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On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:28 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:12 Mohdoo wrote:
But I don't think Israel or the US need to be even slightly involved in anything that comes after their military and nuclear programs being poofed away This is good because the US and Israel will ask for your opinion before they decide what should come after What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object.
When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe
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On June 19 2025 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:30 GreenHorizons wrote:I was going to mention how the libs/Dems/ilk that abandoned the "you break it, you bought it" reasoning after Libya is making it easier for ostensibly left people to support further destabilizing the region while Netanyahu basically arms ISIS. Former Israeli Defense Minister and opposition lawmaker Avigdor Liberman on Thursday accused Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of authorizing weapons transfers to a criminal gang in Gaza that he likened to the ISIS terrorist group. Netanyahu appeared later in the day to confirm the operation, suggesting it would save the lives of Israeli forces battling Hamas in the Palestinian territory.
"They are receiving weapons from the state of Israel. It's a total madness," Liberman said in a radio interview. "It's unclear to me who approved it."
Liberman said the head of Israel's primary domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet was aware of the weapons transfers, "but I'm not sure the [Israel Defense Forces] knows. We're talking about the equivalent of ISIS in Gaza. No one can guarantee that these weapons will not be directed at Israel. We have no way of monitoring or following." www.cbsnews.comBut Mohdoo's comment couldn't really be much more demonstrative of this. yeah i don't see it like an antique store. Just toss the IRGC and their mountains into a dumpster and move on I think this is part of why a rising China is so terrifying to Westerners. Westerners are fucked if anyone is ever more powerful than them and disregards/treats them even half as bad as they treat others.
no one is afraid of china because NK shows it doesn't matter how strong your enemy is so long as you can cause untenable damage on the way out. That's the whole reason to kill Iran's nukes, to preserve power. Iran being an actual seat at the table just takes money away from the other oligarchs so here we are.
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On June 19 2025 02:53 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 19 2025 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:30 GreenHorizons wrote:I was going to mention how the libs/Dems/ilk that abandoned the "you break it, you bought it" reasoning after Libya is making it easier for ostensibly left people to support further destabilizing the region while Netanyahu basically arms ISIS. Former Israeli Defense Minister and opposition lawmaker Avigdor Liberman on Thursday accused Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of authorizing weapons transfers to a criminal gang in Gaza that he likened to the ISIS terrorist group. Netanyahu appeared later in the day to confirm the operation, suggesting it would save the lives of Israeli forces battling Hamas in the Palestinian territory.
"They are receiving weapons from the state of Israel. It's a total madness," Liberman said in a radio interview. "It's unclear to me who approved it."
Liberman said the head of Israel's primary domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet was aware of the weapons transfers, "but I'm not sure the [Israel Defense Forces] knows. We're talking about the equivalent of ISIS in Gaza. No one can guarantee that these weapons will not be directed at Israel. We have no way of monitoring or following." www.cbsnews.comBut Mohdoo's comment couldn't really be much more demonstrative of this. yeah i don't see it like an antique store. Just toss the IRGC and their mountains into a dumpster and move on I think this is part of why a rising China is so terrifying to Westerners. Westerners are fucked if anyone is ever more powerful than them and disregards/treats them even half as bad as they treat others. no one is afraid of china because NK shows it doesn't matter how strong your enemy is so long as you can cause untenable damage on the way out. That's the whole reason to kill Iran's nukes, to preserve power. Iran being an actual seat at the table just takes money away from the other oligarchs so here we are.
The US (and West generally, with Europe unsure what to do) is obviously terrified by the rise of China and considers it the greatest threat to their hegemony. This isn't really even disputable. Could probably use a less charged word than "terrified", but yeah...
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On June 19 2025 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:30 GreenHorizons wrote:I was going to mention how the libs/Dems/ilk that abandoned the "you break it, you bought it" reasoning after Libya is making it easier for ostensibly left people to support further destabilizing the region while Netanyahu basically arms ISIS. Former Israeli Defense Minister and opposition lawmaker Avigdor Liberman on Thursday accused Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of authorizing weapons transfers to a criminal gang in Gaza that he likened to the ISIS terrorist group. Netanyahu appeared later in the day to confirm the operation, suggesting it would save the lives of Israeli forces battling Hamas in the Palestinian territory.
"They are receiving weapons from the state of Israel. It's a total madness," Liberman said in a radio interview. "It's unclear to me who approved it."
Liberman said the head of Israel's primary domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet was aware of the weapons transfers, "but I'm not sure the [Israel Defense Forces] knows. We're talking about the equivalent of ISIS in Gaza. No one can guarantee that these weapons will not be directed at Israel. We have no way of monitoring or following." www.cbsnews.comBut Mohdoo's comment couldn't really be much more demonstrative of this. yeah i don't see it like an antique store. Just toss the IRGC and their mountains into a dumpster and move on I think this is part of why a rising China is so terrifying to Westerners. Westerners are fucked if anyone is ever more powerful than them and disregards/treats them even half as bad as they treat others.
Honestly, it would not be surprising if there were a political movement in the future that thought that Africa and the Middle East would not survive or prosper as long as Western countries existed. Fear of outside aggressors is commonly viewed as a unifying force.
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On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:28 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:12 Mohdoo wrote:
But I don't think Israel or the US need to be even slightly involved in anything that comes after their military and nuclear programs being poofed away This is good because the US and Israel will ask for your opinion before they decide what should come after What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe
Why would Iranians care about me?
But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers.
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On June 19 2025 02:53 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 19 2025 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:30 GreenHorizons wrote:I was going to mention how the libs/Dems/ilk that abandoned the "you break it, you bought it" reasoning after Libya is making it easier for ostensibly left people to support further destabilizing the region while Netanyahu basically arms ISIS. Former Israeli Defense Minister and opposition lawmaker Avigdor Liberman on Thursday accused Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of authorizing weapons transfers to a criminal gang in Gaza that he likened to the ISIS terrorist group. Netanyahu appeared later in the day to confirm the operation, suggesting it would save the lives of Israeli forces battling Hamas in the Palestinian territory.
"They are receiving weapons from the state of Israel. It's a total madness," Liberman said in a radio interview. "It's unclear to me who approved it."
Liberman said the head of Israel's primary domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet was aware of the weapons transfers, "but I'm not sure the [Israel Defense Forces] knows. We're talking about the equivalent of ISIS in Gaza. No one can guarantee that these weapons will not be directed at Israel. We have no way of monitoring or following." www.cbsnews.comBut Mohdoo's comment couldn't really be much more demonstrative of this. yeah i don't see it like an antique store. Just toss the IRGC and their mountains into a dumpster and move on I think this is part of why a rising China is so terrifying to Westerners. Westerners are fucked if anyone is ever more powerful than them and disregards/treats them even half as bad as they treat others. no one is afraid of china because NK shows it doesn't matter how strong your enemy is so long as you can cause untenable damage on the way out. That's the whole reason to kill Iran's nukes, to preserve power. Iran being an actual seat at the table just takes money away from the other oligarchs so here we are.
It is strange how you weave between being a this is just the facts guy and then right into conspiracy land and back again xD
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On June 19 2025 03:07 Legan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 19 2025 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:30 GreenHorizons wrote:I was going to mention how the libs/Dems/ilk that abandoned the "you break it, you bought it" reasoning after Libya is making it easier for ostensibly left people to support further destabilizing the region while Netanyahu basically arms ISIS. Former Israeli Defense Minister and opposition lawmaker Avigdor Liberman on Thursday accused Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of authorizing weapons transfers to a criminal gang in Gaza that he likened to the ISIS terrorist group. Netanyahu appeared later in the day to confirm the operation, suggesting it would save the lives of Israeli forces battling Hamas in the Palestinian territory.
"They are receiving weapons from the state of Israel. It's a total madness," Liberman said in a radio interview. "It's unclear to me who approved it."
Liberman said the head of Israel's primary domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet was aware of the weapons transfers, "but I'm not sure the [Israel Defense Forces] knows. We're talking about the equivalent of ISIS in Gaza. No one can guarantee that these weapons will not be directed at Israel. We have no way of monitoring or following." www.cbsnews.comBut Mohdoo's comment couldn't really be much more demonstrative of this. yeah i don't see it like an antique store. Just toss the IRGC and their mountains into a dumpster and move on I think this is part of why a rising China is so terrifying to Westerners. Westerners are fucked if anyone is ever more powerful than them and disregards/treats them even half as bad as they treat others. Honestly, it would not be surprising if there were a political movement in the future that thought that Africa and the Middle East would not survive or prosper as long as Western countries existed. Fear of outside aggressors is commonly viewed as a unifying force.
Africa is going to go after Russia and China. The west is just a small player there now. Middle East might look at how Turkey is doing and thinks, that is better than what we have now.
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On June 19 2025 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:53 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 19 2025 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:30 GreenHorizons wrote:I was going to mention how the libs/Dems/ilk that abandoned the "you break it, you bought it" reasoning after Libya is making it easier for ostensibly left people to support further destabilizing the region while Netanyahu basically arms ISIS. Former Israeli Defense Minister and opposition lawmaker Avigdor Liberman on Thursday accused Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of authorizing weapons transfers to a criminal gang in Gaza that he likened to the ISIS terrorist group. Netanyahu appeared later in the day to confirm the operation, suggesting it would save the lives of Israeli forces battling Hamas in the Palestinian territory.
"They are receiving weapons from the state of Israel. It's a total madness," Liberman said in a radio interview. "It's unclear to me who approved it."
Liberman said the head of Israel's primary domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet was aware of the weapons transfers, "but I'm not sure the [Israel Defense Forces] knows. We're talking about the equivalent of ISIS in Gaza. No one can guarantee that these weapons will not be directed at Israel. We have no way of monitoring or following." www.cbsnews.comBut Mohdoo's comment couldn't really be much more demonstrative of this. yeah i don't see it like an antique store. Just toss the IRGC and their mountains into a dumpster and move on I think this is part of why a rising China is so terrifying to Westerners. Westerners are fucked if anyone is ever more powerful than them and disregards/treats them even half as bad as they treat others. no one is afraid of china because NK shows it doesn't matter how strong your enemy is so long as you can cause untenable damage on the way out. That's the whole reason to kill Iran's nukes, to preserve power. Iran being an actual seat at the table just takes money away from the other oligarchs so here we are. The US (and West generally, with Europe unsure what to do) is obviously terrified by the rise of China and considers it the greatest threat to their hegemony. This isn't really even disputable. Could probably use a less charged word than "terrified", but yeah...
The oligarchs hate it, but nuclear powers don't suffer from imperialism or cultural erasure. That's only for the non-nuclear folks, which is why Iran wants the nuke to begin with.
I don't mind China's oligarchs winning against US oligarchs, Life would remain fairly similar either way so long as I remain in nuke-protected territory
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On June 19 2025 03:10 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:53 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 19 2025 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:On June 19 2025 02:30 GreenHorizons wrote:I was going to mention how the libs/Dems/ilk that abandoned the "you break it, you bought it" reasoning after Libya is making it easier for ostensibly left people to support further destabilizing the region while Netanyahu basically arms ISIS. Former Israeli Defense Minister and opposition lawmaker Avigdor Liberman on Thursday accused Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of authorizing weapons transfers to a criminal gang in Gaza that he likened to the ISIS terrorist group. Netanyahu appeared later in the day to confirm the operation, suggesting it would save the lives of Israeli forces battling Hamas in the Palestinian territory.
"They are receiving weapons from the state of Israel. It's a total madness," Liberman said in a radio interview. "It's unclear to me who approved it."
Liberman said the head of Israel's primary domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet was aware of the weapons transfers, "but I'm not sure the [Israel Defense Forces] knows. We're talking about the equivalent of ISIS in Gaza. No one can guarantee that these weapons will not be directed at Israel. We have no way of monitoring or following." www.cbsnews.comBut Mohdoo's comment couldn't really be much more demonstrative of this. yeah i don't see it like an antique store. Just toss the IRGC and their mountains into a dumpster and move on I think this is part of why a rising China is so terrifying to Westerners. Westerners are fucked if anyone is ever more powerful than them and disregards/treats them even half as bad as they treat others. no one is afraid of china because NK shows it doesn't matter how strong your enemy is so long as you can cause untenable damage on the way out. That's the whole reason to kill Iran's nukes, to preserve power. Iran being an actual seat at the table just takes money away from the other oligarchs so here we are. It is strange how you weave between being a this is just the facts guy and then right into conspiracy land and back again xD
I'm being cheeky, because I of course understand there are many reasons for this conflict. But I do think its genuinely true Western oligarchs purely suffer from Iran getting a nuke
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On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:28 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:12 Mohdoo wrote:
But I don't think Israel or the US need to be even slightly involved in anything that comes after their military and nuclear programs being poofed away This is good because the US and Israel will ask for your opinion before they decide what should come after What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers.
Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US.
All of this is extremely obvious.
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On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:28 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:12 Mohdoo wrote:
But I don't think Israel or the US need to be even slightly involved in anything that comes after their military and nuclear programs being poofed away This is good because the US and Israel will ask for your opinion before they decide what should come after What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious.
I think I read that book.
I didn't want to, my history teacher made me.
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On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:28 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:12 Mohdoo wrote:
But I don't think Israel or the US need to be even slightly involved in anything that comes after their military and nuclear programs being poofed away This is good because the US and Israel will ask for your opinion before they decide what should come after What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious.
You think the Iranians currently have agency? Are you aware that people don't like to be constantly repressed and having their human rights trampled on by there own government? Women strangely enough like to be treated like humans not property and LGBT people enjoy living.
If Khamenei falls there will be plenty of Iranians celebrating.
Also, I'm sorry that you do not like your views challenged, but can you stop with the constant childish insults. Can't you go to R/tankies or whatever if you want to live in a safe bubble where everyone just agrees with the assumptions you use ignoring facts you don't like?
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On June 19 2025 03:15 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:28 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
This is good because the US and Israel will ask for your opinion before they decide what should come after What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious. I think I read that book. I didn't want to, my history teacher made me.
Wait until you get to the sequel where they provide the rest of the information and history. hearing all the sides is going to blow your mind!
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On June 19 2025 03:32 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious. I think I read that book. I didn't want to, my history teacher made me. Wait until you get to the sequel where they provide the rest of the information and history. hearing all the sides is going to blow your mind!
The point I'm making is I don't think the US and Israel are going to be able to help themselves when the crucial moment arrives.
Getting rid of the current leaders in Iran is something I can go along with, if it can be done without wrecking the place ala Iraq.
What happens then is something no Western country has ever managed to make a success of.
I mean Iran has resources, right? Wouldn't it be so simple for the US to put someone in charge who was generous with their dealmaking when it comes to Iran's resources?
Then you end up with the exact situation that started all of this in the first place. Iranians aren't stupid. If the US takes advantage (again) they will revolt (again) and get rid of the leader the US put in place (again) and we'll end up with religious extremists in charge (again).
I hope you can see where I'm going with this, because I'm not being subtle about it.
I certainly don't think Netenyahu and Donald fucking Trump are going to sit down and have a conversation about what would be best for the Iranian people, do you?
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On June 19 2025 03:38 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:32 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 03:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious. I think I read that book. I didn't want to, my history teacher made me. Wait until you get to the sequel where they provide the rest of the information and history. hearing all the sides is going to blow your mind! The point I'm making is I don't think the US and Israel are going to be able to help themselves when the crucial moment arrives. Getting rid of the current leaders in Iran is something I can go along with, if it can be done without wrecking the place ala Iraq. What happens then is something no Western country has ever managed to make a success of. I mean Iran has resources, right? Wouldn't it be so simple for the US to put someone in charge who was generous with their dealmaking when it comes to Iran's resources? Then you end up with the exact situation that started all of this in the first place. Iranians aren't stupid. If the US takes advantage (again) they will revolt (again) and get rid of the leader the US put in place (again) and we'll end up with religious extremists in charge (again). I hope you can see where I'm going with this, because I'm not being subtle about it. I certainly don't think Netenyahu and Donald fucking Trump are going to sit down and have a conversation about what would be best for the Iranian people, do you?
Where did you get the impression that I thought that the US was great at nation building and this was going to be a great success?
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If bombing the regime away is successful, then in which other cases could this be implemented? Could it work on the Taliban? Maybe Eritrea? Even Hungary? Only nukes seem to protect countries from this.
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On June 19 2025 03:41 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:38 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 19 2025 03:32 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 03:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious. I think I read that book. I didn't want to, my history teacher made me. Wait until you get to the sequel where they provide the rest of the information and history. hearing all the sides is going to blow your mind! The point I'm making is I don't think the US and Israel are going to be able to help themselves when the crucial moment arrives. Getting rid of the current leaders in Iran is something I can go along with, if it can be done without wrecking the place ala Iraq. What happens then is something no Western country has ever managed to make a success of. I mean Iran has resources, right? Wouldn't it be so simple for the US to put someone in charge who was generous with their dealmaking when it comes to Iran's resources? Then you end up with the exact situation that started all of this in the first place. Iranians aren't stupid. If the US takes advantage (again) they will revolt (again) and get rid of the leader the US put in place (again) and we'll end up with religious extremists in charge (again). I hope you can see where I'm going with this, because I'm not being subtle about it. I certainly don't think Netenyahu and Donald fucking Trump are going to sit down and have a conversation about what would be best for the Iranian people, do you? Where did you get the impression that I thought that the US was great at nation building and this was going to be a great success?
I'll be honest I've just been skimming and I sort of got that feeling.
Sorry if I'm wrong.
Could you explain very simply what you are thinking about the current operation in Iran, whether its necessary, and if you have any thoughts about what any follow up should be?
You don't have to, but it would help me out because I can't be arsed to trawl through all the bad tempered personal battle stuff.
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On June 19 2025 03:30 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:28 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
This is good because the US and Israel will ask for your opinion before they decide what should come after What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious. You think the Iranians currently have agency? Are you aware that people don't like to be constantly repressed and having their human rights trampled on by there own government? Women strangely enough like to be treated like humans not property and LGBT people enjoy living. If Khamenei falls there will be plenty of Iranians celebrating.
So just to be clear, you think Iranians will celebrate moving from no agency to no agency (+ a bunch of dead people) because they don't have agency right now?
On June 19 2025 03:46 Legan wrote:
If bombing the regime away is successful, then in which other cases could this be implemented? Could it work on the Taliban? Maybe Eritrea? Even Hungary? Only nukes seem to protect countries from this.
Saudi Arabia I think
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On June 19 2025 01:40 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 00:58 pmp10 wrote:
Look at Bibi - he just got more Israelis killed than Hamas holds hostages and is now politically stronger then ever. Bibi is not strong at all. He's been far behind the opposition in polls since October 7 except for a little bump after the escalation against Hezbollah. The failure of October 7 will haunt his legacy forever no matter what he does. He's out with the next elections.
That's a brave prediction.
He still has a year to defeat Iran and crush Hamas.
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On June 19 2025 03:46 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:41 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 03:38 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 19 2025 03:32 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 03:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious. I think I read that book. I didn't want to, my history teacher made me. Wait until you get to the sequel where they provide the rest of the information and history. hearing all the sides is going to blow your mind! The point I'm making is I don't think the US and Israel are going to be able to help themselves when the crucial moment arrives. Getting rid of the current leaders in Iran is something I can go along with, if it can be done without wrecking the place ala Iraq. What happens then is something no Western country has ever managed to make a success of. I mean Iran has resources, right? Wouldn't it be so simple for the US to put someone in charge who was generous with their dealmaking when it comes to Iran's resources? Then you end up with the exact situation that started all of this in the first place. Iranians aren't stupid. If the US takes advantage (again) they will revolt (again) and get rid of the leader the US put in place (again) and we'll end up with religious extremists in charge (again). I hope you can see where I'm going with this, because I'm not being subtle about it. I certainly don't think Netenyahu and Donald fucking Trump are going to sit down and have a conversation about what would be best for the Iranian people, do you? Where did you get the impression that I thought that the US was great at nation building and this was going to be a great success? I'll be honest I've just been skimming and I sort of got that feeling. Sorry if I'm wrong. Could you explain very simply what you are thinking about the current operation in Iran, whether its necessary, and if you have any thoughts about what any follow up should be? You don't have to, but it would help me out because I can't be arsed to trawl through all the bad tempered personal battle stuff.
I do not really have a firm position, in fact I find it odd that people do considering how many moving parts there are. I think it is a very interesting, albeit mostly depressing topic, so it is nice to hear other peoples views on it.
Things I'm sure of is that Iran's government is full evil and so I shed no tears when members who have caused so much pain and suffering are dead.
I think Israel is not being "genocidal" when they attack Iran. Iran has been very open in both words and actions that their goal is complete genocide of Israel and Jews in general.
I believe that this along with say the pager attack, and taking the uninhabited mountain in Syria to stop arms flow to Hezbollah are reasonable military actions of a country trying to protect their citizens. That does not make it altruistic or anything, it has all the terrible consequences that come with war.
I do not believe Nebs theory that Israel is out to conquer the entire middle east and the "axis of resistance" is the only thing stopping them. My reasoning is their long history of trading land for peace.
I have very little faith in Iran being rebuilt into some kind of liberal or socialist democracy. I don't believe that has been successfully accomplished since WW2 through war.
I think a large percentage of the Iranian people will be hopeful for something better if their government falls, much like Syrians.
That is a off the top of my head overview. Let me know if I got to what you were after.
On June 19 2025 03:48 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:30 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 03:09 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:52 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:46 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:44 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:43 Billyboy wrote:On June 19 2025 02:39 Nebuchad wrote:On June 19 2025 02:38 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
What makes you so convinced that your domino theory is correct? Object permanence. What a fancy way of saying faith in their evil. That is actually not the definition of object permanence, you are wrong. It is how it is related to this statement, since what someone is going do is not an object. When Iran is a "pile of rubble" as Mohdoo indicated, do you believe that Iranians will also lick the sole of your shoe or do you think they'll only kiss the top of the shoe Why would Iranians care about me? But ya go to the personal insults when you can not answer with reason as usual. Hopefully you get a better sleep tonight or at least a snickers. Obviously, because Iranians are human beings, they're not going to appreciate being bombed by Israel and possibly the US, including a number of their relatives killed and the stability of their lives destroyed. So, if left to their own devices after this experience, they'll form governments that are hostile to Israel and the US. Israel and the US, being more intelligent than you and Mohdoo, understand that this is going to happen, so they won't let Iranians have agency in their future. They'll either have a fake democracy where every candidate has to publicly declare that Israel has a God given right to kill every Palestinian they want to, or they'll skip the democracy part and directly support some dictator who is pro US. All of this is extremely obvious. You think the Iranians currently have agency? Are you aware that people don't like to be constantly repressed and having their human rights trampled on by there own government? Women strangely enough like to be treated like humans not property and LGBT people enjoy living. If Khamenei falls there will be plenty of Iranians celebrating. So just to be clear, you think Iranians will celebrate moving from no agency to no agency (+ a bunch of dead people) because they don't have agency right now? Show nested quote +On June 19 2025 03:46 Legan wrote:
If bombing the regime away is successful, then in which other cases could this be implemented? Could it work on the Taliban? Maybe Eritrea? Even Hungary? Only nukes seem to protect countries from this. Saudi Arabia I think
I suspect they will celebrate the fall of a regime that likely has killed and or tortured members of their families and repressed them all for 50 years. Hopefully they have some optimism with what comes next but I'm sure a heck of a lot more cynicism and fear. Maybe they along with Syria will look for a new path forward, maybe Turkey will be better than the west. I have no idea what will come next, and am baffled that you have such faith in your own predictions.
That will change depending on how long the regime holds out and the war continues.
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EPT
