing that by their ruling Ministers and shelling...hospitals.
I know no one here is pro Israel, so more venting about the stupidity of the world I have brought my daughter in. I actually believe the way Israel is conducting their war of aggression and u think it is their war of aggression, how fantasy solution broetchenholer would want to do it. kill military leaders until they run out of them. It's just frustrating to see Israel of all entities to use it in a war they have started.
And yeah, I understand that this forum is in alignment that Iran is to blame for all the shit every militant Shia fraction around Israel has done in the last 20 years is an attempt of murdering all Jews by Iran. If Hezbollah fires an anti tank missile at an Israeli tank, that's unsuccessful genocide by Iran. If arab Sunni sheiks give money to Hamas, they are rewarded by getting us missiles to kill Shia terrorists in Yemen, because they, unlike Iran, do not want to murder all Israelis, apparently. Iran is the only authoritarian country in the world where the propaganda apparently aligns perfectly with the state reasoning. So they have to go so that Israel can finally live in peace.
Here is the disclaimer, I do not support the Iranian regime, I think the Iranian people deserve much better and I hope they will get much better without being bombed by foreign nations for it or suffering a brutal civil war. I also think that Israel deserves a day to day without shitty rockets being fired into the general direction of population centers or suicide bombers or any other thread that I would never endure myself, ever. The Israeli people look at me claiming Hezbollah did only act after Israel started flattening Gaza with bewilderment, I am sure, the couple of casualties in the border skirmishes with Hezbollah in the first days after the Hamas attack are tragedies and meaningful on their own, even if the thread by Hezbollah or the huthis to the state of Israel is non existent.
It is understandable to want all of that to stop from the mind if an Israeli, and striking Iran directly is warranted if you want to live in peace. The issue is just, I can see a world where all of this did never happen when Israel had just stopped being fascist nationalist and religious extremist enabling assholes. And I apparently can't look over that fact. I have sympathy with individual Israelis, some of them did not chose any of that, I cannot however ignore that the political entity of Israel had the chance to remove the nourishing ground from around the seed of extremism in Gaza, in Iran in Lebanon and every time they decided to put fertilizer on it. Not because that was the only choice they had, but because they wanted to chose that way. Iran has agency in their foreign diplomacy and in their internal propaganda, they can chose to not project power and not try to exert influence around them. They are also murderous assholes. Israel, however, are also murderous assholes and they too could stop being murderous assholes.
It's just that they are our murderous assholes, using our weapons, having our values, our political system, have been formed by our mistakes. I have sympathy for Iran, for being pushed around for centuries. But they are also murderous assholes now, so the sympathy only goes so far.
Sorry for the rant, I hope I was able to convey my thoughts a little bit. For the most part we are all in agreement, we just remove a little bit more of agency from one party then the others.
Well-said sir, you should rant more often! Although perhaps it’s not good for the auld blood pressure.
I would disagree that nobody here is pro-Israel, but that aside.
It’s a frustrating topic to discuss for sure. Regular readers here may find it ridiculous but in the ‘wild’ of emergent bar chats, at social gatherings I’m too ‘pro-Israel’ for some sensibilities.
I see a few kinda fundamental problems that crop up frequently:
1. Too simplistic. - ‘X seems bad based on like 2 news stories. I won’t learn more beyond that.’
2. Too much nuance. - Basically the opposite of (1), one spends so much time dealing in shades of grey that one loses any kind of moral clarity whatsoever.
3. Inconsistent logic in arguments. - For example if your arguments around Israel being a morally better state than its neighbours are couched in it being a liberal democracy (at least domestically), OK, that’s pretty clearly something that is a thing. However it also logically follows that Israel should be judged not on the standards exhibited by its neighbours, but those of other vaguely comparable liberal democracies. It can’t be the good guy (or, least-bad guy) because it’s a liberal democracy, but not be judged by the standards expected of a polity operating within that framework.
4. An inability to respond to an actual argument that’s being made. - I have reservations about what we’re seeing currently, although I think Iran are shitbags. It’s a scenario I’m genuinely unsure about what I think should, and more importantly, will happen. Having worries that, potentially we see some huge rupture in Iran if a power vacuum is created, with huge violence doesn’t mean I bloody love Iran. The other part of me (initially stronger, less sure having pondered) that looks at Iran’s historic and contemporary behaviour and thinks Israel does kinda have some right to defang them, also doesn’t mean I bloody love Israel!
Argh!
Anyway I must say the quality of chat here on TL does tend to be a hell of a lot better than most other places I’ve contributed in, or just read. So thanks to y’all for that, even if I do get rather spiky at times.
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My guess:
- Even GBU-57 would need Multiple hits to reach the underground facility
- Trump is just the ugly face of PJ2025 - they don't want foreign interventions
- Trum is undecided what to do, and hopes in 2 weeks some haitian has eaten another dog
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On June 20 2025 05:02 Broetchenholer wrote:
I am so confused, at one page, Iran and Israel have been at war for decades, then one attack on a hospital us suddenly a reason for a war... Then Iran is simultaneously so weak they should immediately tap out and also a credible thread to Israel so they are allowed to murder their scientists. And Iran is literally a week away from dropping a nuclear bomb at Israel, which they would definitely immediately do because they have stated so and also Israel is definitely not trying to genocide the people of Gaza despite declaring the intent of doing that by their ruling Ministers and shelling...hospitals.
I know no one here is pro Israel, so more venting about the stupidity of the world I have brought my daughter in. I actually believe the way Israel is conducting their war of aggression and u think it is their war of aggression, how fantasy solution broetchenholer would want to do it. kill military leaders until they run out of them. It's just frustrating to see Israel of all entities to use it in a war they have started.
And yeah, I understand that this forum is in alignment that Iran is to blame for all the shit every militant Shia fraction around Israel has done in the last 20 years is an attempt of murdering all Jews by Iran. If Hezbollah fires an anti tank missile at an Israeli tank, that's unsuccessful genocide by Iran. If arab Sunni sheiks give money to Hamas, they are rewarded by getting us missiles to kill Shia terrorists in Yemen, because they, unlike Iran, do not want to murder all Israelis, apparently. Iran is the only authoritarian country in the world where the propaganda apparently aligns perfectly with the state reasoning. So they have to go so that Israel can finally live in peace.
Here is the disclaimer, I do not support the Iranian regime, I think the Iranian people deserve much better and I hope they will get much better without being bombed by foreign nations for it or suffering a brutal civil war. I also think that Israel deserves a day to day without shitty rockets being fired into the general direction of population centers or suicide bombers or any other thread that I would never endure myself, ever. The Israeli people look at me claiming Hezbollah did only act after Israel started flattening Gaza with bewilderment, I am sure, the couple of casualties in the border skirmishes with Hezbollah in the first days after the Hamas attack are tragedies and meaningful on their own, even if the thread by Hezbollah or the huthis to the state of Israel is non existent.
It is understandable to want all of that to stop from the mind if an Israeli, and striking Iran directly is warranted if you want to live in peace. The issue is just, I can see a world where all of this did never happen when Israel had just stopped being fascist nationalist and religious extremist enabling assholes. And I apparently can't look over that fact. I have sympathy with individual Israelis, some of them did not chose any of that, I cannot however ignore that the political entity of Israel had the chance to remove the nourishing ground from around the seed of extremism in Gaza, in Iran in Lebanon and every time they decided to put fertilizer on it. Not because that was the only choice they had, but because they wanted to chose that way. Iran has agency in their foreign diplomacy and in their internal propaganda, they can chose to not project power and not try to exert influence around them. They are also murderous assholes. Israel, however, are also murderous assholes and they too could stop being murderous assholes.
It's just that they are our murderous assholes, using our weapons, having our values, our political system, have been formed by our mistakes. I have sympathy for Iran, for being pushed around for centuries. But they are also murderous assholes now, so the sympathy only goes so far.
Sorry for the rant, I hope I was able to convey my thoughts a little bit. For the most part we are all in agreement, we just remove a little bit more of agency from one party then the others.
They are each others murderous assholes. People like Netanyahu need Mullahs who can't throw a rock that isn't intercepted, but will continiue to TRY.
If there wasn't this rhetoric by the Mullahs.. and the action of their proxies... the Israeli public wouldn't vote for right-wing parties and Netanyahu, who moved ever further into the zone of orthodox hardline right wingers... would long be in jail for corruption.
The Mullahs and Hamas are basicly "Black Knight" from Monty Python.
Come here! I bite your Legs off!
But my point is:
Take murderous assholes serious again. If there are Israeli ministers actively give orders to starve a population they hold hostage, arrest them when they visit other countries.
If there are traitors in the US, violently trying to prevent the transition of power - hang them the next day for treason, not wait until the traitor in chief pardons them.
If there is a presidential candidate, that tells people to basicly kill his VP, so that nobody can sign the election result.. hang him. Not blueball the whole planet with a scam "legal system" that only buys time and time and time
If there are traitors trying to capture 3 politicians in Munich and declare themselves the new government of germany, you don't throw them in prision for a year and wait for them to come back, you hang them for treason.
If there is a mullah waving his finger around, wishing death to israel.. again.. you bomb them.
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If you kill everyone who wishes death to Israel you will wipe out half the population of Middle East.
The "they don't like us so we'll bomb them" shit is not really how international relations should be done, otherwise we'd all be at war all the time.
I love what Broetchenholer wrote, especially on the Iranian proxies. Yeah, they are all fucked up, yeah, they have bad intentions, however, Iran didn't create them, if anything Israel created them much more then Iran did, and now they are being used, when the 30 year old Nuclear fearmongering falls flat in order to justify everything Israel is doing.
In my opinion, the whole modern Iran toppling thing kicked off the 2020 year in a spectacular way, Trump decided to murder a military figure of a sovereign state in the airport of another sovereign state, on his way out, after pulling out of Iran deal because, it seemed clear to me, he wanted to start a war with Iran so he has an excuse for staying in power.
He tried to do that 3 days later, but first he attempted to start a war with Iran. Iran didn't respond, they notified US troops to move before they fired a response and the things fizzled out.
Now, he still wants to do it but I think his and Nethyanahu's timelines are not matching, he wanted to save a war with Iran for towards the end of his term so he can attempt to do this again, but Nethyanahu's almost out of cards to play so he needed to do it now.
None of this shit is justified, Iran was being dealt with up until 2018., they were tame in their responses to Gaza, to Hezbolah incursions, to bombing of Syria, they did their own thing, they re-entered negotiations with the US, but the authoritarians in US and Israel need them, so they are getting fucked.
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On June 20 2025 18:38 Jankisa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +If you kill everyone who wishes death to Israel you will wipe out half the population of Middle East. The "they don't like us so we'll bomb them" shit is not really how international relations should be done, otherwise we'd all be at war all the time. + Show Spoiler +I love what Broetchenholer wrote, especially on the Iranian proxies. Yeah, they are all fucked up, yeah, they have bad intentions, however, Iran didn't create them, if anything Israel created them much more then Iran did, and now they are being used, when the 30 year old Nuclear fearmongering falls flat in order to justify everything Israel is doing.
In my opinion, the whole modern Iran toppling thing kicked off the 2020 year in a spectacular way, Trump decided to murder a military figure of a sovereign state in the airport of another sovereign state, on his way out, after pulling out of Iran deal because, it seemed clear to me, he wanted to start a war with Iran so he has an excuse for staying in power.
He tried to do that 3 days later, but first he attempted to start a war with Iran. Iran didn't respond, they notified US troops to move before they fired a response and the things fizzled out.
Now, he still wants to do it but I think his and Nethyanahu's timelines are not matching, he wanted to save a war with Iran for towards the end of his term so he can attempt to do this again, but Nethyanahu's almost out of cards to play so he needed to do it now.
None of this shit is justified, Iran was being dealt with up until 2018., they were tame in their responses to Gaza, to Hezbolah incursions, to bombing of Syria, they did their own thing, they re-entered negotiations with the US, but the authoritarians in US and Israel need them, so they are getting fucked.
In fairness, it's pretty much how US foreign policy works and the US basically is.
By one count, the United States has been at war at some time in 93.5 percent of the calendar years between 1775 and 2018 www.smithsonianmag.com
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It's not "I don't like them"
It's "I totally would kill them if I get the chance, and I will teach my kids nothing but hate based on race".
But yes, leaving the middle east to Donald Trump's wisdom and the firepower of the US Military wasn't a great move by the international community.
Where the fuck was Denmark, when the Westfold fell?
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So here are my 2 cents and I want to be clear from the beginning: I’m a Zionist, in the sense that I believe Israel has the right to exist, defend itself, and flourish. The way it was created was deeply flawed, but that was over 70 years ago, and trying to undo it now would only lead to an even greater catastrophe/Nakba. That part of history is not changeable, and there’s no path forward through denial. I also disagree with many policies, on some Israeli stances on Palestinian statehood and as an Agnostic I don't have any fond feelings towards their religion.
While I can sympathize with broetchenholder’s frustration, I disagree with the tone, the exaggerations, and some of the underlying assumptions (yeah I know, stylistic tone etc  ).
I don’t think it’s helpful to argue about whether this or that minister said something outrageous, or whether hospital strikes automatically imply genocidal intent, especially with the well known circumstances. We all know the responses by now - Hamas uses human shields/hides inside public institutions, the extremist ministers are a minority, Israel investigates strikes, etc. These arguments have been recycled so many times that they no longer move the conversation forward. They just pull everyone into a moral stalemate.
What matters to me is the broader picture. This particular war wasn’t started by Israel. It was initiated - deliberately and brutally - by Hamas in an attack driven by religious fundamentalism and genocidal ideology. That was not a cry for liberation, it was a campaign of mass murder. If the jihadist agenda ended tomorrow, we would be facing the best possible outlook for peace. That peace should include justice… yes, including investigations into Israeli war conduct, reparations for civilians, and truth. But none of that can begin while one side is openly committed to the annihilation of the other. To me, that is the most important piece of the puzzle.
And: We see that reconciliation is possible with other Muslim countries that have been at war with Israel before as well.
Further: Even if the Palestinians had been offered compensation or statehood more generously in the past, I believe some of these actors would have started and continued the war anyway. Not because of injustice, but because their worldview does not accept Jews living in the land at all. That is not a political position, it's a theological one, as I pointed out several times already. And I can’t look away from that reality just because it's uncomfortable or some of you rightfully point out the injustice and unfairness, suffering and pain of the Palestinians.
At the same time, I won’t pretend that Israel has handled its position of power wisely. Again and again, it had the opportunity to de-escalate, to invest in hope, and to undercut the appeal of extremism. But too often, it chose security through dominance, or political short-termism, or worse: appeasement of its own hardliners as right now as well. I don’t excuse Hamas’s atrocities, but I do believe that some of the soil in which those atrocities grow was watered by Israeli choices.
Similar to broetchenholder, I have real sympathy for the Israeli people, especially those who never chose this path, who just want to live safely, who fear missiles falling on their children. Who feel abandoned by the world, seeing the whole West protesting against their governments or waving the Palestinian flag, after an atrocity that in relative magnitude is equivalent to 10 times the death count of 9/11 and 7k hostages. But I also have real sympathy for the Palestinian people, who live under both theocratic oppression and an Israeli military campaign, who’ve lost homes, futures, and at times insane amounts of family members, and who are told by every power involved that their lives are a secondary concern.
As most of you have probably figured by now: I don’t believe that terms like genocide, starvation, or apartheid (this one definitely fits some areas like the systemic division for land and home retrieval) - at least in most of the ways they’re being used - are legally or morally accurate in describing what is happening in Gaza. I understand the impulse to use powerful language in response to undeniable suffering, but in my view, these terms distort more than they clarify. The facts, as I see them, show that food has been entering Gaza, that Hamas continues to use its own population as human shields and hostages, and that they have warehouses full of supplies. There are credible reports of Hamas beating, torturing, and executing Palestinians who try to access that aid. Once again, the blame for that falls primarily on Hamas.
At the same time, I don’t support Israel’s collective punishment of the entire population of Gaza in form of food or aid blockades. I believe some of the military tactics used have without doubt crossed moral lines and should not be repeated. But it is my inner sense - based on everything I’ve seen and read - that the intent behind this campaign is to destroy Hamas, not to starve or exterminate a people (And perhaps, I am too naive and wrong… and I truly dread the day - if it comes - where internal documents proving genocide are leaked). War crimes have been committed, as they have been in every war, but these are not representative as statistics show. Overall Israel’s presumed intent - as I see it - doesn’t justify everything, but it does matter as context.
None of this is clean. None of it is easy. I believe in Israel’s right to exist, and in its duty to defend itself. I also believe that with power comes the responsibility to be better - more restrained, more humane, more just. As WombaT perfectly pointed out in his argument about logic consistency: Israel is the democracy. And that means it has the capacity - and the obligation - to choose a different path.
I won’t go too deep into Iran as most of what I read aligns with my understanding.
Fuck that regime and be scared of the ensuing power vacuum, if it falls.
Without ground troops and a direct invasion, the bomb won’t be terminated but only delayed. Will Iran use it against Israel? I’d say unlikely and it will most likely be in place to repress the population without external interference (aka North Korea) which is worse enough.
Summed up: I’m not asking anyone to pretend that one side is innocent. I’m asking that we stop pretending this is simple in language, exaggerations or arguments. Because it hasn’t been simple from the start.
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I feel like our positions are not compatible. Because on one hand you say the same things I do, Hamas bad, Iran bad, Israel bad, you always follow it up with but Israel is excused of that though. Ultimately you always present them with carde blanche. Boone can ever cheque your disapproval of Israel but Israel can always come back to loan money from you. Just like every western government...
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I simply agreed with some of your takes, not all of them.
Further, I call for justice in case of war crimes or crimes in general committed by Israeli officials or soldiers.
I say that Israel has crossed lines but the underlying intent and context are important. Thus I don't see how I give Israel a carde blanche.
And I say that religious fundamentalism or the denial of Israel's existence - to me at least - is not plausible context or a good excuse. Being denied the right to exist or being the target of clear genocidal atrocities should not warrant a carde blanche... but it is context which can explain excessive force - and should still be punished - wouldn't you agree?
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EPT
